EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

General => Buy/Sell/Wanted => Topic started by: feeltech on July 23, 2019, 06:39:42 am

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 23, 2019, 06:39:42 am
Dear Customers,
Thank you very much for your support for FeelElec Products.
Our company has launched a new signal generator FY6900 in 2019.

The following is a detailed introduction of the new product.



Product Description:
    FY6900 series dual-channel function/arbitrary waveform generator is a high-performance, cost-effective and multi-functional signal generator which integrates functions of function signal generator, arbitrary waveform generator, pulse signal generator, noise generator, VCO, counter and frequency meter. The instrument uses large-scale FPGA integrated circuit and high-speed MCU microprocessor. The internal circuit uses high-precision active crystal oscillator as the reference, and the signal stability is high. Surface mounting technology greatly improves the anti-interference and service life of the instrument. The instrument has completely independent dual DDS signal and four TTL level output. It can generate 36 preset waveform signals such as sine wave, square wave, rectangular wave, triangular wave, sawtooth wave, pulse wave, white noise and 64 user-defined waveforms. This instrument achieves the perfect combination of easy-to-use, excellent technical indicators and many functional characteristics in signal generation, waveform scanning, parameter measurement and use. It can help users accomplish their tasks faster. It is an ideal test and measurement equipment for electronic engineers, electronic laboratories, production lines, teaching and scientific research.

    FY6900 series dual-channel function/arbitrary waveform generator has humanized keyboard layout and instructions, providing users with an intuitive operation interface. The display interface uses a 2.4 inch TFT color LCD screen with 320*240 high resolution. It can display all the parameters of the two channels at the same time and prompt the current button function. The shortcut key greatly simplifies the complex operation process and greatly enhances the operability of the instrument. Users can use the instrument skillfully without spending a lot of time to learn and familiarize themselves with the operation of the instrument.

Appearance:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/re-feelelec-new-arrival-fy-6900-signal-generator/?action=dlattach;attach=792333;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/re-feelelec-new-arrival-fy-6900-signal-generator/?action=dlattach;attach=792339;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/re-feelelec-new-arrival-fy-6900-signal-generator/?action=dlattach;attach=792345;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/re-feelelec-new-arrival-fy-6900-signal-generator/?action=dlattach;attach=792351;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/re-feelelec-new-arrival-fy-6900-signal-generator/?action=dlattach;attach=792357;image)

Technical Parameter:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/re-feelelec-new-arrival-fy-6900-signal-generator/?action=dlattach;attach=794970;image)


Purchase Link: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/FY6900-Series/5040093_516012542.html?spm=2114.12010615.pcShopHead_85220635.1_3 (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/group/FY6900-Series/5040093_516012542.html?spm=2114.12010615.pcShopHead_85220635.1_3)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: BravoV on July 23, 2019, 06:47:51 am
What ? No contest for free AWG ? Especially for the new released ones ?  C'mon ... :-//

Considering this forum alone has contributed alot to your business, imo.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: beanflying on July 23, 2019, 08:17:22 am
I wasn't going to but take this as critique on your on going poor behaviour to your current user base!

Your complete lack of support for the 6600 for those with failed units due to no fault of their own is PATHETIC!

Your abandonment of the 6800 after only months since release and likely non support going forward is Questionable at best!

Your renaming from company A to B is pointless as the shit from the already mentioned models has never been explained of supported by YOU and YOUR Company in any satisfactory manner.

LET THE POTENTIAL BUYERS BEWARE This company SUX until proven otherwise over time moving forward! :rant:
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: beanflying on July 23, 2019, 09:34:41 am
It is not ME you owe a PM to it is the others long ignored by your company. Unlike some mine has worked well for the price paid and I have no real complaints about my 6600 apart from the much talked about terrible power supply and other niggles.

What I do have a major problem with is the complete lack of morals you show asking the members of this forum to support you when you have not supported those who asked and were not!

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 23, 2019, 10:25:45 am
I wasn't going to but take this as critique on your on going poor behaviour to your current user base!

Your complete lack of support for the 6600 for those with failed units due to no fault of their own is PATHETIC!

Your abandonment of the 6800 after only months since release and likely non support going forward is Questionable at best!

Your renaming from company A to B is pointless as the shit from the already mentioned models has never been explained of supported by YOU and YOUR Company in any satisfactory manner.

LET THE POTENTIAL BUYERS BEWARE This company SUX until proven otherwise over time moving forward! :rant:


Thank you for your support and attention to our products! Our replies and commitments to your questions are as follows:

1. The company's previous sales and after-sales are the responsibility of the agents, which causes some customers' problems not to be feedback to us and thus not solved in time. As a manufacturer, we first apologize to you, so this situation will not exist after we open the official store of Aliexpress and eevblog account. Customer products can be directly fed back to us whenever they are purchased from any channel. Our company will actively solve the problem.
2. FY6900 is a new series of products, and its performance index is better than FY6800. FY6800 and FY6600 have no shutdown plans. We will continue to provide technical support and after-sales service to our customers.
3. About brand, FeelTech and FeelElec belong to our company, which can be reflected in the product boot screen.

If customers have Questions or suggestions about the product can be feedback to us, I believe that through our communication, we can make products and services better! Thank you again for your support for our products!
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: beanflying on July 23, 2019, 10:52:43 am
Your first attempt at interacting with this Forum is this Thread started by a mystery Member spruiking for you! You didn't even have the decency to start your own thread.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/)

Start at the beginning and read the content and try and repair why we should think kindly of you and not think you are PATHETIC in your companies behaviour!

You are the MANUFACTURER of the product and the failures start and end with you with your reseller being in the middle with generally zero technical skills or knowledge. Then to blame them for your poor product is worse than pathetic! Using them as sacrificial pawns is beyond pathetic.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 24, 2019, 01:39:29 am
Your first attempt at interacting with this Forum is this Thread started by a mystery Member spruiking for you! You didn't even have the decency to start your own thread.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/)

Start at the beginning and read the content and try and repair why we should think kindly of you and not think you are PATHETIC in your companies behaviour!

You are the MANUFACTURER of the product and the failures start and end with you with your reseller being in the middle with generally zero technical skills or knowledge. Then to blame them for your poor product is worse than pathetic! Using them as sacrificial pawns is beyond pathetic.


1. We hope you can give us detailed questions about the inferior quality of the products, and we can help you solve them. We would like to thank you very much for your suggestion. FeelElec wants to bring customers a better product experience.
2. FeelElec have never attributed the responsibility to the agent, the agent feedback to our company's problems, we will respond within 24 hours, and actively assist the agent to help customers solve problems.
3. From now on, there will be someone in charge of the forum account. We are willing to receive more feedback from customers and suggestions. We also have the ability to solve any problems in our products, provide better services for users, and develop more products that users like. Better help distributors sell our products!
4. Any questions about product quality or special functional requirements you may encounter before or after can contact us directly in eevblog.

After-Sale Email Address: service@feelelec.com

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Electro Fan on July 24, 2019, 02:19:51 am
Hello feeltech,

You will likely get a lot of questions and suggestions here.  The feedback from EEVblog forum members might seem challenging but if you can respond well it will help you sell more of your products and also develop new features, functions, and improved performance.

Your 6900 model looks promising but many of your best customers and best advocates and friends could be your 6600 and 6800 customers.  Your 6600 and 6800 customers took the risk to try your products and how you support them will influence the thinking of potential new customers.  This might be the most important thing.

Having said the above, I have two suggestions for you.

1. You should consider selling your products directly from you (and/or your distributors) with feeltech factory support on eBay for customers who prefer to buy on eBay.

2. You should consider adding a 10 MHz reference input to your products so that customers can improve clock performance with external GPSDOs.

Good luck.

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: bdunham7 on July 24, 2019, 02:59:10 am


1. We hope you can give us detailed questions about the inferior quality of the products, and we can help you solve them. We would like to thank you very much for your suggestion. FeelElec wants to bring customers a better product experience.
2. FeelElec have never attributed the responsibility to the agent, the agent feedback to our company's problems, we will respond within 24 hours, and actively assist the agent to help customers solve problems.
3. From now on, there will be someone in charge of the forum account. We are willing to receive more feedback from customers and suggestions. We also have the ability to solve any problems in our products, provide better services for users, and develop more products that users like. Better help distributors sell our products!
4. Any questions about product quality or special functional requirements you may encounter before or after can contact us directly in eevblog.

After-Sale Email Address: service@feelelec.com


So I have a few questions and ideas for you:

1.  Can you provide a reliable, navigable, usable english-language (and perhaps others since these are sold globally) web site that has downloads for the PC software that is included on the CD that comes with the unit?  A significant number of these CDs have been reported unreadable or even missing entirely.  If this already exists and I missed it, thanks and I apologize in advance.  If the software is different for the FY6600, FY6800 and FY6900, they each should have their own page.  And improving the software would be welcome too.

2.  Can you tell us what changes have been made in the FY6900 other than the case?  Specifically, some resellers are advertising a feature called "Magic Pulse", which supposedly eliminates jitter in certain square waves.  Is this a real thing?

3.  Are these things actually manufactured, boxed and shipping yet?

4.  Choose your resellers more carefully if they aren't representing you well.  Selling and supporting them yourself on Aliexpress, eBay and perhaps Amazon would be a good thing.   
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 24, 2019, 05:53:15 am
Hello feeltech,

You will likely get a lot of questions and suggestions here.  The feedback from EEVblog forum members might seem challenging but if you can respond well it will help you sell more of your products and also develop new features, functions, and improved performance.

Your 6900 model looks promising but many of your best customers and best advocates and friends could be your 6600 and 6800 customers.  Your 6600 and 6800 customers took the risk to try your products and how you support them will influence the thinking of potential new customers.  This might be the most important thing.

Having said the above, I have two suggestions for you.

1. You should consider selling your products directly from you (and/or your distributors) with feeltech factory support on eBay for customers who prefer to buy on eBay.

2. You should consider adding a 10 MHz reference input to your products so that customers can improve clock performance with external GPSDOs.

Good luck.


FY6900 is an upgraded product of FY6600 and FY6800. Customers can enjoy the technical support and after-sales service provided by our company at any time.

Thank you very much for your suggestion. The reply is as follows:
1. There are distributors selling our products on Ebay, and customers can buy them on Ebay. After-sales problems can be directly contacted with us, or feedback to us through distributors, we will solve after-sales problems for you.
2. FeelElec technicians will accept your suggestion and upgrade the product according to your suggestion.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 24, 2019, 08:18:00 am



So I have a few questions and ideas for you:

1.  Can you provide a reliable, navigable, usable english-language (and perhaps others since these are sold globally) web site that has downloads for the PC software that is included on the CD that comes with the unit?  A significant number of these CDs have been reported unreadable or even missing entirely.  If this already exists and I missed it, thanks and I apologize in advance.  If the software is different for the FY6600, FY6800 and FY6900, they each should have their own page.  And improving the software would be welcome too.

2.  Can you tell us what changes have been made in the FY6900 other than the case?  Specifically, some resellers are advertising a feature called "Magic Pulse", which supposedly eliminates jitter in certain square waves.  Is this a real thing?

3.  Are these things actually manufactured, boxed and shipping yet?

4.  Choose your resellers more carefully if they aren't representing you well.  Selling and supporting them yourself on Aliexpress, eBay and perhaps Amazon would be a good thing.   


Thank you very much for your feedback and suggestions. The replies are as follows:

1. This is our PC software download link: http://en.feeltech.net/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6&page=1 (http://en.feeltech.net/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6&page=1)   

2. The functional performance upgrade that distributors publicize really exists. Following are details of FY6900 upgrade:
- MagicPulse Technology,Low Jitter(RMS)<200ps
- More Than 100 Waveforms: 8192 points * 14bits
- 0~24Vpp Amplitude Range,Min Resolution 1mV
We will record and upload relevant test videos as soon as possible.

3. Perhaps we can’t understand the third article clearly. Would it be convenient for you to describe it in more detail?

4. Thank you for your suggestion. We will carefully screen distributors in the future.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: beanflying on July 24, 2019, 09:22:09 am
Your first attempt at interacting with this Forum is this Thread started by a mystery Member spruiking for you! You didn't even have the decency to start your own thread.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/)

Start at the beginning and read the content and try and repair why we should think kindly of you and not think you are PATHETIC in your companies behaviour!

You are the MANUFACTURER of the product and the failures start and end with you with your reseller being in the middle with generally zero technical skills or knowledge. Then to blame them for your poor product is worse than pathetic! Using them as sacrificial pawns is beyond pathetic.


1. We hope you can give us detailed questions about the inferior quality of the products, and we can help you solve them. We would like to thank you very much for your suggestion. FeelElec wants to bring customers a better product experience.
2. FeelElec have never attributed the responsibility to the agent, the agent feedback to our company's problems, we will respond within 24 hours, and actively assist the agent to help customers solve problems.
3. From now on, there will be someone in charge of the forum account. We are willing to receive more feedback from customers and suggestions. We also have the ability to solve any problems in our products, provide better services for users, and develop more products that users like. Better help distributors sell our products!
4. Any questions about product quality or special functional requirements you may encounter before or after can contact us directly in eevblog.

After-Sale Email Address: service@feelelec.com



Save your platitudes for someone gullible enough to believe them  :palm:

After 4+ YEARS YOU were still producing units with sub par power supplies and were no doubt very aware of that fact! 90V of floating supply is  :bullshit: So many other threads but I won't bother adding them all here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy3200-psu-upgrade/msg965575/#msg965575 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy3200-psu-upgrade/msg965575/#msg965575)

Completely inadequate and PATHETIC response to some of YOUR CUSTOMERS directly and or via resellers not being able to come together to resolve major failures of FY6600 units. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/reflashing-or-resetting-a-feeltech-fy6600-signal-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/reflashing-or-resetting-a-feeltech-fy6600-signal-generator/) In a similar manner I won't bother to list all examples but trust me they are MANY! Members of this Forum were left with non functioning  units. True some were resolved but most went unsolved!

And in the main FY6600 thread so many partial failures of displays or certain waveforms and yet no upgrade or remedy path to repair them!

Clearly you only want to waffle platitudes and Feelgood  :bullshit: about moving forward and have us whitewash you very grey past.

Until you face up to your past you don't deserve a free pass to your future.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 24, 2019, 11:07:22 am
Your first attempt at interacting with this Forum is this Thread started by a mystery Member spruiking for you! You didn't even have the decency to start your own thread.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/)

Start at the beginning and read the content and try and repair why we should think kindly of you and not think you are PATHETIC in your companies behaviour!

You are the MANUFACTURER of the product and the failures start and end with you with your reseller being in the middle with generally zero technical skills or knowledge. Then to blame them for your poor product is worse than pathetic! Using them as sacrificial pawns is beyond pathetic.


1. We hope you can give us detailed questions about the inferior quality of the products, and we can help you solve them. We would like to thank you very much for your suggestion. FeelElec wants to bring customers a better product experience.
2. FeelElec have never attributed the responsibility to the agent, the agent feedback to our company's problems, we will respond within 24 hours, and actively assist the agent to help customers solve problems.
3. From now on, there will be someone in charge of the forum account. We are willing to receive more feedback from customers and suggestions. We also have the ability to solve any problems in our products, provide better services for users, and develop more products that users like. Better help distributors sell our products!
4. Any questions about product quality or special functional requirements you may encounter before or after can contact us directly in eevblog.

After-Sale Email Address: service@feelelec.com



Save your platitudes for someone gullible enough to believe them  :palm:

After 4+ YEARS YOU were still producing units with sub par power supplies and were no doubt very aware of that fact! 90V of floating supply is  :bullshit: So many other threads but I won't bother adding them all here.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy3200-psu-upgrade/msg965575/#msg965575 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy3200-psu-upgrade/msg965575/#msg965575)

Completely inadequate and PATHETIC response to some of YOUR CUSTOMERS directly and or via resellers not being able to come together to resolve major failures of FY6600 units. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/reflashing-or-resetting-a-feeltech-fy6600-signal-generator/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/reflashing-or-resetting-a-feeltech-fy6600-signal-generator/) In a similar manner I won't bother to list all examples but trust me they are MANY! Members of this Forum were left with non functioning  units. True some were resolved but most went unsolved!

And in the main FY6600 thread so many partial failures of displays or certain waveforms and yet no upgrade or remedy path to repair them!

Clearly you only want to waffle platitudes and Feelgood  :bullshit: about moving forward and have us whitewash you very grey past.

Until you face up to your past you don't deserve a free pass to your future.


We dono’t want to cover up the problems existing in the previous products, just want to be able to better serve customers and solve customers'problems.
As for the FY6600 malfunction encountered by our customers, now contact us, we will still actively solve the problem for our customers.
service@feelelec.com
Regarding the power supply, the answers are as follows:
First of all, in the absence of the introduction of the ground wire of the two-wire plug of the switching power supply system will have such a situation.
In order to suppress common mode interference, the switching power supply in the design, the "Safety ceramic Cap" will be between the "LG / NG" (Safety Ceramic Cap is used for such occasions, even if the capacitor fails, will not lead to electric shock, so the secondary side of the switching power supply "ground" is equivalent to the midpoint of the AC voltage, so you measured 110V voltage. But this does not mean there will be security risks, after all, the capacitance capacity of only 1000pf.
If you are still worried about its leakage, then the correct way is to measure its DC leakage resistance, the use of insulation tester is the most effective way
And we responded in 2017 as well,
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/msg1297231/#msg1297231 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/msg1297231/#msg1297231)

The following figure is the official shooting of Apple Power Supply. You can see that the suspension voltage is 55V, which does not mean that the quality is problematic.
[attach=1]
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: bdunham7 on July 24, 2019, 05:13:18 pm


3. Perhaps we can’t understand the third article clearly. Would it be convenient for you to describe it in more detail?


Thank you for the link to the software.  Unfortunately, the link didn't work when I tried it just now.  Could you check on this?

As for question #3, I'm asking if the FY6900 has actually been delivered to your distributors yet.  Nobody seems to actually have any, although a lot of them claim to.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: chickenHeadKnob on July 24, 2019, 11:00:26 pm

As for question #3, I'm asking if the FY6900 has actually been delivered to your distributors yet.  Nobody seems to actually have any, although a lot of them claim to.

Yes they have been shipping, I got  mine from Banggood --> Kanadia about 10 day's ago. I verified it makes sine waves! and other stuff. I am so backed up with other problems right now I diddn't want to announce this as I know you guys are so hot and horny for inside pics and tests.
I was hoping someone else would take that burden. (embarrass icon here)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 25, 2019, 12:57:56 am
Thank you for the link to the software.  Unfortunately, the link didn't work when I tried it just now.  Could you check on this?

As for question #3, I'm asking if the FY6900 has actually been delivered to your distributors yet.  Nobody seems to actually have any, although a lot of them claim to.

1. We are very apologized to our website may have some problems. You can download files from Google Drive first. This is download link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3N_NW8vylrmWU93b0EwRjhrQlE (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3N_NW8vylrmWU93b0EwRjhrQlE) . We will update the website later and send you a link.
2. FY6900 has already started to sell. You can buy it from an agent or our Aliexpress store.

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: beanflying on July 25, 2019, 01:33:55 am

We dono’t want to cover up the problems existing in the previous products, just want to be able to better serve customers and solve customers'problems.
As for the FY6600 malfunction encountered by our customers, now contact us, we will still actively solve the problem for our customers.
service@feelelec.com
MAJOR BS
Regarding the power supply, the answers are as follows:
First of all, in the absence of the introduction of the ground wire of the two-wire plug of the switching power supply system will have such a situation.
In order to suppress common mode interference, the switching power supply in the design, the "Safety ceramic Cap" will be between the "LG / NG" (Safety Ceramic Cap is used for such occasions, even if the capacitor fails, will not lead to electric shock, so the secondary side of the switching power supply "ground" is equivalent to the midpoint of the AC voltage, so you measured 110V voltage. But this does not mean there will be security risks, after all, the capacitance capacity of only 1000pf.
If you are still worried about its leakage, then the correct way is to measure its DC leakage resistance, the use of insulation tester is the most effective way
And we responded in 2017 as well,
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/msg1297231/#msg1297231 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/feeltech-fy6600-60mhz-2-ch-vco-function-arbitrary-waveform-signal-generator/msg1297231/#msg1297231)

The following figure is the official shooting of Apple Power Supply. You can see that the suspension voltage is 55V, which does not mean that the quality is problematic.
(Attachment Link)

Compared with users like fremen67 that definitely deserves a free unit, not to mention many others, I did almost nothing except starting the the avalanche a bit.
I still think I deserve my 3.1 firmware unit replaced, along with all the other 3.0/3.1 firmware units.
You have only one threat practically to look into it, but  I have a feeling that will be probably the only Feeltech post, or one of the very few, same like this "Amy" person that started the other thread.
And yes, would have been nice to actually answer my emails, sent long ago.

 Good luck to the winners, personally I will not give my private information for 100EUR, but some others maybe will do it.

 DC1MC

FeelTech, here's a link to fremen67 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=94067)'s profile, for convenience. You can PM him (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/pm/?sa=send;u=94067) a message. ;)

You simply FAIL to comprehend your past. About the only way forward to start to remedy this is release the firmware for the FY6600 and the method to repair damaged units. Either that or consider sending 'review samples of your new one to those affected that have dead units. Return shipping and freighting units is just not on unless YOU are paying for postage both ways.

Both of the member quotes above were from your most recent spruiking of the 6800. And surprise surprise went unanswered.
This Link https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/feeltech-fy6800-signal-generator-free-trial/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/feeltech-fy6800-signal-generator-free-trial/)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 25, 2019, 03:57:00 am
You simply FAIL to comprehend your past. About the only way forward to start to remedy this is release the firmware for the FY6600 and the method to repair damaged units. Either that or consider sending 'review samples of your new one to those affected that have dead units. Return shipping and freighting units is just not on unless YOU are paying for postage both ways.

Both of the member quotes above were from your most recent spruiking of the 6800. And surprise surprise went unanswered.
This Link https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/feeltech-fy6800-signal-generator-free-trial/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/contests/feeltech-fy6800-signal-generator-free-trial/)

We have no staff to take charge of this forum account before. We have not landed in this forum for a long time. We apologize for the vacancy in our work. At the same time, we will compensate the damaged customers. From now on, our account is in the charge of a special person, we will maintain the forum. Customers who have purchased version FY6600 V3.0 before will send the firmware chip downloaded version V3.1 free of charge as long as they contact us. At the same time, if these customers intend to purchase FY6900 series products, our company will return all the profits of the machine to customers, charging only the cost of equipment and transportation costs. Please contact us in EVVblog or Email.

Email address: service@feelelec.com

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: wasyoungonce on July 25, 2019, 06:18:32 am
Given all this ( yes I read the whole fy6600 thread) guess I’ll keep saving for something that has product support.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on July 25, 2019, 06:27:14 am
Given all this ( yes I read the whole fy6600 thread) guess I’ll keep saving for something that has product support.

Thanks for your reply and hope you can still support our product. And if you have any suggestions or questions, please contact us any time. ;)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on July 26, 2019, 01:11:05 am
Thank you for the link to the software.  Unfortunately, the link didn't work when I tried it just now.  Could you check on this?

Have a nice day, our website have already to works well. This is the link http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6. (http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6.)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Jacon on July 26, 2019, 06:15:30 am
Thank you for the link to the software.  Unfortunately, the link didn't work when I tried it just now.  Could you check on this?
Have a nice day, our website have already to works well. This is the link http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6. (http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6.)
Really ?!?
This is all what I get there:
模板不存在:/www/wwwroot/en.feeltech.net/template/default_html5/message/error.html  :palm:

My advice:  Flowing us with streams of words is counterproductive, believe me.
So, less writing, more reading, thinking. & checking...
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on July 26, 2019, 06:54:31 am
Really ?!?
This is all what I get there:
模板不存在:/www/wwwroot/en.feeltech.net/template/default_html5/message/error.html  :palm:

My advice:  Flowing us with streams of words is counterproductive, believe me.
So, less writing, more reading, thinking. & checking...

We are very sorry about it. It's amazing that we can open the link.
Can you help us one thing? Please check the http://en.feelelec.com/ (http://en.feelelec.com/) or search en.feelelec.com can be opened?

Thanks for your suggestion.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: PA0PBZ on July 26, 2019, 07:00:38 am
Remove the dot (.) after the 6 and it works: http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6 (http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6)
However, I do not see software.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on July 26, 2019, 07:04:33 am
Really ?!?
This is all what I get there:
模板不存在:/www/wwwroot/en.feeltech.net/template/default_html5/message/error.html  :palm:

My advice:  Flowing us with streams of words is counterproductive, believe me.
So, less writing, more reading, thinking. & checking...

Dear Customers,
I'm very apologized to I added an extra point after the link. 
This is my fault, sorry again.

From a mistaken employee。 |O
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: coromonadalix on July 26, 2019, 07:10:09 am
http://en.feelelec.com/ (http://en.feelelec.com/)    tons of chineeses  images links


This following description needs to be reworked, its incomplete and not professional at all

"FEELTECH is a professional industrial grade color LCD module and signal generator industrial product development, production, sales and technical services in one high-tech enterprises.Since its incept… "

incept  what ??

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"14bitx8192"  ??           "High cost"  tag image  ??   

Seriously    do a proper job in your adds, you dont understand the meaning of your writings  ....  your generators are not industrial grade at all.   They are hobbyist grade.  If they were, the schematics would at least be available under an non disclosure agreement, and parts should be orderable.


I see things like this ......       i'll never buy from you ???


The "see more" links  doesnt work

http://en.feeltech.net/html/Signal%20generator/show_16.html (http://en.feeltech.net/html/Signal%20generator/show_16.html)              404 error
http://en.feeltech.net/html/Signal%20generator/show_17.html (http://en.feeltech.net/html/Signal%20generator/show_17.html)              404 error


Dont want to be rude,  take your web site offline an redo your work, you're trying to be correct and your doing more harm to your "image (company name)"
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: PA0PBZ on July 26, 2019, 07:16:10 am
I'm very apologized to I added an extra point after the link. 

ALWAYS click the preview button and check if you post a link!
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on July 26, 2019, 07:20:45 am
Remove the dot (.) after the 6 and it works: http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6 (http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6)
However, I do not see software.

Thank you, dear customers.
When you open the link, such as the 6800, you need to click the download the FY6800 User Guide. This user guide include the PC software.

If you also can't seen it, please feel free to contact us.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on July 26, 2019, 07:40:21 am
ALWAYS click the preview button and check if you post a link!

Ok, I will always click the preview button and check it after I reply customers.
Thank you very much.

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on July 26, 2019, 07:56:00 am
http://en.feelelec.com/ (http://en.feelelec.com/)    tons of chineeses  images links


This following description needs to be reworked, its incomplete and not professional at all

"FEELTECH is a professional industrial grade color LCD module and signal generator industrial product development, production, sales and technical services in one high-tech enterprises.Since its incept… "

incept  what ??

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"14bitx8192"  ??           "High cost"  tag image  ??   

Seriously    do a proper job in your adds, you dont understand the meaning of your writings  ....  your generators are not industrial grade at all.   They are hobbyist grade.  If they were, the schematics would at least be available under an non disclosure agreement, and parts should be orderable.


I see things like this ......       i'll never buy from you ???


The "see more" links  doesnt work

http://en.feeltech.net/html/Signal%20generator/show_16.html (http://en.feeltech.net/html/Signal%20generator/show_16.html)              404 error
http://en.feeltech.net/html/Signal%20generator/show_17.html (http://en.feeltech.net/html/Signal%20generator/show_17.html)              404 error


Dont want to be rude,  take your web site offline an redo your work, you're trying to be correct and your doing more harm to your "image (company name)"

Thanks for your suggestion, we will redo our English website.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: coromonadalix on July 26, 2019, 08:41:28 am
I'm native French  i could help with translation ??

When i go on Aliexpress, Bangood and others, i see tons of badly translated English or pseudo French descriptions, very annoying,   horribly used technical terms ...

I'm not perfect myself  loll  since i dont always catch English terms lol.


Like your description, it need a little re-doing

You see the "enter" tags after the texts ...  you need an good looking descrition sheet,  looks are important, we rely a lot on theses specs ...

keep the models infos/models width the same among all models ...

The display size  2.42.4   is wrong, i think you meant 2,4  inch  wide ??

Interface is not 115200, its serial, usb, lan (network), gpib, wi-fi, bluetooth  ...

Baud rate in serial port is : 115200   thats an huge difference

We have to decode what you mean ... with all the errors in the description


All small details are important, it define  how much you want to show your product, and describe it correctly,

Future buyers want to know or have the user manuals properly translated, software if any included or a link to download it ... acessories if any included ...  if you use some serial (scpi) protocols, have them properly defined and show examples how to do it .....  firmwares updates  if any and how to do it  ....
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 26, 2019, 10:34:21 am
I'm native French  i could help with translation ??

When i go on Aliexpress, Bangood and others, i see tons of badly translated English or pseudo French descriptions, very annoying,   horribly used technical terms ...

I'm not perfect myself  loll  since i dont always catch English terms lol.


Like your description, it need a little re-doing

You see the "enter" tags after the texts ...  you need an good looking descrition sheet,  looks are important, we rely a lot on theses specs ...

keep the models infos/models width the same among all models ...

The display size  2.42.4   is wrong, i think you meant 2,4  inch  wide ??

Interface is not 115200, its serial, usb, lan (network), gpib, wi-fi, bluetooth  ...

Baud rate in serial port is : 115200   thats an huge difference

We have to decode what you mean ... with all the errors in the description


All small details are important, it define  how much you want to show your product, and describe it correctly,

Future buyers want to know or have the user manuals properly translated, software if any included or a link to download it ... acessories if any included ...  if you use some serial (scpi) protocols, have them properly defined and show examples how to do it .....  firmwares updates  if any and how to do it  ....

Thanks for your suggestion, we have already post the new specification chart according to your request.We could provide more accurate descriptions in English in the future.
Hope you can still give us suggestions about the chart or another aspect.
We will record the operation video so that customers can see how the product works more intuitively. Then we plan build an independent English website to better serve global customers.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Brumby on July 26, 2019, 01:59:52 pm
Feeltech - it seems you are genuinely trying to address a number of issues.  This is a good thing.

The road ahead will be difficult.  I wish you well.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 26, 2019, 07:48:17 pm

As for question #3, I'm asking if the FY6900 has actually been delivered to your distributors yet.  Nobody seems to actually have any, although a lot of them claim to.

Yes they have been shipping, I got  mine from Banggood --> Kanadia about 10 day's ago. I verified it makes sine waves! and other stuff. I am so backed up with other problems right now I diddn't want to announce this as I know you guys are so hot and horny for inside pics and tests.
I was hoping someone else would take that burden. (embarrass icon here)

 Hi, chickenHeadKnob

 If you can find a few minutes of spare time, you might want to run the simple tests I described here:-

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fy6800-vs-fy6900/msg2556021/#msg2556021 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fy6800-vs-fy6900/msg2556021/#msg2556021)

 Basically, it's a matter of choosing a "Golden Frequency" as far as producing a (4ns DAC clock period) jitter free square wave output is concerned (5MHz will do nicely - no need to use the frequencies I dialled in to demonstrate the limitations of the "Sync" function on frequency resolution >:D ).

 I attached two low res movie files (320x240) to show my results. Don't bother downloading them; I posted higher res versions (640x480) a few posts further on if you want to compare results. This should confirm whether  the "MagicPulse Technology,Low Jitter(RMS)<200ps" feature to reduce or eliminate the 4ns DAC clock period jitter on square waves, listed for the FY6900 by FeelElec, is a real or imagined one.

 The point being that the FY6900's manual makes no mention of it in the features list, nor in the specifications list as far as I was able to discern. It's only in the sellers' web sites sales blurb pages that this feature gets any mention.

 Since this is such a radical improvement over the preceding models, it seems a very strange omission from the user guide/manual. Mind you, these manuals for the preceding models have said more than they should in claiming a non-existent 10Vpp limitation for sine and square waves in the 10 to 20MHz region so anything is possible, including this error being repeated in the FY6900 manual.

 There is no 10Vpp limit for sine and square waves in the previous two models, only a 20Vpp limit from 1 microHertz to 20MHz inclusive with a jump straight to the 5Vpp limit thereafter. Certain other waveforms are curtailed by a 10Vpp limit but definitely not the sine and square waveforms in the case of the FY6600 and FY6800 models (and quite possibly the same applies to this new model despite what it says in its user guide/manual). The 20Vpp frequency range limit on sine and square waves at least, would also be worth making a quick test of if you still have a little more time to spare.  >:D

 BTW, this the "embarrassed" icon you were searching for  :-[  I've had to use it a (mercifully) few times already since I joined the forum membership some eight months ago now.  ::)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: windsmurf on July 27, 2019, 06:39:53 am
I get 404 errors when I try to download the FY6800 user guide, on both the Google Drive as well as Local download links.... :--

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: PA0PBZ on July 27, 2019, 06:55:33 am
I get 404 errors when I try to download the FY6800 user guide, on both the Google Drive as well as Local download links.... :--

Confirmed, another fail  :palm:
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 27, 2019, 06:57:31 am
Feeltech - it seems you are genuinely trying to address a number of issues.  This is a good thing.

The road ahead will be difficult.  I wish you well.

Thanks for your reply. In the future, we will refer to customers' suggestions and help them solve after-sales problems.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 27, 2019, 07:04:03 am
I get 404 errors when I try to download the FY6800 user guide, on both the Google Drive as well as Local download links.... :--

We are very sorry about it. Our staff will redo the website. Please use this Google Drive download documents. 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3N_NW8vylrmWU93b0EwRjhrQlE
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: DC1MC on July 27, 2019, 07:06:50 am
Hi Feeltech

The link to the documentation and software works from Germany:

 http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6 (http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6)

In the page there one can found some links to things like:   FY6900 User Guide

The links point to a rar archive that contains FY6900 User Guide AND Software

So the quickest and cheapest way is to modify the page to page to say the right thing:  FY6900 User Guide and Software.


Also, for the forum members, do not try to be fluent in English, it is clear that whoever manages the Feeltech account now, it understands a bit of English but not exceedingly much. So try to keep the your sentences shot and to the point. I may know that I'm not the biggest fan of Chine technology but at least there seem to be a sliver of goodwill and things moving in the right direction and this should be encouraged.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 27, 2019, 07:08:09 am
Confirmed, another fail  :palm:

Sorry, dear customers. Please use the Google Drive download the documents. We will send the website link after we finish the website.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3N_NW8vylrmWU93b0EwRjhrQlE

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: PA0PBZ on July 27, 2019, 07:10:09 am
Confirmed, another fail  :palm:

Sorry, dear customers. Please use the Google Drive download the documents. We will send the website link after we finish the website.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3N_NW8vylrmWU93b0EwRjhrQlE

FeelElec

The FY8600 folder in there is EMPTY!
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 27, 2019, 08:29:15 am
The FY6800 folder in there is EMPTY!

Please check it once again, we upgrade the documents.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B3N_NW8vylrmWU93b0EwRjhrQlE

If also can't open it, please contact me in time.
My sincerest apologies。

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: feeltech on July 27, 2019, 08:41:17 am
Hi Feeltech

The link to the documentation and software works from Germany:

 http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6 (http://en.feelelec.com/index.php?case=archive&act=list&catid=6)

In the page there one can found some links to things like:   FY6900 User Guide

The links point to a rar archive that contains FY6900 User Guide AND Software

So the quickest and cheapest way is to modify the page to page to say the right thing:  FY6900 User Guide and Software.


Also, for the forum members, do not try to be fluent in English, it is clear that whoever manages the Feeltech account now, it understands a bit of English but not exceedingly much. So try to keep the your sentences shot and to the point. I may know that I'm not the biggest fan of Chine technology but at least there seem to be a sliver of goodwill and things moving in the right direction and this should be encouraged.

 Cheers,
 DC1MC

Thanks for your suggestions, we will accept your suggestion when building the website.

FeelElec  :)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on July 30, 2019, 08:54:05 am
2.  Can you tell us what changes have been made in the FY6900 other than the case?  Specifically, some resellers are advertising a feature called "Magic Pulse", which supposedly eliminates jitter in certain square waves.  Is this a real thing?

Dear Customers,
This video shows the magic pulse function:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1addM9svUOI&t=18s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1addM9svUOI&t=18s)

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Adrian_Arg. on July 30, 2019, 10:57:16 am
"Magic Pulse" function works only for the rectangular waveform?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on July 30, 2019, 11:37:11 am
What's the video supposed to be showing. :-//
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 30, 2019, 06:57:53 pm
"Magic Pulse" function works only for the rectangular waveform?

 Essentially, it only has to deal with sharp edged transients such as the square wave and its close cousins which contain an "instantaneous transition" between voltage levels (sawtooth and ramps etc). Sinusoidal waveforms are free of the 4ns DAC clock jitter that afflicted the square wave and its cousins in the previous FY6xxx models.

 For anyone not fully acquainted with this issue in their FY6600 and FY6800 function generators, there's a simple test which neatly demonstrates the issue in slow motion (you need an oscilloscope of any type with at least a 15MHz bandwidth - single channel with an external trigger port will suffice at a minimum[1] if you don't have the more usual dual or quad channel DSO to hand).

 Configure your function generator for 5MHz on both channels. Pick a convenient voltage level such as 5Vpp (2.5Vpp into 50 ohm load) and initially set both waveforms to square. Nominate one channel as your 'scope's trigger source and apply a 30mHz frequency offset[2] to the other channel and observe how it changes its phase displacement with respect to the triggering waveform (or slips past the triggering point if using a single channel 'scope triggered from an external trigger input signal set to precisely 5MHz).

 Now go through each waveform type in turn on the channel with the 30mHz offset and observe its side slipping behaviour. You might want to create a table of your observations against each waveform type but that's optional. It shouldn't take too long to determine which waveform types slide smoothly past the trigger point and which slip past it in 4ns increments.

BTW, this was the test I'd rather hoped chickenheadknob would be able to try out with his newly acquired FY6900. I guess he really mustn't have any spare time after all. It's a pity because it would have proved a lot more enlightening than that rather cryptic youtube video demo just posted by FeelElec, supposedly demonstrating their "MagicPulse" technology.

Hopefully, you should find two zipped mkv movies attached to this post. I say hopefully since the posting of attachments interface seems to be rather flakey since they updated it just recently.

[EDIT] The bug persists! I'll send the missing attachment in my next post...


[1] You can even use an old boat anchor 'scope with as low a BW as 5MHz provided you use a frequency setting of 1.25MHz instead of the "Magic" 5MHz initially chosen for this test. Remember, you need a bandwidth of at least three times that of a square wave's fundamental frequency in order for the 'scope to display a reasonable facsimile of said square wave.

[2] The 30mHz offset was chosen to provide a strobing effect at a convenient rate of one jump every few seconds. A larger offset value will speed up the strobing effect - select a value that suits your taste. For sinusoidal waves, it will simply alter the speed at which these waveforms glide smoothly along the X axis.

JBG
 
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 30, 2019, 07:10:41 pm
What's the video supposed to be showing. :-//

 That's an interesting question. As is the usual with such 'promotional' videos, a complete lack of information on what frequency of square waves they are actually using for this demo. An audio commentary could have helped make up for the abysmal resolution chosen for this video.

 Haven't these daft buggers at least heard of 720x576 if not the more appropriate 1280x720 and 1920x1080 resolutions to make up for the absence of a commentary track? You'd almost think they didn't want to give anything away in this video. >:(

 Anyway, further to my previous posting, please find attached the second of my zipped mkv movie files that the kakamaimee eevblog posting UI managed to drop on the floor.

[EDIT] I see what they did! They (eevblog's ui) dropped my first attachment.  >:(  >:(  >:(

 Ho hum, let's try sending the one they dropped...again!!!  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 30, 2019, 07:15:13 pm
The lost attachment!

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 30, 2019, 07:32:42 pm
Ok everyone!

 It looks like both attachments finally made it into this topic thread for all to enjoy (and perhaps be inspired by). >:D

 For those of you wondering just what use the ability to set a ten point something MHz frequency to a precision of μHz could possibly be, wonder no longer for I believe I've just demonstrated one effective use. :)

 Admittedly at a three orders of magnitude less precision but I'm sure those with the patience to wait it out could test the μHz offset option to equal effect (take a snapshot to finally compare with 'the money shot' lest you forget what it started out as). >:D

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on July 30, 2019, 07:34:01 pm
It looks like both attachments finally made it into this topic thread for all to enjoy (and perhaps be inspired by). >:D

I could see them as soon as you posted them, 2 X Square is reference-Sine is 30mHz off.zip (2151.72 kB and 1X Sine is reference-Square is 30mHz off.zip (2135.43 kB

I know a bit about DDS and the 4ns problem, I surprised feelelec didn't make any attempt to show it, or lack of it, - well not surprised really. :)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: exe on July 30, 2019, 07:47:26 pm
How does "magic pulse" work? (what a horrible name btw)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on July 30, 2019, 08:24:21 pm
How does "magic pulse" work? (what a horrible name btw)

I think that for rectangular and triangular waves it chooses just the frequency steps that align with the 4ns intervals, so no jitter but much less frequency resolution, but that's just guesswork based on no info. :)

I can't play JBG's vids in VLC as .mkv or .avi, but that might just be my PC(s).
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 30, 2019, 11:37:02 pm
How does "magic pulse" work? (what a horrible name btw)

I think that for rectangular and triangular waves it chooses just the frequency steps that align with the 4ns intervals, so no jitter but much less frequency resolution, but that's just guesswork based on no info. :)

I can't play JBG's vids in VLC as .mkv or .avi, but that might just be my PC(s).

 Triangle waves (as opposed to sawtooth), like the sine wave, aren't afflicted by this 4ns jitter issue. As for the attached files, you'll need to extract each mkv file from within each zip file before you can play them.  I suppose I could have simply cheated my way past eevblog's file type restriction by simply renaming the mkv file extension to zip. I'll try that now with one of those files...

 I tried the new fangled "Drag 'n' Drop" option - it seems to have attached something although the uploading went rather swifter than I was expecting so I'm not sure whether it actually worked .

[EDIT #2]  It worked! I downloaded them and used "open with" VLC media player to play them. I'll keep that renaming to zip trick in mind for any future movie file uploads. :)

JBG

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: chickenHeadKnob on July 31, 2019, 12:16:51 am

 
 Configure your function generator for 5MHz on both channels. Pick a convenient voltage level such as 5Vpp (2.5Vpp into 50 ohm load) and initially set both waveforms to square. Nominate one channel as your 'scope's trigger source and apply a 30mHz frequency offset[2] to the other channel and observe how it changes its phase displacement with respect to the triggering waveform (or slips past the triggering point if using a single channel 'scope triggered from an external trigger input signal set to precisely 5MHz).

 Now go through each waveform type in turn on the channel with the 30mHz offset and observe its side slipping behaviour. You might want to create a table of your observations against each waveform type but that's optional. It shouldn't take too long to determine which waveform types slide smoothly past the trigger point and which slip past it in 4ns increments.

BTW, this was the test I'd rather hoped chickenheadknob would be able to try out with his newly acquired FY6900. I guess he really mustn't have any spare time after all. It's a pity because it would have proved a lot more enlightening than that rather cryptic youtube video demo just posted by FeelElec, supposedly demonstrating their "MagicPulse" technology.

OK, I did your tests JBG. I figured you would not let go of this once learning I have a 6900 unit (sigh).  My problems at chez c-knob involve a lab in boxes and home renovation, but just for you I hauled out my o'scope and made a hole on my cramped and cluttered computer desk.

 I could not duplicate with sine,square,rectangle or triangle waves; ramps pos,neg, trapezoid, and CMOS and exponentials did however exhibit stepping. I don't want to spend any more time on further investigation right now as this "feature"  holds no obsession for me. I experimented with both sine and square wave as the source (edge) trigger channel. It did not change the cohort of wave shapes which exhibited stepping.

One probably irrelevant issue is that my cabling setup was haphazard and not properly terminated so there was a small amount of ringing with square waves.   The CMOS and trapezoid shapes were free of obvious ringing and they were stepping.

Testing at 5MHz with variable 30-70 mHz offsets
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on July 31, 2019, 12:18:47 am
"I'll keep that renaming to zip trick in mind for any future movie file uploads."

Just adding something to the end usually works and leaves the real .ext visible   ....30mHz off.mkv.txt  or even
...30mHz off.mkv.remove

I can play them after downloading a new version of VLC. :)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 31, 2019, 01:10:40 am
"I'll keep that renaming to zip trick in mind for any future movie file uploads."

Just adding something to the end usually works and leaves the real .ext visible   ....30mHz off.mkv.txt  or even
...30mHz off.mkv.remove

I can play them after downloading a new version of VLC. :)

 Ok StillTrying,

 Thanks for the feedback. TBH, it did cross my mind to simply tack a .zip onto the end... after renaming them. ::)

 Anyway, although it's nowhere near being past my normal bed time (it's only 2am), I'm off for an "early night". ;)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on July 31, 2019, 07:35:53 am
Dear Customers,
We updated a video with subtitles about FY6900 "Magic Pulse" function in youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxi_vpUhJwY&feature (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxi_vpUhJwY&feature)


FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on July 31, 2019, 09:06:04 am
"We updated a video with subtitles"

I think that's actually worse, it confirms that you're not showing any of the unique properties of "Magic Plus", just some 2.71MHz square/pulses.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: beanflying on July 31, 2019, 09:18:44 am
"We updated a video with subtitles"

I think that's actually worse, it confirms that you're not showing any of the properties of "Magic Plus".

Not to mention 'Magic' and Professional are just synonymous with kwality Test Gear  ::)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on July 31, 2019, 10:55:14 am
Men, enlighten me: it is jitter? Or what is it?
Shaking line is about 200ps ..
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 31, 2019, 11:02:27 am
"We updated a video with subtitles"

I think that's actually worse, it confirms that you're not showing any of the properties of "Magic Plus".

 To be fair, it looks like they're trying to demonstrate their version of Siglent's "EasyPulse" technology... and failing badly for want of screen resolution in their demo video. 360p just doesn't cut it in this case. If they'd used 720p or (better yet) 1080p, it would have allowed their audience to see the actual 'scope settings they were using (and very likely the generator settings as well) which would have saved any need for sub-titles in the first place. ::)

 If you're not familiar with Siglent's "EasyPulse" technology, here's a link to the manual for the SDG1062X Signal Generator which boasts this feature (along with, interestingly enough, a mention of 150Msps 14 bit sampling >:D).

http://www.labtronix.co.uk/drupal/sites/default/files/sdg1000x/SDG1000X_DataSheet_DS0201X_E01A.pdf (http://www.labtronix.co.uk/drupal/sites/default/files/sdg1000x/SDG1000X_DataSheet_DS0201X_E01A.pdf)

The relevant DSO trace screen captures are on the fourth page of that document where it looks like they've sacrificed a potential rise and fall time speed of circa 6ns with a 6.67ns jitter for an 18.2ns Tr and Tf with a residual noise jitter of just 200ps rms or so.

 My initial calculated potential improvement before I saw the actual figures had suggested 12ns Tr and Tf figures - the detail reveals they'd made an even greater sacrifice than just one extra clock cycle, it looks more like two extra clock cycles are being sacrificed on the altar of low jitteryness with their slower 150Msps sampling rate - Tr and Tf times as enduring as 18.2ns!  ::)

  I wonder whether the technique inherently demands an extra two cycles to be sacrificed rather than just the one cycle it seems FeelTech had opted for in their own initial attempt to solve this issue on square waves (7.2ns versus the 3.8ns if they hadn't bothered at all - the other waveforms which contain such 'instant' transitions do so with rise and fall times of just 3.8ns). ::)

 I noted this apposite factoid taken from the "Key Features" list on the 2nd page of that pdf

"Special circuit for Square wave function, can generate Square waves up to 60 MHz with jitter less than 300 ps+0.05 ppm of period"

 which I think answers the question "Only Square Waves?"  ;) I mean, if it's good enough for Siglent (on a dual channel 60MHz AWG costing over five times the price of FeelElec's latest effort), then it ought to be just fine for Feeltech's customers too - just my attempt to keep things in perspective.  :-DD

[EDIT]
====================================================================================
 My bad! On taking another look at that "Key Features" list, it seems they're referring to an entirely separate feature aimed at only the square wave function (quite possibly just a squaring circuit driven from the sine wave output with it's own level adjustment circuit - the sort of add on device one could attach to any sine wave generator to achieve low jitter square waves - in this case, integrated into the SDG1062X Signal Generator itself).

 However, since it's a technique which strongly resembles Siglent's (and no doubt every other brand's) solution to edge jitter on pulse waveforms, it probably applies to more than just the square wave example that FeelElec chose for their demo. No doubt, when FeelElec redo their demo video, they'll think to include another pulse waveform.
===================================================================================

 To Feeltech/FeelElec, may I suggest you redo that video in a high enough resolution to allow your potential customers to actually see the 'scope and generator settings? After all, it'll save you having to bother with an audio or subtitled commentary - "A picture (in this case a movie clip) can save a thousand words"... but only if it has sufficient resolution. ::)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 31, 2019, 11:07:44 am
Men, enlighten me: it is jitter? Or what is it?
Shaking line is about 200ps ..

 Prey, do tell. How did you manage to discern that from such an ultra low res video?  :)

 JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on July 31, 2019, 11:10:41 am
PrtScr  ;)

Can be even bigger, if you like..

It is HD 1080p actually as you can see in the bottom right..


So, is it that jitter Magic Pulse technology is about?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on July 31, 2019, 11:43:54 am
Men, enlighten me: it is jitter? Or what is it?
Shaking line is about 200ps ..

I'm quite sure it's the scope's sinx distortion and nothing at all to do with the SG or jitter.

To be fair, it looks like they're trying to demonstrate their version of Siglent's "EasyPulse" technology... and failing badly for want of screen resolution in their demo video.

A complete fail on showing what Magic pulse does wouldn't matter, everybody makes mistakes, etc., but I'm including the other fails such as turning up after 18 months ? and saying sorry we didn't have the staff, were the staff numbers less than 1 ? :)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: exe on July 31, 2019, 01:14:38 pm
afaik when new video is uploaded, it first only available in 360p. Only after a while higher resolutions are available (bc I've seen similar complains on last the signal path video).
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 31, 2019, 04:44:26 pm
PrtScr  ;)

Can be even bigger, if you like..

It is HD 1080p actually as you can see in the bottom right..


So, is it that jitter Magic Pulse technology is about?

 Well, for some reason when I go to youtube to watch that video in a higher resolution, I still can't select any higher res than  the 360p initially offered. The missing options suggestions are no help and searching for a hi-res version fails to find any. I've just spent the past few hours watching 1080p youtube vids, mostly high tech electric aircraft vids, to verify that the problem isn't an Opera issue. Do you have a direct link to that 1080p version you found that you can post?

 As for the type of jitter, it can only be the 4ns clock jitter rather than the typical 200ps rms jitter that afflicts all waveforms regardless.

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on July 31, 2019, 05:07:05 pm
I can turn the quality up to 1080p on the latest video, the quality goes up but there's not much extra info to see!
I can't see a way to link directly to the 1080p version.

Code: [Select]
www.vdyoutube.com/watch?v=wxi_vpUhJwY
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on July 31, 2019, 08:13:58 pm
I can turn the quality up to 1080p on the latest video, the quality goes up but there's not much extra info to see!
I can't see a way to link directly to the 1080p version.

Code: [Select]
www.vdyoutube.com/watch?v=wxi_vpUhJwY

 Thanks for that YT d/l link, StillTrying.

 The best quality I could d/l was a 1280x720 version but that was sufficient to show what I needed to know. A 2.71MHz square wave on a 100ns per div X-axis scale isn't the most revealing of settings. Still, at least it wasn't a 2.5 or 5MHz setting to hide the 4ns jitter from view. The 4ns jitter is quite visible at 2.71MHz on an FY6600, modified or not.

 However, I did notice they'd taken care not to include the Tr and Tf figures in the statistics display. I guess we're just going to have to wait for a proper, independent review to materialise before we get to see just how much of a benefit this "Magic Pulse" business will prove to be.

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 02, 2019, 06:38:44 am

 
 Configure your function generator for 5MHz on both channels. Pick a convenient voltage level such as 5Vpp (2.5Vpp into 50 ohm load) and initially set both waveforms to square. Nominate one channel as your 'scope's trigger source and apply a 30mHz frequency offset[2] to the other channel and observe how it changes its phase displacement with respect to the triggering waveform (or slips past the triggering point if using a single channel 'scope triggered from an external trigger input signal set to precisely 5MHz).

 Now go through each waveform type in turn on the channel with the 30mHz offset and observe its side slipping behaviour. You might want to create a table of your observations against each waveform type but that's optional. It shouldn't take too long to determine which waveform types slide smoothly past the trigger point and which slip past it in 4ns increments.

BTW, this was the test I'd rather hoped chickenheadknob would be able to try out with his newly acquired FY6900. I guess he really mustn't have any spare time after all. It's a pity because it would have proved a lot more enlightening than that rather cryptic youtube video demo just posted by FeelElec, supposedly demonstrating their "MagicPulse" technology.

OK, I did your tests JBG. I figured you would not let go of this once learning I have a 6900 unit (sigh).  My problems at chez c-knob involve a lab in boxes and home renovation, but just for you I hauled out my o'scope and made a hole on my cramped and cluttered computer desk.

 I could not duplicate with sine,square,rectangle or triangle waves; ramps pos,neg, trapezoid, and CMOS and exponentials did however exhibit stepping. I don't want to spend any more time on further investigation right now as this "feature"  holds no obsession for me. I experimented with both sine and square wave as the source (edge) trigger channel. It did not change the cohort of wave shapes which exhibited stepping.

One probably irrelevant issue is that my cabling setup was haphazard and not properly terminated so there was a small amount of ringing with square waves.   The CMOS and trapezoid shapes were free of obvious ringing and they were stepping.

Testing at 5MHz with variable 30-70 mHz offsets

Ok, I did your test JBG, too.
There's really something m a g i c about this FY6900  8)
See attachments, blue trace sine is trigger, yellow trace square is sliding fluently, just little bit twisting and curling  :o - don't know why!
From time to time there is skip like jitter but not very often.
Short videos show this curling/twisting of the yellow trace.  :P

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 02, 2019, 06:41:35 am
and another movie  :scared:
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 02, 2019, 06:42:44 am
and last one  :-//
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 03, 2019, 03:48:18 am
and last one  :-//

 Ok, evava, and thanks for those interesting one second clips.  :)

 I had to set VLC to playback at 0.03 real time to see what was going on. I noticed a single brief 4ns ghost jitter in amongst the more continuous movements made up of tiny sub nanosecond 'jumps' in the first two videos but no sign of such a ghost jitter in the third.

 The 5MHz and 20MHz examples showed a curious 'double vision' effect whilst the 30MHz sample was showing a 'triple vision' effect. Most curious indeed! Just how do they do that!?

 As for the 'wiggly' effect, some of that might be the higher frequency components interacting with the sampling rate of the generator's DAC as they approach the HF end of the anti-aliasing filter's cut off frequency, supposedly somewhere between 75 and 100MHz.

 I've seen similar wrigglyness (but without any double and triple vision effects) on the amplitude and the flanks of the Sinc Pulse waveform at 10MHz as it slides past my homebrewed GPSDO's 10MHz square wave trace (the triggering signal in this case).

 At these frequencies, there may also be some cross-talk effect between the two channels so I wouldn't get too distracted by such wrigglyness. However, what can't be ignored is the double and triple vision effect which must be a side effect of whatever this "Magic Pulse" process is doing. I've not see such an effect on my more humble FY6600. That appears to be a new feature of the FY6900.

 Otherwise, when you're not using this 30mHz offset trick to reveal these signal generators' shortcomings, how does it perform with more normal settings? Can you still observe such effects on the square wave without resorting to the use of a 30mHz offset from a "Magic Frequency"?

 It does beg the question as to whether you'd see a similar effect if you run this 30mHz offset trick on a Siglent SDG1062X at its 'magic frequency' (based on a 150MHz sampling rate of course - 3MHz in this case). :-//

 I think I may have a new motto: "You make 'em, I break 'em.".  >:D

 Incidentally, just out of curiosity, I processed those clips with Handbrake to compress them into mkv container files and converted the 1st two 3MiB clips into 1.2MiB mkvs and the 3rd 4MiB clip into a 1.5MiB mkv. If you'd supported the camera on a tripod to steady the footage, I'd have probably been able to get a bit more compression.

 I reckon you'd have been able to offer 5 second or longer clips within the 4MB limit if you'd chosen a lower resolution such as 1280x720 of footage shot from a locked off tripod supported camera and compressed them with Handbrake or a similar video compression tool. Even 720x576 would likely have shown sufficient detail and allowed you to offer even longer clips within the 5MB limit, just a suggestion to get the most out your movie files if you want to avoid hosting them on youtube just so you can post youtube links instead of 4 and 5 MB attachments.

 At the time I did my own low res movie clips, I'd had a 2MB limit in mind. Knowing now that I can post 4MB clips, I'll try using 720x576 to create 20 to 30 second clips next time. You don't always need full HD to show short movie clips of unusual 'scope traces.  ;)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 03, 2019, 04:27:55 am

 
 Configure your function generator for 5MHz on both channels. Pick a convenient voltage level such as 5Vpp (2.5Vpp into 50 ohm load) and initially set both waveforms to square. Nominate one channel as your 'scope's trigger source and apply a 30mHz frequency offset[2] to the other channel and observe how it changes its phase displacement with respect to the triggering waveform (or slips past the triggering point if using a single channel 'scope triggered from an external trigger input signal set to precisely 5MHz).

 Now go through each waveform type in turn on the channel with the 30mHz offset and observe its side slipping behaviour. You might want to create a table of your observations against each waveform type but that's optional. It shouldn't take too long to determine which waveform types slide smoothly past the trigger point and which slip past it in 4ns increments.

BTW, this was the test I'd rather hoped chickenheadknob would be able to try out with his newly acquired FY6900. I guess he really mustn't have any spare time after all. It's a pity because it would have proved a lot more enlightening than that rather cryptic youtube video demo just posted by FeelElec, supposedly demonstrating their "MagicPulse" technology.

OK, I did your tests JBG. I figured you would not let go of this once learning I have a 6900 unit (sigh).  My problems at chez c-knob involve a lab in boxes and home renovation, but just for you I hauled out my o'scope and made a hole on my cramped and cluttered computer desk.

 I could not duplicate with sine,square,rectangle or triangle waves; ramps pos,neg, trapezoid, and CMOS and exponentials did however exhibit stepping. I don't want to spend any more time on further investigation right now as this "feature"  holds no obsession for me. I experimented with both sine and square wave as the source (edge) trigger channel. It did not change the cohort of wave shapes which exhibited stepping.

One probably irrelevant issue is that my cabling setup was haphazard and not properly terminated so there was a small amount of ringing with square waves.   The CMOS and trapezoid shapes were free of obvious ringing and they were stepping.

Testing at 5MHz with variable 30-70 mHz offsets

 Apologies for the tardy response.  :-[

 I'd gotten a little distracted by the low res youtube video issue I'd been experiencing so your reply got pushed so far onto the back burner, it took evava's reply to remind me about it and the fact that I hadn't actually made a reply.

 Anyway, thanks for taking the time to run those tests which seem to indicate that this Magic Pulse is only being applied to square waves. Sine and triangle waves didn't suffer from this 4ns clock jitter effect anyway, just square waves and any other waves with an instant transition between voltage levels such as ramps and sawtooth waveforms.

 It rather looks like they've moved the square wave out of the jittered waveform category and into the jitterless category which includes sine and triangle waveforms. I'll have to test the trapezoidal wave since I'd have expected it to be free of this jitter just like the triangle wave which I'd swear was a (surprisingly) jitterless example when I first checked it out.

 Anyway, that's more food for thought. I'll have another look at what is and what isn't free of this 4ns jitter on my FY6600 when I get some free time. I'm currently trying to complete a GPSDO project I've just started transferring from a prototyping breadboard lashup onto a piece of veroboard that I've prepped up to slide into a small extruded aluminium project enclosure, so I'm a little preoccupied right now - I do appreciate were you're coming from  :)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 03, 2019, 09:25:23 am
Thank you JBG for your answer.
Indeed it must have been some crosstalk or crossmodulation between channels or external modulation  of a special kind.
If I set both channels to square wawe this triple curling appears in both channels!

(you can set your player to continuously replaying this short clip, so you can better see what is going on)

If I push Single on scope, there are always just thin lines (yellow and blue ones), but always they have another shape.
Photos in next post.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 03, 2019, 09:31:35 am
pictures:

Go figure!
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on August 03, 2019, 10:14:36 am
"If I set both channels to square wave this triple curling appears in both channels!"

Are the curly edges still there with both channels set to frequencies that align exactly with the 4ns sampling times, 1Mhz and 2MHz would do.

15Mhz, yellow trigger, both square, both trippled.jpg
If the scope's 1GSa/s there's only 2.5 samples per division, most of those curls will be the scope's Sinx doing the best it can with so few samples on the edge.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 03, 2019, 10:51:05 am
"If I set both channels to square wave this triple curling appears in both channels!"

Are the curly edges still there with both channels set to frequencies that align exactly with the 4ns sampling times, 1Mhz and 2MHz would do.

Blue: 2Mhz, not curling
Yellow: trigger, 30mHz next to, curling.
No jitter.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 03, 2019, 10:56:49 am
And trigger vice versa:

Blue: trigger, 2Mhz, not curling
Yellow: 30mHz next to, curling.
Again, no jitter.

Instead of jitter there seems to be curling?  :-//
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 03, 2019, 12:40:42 pm
And 100kHz:

- time base 5ns per division, you see leading edges
- yellow trace 100kHz,
- blue trace trigger, 300uHz next to, curling
yellow slips slowly, then skip (jitter?), and again slips slowly, while blue trace is constantly curling!

They are trying so desperately to suppress the jitter..or?

I wonder, how Siglent or Rigol cope with that?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 03, 2019, 03:45:55 pm
Thank you JBG for your answer.
Indeed it must have been some crosstalk or crossmodulation between channels or external modulation  of a special kind.
If I set both channels to square wawe this triple curling appears in both channels!

(you can set your player to continuously replaying this short clip, so you can better see what is going on)

If I push Single on scope, there are always just thin lines (yellow and blue ones), but always they have another shape.
Photos in next post.

 That was a more informative video clip. I tried setting VLC to play those 1 second clips on a continuous loop but the best I could do was to get it to play two passes at a time. I had more luck with this 3 second video and the trick appears to be to set the B point a few frames short of the bitter end to achieve continuous loop play. I guess the brevity of those 1 second clips was the reason for my limited success with loop play.

 It's surprising what a difference reducing the resolution from full HD down to a 1280x720 clip does for the playing time you can get out of a 4.5MB clip. I'd expect just mounting the camera onto a tripod, locked off to eliminate any camera wobbles would let you get more time for a given file size.

 All the common video formats use lossy compression to minimise storage requirements (and reduce writing speed to the media), so the less changes, frame to frame, that have to be recorded, the less the amount of picture data that has to be sent in each group of pictures (GoP), typically half to one second's worth of frames between a total refresh of each key frame during which only frame to frame differences are recorded.

 "Wobbly-cam" recordings aren't much of an issue when you're hosting your home movies on Youtube but when it comes to trying to cram a few second's worth of video into a 4 or 5 MB attachment limit, this sort of care in the camera work becomes rather more critical. If you don't have a tripod, you can arrange some sort of stable support to rest the camera upon (a stack of hardback books for height adjustment on a chair or small table for example).

 Anyway, having noted those points regarding video technique, I can comment on the effect of this "Magic Pulse" you'd managed to capture. The "Magic" has obviously eliminated the gross 4ns jumps you'd otherwise be seeing with a 6600 or 6800 function generator, lending the movement a more liquid, if ripply, appearance.

 It looks like the 'jumps' in phase are now around the 1.5ns mark. The tripling up looks like it could be the effect of the 'scope using some sort of persistence (a one second persistence setting perhaps?), otherwise I'd expect this tripling up effect to produce a blurred image rather than the crystal sharp images of seemingly three horizontal scans worth overlaid on top of each other.

 It's quite obvious that you're terminating the 'scope end of those BNC cables with 50 ohms (5Vpp settings with the scope showing circa 2.5Vpp values) so we can't blame badly matched cables for any of these effects. It would be interesting to see whether others in your priviledged position of FY6900 ownership would see the same effect using a different make and/or model of DSO like a Siglent SDS1202X-E for example  ;)

 Anyway, that's something to ponder on and I thank you for your contribution, both for this longer clip :) and for reminding me about the forgotten loop playback option in VLC. :palm:

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 04, 2019, 09:36:11 am
Hi JBG,
thank you for your kind words and new information in every your post.
And thank you for pointing me to Persistence setting on the scope, I have never thought it has much use. (I was wrong, obviously).
And support for camera is now ready  :)

Quote
It's quite obvious that you're terminating the 'scope end of those BNC cables with 50 ohms (5Vpp settings with the scope showing circa 2.5Vpp values) so we can't blame badly matched cables for any of these effects
Yes, I use "Banggood Special" ones, 50(?!) Ohm feed-through terminators. They work just ok.

Quote
The tripling up looks like it could be the effect of the 'scope using some sort of persistence (a one second persistence setting perhaps?), otherwise I'd expect this tripling up effect to produce a blurred image rather than the crystal sharp images of seemingly three horizontal scans worth overlaid on top of each other.

In all previous pictures and videos I had scope persistence set to "Min".

For better clarification I am now attaching pictures a videos with persistence set to "Min" and then to "Infinite", to maybe allow you to discern what is the feature of my Rigol and what not.

P.S. I like your polite English very much :)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 04, 2019, 09:38:20 am
15MHz, persistence to "Min" - like in all previous videos.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 04, 2019, 09:39:31 am
15MHz, persistence set to "Infinite".

It seems to me that "Infinite" setting behaves rather like "Min" setting should behave...  :-//

Other settings (except Min and Infinite) behave like expected.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on August 04, 2019, 11:43:26 am
The "Magic" has obviously eliminated the gross 4ns jumps you'd otherwise be seeing with a 6600 or 6800 function generator, lending the movement a more liquid, if ripply, appearance.

Don't forget that the sine waves will still have the up to +/- 2ns sample timing jitter, it's just that the sine's amplitude can be corrected to fit the +/- 2ns off position. So there'll still be some timing wobble depending on the analogue BW between the DAC and squarer.

"It looks like the 'jumps' in phase are now around the 1.5ns mark."

I think at the mid level of the square waves it's better than that. I still don't know what their video was supposed to be showing. :)
Going by the threads on here it seem that many don't trust the Rigol even in dot mode when it gets down to only 2 samples on a fast edge.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: evava on August 04, 2019, 12:20:10 pm
Both traces square, both 150Hz , persistence Infinite:

And - jitter 4ns, finally!

Is this FY6900 better than FY6600/6800, can someone compare?
Is it upgrade or downgrade?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on August 05, 2019, 03:24:20 pm
"Both traces square, both 150Hz , persistence Infinite:
And - jitter 4ns, finally!"


If they're squaring up a sine wave I'd expect some jitter to still be there at 150 kHz if it's a none 4ns frequency, when you get up to MHz the analogue BW will smooth the gaps in the sine's samples, the same as sinx draws between samples.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 06, 2019, 03:59:24 am
Hi JBG,
thank you for your kind words and new information in every your post.
And thank you for pointing me to Persistence setting on the scope, I have never thought it has much use. (I was wrong, obviously).
And support for camera is now ready  :)

Quote
It's quite obvious that you're terminating the 'scope end of those BNC cables with 50 ohms (5Vpp settings with the scope showing circa 2.5Vpp values) so we can't blame badly matched cables for any of these effects
Yes, I use "Banggood Special" ones, 50(?!) Ohm feed-through terminators. They work just ok.

Quote
The tripling up looks like it could be the effect of the 'scope using some sort of persistence (a one second persistence setting perhaps?), otherwise I'd expect this tripling up effect to produce a blurred image rather than the crystal sharp images of seemingly three horizontal scans worth overlaid on top of each other.

In all previous pictures and videos I had scope persistence set to "Min".

For better clarification I am now attaching pictures a videos with persistence set to "Min" and then to "Infinite", to maybe allow you to discern what is the feature of my Rigol and what not.

P.S. I like your polite English very much :)

 Regarding the double and triple vision effect, I've just had a thought that it might simply be an artefact of the camera due to the shutter speed allowing two or three screen refreshes to be captured. On second thought, after having another look at the latest 30MHz clip, perhaps not.

 Persistence is usually used to emulate a CRO's averaging effect through the long persistence phosphors used in the CRT which provided an indication of where the trace would be painted most often and where it would paint infrequently when using a high horizontal scan frequency, giving a better visual impression of the jitter noise and just plain noise on the waveforms being displayed.

 Early DSOs didn't include such CRT persistence effects which were missed by users who had upgraded from a CRO to a DSO and had been relying on this extra 'information' they'd been able to glean from this 'defect of persistence' that had been eliminated in the earlier DSO models. Suffice to say, FeelElec's 'scope settings must be making use of persistence to demonstrate the reduction of the 4ns jitter on square waves in exactly the same way that Siglent have seemingly done in their own 'scope trace captures shown in the data sheet for their own generators blessed with their own "Easy Pulse"(tm) feature.

 Multiple traces like the ones in your own screenshots and movie clips, ime, tend to be down to the DSO's trigger processing becoming confused by a level of randomness in the triggering signal, typically seen when trying to examine the HF ripple on the output rails of an SMPSU.

 I suspect the technique being used is a close relative to the concept of adding 'dither noise' to a music CD recording to convert the more objectional quantisisation noise to a less objection 'tape hiss' like background noise. In this case, it would appear that the 4ns jitter has been traded in for a 1ns randomised jitter in this case, judging as best as I can from those traces. I can't blame Siglent for using persistance in their own trace captures. Without such persistance, the crystal clarity is actually masking the true random nature of the phase dither noise that's now replacing the gross 4 and 6.7ns clock jitter that would otherwise show up without the Magic Pulse and Easy Pulse processing in each respective case.

 Of course, I could be completely off the mark but that's my best guess as to what's happening here. You probably only need a 1 second's worth of persistence to give a more accurate impression of the effectiveness of FeelElec's "Magic Pulse" processing. The only troubling thing about FeelElec's version of Siglent's Easy Pulse technique being the evidence of the occasional rogue 4ns jitter transient.

 I suspect that a frame by frame search of a minute or more's worth of movie footage without the use of persistence, using a Siglent generator in this test at its "Golden Frequency" of 3MHz, would reveal a similar result but without any rogue transient 6.6667ns ghost jitter events (or not - who's to say Siglent have done any better a job of this? - as far as anyone knows, such a test has never been done before).

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on August 06, 2019, 06:54:20 am
JBG you're describing 'waveform averaging' rather than persistence. I still think they're squaring up a DDS sine wave, but I won't be buying one just to do some tests. :)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 06, 2019, 12:43:19 pm
JBG you're describing 'waveform averaging' rather than persistence. I still think they're squaring up a DDS sine wave, but I won't be buying one just to do some tests. :)

 You and me, both! :)

 TBH, I can't imagine that many owners of the FY6600 and 6800 models would be tempted to go for such a modest "upgrade" as represented by the improvements offered in the FY6900. That's not to say that when it comes to a hobbyist's choice of first time AWG, the FY6900 would be the one to go for despite the modest price premium over the now cheaper offerings of the older models.

 The PSU must surely be an "improved" +/-15 volt design simply to allow it to meet its DC to 5MHz 24Vpp specification alone. A 20% boost over the "Industry Standard" P2P limit is more marketing gimmick than any genuine asked for improvement. The traditional solution to obtaining higher voltage test signals has always been provided by the simple expedient of inserting a linear amplifier into the signal chain to serve this less common requirement. What self respecting EE doesn't keep a suitable linear amp to hand in their test lab for just such unusual testing scenarios? ;)

 I'm looking forward to seeing the first comprehensive review and tear down youtube video, even if it's simply to satisfy prurient curiosity.  :popcorn:

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Adrian_Arg. on August 06, 2019, 02:01:14 pm
I am waiting for my KKMOOM 6900 60 MHz ;D
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on August 06, 2019, 02:50:17 pm
Why do they market these things with names like KABOOM and JUNKTEK.

It doesn't matter how magical and mysterious the pulses are, I wouldn't buy one while they show 8kHz as 00'008,000.000'000'000'000  >:D
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: excitedbox on August 11, 2019, 05:05:16 pm
My biggest problem is the website. As a web designer I don´t understand how any business can neglect their store and image. Your website is essentially a store location like a brick and mortar store at 1% of the cost but 1000x the value. If you walked into a pizza place with outdated or missing menus, broken tables and chairs that didn´t give you what you ordered (broken links), you would never go back.

A website is also a representation of your company and it´s values. A neglected website whether broken, or outdated, reflects the service you can expect from that company. Yet maintaining a clean and professional website is a one time investment of a couple hundred for most businesses compared to the monthly rent and huge construction costs of a brick and mortar business.

It is crazy to me that many companies that spend 10s of thousands on store fixtures and thousands a month on rent are not willing to spend $500-2000 once to build an entire second store.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on August 12, 2019, 11:17:26 am
My biggest problem is the website. As a web designer I don´t understand how any business can neglect their store and image.

I keep thinking that FT's website, marketing and technical support are just a student project for stuff they buy in.
http://feelelec.com (http://feelelec.com)
http://en.feeltech.net (http://en.feeltech.net)

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: excitedbox on August 12, 2019, 05:20:32 pm
They are not the only ones though. So many businesses just don´t get it. They literally pay as much a month for 1 employee as an entire website costs and is as if you opened up a store in every town around the world.

I offered someone a website out of pity last week. Website with SEO for 250 EUROS literally 10% of my normal rate since I just wanted some extra cash and haven´t heard from them since.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: dunkemhigh on August 12, 2019, 07:59:32 pm
What's the website for? No-one is going to buy from it. Also, it may be a (relatively) trivial cost to set up, but it has to be maintained by someone, so that's an ongoing cost.

Quote
As a web designer I don´t understand how any business can neglect their store and image

MRDA :)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: excitedbox on August 13, 2019, 09:03:43 am
Most websites don´t need to be maintained besides answering emails or maybe updating a few words of text every few months which takes literally minutes. Ongoing costs for a basic website are under 50 a year in hosting fees and domain name registration fees.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Heszu on August 14, 2019, 02:02:42 pm
Hi, there..
Is FY6900 equipped with Fan in the back panel ??
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Adrian_Arg. on August 14, 2019, 03:43:00 pm
Hi, there..
Is FY6900 equipped with Fan in the back panel ??

No, it is only the hole so that if you want you put one. |O |O
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Jon.C on August 15, 2019, 06:39:06 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaNvHQW_CsQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaNvHQW_CsQ)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: bdunham7 on August 15, 2019, 08:42:47 pm
So I got my FY6900 today.  There's actually not much to tell and the video above shows enough. I'll just mention the issues that are probably of greatest concern to most.

It's the same guts in a slightly nicer case.  However, the parts of the case that stick out don't protect the BNC jacks nor do they allow you to stand the unit on its back with a right angle power cord.  It has a 3-prong power inlet, but it appears very cheap and my cords slide on and off very easily. The whole thing is comically light.

Amplitude and frequency controls oddly allow me to select up to 60MHz on any waveform, and the amplitude available is up to 24.0V at 20MHz and below.  Scope shows that it indeed is putting out at least that, if not a bit more, into a 1M scope input.  Above 20MHz it drops to 5.00 volts, which fades away a bit at 60MHz.  It's worth noting that a square wave at 10 MHz looks much worse (rounded, distorted) at amplitudes above 5.00V.  The op amps that kick in above 5.00V obviously are struggling.

The outputs are all connected and grounded to the IEC connector ground, but the measured resistance between the front BNC shell and the power cord ground is 2 ohms or so.

The DDS-inherent 4ns issue has been altered by interpolation--just look at the square wave inching its way across the screen at the end of the above video.  A quick check shows that the issue of a 10MHz square wave having a 48ns upper and 52ns lower section has been replaced by a 10MHz square wave that has equal periods measured at the zero-crossover point, but now has a 5ns rise and 8ns fall.  It seems pretty clear that they are using an interpolation method where instead of 12 high (+) samples followed by 13 low ones (-), they use 12 high, a zero and then 12 low.  Cleverly simple, but now a 10.000001MHz square wave shows three different rise times--so that the jitter is only low if you are using the zero crossover as your trigger point--and even then, there seems to be an occasional 4ns stray waveform.  My guess is that "Magic Pulse" is a half-baked simple linear interpolation method and that it will create as many issues as it solves.  We'll see.

[attach=1]

Anyway, for a cheap-ish signal generator for hobby use, it's probably worth the US$ 86 that I paid.  There's a bit more room to build a linear PS if you want, the grounding can be undone to make it floating again fairly easily (even with the stock PS) and there's a place to install an optional fan if you like.  That's right--what looks like a fan on the back panel is actually just a place where one could be installed by you.  And while you are at it, trim the excess plastic flash out of the fake vents along the sides at the bottom....
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: StillTrying on August 15, 2019, 10:56:44 pm
So the only slight problem with Magic Pulse is that it doesn't work?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: SteveyG on August 16, 2019, 09:25:59 am
Here's my quick overview. Let me know if anyone needs anything specific covering in more detail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaNvHQW_CsQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaNvHQW_CsQ)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: SteveyG on August 16, 2019, 09:26:47 am
Hi, there..
Is FY6900 equipped with Fan in the back panel ??

No, it could possibly use one though - it gets quite warm when driving 50R loads.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 22, 2019, 07:14:50 pm
Here's my quick overview. Let me know if anyone needs anything specific covering in more detail

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaNvHQW_CsQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaNvHQW_CsQ)

 Hi Steve and thanks for that revealing  teardown video. :)

 It didn't quite hit the spot (at least as far us seasoned FY66/68 hundred users and fettlers are concerned ;) ). However, it did reveal the same earthing trick used on the FY6800, namely the stolen ribbon cable wire in the PS to Main board DC rails link, one of the two ground wires snipped off at the main board end and dragged over to the earth pin on the C14 connector - you can actually see the cut end in your video.

 You were rightly concerned over the issue of the glass fuse and the inadequate insulation of the stolen ribbon cable wire in the face of its trailing over bare conductors carrying full mains voltage but you missed the fact that this 'hard' connection to the safety earth isn't actually required with a class II smpsu and should have been replaced with a 1 to 10 KR 'static drain' resistor to effectively suppress the half live mains leakage without introducing the troublesome earthing loop issues you so eloquently described.

 Who knew, given the presence of a C14 mains socket to provide access to the protective earth (a feature lacking in the FY6600 and its predecessors), that the answer to this half live mains leakage issue was as simple as a 1 to 10k 'drain' resistor to link the main board ground to the protective earth? :)

 The absence of an actual fan in the rear panel fan housing location is but a minor impediment to all of us hardy "Fixers of things broken by design", at least all the hard work has already been done for us (no need for gross mechanical modding involving the use of drills or hole saws in this case  >:D).

 One burning question remains in my mind at least and that is whether Feeltech have finally gotten round to fixing their "Skoolboy Howler" in the BOM selection for the attenuator pad that gets switched in at output voltage levels of 500mVpp and below. The BOM used for this attenuator in the FY6600 and FY6800 models is still resolutely creating a 20dBish attenuator with a nominal impedance not of 50 ohms but one that's curiously of 86ohm impedance. Therefore, I'm wondering if you can test whether this remains the case with this model?

 It's fairly straightforward to check. Set the output to 500mVpp at a convenient frequency and change to a 1mV amplitude step size. Having set it up this way, check the magnitude of the signal with a 'scope or LMS as you adjust between 500 and 501mV settings (or possibly it's between 499 and 500mV - around the point at which the relay kicks in and out at any rate).

 What I, and others, had discovered was that without a terminating impedance load, the change in level was as expected but when terminated with a 50 ohm load, the change in level was much greater than the expected circa 1mV (tens of mV in fact). You can either calculate the impedance by measuring the voltage drop between no load and 50 ohm load at a fixed 499mV setting in the time honoured way or else cheat by turning the amplitude down to zero or just a millivolt or two at say a frequency of 100 to 10000 Hz and literally do a resistance measurement with a DMM (after fine tuning out any DC offset, of course!).

 Being familiar with Feeltech's track record in missing every golden opportunity to put right their various "Skoolboy Howlers" to date, I'd be very much surprised if you don't see the exact same behaviour we 66/68 owners have come to see and loathe.

 Even the error in the specifications section of all the manuals concerning the PP voltage level limits versus frequency ranges has been preserved (the only difference in this case being the 24Vpp for sine and square waves being maintained right up to 20MHz as per the previous 20Vpp limit of the 66/68 models).

 One curious anomaly appears to be the ability of this new generator to output 24Vpp sine waves out of a +/-12 supply when, quite clearly in the face of the 1.2 volt worst case "headroom" figure for the THS3495 (it'll be thereabouts for the original THS3002i dual opamp used and the THS3091/3095 opamps that have been used to upgrade the 20Vpp performance at the 20MHz limit in the 66/68 models), it should be clipping at around the 22Vpp mark.

 This begs the question as to how they've achieved such a magical result. Perhaps the PSU board has been upgraded to a nominal +/-15v unit with the silk screen printing unaltered to reflect this, or else perhaps, they've incorporated a couple of boost converters on the main board to feed the THS opamp rails. Measuring the actual voltages on the rails marked as +/-12v should answer this question.

 I've no doubt there'll be other test requests from others but those are the ones that stand out in my mind. Anything else I might think up will merely be icing on the cake and I think these will be enough to burden you with for now. :)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 22, 2019, 07:48:02 pm
Hi, there..
Is FY6900 equipped with Fan in the back panel ??

No, it could possibly use one though - it gets quite warm when driving 50R loads.

 Thanks for saying that, Steve. I've had my own observation on the surprisingly high temperatures inside of these signal generators (gently) questioned by some of the contributors to the FY6600 thread (which now includes discussion of this and the FY6800 since they're essentially identical machines with just minor variations - mostly cosmetic).

 To my mind, fitting a cooling fan, whatever the model, should be one of the very first modifications to be contemplated before anything else (along with the 1 to 10K "static drain" earthing resistor which in the case of the FY6600 involves an upgrade from the C8 two pole mains connector to a three pole C6 or C14 before this can be completed - it's a trivial mod in the case of the FY6800 and this 6900 model).

 For reference, I was measuring temperatures with an IR thermometer (therefore of necessity with the lid off) of 70 deg C from the three LDO regulators with a 50 deg reading from the SMD XO only 10mm away and ditto for the FPGA and the base of the heatsink.

 Mind you, this was whilst I had modded the PSU to increase its "5V" rail from 4.96 to 5.49 volts in order to raise the 11.7v on the "+/-12v" to a less marginal 12.7v so those LDO ics were probably running some 5 degrees or so hotter than standard. Even so, I'd expect the innards to possibly be running another 15 to 20 degree warmer with the lid in place.

Plastic isn't a particularly good thermal conductor so the two hot spots on top of the case are a pale reflection of the true temperature level inside. I don't as yet possess a thermal probe to test with the lid fitted but if and when I get hold of such a probe, I'll run a fan disabled fan enabled test to confirm the efficacy of such cooling. In the meantime, the fact that the two hotspots have disappeared without trace is enough confirmation of my fan cooling upgrade's efficacy. ;)

 My main concern isn't over the effect on the 'Silicon' but rather that of the life shortening effect on all those electrolytic caps inside. I'd rather not have to do a recapping exercise after a mere two to three years of hard use (nor for that matter, risk BGA failure) so for me, "Cool" is good, "Hot" is  (literally!) bad in this case - I'd much rather have "Cool" than "Hot".  >:D

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: ed512 on August 23, 2019, 09:11:28 pm
I have received my FY6900 but am unable to get the supplied software to work.  I installed the software on a Win7 machine and it opens OK but does not seem to connect the the FY6900.  I am also looking for instructions on how to use the software and specifically how to create custom arbitrary waveforms.  Of course connecting to the FY6900 is the most important thing.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: TD-er on August 29, 2019, 02:35:34 pm
I also received my FY6900, but apart from typical coil whining from the power supply, it does not work at all. If you switch off the power switch on the back, you hear the pitch change and after switch this switch again you don't hear anything.
Only after a few minutes the (annoying) coil whine is back when switching this switch on again.

I am waiting for a reply from either Banggood or Feelelec, but so far it is not the best first impression here.

Not sure what issues the older versions had with their power supply.
I wish I read this thread before buying it. :(
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 29, 2019, 04:24:47 pm
I also received my FY6900, but apart from typical coil whining from the power supply, it does not work at all. If you switch off the power switch on the back, you hear the pitch change and after switch this switch again you don't hear anything.
Only after a few minutes the (annoying) coil whine is back when switching this switch on again.

I am waiting for a reply from either Banggood or Feelelec, but so far it is not the best first impression here.

Not sure what issues the older versions had with their power supply.
I wish I read this thread before buying it. :(

 Sounds like it might be a loose connector. You've seen the video so go take a look! :) You never know, the 'cure' might be something as simple as reseating a connector.  :)

 Regarding your wishing to have read this thread before buying it, that's exactly what I did some nine months ago when it was only 69 pages long. It took me almost three days to thoroughly read every post, followed by another day skimming through them again before ordering an FY6600-60M from a UK based seller.

 The time spent reading the thread was time well spent since I was fully prepared to deal with whatever faults it may have suffered from bad assembly through to shipping damage (as well as all those "Faulty by Design" problems I was planning on putting right).

 By the time I received mine, just over a week later, I was more than thoroughly prepared for what I expected it to be, a fun filled DIY "Fixer Upper" project. :)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: excitedbox on August 30, 2019, 05:40:39 am
Mine is sitting at customs in Frankfurt right now (since the 27th) waiting to be released. It spend 10 days sitting at the Airport in China waiting on it´s flight. But with any luck it will be here on Monday.

I hate always having to wait so long for shipping. I get so impatient  |O :scared:
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: TD-er on August 30, 2019, 10:29:01 am
I did wait with opening until I got a reply via the mail.
They asked me to look inside and indeed it was a loose connector.
The connector between mainboard and power supply.

I also looked at the 'ground cable' and apart from the mentioned lack of insulation level, it is also dangling on a single thread of the internal strings.
So that's going to be replaced like in the video and I will also add some shrink tube on the other mains joints just to be sure.

This ground wire is really a safety issue, since it can come loose quite ease during transport and touch one of the mains points.

The manufacturer also wrote this about the power supply:
Quote
Our power supply is + & - 13.5V and 5V, the current is 200mA.
I assume it is for all voltages.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Howardlong on August 30, 2019, 09:37:32 pm
Pro tip: a coat of clear Plasti Dip rubber coating on the knob works wonders.

I masked off the back with tape before dunking it into the tin (it might work with a spray too, I just have a small 250ml tin of it). After removing it a few second later, I left it for about three hours to dry, removed the mask and popped it back on. Like night and day.

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 30, 2019, 10:03:36 pm
Mine is sitting at customs in Frankfurt right now (since the 27th) waiting to be released. It spend 10 days sitting at the Airport in China waiting on it´s flight. But with any luck it will be here on Monday.

I hate always having to wait so long for shipping. I get so impatient  |O :scared:

 I presume that you meant the 27th of this month. That's hardly any delay at all!  :-DD  How about a 99p tracked order for ten 74hc14s that's been sitting in Hong Kong customs since the 1st of June (just two days after being shipped out of China by the seller) and is, afaik but no longer care about, still stuck in that black hole. ::)

 I'd finally had enough of all the waiting so got Ebay to 'resolve the issue' and the seller has reimbursed my 99 pence. I'd ordered half a dozen of these ICs from a UK based Chinaman at the exorbitant price of almost three quid about three weeks ago and they'd arrived just 8 or 9 days later.

 I'd have insisted on the seller making another delivery attempt (at just 9.9 pence each, one can never have too many 74HC14s in the parts bin) except for the fact that Ebay have a peculiar definition of the phrase "21 business days lack of activity" in determining when to arbitrarily close a case I'd opened in regard of a cheap (£40.41) FY6600-60M I'd ordered from a Hong Kong seller who had unsuccessfully tried to send me a second unit when the first had become overdue by a month.

 Luckily for me, the seller in this case did actually refund my account via the paypal system, no thanks to ebay's flawed disputes handling system. The strange thing in this second case was that the seller had chosen the cheapest possible shipping option which lacked any tracking options.. both times! A 99p order gets the tracked treatment yet a 40 quid one doesn't - go figure! :wtf:

[EDIT 20191017-1]
 That pack of ten 74HC14s finally popped through my letterbox on the 14th, only 4 1/2 months after submitting the order!!! I told the seller and reimbursed him the payment he'd refunded. At a mere 99 pence, it was well worth such a tiny cost to salve my conscience with such 'honesty' in this case. :)

 Although it seems highly improbable that the FY6600-60M I'd ordered around the same time will ever turn up, I'm not so sure I'll be quite so honest when it comes to a matter of £40.41 on an untracked parcel. >:D [END_EDIT]

 Both purchase attempts had become disappointing failures but at least I got my money back.  :)  :( :-\  I'm now looking to Banggood as my main supplier now, ever since having had my attention drawn to the absolutely fabulous KSGER T12 oled soldering station they sell which is designed to drive the Hakko T12/T15 70 watt rated direct drive (with thermocouple) soldering iron tips far far more accurately than the original Hakko soldering stations ever could.

 However, as is usual with Chinese made mains powered kit, the 24v smpsu has potentially lethal issues requiring some gross mechanical remedial work on the diode heatsink (which bridges the nice isolation slots milled into the PCB) to improve on the use of solder resist mask as the sole method of insulation against a 170 to 340 vdc carrying circuit trace. :wtf: Not a serious problem for anyone who understands this lackadaisical attitude to mains voltage safety by the Chinese and regards such safety checking and basic remedial work as SOP with such Chinese product. >:D

 This is one soldering station I can't recommend as a first soldering iron for a newbie to purchase even though it's an excellent choice for the seasoned hobbyist upgrading from years of frustration with classic mains powered soldering irons such as the Antex 15, 18 and 25 watt models (or worse[1]) whom one can reasonably assume would know how to recognise Chinese death traps when they see them and, importantly, know just how to remove them. >:D

 It was Banggood simply because they were the only seller who were offering the right combination of soldering iron handle (the under-rated, even unjustly disparaged, T12-9501) and a T12-K 'starter tip' to go with the oled mains powered and extruded aluminium cased station[2] at a sensible price (Ebay sellers were only offering rubbish combos at inflated prices and my recent "Ebay Experience" had rather put me off dealing with any more Ebay sellers anyway).

 The soldering station had cost me just £39.05 but by the time I'd added a soldering iron stand, a wire wool tip cleaner, a set of assorted T12 tips and a Daniu FG-100 calibration thermometer, the whole order just topped the 76 quid mark. The order arrived on my doorstep just 8 days later from their Chinese warehouse (cheapest price option) and I have to say that it was money well spent, in spite of having to fettle not only the soldering station controller box itself but also that of the wiring in the 9501 handle :)

[EDIT 20191017-2]
 That 8 days delivery was either a lucky fluke or else the result of special 'Grooming' treatment to lull 1st time buyers into a false sense of optimism. Delivery times for BG typically range from a fortnight (if you're very lucky) through to 6 weeks or more (via express air delivery (in a cargo glider towed from the stern rail of a container ship???)). [END_EDIT]

 For anyone here who has ever hankered after an original Hakko T12/T15 soldering station but couldn't justify blowing some 250 to 300 dollars (nor even the 150 dollars of a 'cheap clone'), these KSGER units (all faults aside) represent a superior alternative at just a fraction the cost (around the 40 quid/60 dollar mark). I'd recommend a look at the recent youtube review and teardown videos that have been made over the past year on the KSGER T12 soldering station models if this has re-awakened anyone's interest in upgrading from a classic soldering iron setup.

[1] Worse in this case being those Weller soldering station units with a totally unprotected mains transformer inside - no user serviceable fuse of any sort, not even a thermal fuse embedded within the windings!  :wtf: As dangerous as the KSGER unit had been (mine is perfectly safe now!), that has not only one but two fuses!  >:D

[2] KSGER have made a bewildering array of variants of their T12 soldering station including ones with just a three digit seven segment display both in external psu/battery pack powered 'mini' versions along with different hardware/firmware versions of same, hence the distinction I made.

 Also, these can be bought in the form of self build kits at varying levels of complexity falling just short of requiring the DIY enthusiast to populate the controller board with smd parts and solder them up - they, afaik, are always supplied as a completed module ready to be wired up to the PSU and  five pin din soldering iron handle socket on the front panel. Incidentally, the version 3 firmware/hardware seems to be the hallmark of these kit versions rather than a later upgrade. The latest versions for the ready built units is currently at HW ver 2.1S and SW ver 2.10 as of this posting.

 Surprisingly, most of these kits are often sold at a higher price than the ready built units  :-// Even when they happen to be a little cheaper than a ready built unit, the tiny cost saving just isn't worth the hassle. You'll have enough DIY reassembly work making the PSU safe and rectifying the shoddy workmanship in the handle and plug with a ready built unit in any case but once you've put in that work, you'll have a soldering station to be proud of. >:D

JBG

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 30, 2019, 11:11:29 pm
I did wait with opening until I got a reply via the mail.
They asked me to look inside and indeed it was a loose connector.
The connector between mainboard and power supply.

I also looked at the 'ground cable' and apart from the mentioned lack of insulation level, it is also dangling on a single thread of the internal strings.
So that's going to be replaced like in the video and I will also add some shrink tube on the other mains joints just to be sure.

This ground wire is really a safety issue, since it can come loose quite ease during transport and touch one of the mains points.

The manufacturer also wrote this about the power supply:
Quote
Our power supply is + & - 13.5V and 5V, the current is 200mA.
I assume it is for all voltages.

 It did sound like a loose psu connector. I'm glad you were able to fix it at the behest of Feeltech support (presumably, no warranty voiding issues in this case).

 As far as the earth wire goes, that had been stolen out of the psu to main board ribbon cable by Feeltech's kludgery in the first place. If it were me, I'd be be reinstating it and looking to solder a 4K7R onto a convenient ground point on the main board and wiring the other end to the PE contact in the C14 socket in place of the bodged earth connection. This will drop the 90vac earth leakage on a 230v supply down to 250mV ac and attenuate the effect of the mains earth loop by some 40 to 50dB as well as suppress the HF switching noise that Feeltech's bodge had introduced onto the mains earth.

 The PSU is still a Class II smpsu which doesn't actually require such a safety earth connection anyway. However, unless Feeltech's customer support agree to such modification work being done, you might want to hold off to avoid immediately voiding your warranty with them in case it stops functioning due to a manufacturing defect outside of all the defects it already has. Give it time to  get beyond the "Infant Mortality" phase of the reliability curve before doing anything that will void the warranty (for what such Chinese Warranties are worth).

 Regarding that statement (from Feeltech themselves?) that the plus and minus twelve volt rails are now actually +/-13.5 volt rails, that rather suggests they've modified the transformer, possibly by reducing the turns count on the five volt secondary winding by one turn, to raise the 12 volt rails by another volt, neglecting to alter the silk screen printing by the connector to reflect this change. The extra volt or so would just about suffice to allow the THS3002i opamp to output a 24Vpp signal. It would neatly explain how they've managed to get an opamp with at least a 1.2v headroom specification to output a full 24Vpp out of a "+/-12 volt" supply.

 The original, unmodified psu in the FY6600 (and almost certainly that of the FY6800) were only managing 11.5 to 11.7 volts on the +/-12v rails. A common psu mod was to replace the cheap diodes on the 12v rails with proper high speed switching, low forward volt drop Shottky types and bump the 5v up by 5 to 10 percent for good measure  to raise the 11.5v to something like 12.7 volts (makes the LDO's on the main board run a little hotter though). In this case, it looks like Feeltech have done most, if not all of the work already.

JBG

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: TD-er on August 31, 2019, 08:10:38 am
Well, I did already replace the ground wire, since I'm not letting a flatcable wire hang on 1 thread of copper (??) next to mains power solder joints.
Warranty is maybe worth something, but not that much.
Also added shrink tube around the mains solder joints, just to be sure.

I did test the unit a bit last night and it does seem to work fine.
There is however a strange signal added to the output wave form, which can be seen best at the "DC waveform".
It does seem to be at the begin/end of the memory-cycle of the wave form.

Also there is quite a distinct noise pattern on top of the wave form, which does seem to come from the power supply itself.
Maybe later I will make a board using a traditional transformer and just the old fashioned diode bridge, capacitor and 78xx and 79xx.
Just like I did when I was 13 (30 years ago...)
Or could I add a 3D-printed cap over the power supply to support some aluminium foil to isolate the power supply (or the main board) ?
The noise is just strong enough to let my scope's edge trigger to swap the wave form every now and then (at 1V pp output)

Just have to clean up the desk a bit and attach ethernet to the scope to get some screen grabs.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on August 31, 2019, 08:25:39 am
I have received my FY6900 but am unable to get the supplied software to work.  I installed the software on a Win7 machine and it opens OK but does not seem to connect the the FY6900.  I am also looking for instructions on how to use the software and specifically how to create custom arbitrary waveforms.  Of course connecting to the FY6900 is the most important thing.

Dear Customer,
Can you connect to the software now? If it is still not possible, please check if the CH340 driver installation is normal.

Best regards,
FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on August 31, 2019, 02:24:55 pm
Well, I did already replace the ground wire, since I'm not letting a flatcable wire hang on 1 thread of copper (??) next to mains power solder joints.
Warranty is maybe worth something, but not that much.
Also added shrink tube around the mains solder joints, just to be sure.

 I know exactly where you're coming from - "Discretion (in this case) being the better part of valour." and all that.  ;)
 

I did test the unit a bit last night and it does seem to work fine.
There is however a strange signal added to the output wave form, which can be seen best at the "DC waveform".
It does seem to be at the begin/end of the memory-cycle of the wave form.


 A good candidate for which seems, imo, to be the result of the earth loop introduced by that direct connection to the protective earth.


Also there is quite a distinct noise pattern on top of the wave form, which does seem to come from the power supply itself.

 The high voltage switching noise in such smpsu boards can be very hard to keep out of the rest of the circuit boards being powered.
 

Maybe later I will make a board using a traditional transformer and just the old fashioned diode bridge, capacitor and 78xx and 79xx.
Just like I did when I was 13 (30 years ago...)


 You and me both. ;) Mind you, I was never a great fan of this idea once I started building my own IBM desktop PCs in the mid 80s and could handle the very lightweight 200W PSU boxes with an ease impossible with an Old Skool analogue unit weighing some 15 Kg or more (mostly due to the required 300VA mains transformer).
 

Or could I add a 3D-printed cap over the power supply to support some aluminium foil to isolate the power supply (or the main board) ?
The noise is just strong enough to let my scope's edge trigger to swap the wave form every now and then (at 1V pp output)

 At best, that would only screen against the electric field component. It wouldn't do much, if anything at all, for the magnetic field component which will couple interference currents into any wiring or circuit traces. Containing such electromagnetic energy within the confines of a shielding box around such smpsu boards is a lot harder than it looks.  :(
 

Just have to clean up the desk a bit and attach ethernet to the scope to get some screen grabs.

 Those will be interesting to see and a handy "Before" reference for when you grab another bunch of "After" screen shots after trying out my suggestion of inserting a "Drain Resistor" between the main board ground rail and the PE connection in the C14 mains socket. >:D

 Regarding the "Analogue" psu idea, the major downside is the need to warm up all those 78/79 regulators and deal with the extra heat load in the box. If you use a good quality "R" transformer to all but eliminate the significant contribution you'd otherwise see with a cheap 'n' cheerful Chinese transformer, you're left with (essentially) just the rectifier losses and the regulator losses. The rectifier losses are trivial in this case (an amp's worth accounting for around 1.5W in a bridge rectifier at 50/60Hz).

 It's all those pesky 78/79 regulators that are the main problem in this case. However, thanks to the wonder of modern switching converter technology, these can be replaced with DC-DC converter based drop-in replacements which typically offer conversion efficiencies ranging from a (very) low 70% to a more reasonable 90 to 95 percent, even as high as 97 to 98 percent with the very best DC-DC converter modules.

 You still have some reduced level of switching noise to deal with (typically 30mV ripple at a fixed 1.2MHz on a 5vdc output dc-dc converter module) but almost totally absent the troublesome common mode switching noise of the classic mains voltage smpsu.

 Ripple on the supply rail at a fixed 1.2MHz (or even higher frequency) is a lot easier to filter out, especially when you don't have any significant levels of common mode noise to deal with as well. That's the theory at any rate but substituting all the Old Skool 78/79 regulators with dc-dc converter modules looks a very promising way to go (almost all of the benefits of an analogue PSU but without the worst excesses of waste heat such supply technology is infamous for).

 I've got a couple of these mini dc-dc converter modules on a ten quid Banggod order that's due to finally arrive in just over a week's time (it didn't qualify for the more expedited £76- order I'd put in for the KSGER T12 soldering station and friends which arrived just over a fortnight ago).

 I'm planning on using the 5v only output one (with a <30mV ripple specification) in my basic GPSDO that I'm currently very slowly assembling into a neat little aluminium extruded enclosure. I have high hopes that this will not only avoid the need to clamp the heatsink tab of a 7805 regulator to said enclosure but also allow me to power it off not just 9v wallwarts but also 6 to 24 volt wallwarts with complete impunity.

 Also, of course, I will be testing out how easy (or hard) it will be to attenuate the residual <30mV ripple to a vanishingly small <10mV or even lower with simple LPF filtering using tiny Ls and Cs (and some Rs - unwanted energy has to go somewhere - better it's dissipated by a resistor in the filter itself in a conversion to low temperature, thermal energy rather than escape "into the wild" unaltered  :-DD). I rather think this will be the optimum solution to a source of "clean" (if not green) energy to power all these FY66/68/6900 signal generators .  ;)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: TD-er on August 31, 2019, 08:45:15 pm
Not entirely sure yet what may make the difference here.
Last night I tested with the included cables and had not connected the FY6900 to the computer via USB.

Now I did use some proper (well, less flimsy/cheap) coax cables and the FY6900 is connected via USB.
The noise does seem a lot less apparent.
For the screenshots I did enable "persistent colors" to color the noise.

Please note that I could not set the probe as being 1x, so you have to divide the voltages yourself by 10.   (edit: I did need to have a better look, the 1x was off screen and I just had to take a better look and some coffee)
The screenshots are with 1 MHz frequency set on the FY6900 and 0.5V Ampl.
There is no offset or phase set. The pattern for the square wave apparently does not start at the same position as the sine.
At 1 MHz the phase shift is 9 degree (18 degree at 2 MHz, 27 deg at 3 MHz), so there is some strange (fixed delay) offset.

I also added a screengrab of the strange spikes when showing "DC waveform"
This does look like some 50'ish kHz signal, so it may very well be from the power supply.


By the way, I also used the FY6900 PC Software.
Apart from the most horrible GUI design ever and really bad choice of fonts, is it quite useful.
See the screenshots and a hand drawn waveform.

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on September 01, 2019, 12:59:46 am
Not entirely sure yet what may make the difference here.
Last night I tested with the included cables and had not connected the FY6900 to the computer via USB.

Now I did use some proper (well, less flimsy/cheap) coax cables and the FY6900 is connected via USB.
The noise does seem a lot less apparent.

BNC connectors can be notoriously unreliable with regard to their ground contact resistance. The amount of common mode interference being injected into the signal generator's ground which appears on the centre pin connection can vary dramatically as you manipulate the poorer quality connectors.

 The usb ground connection, whilst still relying on an earth loop between the PC and the 'scope, may well be providing a more consistent, if still a little polluted with ground loop induced noise, connection of lower impedance to shunt the bnc ground return impedance which may be helping to reduce the noise in this case.
 

For the screenshots I did enable "persistent colors" to color the noise.

Please note that I could not set the probe as being 1x, so you have to divide the voltages yourself by 10.   (edit: I did need to have a better look, the 1x was off screen and I just had to take a better look and some coffee)
The screenshots are with 1 MHz frequency set on the FY6900 and 0.5V Ampl.


 A 0.5V amplitude setting isn't the best choice with this signal generator since I'm pretty certain this is the threshold voltage level where the attenuator is switched in. In the 66 and 68 models, this is an 86 ohm rather than the 50 ohm impedance attenuator it's supposed to be. Whether this same Skoolboy Howler has been perpetrated in the 69 model, no one has as yet completed the test to determine this.

 If you're testing without the 50 ohm cable terminating resistor (which, from your description appears to be the case), it won't make much difference with a short half metre cable at 1MHz since Feeltech's "fix" was simply to compensate for this in the firmware (but only for the Hi Z case - it can't possibly compensate the error in both cases).

 You need to select an amplitude greater than 0.5V if you wish to avoid having this questionable attenuator switched into circuit -  the 5.01V setting is sufficient to ensure this happy state.
 

There is no offset or phase set. The pattern for the square wave apparently does not start at the same position as the sine.
At 1 MHz the phase shift is 9 degree (18 degree at 2 MHz, 27 deg at 3 MHz), so there is some strange (fixed delay) offset.

I also added a screengrab of the strange spikes when showing "DC waveform"
This does look like some 50'ish kHz signal, so it may very well be from the power supply.

  Such switching spikes are difficult to observe on a 'scope on account of the drifting frequency due to variations in the load on such smpsus. You normally need to capture it in a single manually triggered sweep (a feature at which modern DSOs excel). If you're examining such artefacts on a DC output rail, this is also where the 'scope's AC coupling feature comes to the fore.


By the way, I also used the FY6900 PC Software.
Apart from the most horrible GUI design ever and really bad choice of fonts, is it quite useful.
See the screenshots and a hand drawn waveform.

 I haven't got my 'scope set up on the bench due to lack of working space at the moment otherwise I'd have tried the same tests to compare. However, istr seeing similar levels of smpsu switching interference at sub 1 volt settings some time back so I think what you're seeing is typical of Feeltech's "Finest".  ::)

 As for the freehand waveforms, I've never tried using the included software in the past nine months since I purchased mine from a UK based seller last November. I haven't bothered largely because it can be a bit of a faff setting up the USB pass-through on my winXP VM for something that's been a low priority so far.

 As well as some unfinished business with that 86 ohm attenuator (now a 45 ohm one since my last attempt to put it right) I've still got one remaining feature to add to my 6600 before I'm ready to experiment with the software and the usb interface (I'm going to add a socket for an external 10MHz reference to be supplied by an as yet unbuilt GPSDO).

 Also, I may replace the existing PSU board with an "Analogue PSU" based on dc-dc converters in place of the classic 78/79 regulator ICs to hopefully eliminate that troublesome common mode switching noise injected by the high voltage switching transients on the primary of the transformer into the low voltage secondary windings.

 The residual ripple on the dc-dc converter modules' outputs should be a lot easier to suppress with a bunch of small LPFs than the inescapable high voltage transients inside of a typical smpsu which not only conduct common mode interference into the main board via the wired connections but also directly irradiate it  as well.  >:(

 However, all that is for a future project. I really, really should have bought those cheap 6v carbon zinc lantern batteries that I spotted in Wilkinsons for just a couple of quid each yesterday to make up the negative 12v rail to complement the 12AH SLA I'll be using to power the positive 12v rail and a 7805 regulator by which to test the generator sans that pesky smpsu board before I start ordering parts for my analogue/switching chimera of a power supply. It's something I've had a mind to do for at least the past six months but, like many things I have plans for, it's been on a rather crowded 'back burner' since like almost  'forever'. :-[

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: excitedbox on September 01, 2019, 04:37:14 pm
Mine is sitting at customs in Frankfurt right now (since the 27th) waiting to be released. It spend 10 days sitting at the Airport in China waiting on it´s flight. But with any luck it will be here on Monday.

I hate always having to wait so long for shipping. I get so impatient  |O :scared:

 I presume that you meant the 27th of this month. That's hardly any delay at all!  :-DD  How about a 99p tracked order for ten 74hc14s that's been sitting in Hong Kong customs since the 1st of June (just two days after being shipped out of China by the seller) and is, afaik but no longer care about, still stuck in that black hole. ::)

 I'd finally had enough of all the waiting so got Ebay to 'resolve the issue' and the seller has reimbursed my 99 pence. I'd ordered half a dozen of these ICs from a UK based Chinaman at the exorbitant price of almost three quid about three weeks ago and they'd arrived just 8 or 9 days later.

JBG

Yes I am still waiting on a 4 Euro order from the beginning of June. Just a couple of i2c and spi expanders and an h11 load cell pcb. and it stopped updating tracking after reaching the shipping center in china.

I don´t recommend using Banggood after all the problems I have had with them. Only good thing is that if you complain they refund the money and let you keep the item in most cases. I got a Aneng Q1 multimeter with a cracked screen for free that way (27 Euros saved). But A usb microscope I paid 29 Euros for was a really cheap model with the wrong specs in the description. I ended up not complaining because at some point the time spent is worth more than the refund.

Banggood also has listings for colorful plant seeds (neon blue strawberries etc.) that are obviously fake and photo shopped and even after being reported they don´t remove them.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: TD-er on September 01, 2019, 06:01:30 pm
[...]
 A 0.5V amplitude setting isn't the best choice with this signal generator since I'm pretty certain this is the threshold voltage level where the attenuator is switched in. In the 66 and 68 models, this is an 86 ohm rather than the 50 ohm impedance attenuator it's supposed to be. Whether this same Skoolboy Howler has been perpetrated in the 69 model, no one has as yet completed the test to determine this.
I did set it to a low value on purpose to see if the board could pick up the noise I saw before.

When switching from 0.5V to a higher amplitude, you hear a relais clicking, so it is very well possible an extra attenuator is switched in/on.
Noise levels are not better noticable when set at an amplitude of 1V.
Quote
If you're testing without the 50 ohm cable terminating resistor (which, from your description appears to be the case), it won't make much difference with a short half metre cable at 1MHz since Feeltech's "fix" was simply to compensate for this in the firmware (but only for the Hi Z case - it can't possibly compensate the error in both cases).
The first test I did was both with the included BNC-BNC cable and with the included BNC->crocodile to my normal probe.
Both showed significant noise.

Quote
You need to select an amplitude greater than 0.5V if you wish to avoid having this questionable attenuator switched into circuit -  the 5.01V setting is sufficient to ensure this happy state.
I can test again with higher voltages.

Quote


There is no offset or phase set. The pattern for the square wave apparently does not start at the same position as the sine.
At 1 MHz the phase shift is 9 degree (18 degree at 2 MHz, 27 deg at 3 MHz), so there is some strange (fixed delay) offset.

I also added a screengrab of the strange spikes when showing "DC waveform"
This does look like some 50'ish kHz signal, so it may very well be from the power supply.
Such switching spikes are difficult to observe on a 'scope on account of the drifting frequency due to variations in the load on such smpsus. You normally need to capture it in a single manually triggered sweep (a feature at which modern DSOs excel). If you're examining such artefacts on a DC output rail, this is also where the 'scope's AC coupling feature comes to the fore.
Will do, grab a single run.


Quote
As for the freehand waveforms, I've never tried using the included software in the past nine months since I purchased mine from a UK based seller last November. I haven't bothered largely because it can be a bit of a faff setting up the USB pass-through on my winXP VM for something that's been a low priority so far.
I thought that maybe such a user definable pattern can be useful in making some error state reproducible.
You can define up-to 32 of those patterns (8k per pattern)
So for that it is quite useful to have the software.
Only nasty thing is, as long as the USB cable is plugged in, my ESP flash tool keeps trying to flash to that port (and fails). So I have to remove the cable when flashing to ESP nodes.

Quote
Also, I may replace the existing PSU board with an "Analogue PSU" based on dc-dc converters in place of the classic 78/79 regulator ICs to hopefully eliminate that troublesome common mode switching noise injected by the high voltage switching transients on the primary of the transformer into the low voltage secondary windings.

 The residual ripple on the dc-dc converter modules' outputs should be a lot easier to suppress with a bunch of small LPFs than the inescapable high voltage transients inside of a typical smpsu which not only conduct common mode interference into the main board via the wired connections but also directly irradiate it  as well.  >:(
The reason I mentioned those linear ones was because of the effect of a switching DC/DC converter which I thought of replacing.
But I guess the spikes from a switching power supply from mains to DC may be more present indeed than those generated on little DC/DC units.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Andreas on September 01, 2019, 07:13:04 pm
Here's my quick overview. Let me know if anyone needs anything specific covering in more detail

For me it would be interesting if 2 annoying "features" regarding AM-Modulation from FY6800 are still there on the FY6900.

- When AM-Modulation is switched on and the carrier frequency (main channel) is changed by USB-Interface (with delivered software or by terminal program) then on the FY6800 the AM modulation is switched off on each frequency step.

- AM modulation % is done wrongly on the FY6800:
  For 80% AM I would expect 20% minimum amplitude and 180% maximum amplitude compared to AM switched off = 100% amplitude.
  The FY6800 outputs 100% and 20% amplitude when 80% AM is dialed which is in fact only 66% AM =(100%-20%)/(100%+20%)
  instead of (180%-20%)/(180% + 20%) = 80%

see also here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fy6800-dds-signal-generator-questions/msg2502990/#msg2502990 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fy6800-dds-signal-generator-questions/msg2502990/#msg2502990)

with best regards

Andreas
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: bdunham7 on September 01, 2019, 08:35:59 pm
Here's my quick overview. Let me know if anyone needs anything specific covering in more detail

For me it would be interesting if 2 annoying "features" regarding AM-Modulation from FY6800 are still there on the FY6900.

- When AM-Modulation is switched on and the carrier frequency (main channel) is changed by USB-Interface (with delivered software or by terminal program) then on the FY6800 the AM modulation is switched off on each frequency step.

- AM modulation % is done wrongly on the FY6800:
  For 80% AM I would expect 20% minimum amplitude and 180% maximum amplitude compared to AM switched off = 100% amplitude.
  The FY6800 outputs 100% and 20% amplitude when 80% AM is dialed which is in fact only 66% AM =(100%-20%)/(100%+20%)
  instead of (180%-20%)/(180% + 20%) = 80%

see also here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fy6800-dds-signal-generator-questions/msg2502990/#msg2502990 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/fy6800-dds-signal-generator-questions/msg2502990/#msg2502990)

with best regards

Andreas

I didn't check the first issue, but I can verify that the second is unchanged.  Modulation leaves the high level unchanged and the lower level is (100% - mod%).  Easy enough to understand, but not in accordance with convention. 
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: thomastheo on October 11, 2019, 01:55:22 pm
I just got my fy6900 in the mail. After skimming forum posts on previous fy6600 and fy6800 models, am I right to assume they use a 50 MHz clock for their FPGA? This one uses a 10 MHz oscillator, which would make a tcxo/ocxo upgrade or external reference input much easier to add!
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 12, 2019, 11:07:50 pm
I just got my fy6900 in the mail. After skimming forum posts on previous fy6600 and fy6800 models, am I right to assume they use a 50 MHz clock for their FPGA? This one uses a 10 MHz oscillator, which would make a tcxo/ocxo upgrade or external reference input much easier to add!

 That's an interesting twist to the tale. ::)

 I wonder if they're using an NB3N502 14MHz to 190MHz PLL Clock Multiplier chip with a 10MHz xtal resonator or another cheap smd XO chip? The 3N502 can be driven from an external clock source ranging from as low as 2MHz to as high as 50MHz or else generate its own clock with XTAL resonators from 5 to 27MHz which in both cases can be multiplied up by factors of 2, 2.5, 3, 3.333, 4 and 5 to provide an ultra low jitter clock output so it's certainly a contender as a 50MHz clock source which I believe is a fairly common FPGA clock frequency.

 However they've made the change from a 50MHz smd XO clock to a 10MHz XO, it should simplify an OCXO or TCXO upgrade. No need to add a 3N502 in place of the shitty little 50MHz smd XO chip as we've had to do with the preceding models in this case. ;)

JBG

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: thomastheo on October 13, 2019, 12:26:07 pm
It looked like a regular smd XO, with 10 MHz going straight into the fpga, but I could be mistaken. I only opened it up to have a quick glance at the internals before daring to plug it in. This turned out to be a good idea, because the cover screw had inconveniently drilled itself straight through the SMPS ribbon cable, pretty much shorting together the +-13.5v rails!

Other things I noticed were the NEC relays, with date codes ranging from 1997-2004. Three of the four had what looked like some kind of conformal coating on them, so I suspect these werent even NOS relays :D

Regardless, still a bargain, but quite hilarious. I'll have a closer look at the main board next time I have it open... when I replace the power supply.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on October 14, 2019, 06:18:10 pm
It looked like a regular smd XO, with 10 MHz going straight into the fpga, but I could be mistaken. I only opened it up to have a quick glance at the internals before daring to plug it in. This turned out to be a good idea, because the cover screw had inconveniently drilled itself straight through the SMPS ribbon cable, pretty much shorting together the +-13.5v rails!

Other things I noticed were the NEC relays, with date codes ranging from 1997-2004. Three of the four had what looked like some kind of conformal coating on them, so I suspect these werent even NOS relays :D

Regardless, still a bargain, but quite hilarious. I'll have a closer look at the main board next time I have it open... when I replace the power supply.

 Just when you thought they couldn't get any cheaper! Their buyer (buying department) must be expert(s) at sniffing out bargains in the component supply chain. Perhaps they'd located a dirt cheap source of 10MHz XO and clock multiplier chips (not necessarily those NB3N502 ICs I mentioned) or perhaps an FPGA version that can be clocked with 10MHz rather than the more typical 50MHz - who knows how the inscrutable Chinese mind works?. :-\

 Incidentally, are those +/-13.5v rails marked as such, or was it just what voltages you were seeing whilst the unit was delivering 20Vpp into 50 ohm dummy loads? Also, did you take the opportunity to repair the vandalism Feeltech had perpetrated in stealing one of the two ground return wires out of the ribbon cable in order to provide a hard connection to the PE terminal on that BFO C14 mains connector?

 This latter act of vandalism really ought to be remedied, preferably by tripling up the one remaining ground return wire and patching out the missing wire similarly and, for good measure, remove the resulting ground loop issue by inserting a 3K3R or 10KR in series with the PE connection. The class II smpsu board used doesn't actually require a hard protective earth connection and even a 10KR "static drain" resistor is sufficient to knock the 90vac half mains live voltage ESD hazard of a 240v mains supply down to just half a volt ac or less.

 At least one member who'd bought an FY6800 was saved the trouble and embarrassment of returning it with a "DC Offset fault" after heeding advice to break the earth loop (in his case, he'd chosen to disconnect the 'scope ground) and retest. The FY6600 hadn't suffered this ground loop issue but the half mains live 'touch voltage' presented an ESD hazard if you forgot to connect the BNC ground before connecting to the test point of your DUT (and disconnected it after disconnecting from the test point).

 It turned out that the solution was simply to upgrade the 2 pole C8 connector to a 3 pole C6 or C14 connector to wire the PE to the main board ground via a 10KR 'drain resistor' to suppress this half mains live 'touch voltage' and neatly sidestep this ground loop issue.

 It's quite clear that Feeltech's decision to upgrade from the C8 to a C14 mains connector on the FY6800 model must have been a response to all the moaning about the ESD hazard in the FY6600 EEVBlog thread. Unfortunately, they chose to do the absolute minimum possible to implement a solution to address this complaint about the presence of this ESD hazard by totally ignoring all and every "unintended consequence" of hard earthing the BNC ground points and reduction of ground return wires in the smpsu board to main board ribbon cable connector from a barely adequate count of two to a woefully inadequate count of one.

 That ribbon connector could have done with an upgrade from a 6 pole single row to a 12 pole dual row connector to add another 6 ground wires to the circuit to reduce PSU noise and ripple getting onto the main board supply rails. Reducing the ground return wire count would have been the last thing any sane manufacturer would have even considered, let alone implement. :palm:

 Feeltech (FeelElec) aren't the only Chinese manufacturer of bargain priced test, measurement and electronic tools who show such blatant disregard for any modicum of quality in their products. KSGER who make all those otherwise excellent T12/T15 tip based soldering stations are just as bad (and even worse if you rate the electrocution risk higher than the ESD risk).

 I bought one of these cheap alternatives to Hakko's rather flawed FX-951 soldering station two months ago and, as with the FY6600, it rather benefited from some basic fettling and general remedial work. It is now as safe as any normal electrical appliance made by The West (excepting for some models of Weller soldering stations  ::)) can be expected to be and no longer at risk of its controller succumbing to soldering iron handle wiring faults, typical of "Chinese Quality Control".

 It's considered SOP to take such mains powered Chinese Marvels of Technology apart as you did, in order to check for and (almost inevitably) make safe for "Human Consumption" and 'fitter for purpose'. :)

 I was only expressing an idle curiosity in the matter seeing as how Feeltech appear to have been taking note of the various moans and groans and modifications that had been discussed in the earlier FY6600 thread (a "Standing on the shoulders of giants" effect) where the use of the 3N502 had been suggested by one of the members to Arthur Dent who had been proposing to fit a 10MHz OCXO to his FY6600 at the time (and has long since done so) and from which I eventually[1] took inspiration to do likewise after having already replaced the shitty little 50MHz smd XO chip with a 50MHz 0.1ppm rated TCXO driver board I'd mounted well clear of the 50 deg C environment of the original on-board XO chip.

 Having employed the 3N502 to allow me the use of a CQE branded 12v 10MHz OCXO in my own FY6600 project and using another one in my current DIY GPSDO project to make use of a 5v 13MHz CQE branded OCXO (74HC86 clock doubler to 26MHz into a 74193 (original old skool TTL!) divide by 13 to drive the 3N502 with the lowest allowable 2MHz input frequency clock) to generate an ultra low jitter 10Mz square wave, that 3N502 was rather on my mind when I saw your post. :)

 As I've already admitted, it was just idle curiosity on my part so there's no hurry in answering that question. That's not to say I wouldn't be interested in what you do eventually discover as I'm sure others would likewise be interested in what you may care to divulge about Feeltech's (FeelElec) latest and greatest toy signal generator.

[1] I rather naively thought at the time, that this OCXO mod was just a tad OTT but eventually realised the value of such accuracy and stability once I discovered that I was never likely to improve on the +/-30ppb I was getting out of the 50MHz TCXO board. As good an improvement as it was over the original smd XO chip's best +/-20ppm effort at (in)stability, I had developed a new found desire for sub ppb accuracy which nothing less than an OCXO could satisfy. ::)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: wadim207 on October 17, 2019, 11:30:29 am
When testing the functions of the generator FY6900, it was found impossible to connect to the computer. When connected to different computers, the device is not detected by windows 7, new devices do not appear in the device lists. When you connect another device with USB-SERIAL CH340 on these computers, it is recognized and connected. Installing the ch340/CH341 driver of different versions did not help. Help solve the problem or fix it.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on October 19, 2019, 08:47:43 am
When testing the functions of the generator FY6900, it was found impossible to connect to the computer. When connected to different computers, the device is not detected by windows 7, new devices do not appear in the device lists. When you connect another device with USB-SERIAL CH340 on these computers, it is recognized and connected. Installing the ch340/CH341 driver of different versions did not help. Help solve the problem or fix it.

Dear Customer,
Our technicians are helping you solve the problem on AliExpress.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: ToKreTu on October 25, 2019, 10:41:07 am
Hello I’m new in this forum as a contributor.
I’ve just received my FY6900 and I’m very happy with it so far - everything is working as expected.  After thorough investigations on the internet I came to the conclusion that at the moment there is no better signal generator on the market for that price.

@feelelec
Only one point is confusing me and I need clarification.  It’s about the input signal level for the Counter.  There are three different instructions concerning the Counter Input: 

1.   When entering the counter menu by pressing the COUNTER button the Display shows the Message “Warning: Maximum Safe Input Voltage: 5V AC+DC” (picture 1). What does that mean and what does “Safe Input” exactly mean? Does it mean that the device can get damaged when the Input Voltage is higher? Or does it only mean that the measurement result can get inaccurate?
2.   In the User Guide on page 28, picture 2-1 the max. safe input voltage is given as “20V AC+DC” and in the box at the bottom of this page it is only 5V but now it speaks about Trig. IN instead of Counter IN (picture 2). This is very confusing! Again: What means “safe”?
3.   On the other hand the Technical Specifications in the User Guide allow an “Input Voltage Range” of 1Vpp~20Vpp (page 43, External Measurement; see my picture 3 below).  And that is what I am actually expecting of a frequency counter!

Please confirm my expectation or, if you cannot, please explain why the input voltage for the Counter is limited to only 5V.
One point is for sure: The User Guide and the real device (firmware V1.2) do not correspond.

Thank you, Thomas
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Kleinstein on October 25, 2019, 11:24:40 am
The maximum safe voltage normally is the level one can be sure not to cause a damage. The actual level where damage starts may be considerably higher. Another point is that there may be a higher level for short time.

The different voltage levels are indeed confusing. Part of this could be due to translation.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on October 26, 2019, 02:40:40 am

1.   When entering the counter menu by pressing the COUNTER button the Display shows the Message “Warning: Maximum Safe Input Voltage: 5V AC+DC” (picture 1). What does that mean and what does “Safe Input” exactly mean? Does it mean that the device can get damaged when the Input Voltage is higher? Or does it only mean that the measurement result can get inaccurate?
2.   In the User Guide on page 28, picture 2-1 the max. safe input voltage is given as “20V AC+DC” and in the box at the bottom of this page it is only 5V but now it speaks about Trig. IN instead of Counter IN (picture 2). This is very confusing! Again: What means “safe”?
3.   On the other hand the Technical Specifications in the User Guide allow an “Input Voltage Range” of 1Vpp~20Vpp (page 43, External Measurement; see my picture 3 below).  And that is what I am actually expecting of a frequency counter!


Dear Customer,
Thank you very much for your discovery.
The safe input voltage "20V AC+DC" on the instruction manual is correct.
The display on the machine is wrong and our engineers will amend it.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: WaveyDipole on October 30, 2019, 05:02:10 pm
Is there any difference between the FeelElec and KKmoon branded versions except for the price (KKmoon is around 10GPB cheaper)? They appear to be the same re-branded unit? Quality? Earlier firmware?

Regarding the firmware, can it be upgraded?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on October 31, 2019, 03:25:38 am
Is there any difference between the FeelElec and KKmoon branded versions except for the price (KKmoon is around 10GPB cheaper)? They appear to be the same re-branded unit? Quality? Earlier firmware?

Regarding the firmware, can it be upgraded?

Dear Customer,
KKmoon is our agent, you can purchase from our store or KKmoon store.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: WaveyDipole on November 04, 2019, 06:50:25 pm
My KKmoon branded unit arrived today and seems to be in good working order. I haven't looked inside yet, but there was no appreciable voltage or current on the BNC connectors. A quick test of functions and waveforms shows all is well. I did note in earlier posts th problem regarding the amplitude voltage display and the observation regarding the control knob. My unit does have the amplitude voltage display problem and I agree that the control knob is indeed a little fiddly, but does work and is only to be expected for the price. I will probably replace it tjough. I can't comment on the power supply yet, but this has been well covered already.

I was able to perform a quick test of the software on Windows 7 Pro and I had no problem getting this to work. The CH340 drivers were already installed so I didn’t have to go through that step. I have only looked at it only from a remote control perspective. I also managed to get the software to work in Linux under Wine. A little configuration in Wine was required in order to connect with the serial port, but otherwise the software seemed to connect and work. There was one error during installation (unregistered et40.dll) which I need to investigate further.

The FY6900 software lists 16 ports under 'Port Connect', so a port needed to be selected from this range. However, in Linux a USB serial port is mapped to something like /dev/ttyUSB0. On my machine, Wine, in turn, maps this to com33 by creating a symbolic link in ~/.wine/dosdevices.

In order to get around this, one option is to manually create the symbolic link for the required port. The downside is that Wine automatically refreshes the links back to their default state when an application is launched. This means that the symbolic link had to be created every time and after the FY6900 software was launched, otherwise Wine would just reset it and the software would try to connect to an inactive port. Fortunately there is a better way.

It is possible to override the serial ports mappings that are created automatically by Wine. This is quite simple and can be done simply by a registry entry per port. Full details can be found here:

https://wiki.winehq.org/Wine_User%27s_Guide#Serial_and_Parallel_Ports

This method has the advantage that the chosen port is mapped automatically each time Wine is started and no manual work is required. Since I am using more than one USB serial device, I created three entries to re-map com7, com8, and com9 to /dev/ttyUSB0, /dev/ttyUSB1 and /dev/ttyUSB2. Of course, if you have only one serial device, then it is sufficient to map just the one port, and any port from the FY6900 software list can be chosen. All I need to know is which /dev/ttyUSBx port the FY6900 device is mapped to in Linux and then select the corresponding com port (7-9) in Wine. If the FY6900 remains plugged in to the USB port, then the last used serial port will automatically be used when the software is re-started.

If I can work out the protocols it uses to send commands and data, then it should be possible to create scripts
to set up the FY6900 and run tests, or even write a native Linux program. At some point I will have a proper look at the inside, but from my brief look, the unit does work, is the 60MHz version (PY6900-60M, version 1.3) and seems more than adequate for hobbyist use. I would like to know, incidentally, whether version 1.3 is a current version of the firmware? Does anyone have any information on firmware versions?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on November 06, 2019, 05:04:38 am
If I can work out the protocols it uses to send commands and data, then it should be possible to create scripts
to set up the FY6900 and run tests, or even write a native Linux program. At some point I will have a proper look at the inside, but from my brief look, the unit does work, is the 60MHz version (PY6900-60M, version 1.3) and seems more than adequate for hobbyist use. I would like to know, incidentally, whether version 1.3 is a current version of the firmware? Does anyone have any information on firmware versions?

Dear customer,
Our latest version of the firmware is 1.3.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: v0ltair3 on November 06, 2019, 03:47:17 pm
Dear FeelElec,

I understand your effort to come closer to the community and that was one the key reasons why I decided to take the risk and to order one. I understand there might be some technical flaws but I assume it's due to imposed restrictions when trying to positioning such a product in the under 100$ price tag.

As a hobbyist, it's hard to find the a use case where I would spend more than that on a signal generator, my purpose is really to learn about electronics and this kind of equipment helps me grasp and visualize some key theoretical concepts.

I find it also quite interesting when the community of REAL electronics engineers or serious hobbyist hack into it and find ways to improve them, this is in fact another way to learn as doing it so, forces you to understand some other concepts of what are you really improving (and eventually a way for you to sell a few more).

So if you allow me to provide some feedback:

1 - Always keep a positive and constructive attitude towards the community, I'm am sure that others like me will use it as an argument to select your brand VS others.

2 - Keep your website neat and up to date regarding your products. I'm sure there are a ton of potential customers that aren't aware of this forum, let alone this topic, so your site is the only window between both. And nowadays there's no reason why you couldn't have a gorgeous website for a very very small amount of money.

Example, you just stated that rev. 1.3 of the firmware was released, how can I update my own ? (it has version 1.2), your website shall have a support area for each one of your products with product documentation, latest firmware updates with respective release notes (doesn't have to be very extensive).

3 - Allow feedback for new features or bugs for coming firmware updates, having the community telling you exactly what they expect from your products, even on this segment, its a very inexpensive and powerful tool (I'm on the product business myself, although in software) and can make your product sales cycle last for years....

Example, I would really like to have a way to send a single pulse while I'm playing with logical circuits.

Thank you,
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: WaveyDipole on November 09, 2019, 08:03:21 pm
Further to being able to run fy6900.exe under wine, it seems that one some Linux/wine installations the application might show the form labels with small squares instead of characters. The main menu and text fields will be OK. It seems the problem may be related to a missing TrueType font called DroidSansFallBack.ttf. The file can be downloaded here:

https://android.googlesource.com/platform/frameworks/base/+/master/data/fonts/DroidSansFallback.ttf

It should be placed in ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/Fonts, or the corresponding path for your wine prefix. It can also be placed in /usr/share/fonts/truetype/Droid. The former is probably preferable, but either seems to work.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: v0ltair3 on November 13, 2019, 10:02:19 pm
Dear FeelElec,

Mind addressing the firmware upgrade procedure instructions and release notes ?

thank you in advance,
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on November 14, 2019, 09:02:40 am
Example, I would really like to have a way to send a single pulse while I'm playing with logical circuits.

Dear Customer,
Thank you for your suggestions. As for your requirements, the instrument supports the output of single or multiple pulses under the trigger function.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: v0ltair3 on November 14, 2019, 09:30:19 am
Awesome... I've likely missed something on the manual, need to RFTM once again :)

Could you point me in the right direction for the upgrade procedure ?

Thank you in advance,
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on November 21, 2019, 06:19:53 am
Awesome... I've likely missed something on the manual, need to RFTM once again :)

Could you point me in the right direction for the upgrade procedure ?

Thank you in advance,

Dear Customer,
Is your firmware 1.3 version about this instrument?

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: v0ltair3 on November 21, 2019, 08:58:47 am
Dear FeeElec,

No, I'm running an older version of the firmware (1.2) ... early adopters tend to suffer with more frequent updates, but I am OK with that.

Do you have the binaries and respective release notes published anywhere?

Thank you,
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: thomastheo on November 21, 2019, 02:21:36 pm
Yes, I too would very much like to know how to install the latest firmware.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on November 23, 2019, 05:32:23 am
Dear FeeElec,

No, I'm running an older version of the firmware (1.2) ... early adopters tend to suffer with more frequent updates, but I am OK with that.

Do you have the binaries and respective release notes published anywhere?

Thank you,

Dear Customer,
We didn't publish the files about upgrade V1.3.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Labrat101 on November 23, 2019, 12:19:52 pm
Hi , I bought The FY6800 from Banggood .
The signal output on all the wave forms looked like there was an earth quake shimmering and Jitter
The Power supply caps failed after an hour.  even after replacing with low esr it still was unstable and poor quality.
I did send and email with Photo's to your support and never got any reply . Banggood did give me a small refund to cover some cost of repair $10 . I spent over $60 to get working So SO.

I had to completely replace power supply . The Xtal was really bad quality replaced it with new TCXO 50MHz 0.01ppm.  The output ops I had to replaced as the smp had damaged it . +_ 16.73V  = too high for the op amps.
Your spec sheet said the square wave up to 25Mhz  but did not mention that the Jitter over 5MHz was Bad.
The square wave is only stable @ clock multiples . every thing else is touch and Go.
Also the voltage amplitude is not accurate ie 5.000 volt is 5.4* volt 
Also added a laminar air flow for cooling. and cleared the fake air slots so they let air though.
Over all if it was not for this forum it would be only good for a Door stop.
Even after all the repairs It still is no were close to your spec sheet.  :bullshit:

So sorry to say there is no way I would buy the New FY6900 . The Case looks really nice .
But does it have the same Poor SMP!!  and Jitter due to bugs etc.
Or is it just now a nicer Door stopper.

The one thing good about the FY6800 is that it is ease to use..  Just place by open door.  :-DD
How about a Firmware update to solve phase shift on the square wave and others the ramp & stair are horrible
ramp has bad over shoot.

Enlighten me whats under the hood ..  :-DD



Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Adrian_Arg. on November 23, 2019, 05:57:52 pm
I had a FY6600, it stopped working, they never answered me an email, then I bought a FY6900 60Mhz, and I was lucky to be able to sell it, for more money than I paid, and I bought a FY 6900 20 Mhz, I believe which is a signal generator and ideal for a hobbyist like me, who only occupy it 5 or 6 times a month, it is not worth investing in a 60Mhz, for that it would go for a rigol or siglent.

-It is not upgradeable, although it has the button combination for update.
- bad source.
- It has no cooler.
- Altera chip does not have a heatsink.
- scarce vents.
and for other small things, having paid $ 66 with bonuses included from aliexpress seems like enough investment.

in spanish
yo tuve un FY6600, dejo de funcionar, nunca me contestaron un mail, luego compre un FY6900 60Mhz, y yo tuve la suerte de poder venderlo, por mas dinero de lo que lo yo pague, y compre un FY 6900 20 Mhz, yo creo que es un generador de señales y ideal para hobbista como yo, que solo lo ocupo 5 o 6 veces por mes,  no vale la pena invertir en un 60Mhz, para eso iria por un rigol o siglent.

-No es actualizable, a pesar que tiene la combinacion de boton para update.
-mala fuente.
- no posee cooler.
- el chip altera no posee disipador.
- rejas de ventilacion escasas.
y por otras pequeñas cosas, el haber pagado u$s 66 con bonos incluidos de aliexpress me parece suficiente inversion.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: enut11 on November 23, 2019, 10:58:57 pm
Question for @FeelElec
I am looking to buy an FY6900 60M, but only if it has a predictable and stable amplitude setting up to about 20MHz.
Can you publish amplitude vs frequency specs for the 6900? Specifically, I am looking for better than +-0.2dB at 1kHz vs 10MHz and beyond.
enut11
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: v0ltair3 on November 24, 2019, 11:15:22 am
Dear FeelElec,

Are you stating that I bought a brick ? Is its working fine so far but we're basically in 2020, there's no such thing as "closed" products anymore nowadays.... for sure there will be needed fixes in the coming revisions... for example, whats new in the rev 1.3 ??

How come you don't publish the binaries ?

How can I upgrade my firmware and or fix any bug in the near future ?


Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Adrian_Arg. on November 24, 2019, 01:35:18 pm
Dear FeelElec,

Are you stating that I bought a brick ? Is its working fine so far but we're basically in 2020, there's no such thing as "closed" products anymore nowadays.... for sure there will be needed fixes in the coming revisions... for example, whats new in the rev 1.3 ??

How come you don't publish the binaries ?

How can I upgrade my firmware and or fix any bug in the near future ?

Right friend, if you buy the v1.3 update, it comes with a gift FY6900. :-DD :-DD
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Howardlong on November 25, 2019, 02:16:28 pm
Is its working fine so far but we're basically in 2020, there's no such thing as "closed" products anymore nowadays....

Your evidence for this is what? Maybe your glasses are little too rose tinted!
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Old Printer on November 25, 2019, 04:09:50 pm
Is its working fine so far but we're basically in 2020, there's no such thing as "closed" products anymore nowadays....

Your evidence for this is what? Maybe your glasses are little too rose tinted!

Anyone who does not believe that obviously doesn't own any Apple products.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: v0ltair3 on November 25, 2019, 04:32:43 pm

I didn't meant "close product" in the sense that FeelElec shall provide open interfaces or opensource they software... but why shouldn't I be able to update my product to the latest revision ?

This is a brand new product, knowing from decades of experience that there's no such thing as perfect software (or firmware if you want), why the hell shouldn't they provide their latest versions ?

Event my toy oscilloscope (DSO150) offers firmware updates, is that too much of an ask ?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: dunkemhigh on November 25, 2019, 06:07:34 pm
That's a valid point. With mechanical stuff we can't upgrade (unless we buy a new one) but then we don't need to - the kit usually works as it should because if it doesn't then it's not fit for purpose and we can get our money back. With software, however, it is rare that it is bug-free like hardware is, so it is generally sold incomplete. It's like buying, say, a food mixer with paddles made out of styrofoam. We assume that these bugs will be fixed (because they can be - it is only software) because if they couldn't then we would return it as faulty.

The other point to note is that firmware  updates happen a LOT faster than hardware updates. Why would I buy one this week when I know that next month a newer and far better one will be on the market at the same price (or, as is often the case, cheaper)?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on November 27, 2019, 12:28:27 am

I did send and email with Photo's to your support and never got any reply . Banggood did give me a small refund to cover some cost of repair $10 . I spent over $60 to get working So SO.


Dear Customer,
I'm very sorry perhaps I didn't receive your email. Can you tell me your email address?

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on November 27, 2019, 12:32:54 am
I am looking to buy an FY6900 60M, but only if it has a predictable and stable amplitude setting up to about 20MHz.
Can you publish amplitude vs frequency specs for the 6900? Specifically, I am looking for better than +-0.2dB at 1kHz vs 10MHz and beyond.
enut11

Dear Customer,
Our FY6900 is can be do it. Can you tell me your email? I could send you the user manual by email.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on November 27, 2019, 12:41:03 am
Dear FeelElec,

Are you stating that I bought a brick ? Is its working fine so far but we're basically in 2020, there's no such thing as "closed" products anymore nowadays.... for sure there will be needed fixes in the coming revisions... for example, whats new in the rev 1.3 ??

How come you don't publish the binaries ?

How can I upgrade my firmware and or fix any bug in the near future ?

Dear Customer,
Our latest version is 1.3, and 1.3 supports online upgrade. Now that you have the latest version, you do not need to upgrade. If you want to upgrade version 1.2, we need to mail you the chip. If the latest version is released and needs to be upgraded online, we will send the upgrade package to the customer, and will not release binaries.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on November 27, 2019, 12:42:38 am

I didn't meant "close product" in the sense that FeelElec shall provide open interfaces or opensource they software... but why shouldn't I be able to update my product to the latest revision ?

This is a brand new product, knowing from decades of experience that there's no such thing as perfect software (or firmware if you want), why the hell shouldn't they provide their latest versions ?

Event my toy oscilloscope (DSO150) offers firmware updates, is that too much of an ask ?

Dear Customer,
Our product can be upgrade latest version.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: thomastheo on November 27, 2019, 05:41:55 pm

I didn't meant "close product" in the sense that FeelElec shall provide open interfaces or opensource they software... but why shouldn't I be able to update my product to the latest revision ?

This is a brand new product, knowing from decades of experience that there's no such thing as perfect software (or firmware if you want), why the hell shouldn't they provide their latest versions ?

Event my toy oscilloscope (DSO150) offers firmware updates, is that too much of an ask ?

Dear Customer,
Our product can be upgrade latest version.

FeelElec

Great to hear! Can you please tell us by which process we can update our firmware to the latest version?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: ishergin on November 29, 2019, 06:11:42 pm
Hello!

I've received FY6900 PC Software v 6.5 from my seller. Application offers to update firmware my FY6900 from v1.3 up to v1.4. Could I see changelog?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Clarmrrsn on November 30, 2019, 11:04:04 am
Does anyone know if there are any EU stockists of the FY-6900?

A few ebay listings say they are in London, but I suspect that is a crock.

Looking for my first signal gen and this looks like a good candidate.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Howardlong on November 30, 2019, 11:35:22 am
Does anyone know if there are any EU stockists of the FY-6900?

A few ebay listings say they are in London, but I suspect that is a crock.

Looking for my first signal gen and this looks like a good candidate.

I doubt the product is in London too, however I did two orders for the FY-6900 with seller ”industproduct”, one took 5 days elapsed, the other 7. I’d guess he product is in Hong Kong or China, and they bulk ship a number of products on a single consignment, and redistribute items once in the UK.

The example attached was ordered on 22nd August and arrived on 27th.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Clarmrrsn on November 30, 2019, 01:43:28 pm
Thank you

None in stock from that seller just now, but I suspect this is the same seller, that old trick of more than one ebay account that they all seem to pull.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F123968464157 (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F123968464157)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on December 03, 2019, 02:20:43 am
Hello!

I've received FY6900 PC Software v 6.5 from my seller. Application offers to update firmware my FY6900 from v1.3 up to v1.4. Could I see changelog?

Dear customer,
At present, the latest version of our device is 1.3, and we do not have 1.4. I've confirmed with our technicians that it's just a tip.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: thomastheo on December 03, 2019, 12:58:53 pm
Hello!

I've received FY6900 PC Software v 6.5 from my seller. Application offers to update firmware my FY6900 from v1.3 up to v1.4. Could I see changelog?

Dear customer,
At present, the latest version of our device is 1.3, and we do not have 1.4. I've confirmed with our technicians that it's just a tip.

FeelElec



Could you please tell us where to download this version 6.5 of the PC software, so we can update our signal generators to the latest firmware? Your website still only offers version 6.3 of the software.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: ishergin on December 03, 2019, 01:06:25 pm
I opened dispute on Aliexpress with problem's desctiption (about invalid amplitude value with 50 Ohm load and jitter), after that seller sent me PC software with firmware. I haven't tried update firmware yet  :)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Clarmrrsn on December 06, 2019, 10:27:02 am
Be careful if buying FY6900 on Ebay (As Always)

As I suspected the seller I ordered from as above is full of it, dispatched on monday and tracking still has not updated.  Says "In transit to Yodel". Yet seller insists it is shipped from uk!!!   (Maybe they are walking it from London to Falkirk)

Can get no information from the seller, I would be better speaking to the next door neighbours dog and asking him where my parcel is.

Typical Chinese Ebay seller.

Unfortunately though it looked the best option at the time.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: v0ltair3 on December 06, 2019, 11:56:35 am
Just ensure you know the revision number before purchasing it, 1.2 and before can't have software upgrades, that "feature" :palm:  was only released in 1.3 
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: thomastheo on December 07, 2019, 05:40:20 pm
Just ensure you know the revision number before purchasing it, 1.2 and before can't have software upgrades, that "feature" :palm:  was only released in 1.3

Where did you hear this? If true, that's just really really shitty.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: enut11 on December 08, 2019, 07:15:10 am

"I am looking to buy an FY6900 60M, but only if it has a predictable and stable amplitude up to about 20MHz.
Can you publish amplitude vs frequency specs for the 6900? Specifically, I am looking for better than +-0.2dB at 1kHz vs 10MHz and beyond.
enut11"


Dear Customer,
Our FY6900 is can be do it. Can you tell me your email? I could send you the user manual by email.

FeelElec

Hi @FeelElec
I have sent you a Personal Message with my email address.
enut11
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: beanflying on December 08, 2019, 11:01:20 am
It's more like you are expecting a Leopard to change it's spots expecting actual and credible customer service from Feeltech/Feelelec

All I see here is attempts at platitudes and more of the same 'support' as in the past.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: v0ltair3 on December 08, 2019, 11:05:32 am
Just ensure you know the revision number before purchasing it, 1.2 and before can't have software upgrades, that "feature" :palm:  was only released in 1.3

Where did you hear this? If true, that's just really really shitty.

Look a few post above... It was confirmed directly by sales support as well... I ended up selling mine, otherwise I would be stucked to a brick
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Clarmrrsn on December 08, 2019, 12:07:43 pm
Be careful if buying FY6900 on Ebay (As Always)

As I suspected the seller I ordered from as above is full of it, dispatched on monday and tracking still has not updated.  Says "In transit to Yodel". Yet seller insists it is shipped from uk!!!   (Maybe they are walking it from London to Falkirk)

Can get no information from the seller, I would be better speaking to the next door neighbours dog and asking him where my parcel is.

Typical Chinese Ebay seller.

Unfortunately though it looked the best option at the time.

Well ill be a monkeys uncle.

It has turned up at Yodel Livingston depot at 7am this morning (On a Sunday.......really??)

I suspect they did indeed get some poor soul to walk from London to Livingston, they must have walked non stop for 6 days and have blisters the size of golf balls.  :-DD
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: thomastheo on December 09, 2019, 07:53:05 pm

Look a few post above... It was confirmed directly by sales support as well... I ended up selling mine, otherwise I would be stucked to a brick

Thanks, apparently I just read over that. What a crock, honestly. Feelelec shoud ship microcontrollers with updated firmware to everyone who bought a unit with version 1.2 and below, because this is just no way to treat your customers.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: v0ltair3 on December 09, 2019, 09:45:41 pm
If you contact them, they will...

You need to pay for the shipping and resolder it yourself. As I don't have the proper tools for doing it, I would have to pay for the shipping plus finding someone that would offer that service and pay for it anyway... So I sold it ...
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Janusz on December 10, 2019, 10:11:21 pm
Hi. Changing the firmware (chips) is a quick and short way. Although not for everyone. :/ And not too expensive. Greetings
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: nctnico on December 10, 2019, 10:19:46 pm
These kind of replacement jobs are much easier when you don't clean the pads (remove solder). Add flux, heat gently with hot air, remove the old chip, put the new chip in place, add flux again and reheat until the joints are nice. Usually there is enough solder on the pads so you don't need to add any solder. If there isn't enough solder on some pads then a big tip (about 3 or 4 pins wide) and flux are all you need to fix it. Just add a little bit of solder to the tip and put flux on the pins. You'll see the flux gets rid of all the bridges. Using a small tip just makes things much harder and messy.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Janusz on December 11, 2019, 07:41:03 am
Hi. It will be easier the next time. I will use your trick. This time when soldering I had too much adrenaline in my blood.  :o Success pleases.   :-+ Greetings.
PS. After replacing the chips and updating FY6900 PC Software to v. 6.5, I updated the firmware to version 1.4. :)
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Adrian_Arg. on December 11, 2019, 10:08:00 pm
Hi. It will be easier the next time. I will use your trick. This time when soldering I had too much adrenaline in my blood.  :o Success pleases.   :-+ Greetings.
PS. After replacing the chips and updating FY6900 PC Software to v. 6.5, I updated the firmware to version 1.4. :)

Hi, where did you download firmware 1.4 and software 6.5, I can't find it. :-//
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Janusz on December 12, 2019, 07:32:27 am
Simplest way is:  connect to PC and power on generator,, run FY6900 PC Software with admin privileges. Without - its failed. Update software from 6.3 to 6.5. Check firmware version. And update (or not).
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Adrian_Arg. on December 12, 2019, 01:12:47 pm
Thanks for the info, you know what are the firmware improvements from 1.3 to 1.4?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Janusz on December 12, 2019, 02:01:12 pm
It's too new. I didn't have enough time to look around. Because of that ... I have no idea  :-[
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Adrian_Arg. on December 12, 2019, 11:49:16 pm
Hi janusz, there update software to version 6.5, and firmware to version 1.4, the fy6900 start screen still shows v1.3, but the pc software tells me that it has installed 1.4, so I don't know who believe him  :-//


in spanish

Hola janusz, ahi actualize software a la version 6.5, y el firmware a la version 1.4, la pantalla de inicio del fy6900 sigue mostrando v1.3, pero el software de pc me indica que tiene instalado la 1.4, asi que no se a quien creerle :-//
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Janusz on December 13, 2019, 08:48:44 am
The same here. Some time ago a representative of the producer on this blog indicated that the latest version is 1.3. Maybe it's some beta version.  ???  Interestingly, the "Random Noise" signal disappeared. It's like a shifted DC  :-\
---
 Reply #156 on: November 27, 2019, 12:41:03 am: "...Our latest version is 1.3, and 1.3 supports online upgrade. Now that you have the latest version, you do not need to upgrade...."
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: thomastheo on December 13, 2019, 01:35:45 pm
Ive contacted Feelelec via email for a replacement controller with the newer firmware, but have not heard a peep back from them. @Feelelec, could you please advise us on the best way to go about getting this IC?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Janusz on December 13, 2019, 03:21:12 pm
I sent the inquiry and the order to: sales@feelelec.com (available on their website). I think it's a sales department. I got the answer very quickly. Next day. After paying (chips + porto) I received the parcel after about 15 days.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: wz5q on December 13, 2019, 04:40:13 pm
I sent a request to service@feelelec.com for the latest version of the PC Software (ver6.5) as their website only had ver6.3. I received an answer with the requested ver6.5 software attached to it the next day.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Adrian_Arg. on December 13, 2019, 05:04:15 pm
The same here. Some time ago a representative of the producer on this blog indicated that the latest version is 1.3. Maybe it's some beta version.  ???  Interestingly, the "Random Noise" signal disappeared. It's like a shifted DC  :-\
---
 Reply #156 on: November 27, 2019, 12:41:03 am: "...Our latest version is 1.3, and 1.3 supports online upgrade. Now that you have the latest version, you do not need to upgrade...."
[/quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cJGHDeAL04 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cJGHDeAL04)
I comment, watching this video, mine has not changed anything, the noise randon is still, but the software detects it as 1.4 to the installed firmware, it can be a minor adjustment, because the input level follows in 5v the poster, when I should say 20v

in spanish
te comento, observando este video, el mio no ha cambiado nada, el noise randon sigue estando, pero el software me lo detecta como 1.4 al firmware instalado, puede ser un ajuste minino, porque el nivel de entrada sigue en 5v el cartel, cuando deberi decir 20v
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Janusz on December 14, 2019, 09:31:34 am
Interesting video. What interests me the most is: how to use the sweep function effectively?  :-\ And this is how my generator looks (after replacing the PSU) :D
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: thomastheo on December 16, 2019, 04:27:03 am
Well, you guys were right, they responded to my email, and offered to send the replacement chip for a very fair price. It shouldn't have been necessary, but all things considered I am unaccustomed to getting this kind of after-sales care from a manufacturer, so I have to give them props for it. They do stand by their product and even offer parts, which is pretty amazing these days.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on December 16, 2019, 09:36:51 am
Dear customer,
Now, we are releasing version is 1.3. V1.4 is still being tested and is not recommended for upgrade.

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: us0ta on December 16, 2019, 10:26:16 am
Dear, FeelElec! I bought FY-6900-60 on AliExpress, but it does not work properly. The main problem is that the device does not generate a signal at all. When you turn on the device should be a sinusoid, but it is not. When choosing the type of waves, it is also empty at the output. I tested both channels. Cable tested too. When you connect the oscilloscope also indicates the lack of waves. What could be wrong? And how to fix it?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Janusz on December 16, 2019, 11:10:49 pm
(I am not a producer and I do not know if it will work, but) if the cables inside the device did not disconnect and you have not done it yet: I was fix my generator (with firmware version 1.2) Good luck ...
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: us0ta on December 17, 2019, 11:29:35 am

  • 1. connect the generator to the PC (via USB) and turn it on,
  • 2 run - with admin privileges - the FY6900 PC Software application (v.6.5),
  • 3 check if the software has correctly detected the generator (lower right corner of the application window: generator type (FY6900-60M) and connection port, (eg COM3), sometimes you need to disconnect and connect the cable USB by OS again detected the generator,
  • 4 on the upper bar go to the "Help" option and run the "Repair_Sine" option.
I was fix my generator (with firmware version 1.2) Good luck ...

Janusz, thank you for reply!
Installing the driver and connecting to the PC passed without problems. I did "Repair_Sine"  several times, but there is no result
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Janusz on December 17, 2019, 01:57:30 pm
...Installing the driver and connecting to the PC...but there is no result
It's a pity! I believe that the help from the manufacturer will be more effective.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on December 20, 2019, 06:51:41 am
Dear, FeelElec! I bought FY-6900-60 on AliExpress, but it does not work properly. The main problem is that the device does not generate a signal at all. When you turn on the device should be a sinusoid, but it is not. When choosing the type of waves, it is also empty at the output. I tested both channels. Cable tested too. When you connect the oscilloscope also indicates the lack of waves. What could be wrong? And how to fix it?

Dear customer,
We are very sorry about this trouble.
This condition may be caused by the internal cable falling off or loose.
Please send one message to my email: sales@feelelec.com. I could send you the files about FY6900 dismantling method.

FeelEelc
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: us0ta on December 20, 2019, 09:32:53 am
Dear, FeelElec! I bought FY-6900-60 on AliExpress, but it does not work properly. The main problem is that the device does not generate a signal at all. When you turn on the device should be a sinusoid, but it is not. When choosing the type of waves, it is also empty at the output. I tested both channels. Cable tested too. When you connect the oscilloscope also indicates the lack of waves. What could be wrong? And how to fix it?

Dear customer,
We are very sorry about this trouble.
This condition may be caused by the internal cable falling off or loose.
Please send one message to my email: sales@feelelec.com. I could send you the files about FY6900 dismantling method.

FeelEelc

I've received dismantling method pdf, but how it can help me?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: FeelElec on December 25, 2019, 09:32:50 am
Dear customer,
Is the cable inside the instrument normal?

FeelElec
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: us0ta on December 26, 2019, 05:51:57 pm
Dear customer,
Is the cable inside the instrument normal?

FeelElec

Everything is ok inside, but device doesn't work properly (
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: yo3fhm on December 30, 2019, 01:51:49 pm
Hi everybody!

I would like to ask if there is anyone who tried to upload arbitrary waveforms to FY-6900 (files created, for example, through Matlab).
There are only some brief references in the user guide, nothing step-by-step :
Quote
- Can output up to 97 groups of functions / arbitrary waveform, contains 33 groups
of preset waveforms and 64 groups of user-defined waveforms.
- Non-Volatile Storage Can store 64 user-defined arbitrary waveforms, (8K 14bits) * 64
- Users can download arbitrary waveform to this instrument after edit through PC program which is included in user CD.
- Note: Arbitrary waveforms can be edited and downloaded from PC software provided by FeelElec

In the hope of your answers, please allow me to wish you a Happy New Year and best wishes !

Regards,
Cezar YO3FHM


Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: yo3fhm on January 02, 2020, 11:54:41 am
OK, while nobody posted any reply to my answer, I found the following information on a review from the FeelElec Store on AliExpress .
It is from a customer from USA (as the flag say there). Hope to be useful for other people :

Quote
The last 2 days I have been testing the functions of my FY6900 generator with a 12 bits oscilloscope. The instrument has lots of controls, and built-in functions, so serious testing took some time. I am very happy with the results. The specifications are fulfilled within the given limits. The generator came with software to control it through an USB connection. The computer control works fine. The software also allows you to draw your own waves, and to store them as arbitrary wave which works also well; another plus for the FY6900. The manual was a good help, not to long, but clear; that is the next plus. I am most satisfied with this instrument, its software and documentation, and its very reasonable price. Thank you FEELELEC for your balanced equipment, and documentation. I expect it to be highly useful for the next years in my workshop. 28 Sep 2019 14:17

Also, I mention that I contacted FeelElec and the response from their sales (on the E-mail) also included the serial communication protocol (Host Computer Communication Protocol Specification Rev 1.8 ), which contains the commands *and* all the necessary examples for programming !
I think this is a big plus for those who want to automate various measurements.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: wz5q on January 09, 2020, 02:00:59 pm
I have a FY6900-60M (Serial Number 191169001053) Firmware rev 1.3.

It is working just fine and I am impressed with the device.
It works amazingly well for the cost.

The only bad thing I have found is an aggravating anomaly with the "SWEEP" function.

The following is an example:

The unit is set for running a Sine Wave, Linear Frequency Sweep from 1Hz to 100KHz at a time period of 500.00 seconds and the direction set to Forth. When the Sweep is engaged, it starts at 1Hz and starts to increase in frequency normally until it reaches 100KHz. This is normal function.

This is the anomaly:
If you stop the Sweep and then restart it, it does not start at the set beginning frequency.

For example, the Sweep is running from 1Hz to 100KHZ and you stop the sweep at 10KHz. If you start the sweep again it starts at 10KHz and continues to 100KHz. The sweep does not start again at 1Hz, it remembers where it stopped and starts at that point to continue. There is no option I can find to make it start again at 1Hz where the unit is set to begin, it will always remember where it stopped and starts at that point.

This anomaly also occurs when the direction is set for Forth, Back, and Forth to Back.

I sent Feeltech an email at service@feelelec.com explaining this, we shall see what they say.
Hopefully they can fix this in a future firmware upgrade.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: AlMuz on January 09, 2020, 09:39:47 pm
Hi Everyone,

I've finally got my device and have a few questions to a group of experienced users.
 
But first few words about my experience trying to get it from China:
I was trying to get this device since September 2019. 
To be added - I am not trying to say that AliExpress better than Banggood. It is just hit or miss with these Chinese re-sellers. Had similar issues at AliExpress ordering T12 soldering iron from KSGER (however going to another seller helped).


So, back to device:

I am not an expert, but would recommend to everyone do tear-down immediately to check everything.
Say in my scenario I had a ground wire barely holding to solder joint on power connector. It fell of when I finished removing plastic panels.
Totally sure it would fell off by itself just from ambient vibrations in the room, with a risk of shorting device ground to power line.

I've got a Kkmoon 60Mhz version. Which looks have got slightly updated main board from what posted here previously (silckscreen says v.1.9 instead of v.1.8)
Major difference I see (from what I could figure out just by looking on videos and pictures posted by others) is that the newer board got a FAN connector under the power-lines plug.
Which is in fact complete nonsense -  it is simply a  JST connector footprint that is directly hooked to 5V power rail. You will not get any speed control. But 5V probably might be enough to spin 12V 40mm FAN at a lower RPM still getting away some heat without producing too much noise.

Also - the ground wire in my version goes directly to the main board, instead of power supply broad. This is probably better, avoiding the resistance of few additional wire-plug contact points on the way to BNC connectors. The wire still just cut-off from original 6 pin connector. Anyway, as a simplest safety improvement I would replace thin ground wire from JST plug with a proper thick and insulated ground wire that goes directly from GND TH-pad of the FAN plug (or any other massive GND pad at the bottom ground plane of the board).

Anyway, I did not go for FAN installation to this JST pad or ground wire fix just because I plan full replacement of power supply. I've noticed some spikes in output signal likely from swithing supply, so plan to rework it into decent full-linear regulator.

Just ordered nice fitting (D=3" x H=1") toroid transformer.  There are plenty of these available on eBay or AliExpress for $35 shipped. Designed for audio amplifiers some of them posses output windings of multiple voltage levels (+/-9 and +/-15).

In my case I've got a very good deal ($23) for 20VA toroid with just two 13V AC positive and negative windings.  Should be just right to power 12V (or actually 13.5V) DC rails. For that I plan to use widely available AC-DC supply module based on LM317, LM337 and LF353 (not sure what the last OpAmp serves, looking to schematic - likely for better output stabilization).

5V supply for digital circuitry will drop on positive winding (should have common ground with analog op-amp supply rails anyway).
And to somewhat even the load between positive and negative windings - will drop a separate full bridge rectifier with BUCK converter to power-up a temperature-regulated FAN speed controller. Total of all the parts I've already ordered (with some additional components) is under $60.

The question:
I've also noticed that main board has two new empty SMD pads for inductors, they were not there before in FY6800 version (to the right of power rails JST connector). Likely for additional filtering of +/- 12V rails. There is a narrow trace connecting two square pads on each inductor footprint (shorting them togather). Did anyone cut those and installed some chokes? What were the choke parameters (inductance and series resistance)? Did you notice any improvement in signal output (with original power supply or upgraded one)?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: excitedbox on January 13, 2020, 12:29:22 am
I also had problems getting mine. I ordered on Ebay but it disappeard in Customs. The seller sent it again and same thing happened. Then I ordered from AliExpress from a seller that claimed to ship from Spain but really shipped from China and repackaged in Spain. This caused a long delay and the seller didn´t answer any emails until the last day of my dispute on AliExpress. It seems the repacking company doesn´t update the tracking number so the tracking shows it as delivered even though it only got to their warehouse in spain. After that it still took another 3 weeks until it arrived. I was pretty angry because the shipping guarantee was for less than 2 weeks total and it took over a month and a half. Plus no communication was just unacceptable. In addition to claiming to ship from inside of the EU. I would not have ordered there if I had known that. I even paid 12 Euros extra for shipping which I would have saved buying directly from China.


In the end it all worked though and I ordered an Amplifier board for ~26 Euros so I can output up to 32V 5A waveforms.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: rhb on January 14, 2020, 03:38:17 am

In the end it all worked though and I ordered an Amplifier board for ~26 Euros so I can output up to 32V 5A waveforms.

32 V into a 50 ohm load is 0.64 A.  5 A through 50 ohms requires 250 V.

I think there is something wrong with this picture.

Reg
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: nctnico on January 14, 2020, 08:22:29 am
Those amplifier boards don't have 50 Ohm outputs; usually the output impedance is close to 0 Ohm.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: teecelly2020 on January 14, 2020, 02:15:30 pm
Replaced the power supply in the FY6900 with this handy module from Jameco.  Meanwell PT-65B +5v, +12v, -12v switching supply.  https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/216726.pdf (https://www.jameco.com/Jameco/Products/ProdDS/216726.pdf)

Fits perfectly.  has isolated ground, and lower noise than original unit.  Lowers noise floor and THD dramatically...especially below 4 volts.  (I use it for audio testing)  Also, higher current capability means it doesnt sag under load.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: rhb on January 14, 2020, 03:43:20 pm
Those amplifier boards don't have 50 Ohm outputs; usually the output impedance is close to 0 Ohm.

6.4 ohms based on the numbers given.  Actually not a bad compromise if one wants to drive 4 & 8 ohm speakers for testing.  But really bad if one is trying to drive an RF power amplifier.  I just wanted to emphasize that you need to also state the load impedance not just voltage and current.

Have fun!
Reg
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: einfachprima on January 14, 2020, 06:05:36 pm
I received my FY6900-60 last week (KKmoon, firmware 1.3). Based on the infos in this thread and on the website of Janusz (thanks a lot!) I was able to do the following modifications:
The software is useless for me, there is also a major bug, if you enter a frequency the unit gets the wrong frequency (e.g. entering 60 MHz results in 6 MHz).

There is one thing I don't understand: Some of you replace the power supply with a better one. And  this is a lot of work. What's wrong with the Feeltech power supply? How can I measure the problems of this power supply?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on January 15, 2020, 12:51:21 am
I received my FY6900-60 last week (KKmoon, firmware 1.3). Based on the infos in this thread and on the website of Janusz (thanks a lot!) I was able to do the following modifications:
  • I replaced the rotary knob with a more finger friendly knob
  • I added four small rubber feet to avoid moving the unit on my table
  • I calibrated the frequency so it fits to the frequency counter of my oscilloscope
  • I replaced the tiny cable to mains ground with a solid one
  • I installed software 6.3, updated to 6.5 and installed firmware 1.4
The software is useless for me, there is also a major bug, if you enter a frequency the unit gets the wrong frequency (e.g. entering 60 MHz results in 6 MHz).

There is one thing I don't understand: Some of you replace the power supply with a better one. And  this is a lot of work. What's wrong with the Feeltech power supply? How can I measure the problems of this power supply?

 As far as I'm aware, the FY6900's smpsu board is a slightly modified version of those used in the previous two models (6600 and 6800) and its main failing in this context is that of all cheap smpsus, high levels of conducted and directly radiated switching noise from the mains voltage HT switching module, not forgetting the related switching ripple noise riding on top of each voltage bus (+5, +12 and -12 volt rails - or, in this case the +5, +13.5 and -13.5 volt rails).

 The only good things about the psu board used in these signal/function generators are that they are class II psus which don't require a safety earth connection (and therefore neatly avoids the ground loop issues introduced by FeelTech's abuse of the LVDC 6 wire ribbon cable in the 6800 and 6900 models) and the design of this smpsu whereby the secondary 12 or 13.5 volt rails are inherently symmetric in output current rating to create a perfectly balanced bi-polar opamp supply which is something I've yet to see in any similarly rated 3 rail smpsu.

 Searching for a better quality smpsu to replace the existing unit with one that also offers identical current output ratings on the +/-12 or 15 volt rails has, so far, been on a par with searching for Unicorn droppings or Hens' teeth. Every single contender had this curious imbalance between the +/-12 or 15 volt rails, typically a 1A positive rail versus 330 to 500mA on the negative rail (a 3:1 to, at best, a 2:1 current rating ratio).

 Considering that the blindingly obvious, no-brainer use of +/-12 and 15 volt psus is to power opamps requiring balanced bi-polar supply rails, this lack of balanced output smpsus is quite contrary to all expectations where one might consider the 2:1 and 3:1 current rated psus to be speciality 'curios' manufactured for obscure off the wall applications rather than the almost ubiquitous pests of the smpsu world they appear to be. IOW, just WTF is going on!

 The only downside to the FY6600's floating ground rail was the troublesome half mains live 'touch voltage' courtesy of the EMC mandated use of the class Y capacitor bodge which creates an ESD hazard to the DUT. Many owners of the FY6600 replaced the C8 mains socket with a C14 in order to provide a ground connection to shunt this half live mains touch voltage directly to ground to suppress this ESD hazard. Some recognised the earth loop issues in using a hard connection so used a 100nF cap in series which eliminated any unwanted DC offsets from the mains earth wiring but did nothing for high frequency noise both being picked up by and sent out from the signal generator.

 In the end, after several weeks of looking for a solution that would allow me to retain the original C8 mains connection (an exercise in futility as I eventually proved), it turned out that the optimal solution was to upgrade the C8 to either a C6 or a C14 socket and simply use the protective earth terminal as a connection for a "static drain" resistor of sufficiently low value to reduce the 115vac 'touch voltage' down to just half a volt. In this case, a sufficiently low value of 'static drain' resistance turned out to be 10KR. Low enough to eliminate the ESD hazard but high enough to provide some 60 to 80 db attenuation to interference between the signal generator and the mains earth wiring.

 Some FY6600 owners tried upgrading the psu to a better quality smpsu and others chose to design and build an analogue psu based on a conventional mains transformer using 7805, 7812 and 7912 voltage regulators.

 Unless you can track down an ultra quiet smpsu designed for use in sensitive test gear, a seemingly better quality smpsu probably won't provide much, if any, improvement over the original in terms of noise reduction, Hence the decision by many to go the "analogue psu" route with a DIY design of their own.

 Many of these were successful but others fell foul of the additional heat produced by the voltage regulator ICs which, despite the manufacturers' claims for overheat protection, burnt themselves out anyway, taking out an opamp in at least one such case.

 I've been considering a psu upgrade for some time now and I've reached the conclusion that the best cost effective solution would be to use an R type mains transformer (24 to 30VA with two separate 16 to 18 v secondaries) and use dc-dc buck converters with ldo voltage regulators to get the best of both worlds (switching and analogue).

 However, before I even start such an upgrade, I have yet to test the potential improvement using battery power (a 12v SLA for the +12v and +5v rails (7805) with a couple of 6v lantern batteries to provide the -12v rail) to completely eliminate the smpsu switching noise which currently pollutes the generator's output. Once I've seen the effect of eliminating such switching noise for myself, I'm sure I'll have all the motivation I'll need to design and build my own replacement psu. At the moment though, my 'Basic GPSDO' project has priority and such battery testing remains on the back burner for the time being.

 As for "measuring the problems of the psu", the best way to quantify the 'problem' is to substitute it with 'battery power" as I described above and check the generator's output using an HF radio to tune into and around the carrier frequencies chosen for this test. You can, of course, use a spectrum analyser if you are so blessed but an HF radio can be just as effective a way to discern any improvement.

 Trying to quantify noise and ripple of any power supply using an oscilloscope is fraught with many problems as explained in the following YT video https://youtu.be/Edel3eduRj4 (I just put "measuring psu noise and ripple" into YT's search box and this, unsurprisingly, was the first hit).

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: einfachprima on January 15, 2020, 09:40:09 pm
Thanks for your detailed answer!

I had mixed up some information for 6600/6800/6900 in the past. Let me summarize what I now understand. Basically there are two independent problems:

Ground connection / ground loop / ESD hazard

FY6600 has a C8 mains connector without PE. That's ok because it's a class II power supply. And it has an advantage: no ground loops etc. Disadvantage: A voltage between PE and BNC ground can be measured (ESD hazard).
Possible solutions:
FY6900 has a C14 mains connector, PE is connected to PCB ground (with an inappropriate wire ...).
If I want to separate PE and BNC ground I have three possibilities (similar to FY6600):
Do you suggest to use option 3 (drain resistor)? Or is it better to use an isolation transformer?

Signal noise introduced by smps ripple/noise

It's a good idea to do a short test with a battery powered FY6900. If the signal is significantly better a new power supply (linear regulator, ...) is an option (this probably solves the ground problem as well). Currently I doubt that justifies the effort. At least for me and my oscilloscope. The ripple/noise of the function generator output is currently no problem for me (between 5 mVpp and 20 mVpp with a visible 60 kHz signal).


Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on January 16, 2020, 05:33:17 am
Thanks for your detailed answer!

I had mixed up some information for 6600/6800/6900 in the past. Let me summarize what I now understand. Basically there are two independent problems:

Ground connection / ground loop / ESD hazard

FY6600 has a C8 mains connector without PE. That's ok because it's a class II power supply. And it has an advantage: no ground loops etc. Disadvantage: A voltage between PE and BNC ground can be measured (ESD hazard).
Possible solutions:
  • Replace C8 with C14, connect PE to BNC/PCB ground
  • To avoid ground loop a 100nF capacitor can be used (in serial)
  • To avoid ground loop a 10k drain resistor can be used (in serial)
FY6900 has a C14 mains connector, PE is connected to PCB ground (with an inappropriate wire ...).
If I want to separate PE and BNC ground I have three possibilities (similar to FY6600):
  • Remove wire between PE and PCB ground
  • Add a 100nF capacitor (in serial)
  • Add a 10k drain resistor (in serial)
Do you suggest to use option 3 (drain resistor)? Or is it better to use an isolation transformer?

Signal noise introduced by smps ripple/noise

It's a good idea to do a short test with a battery powered FY6900. If the signal is significantly better a new power supply (linear regulator, ...) is an option (this probably solves the ground problem as well). Currently I doubt that justifies the effort. At least for me and my oscilloscope. The ripple/noise of the function generator output is currently no problem for me (between 5 mVpp and 20 mVpp with a visible 60 kHz signal).

 I'm not surprised you were mixing up the information between those three topic threads. The FY6600 one has been going for some two and a half years and is now 86 pages long with a total of 2149 replies as of the 2nd of this month!

 If that 5 to 20 mV ripple with a visible 60KHz signal you mentioned is a reference to the 60KHz switching noise, you might see some reduction if you try it with a 10KR in series with the earth connection.

 My own concern over the noise and ripple stems from my experience when generating a 30MHz carrier using a Kenwood TS140S HF transceiver to monitor it where there did seem to be some ripple and noise modulation on what should in theory have been a perfectly quiet carrier wave. Other than that, such ripple noise hasn't proved to be a major problem so far but then I am still working on modifications to enhance its frequency accuracy and stability so haven't been using it very much other than for testing those modifications and researching the workings of a DIY GPSDO I've been working on for almost a year along with discoveries of the GPS system's own deficiencies (nanosecond phase shift modulation due to ionospheric propagation conditions being the major problem for a basic pll driven GPSDO such as the one I'm trying to rebuild into a screened metal enclosure onto veroboard).

 The FY6600 has been a project in its own right for just over a year now and was what had spawned the basic GPSDO project I'm trying to box up as a workable frequency reference. These two 'projects' feed off each other so I'm dividing my time between the two. What doesn't help is my reliance on Banggood and Ebay to supply the components needed for these and other ancillary projects which have created additional delays to these long drawn out projects. I might eventually get around to fitting the four long screws that secure the FY6600's case halves together and have my GPSDO up and running in maybe as little as 6 months time with a bit of luck.

 When I was looking at the half mains live touch voltage issue with my own FY6600, I was a little reluctant to convert from the C8 connector and the very flexible 2 wire 6A mains cord to a C14 connector with its much stiffer 3 wire 10A rated mains cord in order to avoid the "Tail Wags Dog" effect with such a lightweight piece of test gear (only 700 grammes with no grippy rubber feet to stop it sliding all around the bench, especially true when propped up on its bail stand which left the rear hard rubber faced feet dangling in mid air as the rear edge grounded onto the bench top).

 I tried all sorts of inventive schemes to eliminate the touch voltage including mostly ways to cleverly null it out, overlooking the fact that you had to at least detect which way round the neutral and live wires of the non-polarised cord were plugged into the C8 socket so as to connect your nulling out circuit's reference to the neutral.

 Several doomed experiments with 1:1 mains transformers to create my anti-phase mains voltage source finally convinced me that, whilst in principle such a scheme could be made to work given a clever enough polarity detection system to control an automatic mains reversing switch, my "clever cure" was far more trouble than it was worth and still contained a risk of doubling the touch voltage if it went faulty for any reason.

 Since I've already suffered way too much at the hands of the Lord Murphy (of "Murphy's Law" fame), I decided that discretion in this case was most definitely the better part of valour and gave up the whole idea of nulling out the problem and looked to the more prosaic solution of using a polarised 3 pin mains socket to provide a convenient earthing point for attaching a 10KR drain resistor to kill off the touch voltage without introducing a low impedance earthing loop into the circuit.

 By way of a compromise in regard of the "Tail Wags Dog" effect, I chose a C6 (trefoil - clover leaf) mains inlet socket instead of the big butch C14 sockets other FY6600 owners (and Feeltech in the case of their 6800 and 6900 models) had elected to use. I'd noticed that a few of my C6 mains cables had been made up using thinner lightweight mains flex than typically used with C14 cords which would mitigate the "Tail Wags Dog" effect (as indeed this proved to be case).

 It might be argued by some that by not directly connecting the protective earth to the zero volt rail (BNC grounding point), I have compromised the generator's electrical safety. However, since it uses a class II smpsu board which does not require the use of a safety earth anyway, I don't see this as an issue of safety in this (plastic) case. The mains socket upgrade is merely to provide a reliable earthing point to automatically shunt the Y cap's half mains leakage touch voltage safely to ground via a 10KR resistor.

 It seems that Feeltech had been reading the FY6600 topic thread and taken note of the stream of complaints over this half mains live voltage issue and in a half assed ill thought out bout of unthinking pragmatic knee jerk response, decided to "upgrade" to a C14 mains socket, vandalising the 6 wire psu to mainboard ribbon cable to divert one of the only two ground return wires directly to the protective earth tag. Not only had they introduced an unwanted low impedance earth loop issue, they'd also aggravated the psu noise and ripple by stealing one of the ground return wires linking the psu to the mainboard into the bargain.

 Judging by the fact that the ill fated FY6900 was also given the very same (identical in fact) treatment, it looks as though Feeltech must have given up monitoring the FY6600 thread once they'd sprung their "Improved FY6800" upon an unsuspecting world otherwise they'd have used a more elegant solution for the FY6900.

 Basically, when it comes to fixing the earthing sins of the FY6800 and 6900 models, the optimum solution of using a 10KR (or even a 3k3R if you prefer) to link the ground rail to the protective earth as described for the FY6600 remains the same since these later models still use a cheap and cheerful class II smpsu board inside of their plastic cases which don't require a low resistance earth connection to meet electrical safety requirements.

 However, for those of a nervous disposition over the use of unearthed test equipment, there are ways to provide a low impedance path for fault currents to flow to the protective earth which under normal, non-fault conditions, can still provide a high resistance drain path for the unwanted half mains touch voltage. Basically it amounts to shunting the 10KR (or 3k3R) drain resistor with a couple of high current silicon diodes in series in anti-parallel with a second such pair (four diodes in total). In this case, you can get away with just a single pair of anti-parallel high current rated silicon diodes by using a 3k3R resistor (the ground loop noise margin will only drop 10dB in this case).

 This is a method I'd used some forty years ago to eliminate mains earth loop induced hum on a turntable with built in RIAA amplifier which blessed it with line out level signals that already gave it considerable immunity to such mains earth loop induced hum. In this case, since it was essentially only the 50Hz and the first few harmonics I was concerned with, I recall putting a 100nF cap across the two back to back diodes to guard against the possibility of high frequency harmonics should the diodes start to conduct and generate any distortion products (I can't remember whether or not I'd included a 1 or 10 k resistor across the diodes). I think the diodes I'd used had an Irr rating of 6A.

 In this case, I wouldn't add any capacitance across the diodes, just a 10 or 3.3 k resistor. If you're only guarding against the risk of a mains fault internal to the generator itself, I should think 6A rated diodes would suffice. If you're more concerned over an attached DUT injecting mains voltage, you'll probably want to fit 20 to 50 amp rated diodes (in which case you're likely to see the mains flex burst into flames with that level of fault current). For such current ratings, it's probably best to parallel up several 6 or 10 amp rated diodes to improve the chances that at least one will fail short circuit in the event of any such catastrophic fault current events.

 That, of course is a very simple solution and I'm sure there are better alternatives based on a pair of heavy duty thyristors (or triacs for some redundancy) where you can trigger them from a higher volt drop such as 10 to 30 volts to avoid any false triggering. Of course, triacs and thyristors have minimum sustaining current specs which will need to be considered in such a paranoid protection scheme. The one thing I wouldn't rely solely upon in such protection is any form of electromechanical relay to switch the high resistance drain circuit into its low resistance safety earthing state.

 TBH, after proof reading this, it does seem a rather over the top solution to a problem that may never ever arise but If I'd seen the need forty odd years ago to provide a safety earth connection that would avoid the hum loop issue, there may well be purpose designed devices available for just such protection by now but it hasn't occurred to me to go searching for any. A quick internet search failed to reveal any such ground loop isolating devices. My perception of the quality of human ingenuity has just gone down yet another notch or two. :(

  After having another go at tracking down a diode based 'hum eliminator' I came across this Youtube video https://youtu.be/qNQX8jyxRrs where the guy mentioned a 70 dollar hum eliminator, the "Ebtech Hum X Ground Loop Hum Exterminator" which he'd suspected was also based on the two anti-parallel diodes device he was building. I had already come across this item which I'd also had the same sneaking suspicion that it was quite likely based on the same principle (possibly utilising triacs rather than diodes).

 The youtuber mentioned that he'd seen the circuit he was building in other internet sources but failed to mention where. It would have been nice to track down other mentions of a circuit I'd invented for my own use over forty years ago. It seems I'm not the only person on the planet to have come up with the blindingly obvious solution to safely overcome the issue of hum loops in domestic audio systems where the short runs of screened interconnects are able to short out the modest voltage drops involved to keep the diodes in the high impedance state as in the case of the Feeltech signal generator's connections to the DUT and any other test gear located on the test bench.

 Two final observations I have in regard of that youtube video and the "Ebtech Hum X Ground Loop Hum Exterminator", is that I think the safety concerns that were expressed in the comments are entirely valid. The only safe place for such a circuit is inside the device rather than as an external add on adapter. Also, the need for 500v PIV rated diodes is a spurious one where the anti-parallel connection of the two diode (strings) means they'll never have to face more than one or two diode forward volt drops worth of reverse bias anyway.

 If one of the diode strings fails open circuit under a fault event, the 500v PIV rating won't help the situation and it would be far better to give a 50v PIV diode every opportunity to fail short circuit in such a circumstance. Indeed the lower the PIV rating, the better the chance of it failing short circuit rather than being blown to smithereens like a glass fuse by a high energy 300+ volts avalanche breakdown transient.

 If a semiconductor manufacturer could be persuaded to integrate this diode or triac based ground loop hum eliminator into a dedicated device, it could be optimised to reliably fail safe and meet electrical safety standards so I'm a little disappointed that there seems to be no such device commercially available. Presumably there isn't sufficient demand to justify the required investment.

JBG

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: einfachprima on January 16, 2020, 11:42:30 pm
Today I compared the noise of the FY6900 (DC 1.0 V & DC 1.1 V because the amplifier changes above 1 V) with the different PE options (disconnected, connected, 100nF, 10KR). I found no or only minor differences, so this has no real influence.

I will keep the 10KR (or the cap) to suppress the half mains leaking voltage between BNC GND and PE and to avoid ground loops. I'm fine with that solution.
Further (paranoid) protection with several diodes or triacs is an interesting thought experiment, but I don't think I need it.

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on January 17, 2020, 07:08:51 pm
Today I compared the noise of the FY6900 (DC 1.0 V & DC 1.1 V because the amplifier changes above 1 V) with the different PE options (disconnected, connected, 100nF, 10KR). I found no or only minor differences, so this has no real influence.

I will keep the 10KR (or the cap) to suppress the half mains leaking voltage between BNC GND and PE and to avoid ground loops. I'm fine with that solution.
Further (paranoid) protection with several diodes or triacs is an interesting thought experiment, but I don't think I need it.

 Your results with the varied earthing arrangements suggest that the common mode choke in the mains input filter on the psu board is doing a pretty effective job in attenuating switching transient noise leaking into the mains supply.

 Like yourself, I don't think there's any real need in this case (class II appliance) for the anti-parallel diode measure I'd offered for the benefit of anyone worried that inserting a 10k or 3k3 ohm resistor in series with the grounding wire would compromise the electrical safety of the signal generator in any way.

 The Thorens record deck however, being a class I appliance, was earthed for electrical safety so I wanted to avoid the risk of lifting the earth connection to rely solely upon the phono interconnect leads to the grounded inputs of the attached amplifier as was common practice in the audiophile community, hence my thinking laterally about the problem and the anti-parallel diode solution I'd concocted to fix both safety and ground loop issues at a single stroke.

 In this case, should the BNC grounds go fully live for any reason, I suspect the worst that would happen would be the operator receiving a "nasty jolt" through a fingertip rather than suffer electrocution (assuming said operator fails to notice a stronger than usual mains voltage tingle and take the hint that further careful investigation with a test meter should  be instigated to pinpoint and remedy such a potentially fatal fault condition).

 The risk of electrocution in this case seems such a vanishingly small one that I personally feel comfortable enough to live with (and I'll stake my life on that! :)).

 However, in the light of the above statements, it has just occurred to me that a better way to detect whenever a dangerous mains potential from whatever source is present on the BNC ground circuit of the signal generator (aside from the emission of magic smoke from a half watt 10k resistor) is to wire up a pair of blue leds (chosen for best luminous efficiency and brightness) in anti-parallel (for redundancy) in series with a 150k half watt or higher rated resistor across the 10k resistor (effectively a modern solid state version of the classic neon mains indicator lamp).

 This can be added to the front panel as a "Dangerous Earth Potential!" warning lamp to remove reliance on the operator managing to safely notice the resulting mains tingle touch voltage by pure dumb good luck alone. This offers the benefit of not only indicating a live to earth fault in the signal generator itself but also that of similar faults within any other connected test kit.

 Of course, one would need some means to verify that this warning lamp is in good working order. At the very least, it would need to be tested after its initial installation and at regular intervals thereafter (perhaps monthly or annually). In the case of 220/240v mains voltage, assuming a half watt rated 10k "drain" resistor has been installed, a 2W rated 27k resistor probe connected to mains live could be used to probe the BNC grounds whilst the generator is isolated from any other grounded kit ( in 120v regions, an 8k2 ohm 1W resistor could be used for this test). This should result in some 60 to 70 volts rms across the drain resistor, sufficient to light up the warning LEDs without risk of it burning out.

 Even better would be to incorporate this test resistor into the circuit with a test button that could be located out of the way on the rear panel. In this case, one might elect to use a 27k resistor regardless of the mains voltage standard. This will result in a 0.3mA lamp current on a 120v supply which is still more than sufficient to light up a blue LED quite nicely.

 Adding a  "Dangerous Earth Potential" warning lamp to the signal generator makes a lot more sense as a safety measure than my original anti-parallel diode idea which introduced the risk of overloading its mains flex earth conductor with fault current (quite possibly a hundred amps or more) from any other connected equipment that happens to suffer a live to earth contact fault. It's a feature that certainly merits further consideration but for now, I'll park that idea on the back burner until I've completed my current and more pressing list of planned upgrades.

JBG

Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: BeeJee on January 19, 2020, 12:11:14 am
did you see the high quality solution by SDG Electronics on Youtube for the better psu in his FY6900 ? his video's # 029, 077, 080 & 081
 are very elaborate & usefull about that..
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: rhb on January 19, 2020, 02:31:31 am
Johhny,

Your are, as always, a bit over the top in detail.  But a huge pleasure to read.  Someone once remarked about me that if you asked me the time, I'd tell you how to build a watch.  You go a step farther and explain how to build the machines to make the watch parts. :-)

Have Fun!
Reg
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: stcoso on January 19, 2020, 02:40:34 pm
Hi, I've got this func gen and I'm looking for a way to control it from PC without using the software from feeltech. Is the communication protocol known?
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: nctnico on January 19, 2020, 06:39:33 pm
did you see the high quality solution by SDG Electronics on Youtube for the better psu in his FY6900 ? his video's # 029, 077, 080 & 081
 are very elaborate & usefull about that..
I've seen those too but I have doubts about the clearances (a 3.5mm screw terminal doesn't have the clearance for 230V mains) and the design seems to be over complicated without getting to really low supply voltage noise levels.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: Johnny B Good on January 20, 2020, 10:28:32 pm
did you see the high quality solution by SDG Electronics on Youtube for the better psu in his FY6900 ? his video's # 029, 077, 080 & 081
 are very elaborate & usefull about that..

 I found #077 and just 6 1/2 minutes in I see he's elected to choose a 1.5A -13.5v dc-dc converter which is 3 times the actual half amp requirement worst case loading with a -12vDC on both channels feeding 50 ohm loads  :wtf:

[EDIT] see the edit below - it's more like a factor of 6!

 I haven't watched the rest of the video just yet but I thought I'd post a quick response to his initial miscalculated requirements for the +/- 13.5 volt rails before viewing the rest to see how he's going to keep HF switching noise from leaking onto the output rails of the LDOs he was considering - I've done some more research into this subject since my last posting and am fully aware of the pitfalls in just slapping LDOs onto the output of buck/boost converters to get noise free DC rail voltages.

[EDIT]

 I finished watching that video and managed to track down the rest (I think!) from his home page which actually took ages to show up. I noticed he'd taken additional measures to keep the switching noise out of the LDO regulators and made provision to deal with the effect of the Y cap in his 24v mains smpsu module. I have to say I disagree with the use of a 10 ohm resistor to suppress the half live mains touch voltage issue since even a 10K ohm resistor is a low enough shunt impedance to hold this leakage voltage down to a mere half volt (at least in the case of the original smpsu board - it might need the use of a 4k7R for this higher power replacement) more than low enough to keep even the most delicate of ancient mosfets safe from harm.

 As for the 8mV of noise on the outputs of the generator being residual random noise in the opamps themselves, I'm not entirely convinced that that is the case, especially as he'd set the output to zero with no dc offset. That final test didn't seem thorough enough to my mind - ok as an initial check to confirm his psu wasn't radiating/conducting switching noise into the main board circuitry perhaps.

 A more thorough test would involve selecting the DC "waveform" set to 10 or 12v into 50 ohm loads on both channels. This the worst case psu loading of circa half an amp when both channels are generating +12 or -12 volt dc outputs simultaneously into short circuits - actually, it's a mere quarter of an amp when driving 50 ohm loads - even I was out on my initial psu amperage estimate! :palm: A CMOS waveform at 99% duty cycle would come a close second worst case as far as the positive 13.5 rail is concerned.

 I'm wondering if he actually did any similar noise checks with the original smpsu board in place before embarking on this psu upgrade. It's quite possible that most of the improvement might have arisen simply from the use of a well shielded mains voltage to 24VDC smpsu module replacing the original RFI radiating smpsu board.

 Putting the original psu board into a metal enclosure of similar volume to his replacement PSU assembly might possibly have proved just as effective a solution. We'd be looking at a large and airy enough full metal jacket to keep things cool and shielded whilst also providing containment of any possible fire hazard posed by the original board - it's just a thought.  ;)

JBG
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: nctnico on January 21, 2020, 02:14:49 pm
Try to set the PSU on fire. I'm quite sure it won't burn at all. It is a typical standard consumer PSU which has likely been sold to power millions of pieces of household electronics.
Title: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
Post by: beanflying on January 21, 2020, 11:45:28 pm
Other than the floating Neutral/Earth issues the power supply is no more or less horrid than the average to poor cheap ones sold in a bunch of items. Going to massive efforts to replace it with a relatively costly solution in this cheap box makes little to no sense. By the time you weigh up the cost of bits and even a bit for the time spent you are pushing toward some of the 'better' other Chinese made alternates.

That is not to say don't complain about it but it should be made clear AGAIN to the manufacturer that it is sub par and poorly engineered from the factory and unacceptable.