Living overseas, want to buy first scope, limited options, Rigol 1102z-e?

[Gordo]

Hey guys, here's the deal... I'm living in Thailand, and test gear sources are EXTREMELY limited here. I'm looking to but a basic oscilloscope for general purpose benchwork, circuit testing (Amateur radio and related, and some arduino stuff) and project building. I haven't used a scope in a long time, but I'm pretty sure I can handle all the basic stuff after a few minutes familiarization with a new scope. I've read every applicable thread I can find here to get the lay of the land, but I'm coming up short, and I need some advice.

My only real potential sources for gear are ali-express (which I've had bad luck on in the past) and LAZADA.com which is sort of a Thai "Amazon" type operation offering goods from Thailand and from abroad (pretty much CHINA). I've had very good success with them over numerous transactions, so I'm inclined to use them, BUT, many of the products most recommended here are either not available through them, or just STUPIDLY high priced. I do miss being able to just order stuff from amazon and getting a good competitive price and immediate shipping from inventory, but alas, that's not available to me here. My budget is pretty limited as this is a hobby pursuit to me. Everybody knowledgeable for years has seemed to agree on just buying a DS1054 Rigol and seek no further, but not so easy to find here, and seemingly higher in price than before.

I need a scope I can just set up, calibrate and go... My choices seem to be as follows:

1) The now ubiquitous FNIRI 1014D, about USD$150, Which I would buy it in a minute based on price and the included function generated but EVERYTHING I've read about it says it's an unreliable toy, fuggetaboutit! I need something i can use, not something I can TRY to get working...  so no-go

2) The Rigol DS1102Z-E, seems like a decent reliable 2-ch scope (Which I think is fine for me at present) but there seems to be scant information available on it in actual usage... Mostly just reports on trying to hack it to 200MHz, which hasn't worked yet, rather than a working assessment. I can buy the scope from a pretty reputable looking Hong Kong dealer for about US$280 which seems a bit above market price but includes free shipping. I'm pretty confident that If I buy from them, I'll actually get it in my lifetime...

3) the Rigol DS1202Z-E which looks nicer but is STUPIDLY priced at well over $400 here and very scarce. (1 dubious looking listing)

4) The Sigilent SDS1202X-E which everybody seems to agree is superior to the Rigol 1202Z-E but is unobtanium on Lazada or Ali... I saw one listing somewhere for about $800... can't even consider going there.

5) A buttload of Hantek stuff, (2c10, 2C15, 5102P,) but the reviews don't sound great as being a good use it and go scope, and nobody here seems to recommend it as a solid beginner scope.

6) another buttload of misc. OWON, UNI-T, and a whole lot of re-badged/labled versions of the same.

I'm thinking go Rigol or go Sigilent (much harder to do) as there's a LOT of knowledge and resources available on these scopes, and based on price, the 1102Z-E looks like about the best I can do within my budget UNLESS there is a compelling reason to try to stretch into the 1054Z with is a good bit more expensive, and harder to find here (seems like they used to be everywhere). Also the money saved by going with the 1102Z-E would pay for a 60MHz FY function generator too.

I'd love to get some feedback, particularly from Rigol 1102Z-E owners, (yes, I know I can buy a much nicer scope for more money, but my budget is somewhat tight right now), and maybe some insight into the quality and usability of the various Hantek, Owon, Uni-T offerings that I've pretty much discounted.

Thanks for your help and insights,
Gordo

[Gordo]

Also, to add, I think I CAN get a Rigol 1054Z here, but the price would be about USD$420 plus shipping, which seems kinda high. Also it would definitely stretch me to my absolute budgetary limits.

[Fungus]

The Rigol DS1102Z-E is a Rigol DS1054Z but only two channels and 100MHz. Anything you read about the DS1054Z is applicable. The 'E' is just external trigger input.

The Rigol DS1202Z-E is exactly the same but 200Mhz. 200MHz is nicer but you probably don't need it.

Four channels is a big advantage for "Arduino". You can still do it with two channels but it needs a lot more swapping of probes.

If you're doing "Radio" then a signal generator is essential.

[tautech]

Gordo, have you looked at Evertech, your Thailand Siglent distributor ?
EVERTECH CO.,LTD
Add:163 Soi Pracha-utit44, Bangmod, Thongkru, Bangkok 10140, Thailand
Tel:(662)8702884-5
Email:bunphote@evertech.co.th
Url:www.evertech.co.th

[Andrew_Debbie]

I have a Hantek DSO2D10.   It does what I need and I use it all the time.   It is fine as a beginner 'scope. 

Early DSO2x1x series had buggy firmware but the current shipping firmware fixed the serious problems.


Shortcomings:   


About 10-20mV p-p noise on the 20mV scale.  This is with the probe shorted to ground.     Something to think about if you need to look at small signals. 
Comes with one probe.  Add the cost of a second probe to the price.
External trigger is 3.3V CMOS logic levels only.  External trigger and AWG share the same connector.   Most of the time I have to use Ch. 2 as a trigger.  < sigh >   This is perhaps the biggest shortcoming of this budget 'scope.

AWG isn't very good.  If I had this to do over I would have gotten the slightly less expensive version without the AWG. 


Small DC offset that does not go away.  Not important and appears to be fixed with the most recent patch from Hantek.  (yes they are still releasing FW updates for these)


 
The Siglents are better but they are also more expensive.

[Gordo]

Thanks Fungus for the Rigol info, that helps a lot in comparing the models in a nutshell.

Tao, I sent an e-mail to ever tech and requested a quote on the 1202X-E, we'll see what they come up with... No prices on their website of course, that would be too easy. The only other price I've been able to get on the 1202X-E here is over US$780 which seems ridiculous for a scope that sells for $350 in the States...

A-D, wow, thanks for the detailed description. Yes I'm interested in small signals and the noise figure you provided seems a bit high, also the limitations on triggering are concerning as well. I deeply appreciate the details and particulars you've got into as those are all things that are important to me.

Part of my quandary is that the the Rigol 1054 seemed to be the clear leader 5 years ago in this class, but some of the players and models have changed in time and I'm trying to re-establish my bearings. Yes, I'm going to need a signal generator/AWG too so I'm trying to figure how much I can bite off right now, and what I may have to wait for. I'm ok for PS and DMM for the time being. As far as the arduino stuff, I'm really just getting started with the simplest most basic stuff. I'm an analogue guy, but I'm trying to learn some new tricks (digital), in my dotage.

Thanks again,
Gordo

[tv84]

For AWG see if you can get a Rigol DG811. Forum shows how to fully upgrade it to 2-ch and higher BW.

[Gordo]

For AWG see if you can get a Rigol DG811. Forum shows how to fully upgrade it to 2-ch and higher BW.

Love to, but the budget says no. Also I'm living on Gilligans Island... over here the Feelthy-Tech FY series is considered exotic high end gear, lol (and probably what I'll end up with for now).

[Fungus]

Part of my quandary is that the the Rigol 1054 seemed to be the clear leader 5 years ago in this class

That really hasn't changed. If you want 4 channels then the Rigol 1054Z is still the basic "EEVBLOG approved" option.

What's changed recently is that Rigol added the 2-channel versions of their 'scopes.

[rsjsouza]

In your situation the Rigol (and perhaps the Siglent, depending on how the distributor responds) are still much nicer choices than the Fnirsi, for example (I don't know the Hanteks).

As for an AWG, the Feeltech is still a reasonable choice if you know well its limitations and later firmwares fixed a number of issues. I have one for a few years and, despite some quirks, it works quite well. I was told the Uni-T UTG932E is a better choice, but it will always depend on your availability.

[Gordo]

I'm checking on a 1054Z from here in Thailand, but the dealer is slow to respond... We will see

[scoper007]

Might need to take a look at here: https://www.es.co.th/detail.asp?Prod=125000086

[Gordo]

Thanks scoper, but a bit outside my budget and Inclined to go with either Rigol or Siglent for the simple reason that they're so WIDELY followed and seemingly everything there is to be known about them is here and readily searchable on this very forum. I'm not a REAL engineer (lol) so my strategy is to stay within the safety of the herd, because I'm interested in experimenting on my projects, not my gear. I don't mind being just an "ordinary"zebra.

[Gordo]

Well, I've ordered the Rigol 1054Z, good news is it's from a Thai supplier, rather than China or Hong Kong, meaning I'll have it in a few days rather than 2-3 weeks.
After checking out the hack info (super simple as opposed to some of the other scope hacks), I can see why it's become the Eevblog "standard" entry level scope. I think the extra 2 channels are probably going to be MUCH more useful to me than an additional 100MHz of BW would be, particularly because as an amateur radio operator of my type, pretty much all of the signals I'm interested in fall below 30MHz anyway. I thought that perhaps the newer models might offer some newer, useful features, but as far as I can determine, from a hardware perspective, they're just offering me a subset of what the 1054Z already has. Newer doesn't always mean better (maybe better for the bean counters at Rigol).

I very much appreciate all the guidance, especially from Fungus who just broke it all down to the bare nuts as far as what's what. I never received a response from the Thai Siglent distributor/vendor... I guess they didn't care about the sale. So I guess it just saved me some further teeth gnashing anyway. Rigol 1054Z (1104 really) it is. You can't argue with success, or at least I'm not qualified to do so, so I won't.

Surrender Dorothy....

Gordo

Thanks again everybody

[Gordo]

Sucked it up and ordered the Uni-T UTG 962 AWG as well, also from a Thai dealer so it should get here much quicker as well. Yeah, I blew out my budget a little bit, but the more I thought about it, the less inclined I was to try and get in too cheap. In reality it was only $25 more than the FY6900. Wish I could have bought a level up on both the scope and the sig-gen, but I think both of these will serve me plenty well for now.

Both of these were "budget" choices, but I think they both qualify as "quality/budget" selections. You guys have been a LOT of help. Already thought of a dozen handy ways to use those extra scope channels.

[phamthai2503]

The Rigol DS1102Z-E is a Rigol DS1054Z but only two channels and 100MHz. Anything you read about the DS1054Z is applicable. The 'E' is just external trigger input.

The Rigol DS1202Z-E is exactly the same but 200Mhz. 200MHz is nicer but you probably don't need it.

Four channels is a big advantage for "Arduino". You can still do it with two channels but it needs a lot more swapping of probes.

If you're doing "Radio" then a signal generator is essential.

Hello, I currently want to buy an oscilloscope to serve my laptop repair needs. There is 1 store in my country selling Rigol DS1102Z-E (100% New) $280  , and there are 2 more options of Second-hand goods (95%) Rigol DS1102E (100Mhz) $200  + Rigol DS1152E (150Mhz) $208
Which should I buy? please advise me! Thank you

[rsjsouza]

The DS1202Z-E (sorry, I meant DS1102Z-E as Fungus below) is the newest and most advanced of the set. It is worth the extra money.

[Fungus]

Hello, I currently want to buy an oscilloscope to serve my laptop repair needs. There is 1 store in my country selling Rigol DS1102Z-E (100% New) $280  , and there are 2 more options of Second-hand goods (95%) Rigol DS1102E (100Mhz) $200  + Rigol DS1152E (150Mhz) $208
Which should I buy? please advise me! Thank you

The Rigol DS1102Z-E is much, much more advanced than the others. Get that one.

[Alibani]

Hey guys,
I wish this topic is still alive . Otherwise, please guide me where should I ask my question or start a new topic for my question.
I have Avery limit budget , and I am a rookie in electronics , too.
I am going to buy an entry level oscilloscope. Here I have two choices : Rigol 1102Z-E and Uni-T 1202 . What is your opinion and recommendation?

[Phil1977]

Most statements in this thread are still completely valid.

The only thing that changed is that today you also get the Rigol DH804 or Siglent SDS 804x for less than $500. They have 12Bit, touchscreen and much more CPU power. If you need to pay more than $400 for a Rigol 1054z it is clearly recommended to go get that little bit of money more to go for the modern types.

If you can get a 1054 or 1102 for little money, then take it. They´re solid workhorses.

I´d try to avoid the even cheaper instruments like OWON SDS1202. They´re better than nothing, but they´re not much better than e.g. the FNIRSI 1013 class.

From my point of view the biggest difference is the "Digital Phosphor"-technology. Most scopes that are cheaper than the Rigol 1102 do not have this technology - that means they just display one sampled waveform at a time, and that means at a display refresh rate of e.g. 60Hz with 1us/div they only display 600us of signal per second of display. This equals to 99.94% of dead time.

Scopes with "Digital phosphor" sample e.g. 1000 waveforms and display them together on the screen - a little similar to what an electron beam did on analogue scopes, hence the name. That means, you can see 1000 times more of the signal, chances of finding glitches and other non-repetitive are are much better. It´s much more fun to learn electronics with such a device than with the single-waveform DSOs.

Please correct me if someone knows a decent "digital phosphor" scope in the lower price range as a benchtop version.

[Fungus]

I have two choices : Rigol 1102Z-E and Uni-T 1202 . What is your opinion and recommendation?

Rigol.

[coromonadalix]

Rigol ...

[Alibani]

Thank you pal ,
I bought the Rigol 1102-E . And I think it's the best choice in this budget