Author Topic: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting  (Read 9448 times)

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Online mrpackethead

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #150 on: May 11, 2019, 10:51:41 pm »
Revenue, are you going to be distributing these machines in the USA?
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 
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Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #151 on: May 13, 2019, 11:10:15 am »
I haven't forgot about you guys... I have been playing with the machine, loading feeders and learning the software. It's all starting to make sense.


 
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Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #152 on: May 13, 2019, 12:23:47 pm »
is it possible to upload videos to the forum or do I have to link it to youtube?
 

Offline Ice-Tea

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #153 on: May 13, 2019, 12:39:39 pm »
Link to YT.
eBay shop with all the gear you need!
FS: Agilent 54815A, 54825A, R&S CMU200, CRTU, SFU, SMIQ06L, Marconi 6201B, Lecroy WP 950, 9354TM, Tek THS720P, Anritsu MG3671A 2.75G I/Q RF gen, Keithley 238 SMU
 

Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #154 on: May 15, 2019, 12:36:21 am »
my son just came home from college for the summer and he figured out the machine in 10 minutes!
 
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #155 on: May 15, 2019, 07:11:49 am »
Revenue,

What PC are You using ?
 

Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #156 on: May 15, 2019, 10:43:48 am »
Revenue,

What PC are You using ?

Just an average windows 7 machine.

I now have 95% of the software figured out. Next step is to load all of the feeders and get them calibrated.
I will post a video later today.   
 
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Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #157 on: May 15, 2019, 11:22:50 pm »
Check out the walk around video...
https://youtu.be/nh9W4Trp_8w
 
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #158 on: May 16, 2019, 04:16:14 am »
Thanks revenue,

I am expecting my machine to arrive sometime in first week of June. A  VP-2800HP-CL64-4R minus the conveyor system with a bunch of pushfeeders and a mix of CL feeders.
We decided on this machine due to the number of available feeders.
The 4R head was selected in order to improve on optical fly by characteristics of the in line design of the head.
I had spoken to Michael about the PC ( hence my question ) with the view to minimising vision processing time.Michael's advice an i5 core machine.

Presently most of my machines are older generation.I have a collection of sun work stations i use to run linuxCNC to control the milling machine and laser exposure machines.
Presently investigating ryzen5 and intel core5 machines.

I am following Your exploits with considerable interest; thank You.
 

Offline SMTech

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #159 on: May 16, 2019, 08:18:24 am »
I find it fairly unlikely these machines use software that is heavily optimized to use multiple cores&threads and its worth bearing in mind that p&p machines have been running vision at speed for quite some time. Admittedly Cognex or the dedicated teams serving some of the established players might be highly skilled in writing optimised code but I would doubt there is actually any advantage in picking CPUs with extra cores, but extra Hz/IPC certainly certainly wouldn't hurt. You can get some bargain 2nd user machines but big name desktop PCs often run funny motherboards & power supplies or have power limits that mean the CPU you pay for can never or barely run at its rated speed. I'd be tempted to find  something like a z400/420 for a system designed to be rocksolid.

Our 2012 Essemtec runs on an i3 with 2GB of RAM and the vision system of that reads processes 4 devices at once from a single camera quick enough you can't really see it pause at the camera.
Our decidedly less clever 2002 Versatronics ran on a 733Mhz P3, you could sort of see it pause but its vision routines were interesting at best and the camera FOV so narrow it used multiple fields of view for quite a few things.
 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #160 on: May 16, 2019, 09:07:18 am »
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:17:47 am by IconicPCB »
 

Offline SWR

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #161 on: May 16, 2019, 09:13:07 am »
I'm using my laptop to run my VP-2500DP and it runs very smooth.
It's an Acer Aspire with a Core i7-7700HQ and a GeForce GTX 1060 graphics card.
I think it's what they call a budget gaming machine (< $1000).
You should never go down on equipment!
 

Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #162 on: May 16, 2019, 10:01:56 am »
Thanks revenue,

I am expecting my machine to arrive sometime in first week of June. A  VP-2800HP-CL64-4R minus the conveyor system with a bunch of pushfeeders and a mix of CL feeders.
We decided on this machine due to the number of available feeders.
The 4R head was selected in order to improve on optical fly by characteristics of the in line design of the head.
I had spoken to Michael about the PC ( hence my question ) with the view to minimising vision processing time.Michael's advice an i5 core machine.

Presently most of my machines are older generation.I have a collection of sun work stations i use to run linuxCNC to control the milling machine and laser exposure machines.
Presently investigating ryzen5 and intel core5 machines.

I am following Your exploits with considerable interest; thank You.

Looks like you went all out on the machine 8) ;D :P :-+

my PC is an i7 2700k CPU @ 3.8GHz
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 450 SE video card

Cameras look real time to me.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #163 on: May 16, 2019, 10:39:02 am »
Check out the walk around video...   
Looks great for that money, quite impressed.
Only thing except for the loose cabling (they could be placed in cableducts) that looks what can be improved are the placer heads.
That looks a bit plastick toyish. If they can do CNC aluminium they could have made that a bit more robust.
Like these for instance: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/tear-down-of-an-assembleonphilips-pp-head/msg1287990/#msg1287990

Do they have top down camera in the head or do they have linear encoders mouted or solely rely on the steppermotor encoders ?

If it works, it works ofcourse  :-+
 

Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #164 on: May 16, 2019, 10:53:20 am »
Check out the walk around video...   
Looks great for that money, quite impressed.
Only thing except for the loose cabling (they could be placed in cableducts) that looks what can be improved are the placer heads.
That looks a bit plastick toyish. If they can do CNC aluminium they could have made that a bit more robust.
Like these for instance: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/tear-down-of-an-assembleonphilips-pp-head/msg1287990/#msg1287990

Do they have top down camera in the head or do they have linear encoders mouted or solely rely on the steppermotor encoders ?

If it works, it works ofcourse  :-+

To be fair, you are comparing it with a $100,000. machine...

There is a camera in the head and 2 on the bed. Additionally there are linear encoders built into the x and y screw servos.

 

Offline Smallsmt

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #165 on: May 16, 2019, 11:13:28 am »
Check out the walk around video...   
Looks great for that money, quite impressed.
Only thing except for the loose cabling (they could be placed in cableducts) that looks what can be improved are the placer heads.
That looks a bit plastick toyish. If they can do CNC aluminium they could have made that a bit more robust.
Like these for instance: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/tear-down-of-an-assembleonphilips-pp-head/msg1287990/#msg1287990

Do they have top down camera in the head or do they have linear encoders mouted or solely rely on the steppermotor encoders ?

If it works, it works ofcourse  :-+

Our heads made from aluminium plus linear guide lines from steel.
We use AC Servo motors on X and Y axis using rotary encoder on the ball screw shaft!

Sure we have one top camera and 2 bottom cameras.

 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #166 on: May 16, 2019, 11:16:22 am »
I expect You will find the nozzles are metal not plastic.

I do not think plastic nozzles could be expected to perform at 0402 level of miniaturisation.
'
Nozzles are of Samsung provenance.
 

Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #167 on: May 19, 2019, 01:56:52 am »
first placements!

 
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Offline Kjelt

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #168 on: May 19, 2019, 01:04:27 pm »
When you get the chance I like to see a close up of that reel feedforward mechanism in action to the right  :)
 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #169 on: May 19, 2019, 01:14:11 pm »
You mean push feeder?

Just as a point of interest the push feeder can be programed to drive the tape in multiples of a  4mm push for larger pitch components.

On the other hand the pick up nozzle can be programed to pick up components from two adjacent spots 2mm apart on the push feeder so that 2mm pitch components can be handled.This means single push allows two 2mm pitch components to be fed.

 
 
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Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #170 on: May 20, 2019, 12:42:55 am »
When you get the chance I like to see a close up of that reel feedforward mechanism in action to the right  :)

I'll get you that soon.

Push feeders done. And with paper and plastic tapes. we'll see how the plastic tapes do???
currently working with the tube feeder (vibration).
 

Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #171 on: May 24, 2019, 04:38:11 am »
Sorry for the delay in information and updates, but i am currently busy with other projects. I will continue with the PNP machine next week. I still plan to do an in-depth review and hopefully video tutorials.
 
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Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #172 on: June 09, 2019, 10:42:19 pm »
After using the machine for a few weeks now, and getting everything dialed in, I think I have a much better understanding of its abilities. There was much to learn and I have learned a lot! I have made some mistakes and have asked some stupid questions. Michael has been very patient with me. But the machine is working great and is very accurate and fast. I believe the machine will be a great asset to my business.

At first the "Vision Placer" software seemed very complex, but now it all makes sense. I am completely comfortable with it now and can configure new parts easily.

I am supersized by the versatility of the machines configuration options when it comes to feeder types; cl, push, tray, tube and cut tape.

There is much to tell you about, but for now check out the latest video.... more to come ....
 
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Offline IconicPCB

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #173 on: June 10, 2019, 04:53:21 am »
Good to have Your point of view.
Our feeders are due to arrive by end of this week and the machine shortly after.

And then the fun starts... with a ...why...??
 

Offline revenue_controls

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Re: SmallSMT PNP adventure, learning and documenting
« Reply #174 on: June 10, 2019, 10:35:33 am »
Good to have Your point of view.
Our feeders are due to arrive by end of this week and the machine shortly after.

And then the fun starts... with a ...why...??

In the USA saying "why" means you are very happy with a result...

no.. it's obvious "the lights not on"...

feel free to contact me with any questions.
 


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