UK : Lots of test gear in Peaker Pattinson December collective auction

[mikeselectricstuff]

https://www.ppauctions.com/auction/418/december-collective-sale

[tggzzz]

For those unfamiliar, collection only so factor in travel or packing and shipping costs.

The storage is sometimes a farm barn. Quality not guaranteed, so prices ought to be lower rather than higher. I've had bargains, and things that only took 10mins to determine it was only fit for the OCXO and metalwork for an oven shelf

[armandine2]

..just had a quick look at the pictures on the flyer - some serious stuff.

..but, after my first "blooding" at one of their recent auctions, I'll be surprised if I;m bidding this soon again 

[killingtime]

I've bought quite a bit from ppauctions in the past.

A lot of their test gear tends to be at least 20 years old for some reason. 80/90s vintage. Hardly ever see any modern stuff. I also see listings from previous auctions re-advertised quite a bit, even though they sold. Google remembers the listing URLs so a quick search will often tell you if the item is a boomerang. I'll bet the non-working stuff just gets sent back for re-sale.

Also worth mentioning that there's 35.5% extra payable on the final hammer price. 20% of that is VAT.

[tggzzz]

A lot of their test gear tends to be at least 20 years old for some reason. 80/90s vintage. Hardly ever see any modern stuff.

And older: 60s and 70s stuff is there too. There is not much correlation between age and how well it works after being repaired/renovated.

A lot of it is stuff that has been languishing in some forgotten warehouses, kept "because it might come in useful". When the site is redeveloped, the stuff has to be moved.

I also see listings from previous auctions re-advertised quite a bit, even though they sold. Google remembers the listing URLs so a quick search will often tell you if the item is a boomerang. I'll bet the non-working stuff just gets sent back for re-sale.

Also worth mentioning that there's 35.5% extra payable on the final hammer price. 20% of that is VAT.

The suspicion is that there are (undisclosed) reserve prices, and the auctioneer takes "bids off the wall" to try to get the price up to the reserve price. Those techniques have long been common in auctions, and have been reincarnated in online auctions.

All auctions have "uplift", and it should be taken into account when bidding. Business buyers have the advantage that they can reclaim the VAT.

[armandine2]

..just had a quick look at the pictures on the flyer - some serious stuff.

..but, after my first "blooding" at one of their recent auctions, I'll be surprised if I;m bidding this soon again 

..I see a couple of presentable HP3400A s 

[reef.pi]

I have got a few times from them over the time. Mixed experience but overall bad.

Got a Racal Dana freauency counter, didn;t pass boot phase. Got a second one at a different auction, did not start at all. Now looking to geta  3rd one, maybe I can make a workable one.

Another frequency counter from EIP, did power up but not working, display shows some activity but that's about it. Bought a second one, this ine wen t in fumes, literaly at the first power on.

Bought HP multimeter, dont recall model but I can look up, display so dim it cant be read.

Im mostly after RF stuff for a hobby ham radio homebrew lab and I have tiought they could be a good source but I have sepnt some money and got nothing working really. Im at the point that I dont think it is safe to power whatever I buy form them. That's probably something that has a lot to do with the way they store units. Some stuff they sell still have labels attached, really old stuff.

Now, after those previous experiences I will not recommend them as a source for a newbie/hobbyst. I am also one of them and I know I need equipment I can safely use and trust rather than repair grade old electronics.

Finally, auction prices went higher and higher, to the point it beats Ebay on some items. Perhaps they have got clever at advertising it.

[tggzzz]

Now, after those previous experiences I will not recommend them as a source for a newbie/hobbyst. I am also one of them and I know I need equipment I can safely use and trust rather than repair grade old electronics.

I certainly wouldn't recommend PPA for a newbie or for someone who needs reliable equipment with traceable results. But I would say the same for almost all auctions, online and elsewhere.

OTOH, a hobbyist could have pleasure repairing the equipment, finding how it works, and ending up with something they could not otherwise afford.

Basically it is a gamble to buy anything from PPA, another online auction house, or even second-hand. The more useful questions involve "probability" and "affordable loss".

[grumpydoc]

Got a Racal Dana freauency counter, didn;t pass boot phase. Got a second one at a different auction, did not start at all. Now looking to geta  3rd one, maybe I can make a workable one.

I have a couple, what are you interested in?

Finally, auction prices went higher and higher, to the point it beats Ebay on some items. Perhaps they have got clever at advertising it.

I think it's the style of autction - haven't bought from them but did watch/bid on a few items & I recall they do the thing where a bit close to the end adds time (rather like an in-person auction). I reckon it gets way higher prices than an ebay style fixed ending point sale.

[reef.pi]

They add 2 or 3 minutes after someone bids in the last 3 ninutes? Blah, I dont know but you cant bid in the last few seconds and hipe you win, it adds 3 minutes extra time.

I find the above aproach fair, no more last second bids.

Ithis is from their invoice they send to me, if you have any of those Im interested:

I go two of these, the last one listed nelow the more recent:
EIP575 source locking microwave counter, 10Hz-18GHz (C68) 109 £193.00
EIP 545 microwave counter, 10Hz - 18Ghz, opt.05 £131.00
without their 15% premium and 20% VAT. All money went to flams, more like smoke actually.
So in the above I have actually paid £426 w/ fees, for 2 products that dont work.


And two of these, one locked with all LED on at startup and the seocnd not powering at all:
Racal Dana 1991 universal counter, paid £42 for one and £77 for second, again w/o their fees.

The HP model with very dim sisplay iis
HP 3478A digital multimeter (C20) £75.00

Also from the same auction
Metrix GX5000 programmable pulse generator, 50MHz in padded bag (C140) £60.00, looked new but not powering up.

[reef.pi]

I am biased after the negative experience, however, to make it fair, I have some equipment that actually works, altho not exactly bought them cheap

Keithley 2700 multimeter / data acquisition system with 7703 & 7705 cards (C499) 674  £358.00

TTI QL355TP PSU, 15v, 5A, 35v, 3A, 35v, 500mA (C382) 586 £212.00

Quartzlock 10A-R rubidium frequency standard 10MHz (A136) 510 £252.00

[tggzzz]

Finally, auction prices went higher and higher, to the point it beats Ebay on some items. Perhaps they have got clever at advertising it.

I think it's the style of autction - haven't bought from them but did watch/bid on a few items & I recall they do the thing where a bit close to the end adds time (rather like an in-person auction). I reckon it gets way higher prices than an ebay style fixed ending point sale.

Ebay-style sniping is a bit weird compared with other auction styles.

Personally I prefer the "extend deadline by two/fifteen minutes" whenever a new bid is made. That feels like a better balance between the buyers' and seller's competing interests. But it does mean you can be juggling bidding on several items simultaneously.

Whether PPAuctions gets higher prices than fleabay is not clear to me. If someone is going to Aunby to collect one item, it can be sensible to bid higher on other items (or to buy items you wouldn't have bought in isolation), simply so the transport costs are amortised over several items.

Except in Dutch auctions and tender auctions, the winning bid is determined by the second-highest bidder. If only one person is interested, they can get it for a song - unless there is a reserve price.

Auctions are appropriate for sellers that either don't know a sensible price or aren't prepared to wait to get the best price. Hence on fleabay I avoid selling via auctions - but I will approximate a Dutch auction by progressively lowering the price.

Overall the key points for me are: how much do I want X, and what's the probability that X will work. PPAuctions is less good than other places in the latter respect.

[grumpydoc]

Ebay-style sniping is a bit weird compared with other auction styles.

I guess like anything - the rules are public knowledge and in that sense "fair" and then you adjust tactics to get the best benefit for yourself.

I don't mind the style where the auction is extended by late bids but tend to find that stuff goes for more than I think it is worth - unless, as you say, there's no interest in the item when you might be able to grab a bargain with a cheeky bid.

[PlainName]

might be able to grab a bargain with a cheeky bid

Isn't that just another variation of snipe?

Notionally, you place one bid, which is your highest. Then it either wins at some price at or below that, or it's too low doesn't win. But bidders prefer to manually 'oh, just a bit more then' and get carried away. Sniping is not really any different: you snipe with your highest price and it either beats someone else doing that or it doesn't. The only real difference is that the manual 'just a bit more then' players, who are playing a different game, might lose out. But might not. And the seller hasn't a clue how it's going to go until it's done.

There is nothing wrong with sniping morally or technically. Just that some people don't like to lose the opportunity to pay far more than they would like to.

[reef.pi]

...
Overall the key points for me are: how much do I want X, and what's the probability that X will work. PPAuctions is less good than other places in the latter respect.

My experience with them got me to a point where I just can't trust that what they sell will last. Even items that work makes me feel anxious, because I expect them to fail, at some rather sooner than later point in time.

[grumpydoc]

might be able to grab a bargain with a cheeky bid

Isn't that just another variation of snipe?

I don't think so except maybe if you put it in very late in the auction.

Notionally, you place one bid, which is your highest. Then it either wins at some price at or below that, or it's too low doesn't win. But bidders prefer to manually 'oh, just a bit more then' and get carried away. Sniping is not really any different: you snipe with your highest price and it either beats someone else doing that or it doesn't. The only real difference is that the manual 'just a bit more then' players, who are playing a different game, might lose out. But might not. And the seller hasn't a clue how it's going to go until it's done.

Online auctions which follow the behaviour of in-person auctions and end only when bidding activity has ceased encourage "just one more bid" more than eBay style auctions.

eBay is an oddity - yes, I think you describe the best way to control your spend in any auction, not just eBay. Pick your maximum price and stick to it. Not everyone has that much willpower though, especially on an item they want badly. The desire to "win" also comes into play.

The proxy bidding system and sniping almost turn eBay into a sealed bid system - everyone submits their maximum bid and the highest wins. Except the price they pay is determined by the second highest bidder.

There is nothing wrong with sniping morally or technically. Just that some people don't like to lose the opportunity to pay far more than they would like to.

Agree there's nothing wrong with it - as I said it's just a tactic.

[PlainName]

The proxy bidding system and sniping almost turn eBay into a sealed bid system

Yes, effectively. Whether you  like that or not depends, I supposed, on whether you are there for the joy of bidding or just to win some item.

[tggzzz]

...
Overall the key points for me are: how much do I want X, and what's the probability that X will work. PPAuctions is less good than other places in the latter respect.

My experience with them got me to a point where I just can't trust that what they sell will last. Even items that work makes me feel anxious, because I expect them to fail, at some rather sooner than later point in time.

Old items do indeed tend to fail, where "item" is test equipment, cars, houses, people...

I factor that into my bidding, on PPAuctions and elsewhere.

[factory]

...
Overall the key points for me are: how much do I want X, and what's the probability that X will work. PPAuctions is less good than other places in the latter respect.

My experience with them got me to a point where I just can't trust that what they sell will last. Even items that work makes me feel anxious, because I expect them to fail, at some rather sooner than later point in time.

Old items do indeed tend to fail, where "item" is test equipment, cars, houses, people...

I factor that into my bidding, on PPAuctions and elsewhere.

Yes bid expecting it to be broken or a have a fault, I don't expect anything second-hand to be fully working, it's rare a seller can actually fully check something. As for buying vintage anything, you need to either know how to repair it (as it will fail at some point), or know someone you can pay to maintain it.

I've no problem with repairing stuff, sometimes there is a unobtainium or expensive to replace part that has failed, such as the failed 5340A power transformer. That 5340A was the worst item I've got from PP, it must have been used by a parts swapper, so many faulty boards.

David

[reef.pi]

Old items do indeed tend to fail, where "item" is test equipment, cars, houses, people...

In their case, I don't think it's something very wrong with the age of the item, but rather with the the way they handle and store it.

I factor that into my bidding, on PPAuctions and elsewhere.

That's good practice.

[tggzzz]

Old items do indeed tend to fail, where "item" is test equipment, cars, houses, people...

In their case, I don't think it's something very wrong with the age of the item, but rather with the the way they handle and store it.

Their storage is, um, sub-optimal and that certainly won't help. But old things do fail, and who knows where it was stored before it reached PPA.

Sometimes they organise auctions at other sites, and the storage there can be good. I got a very good 800MS/s HP logic analyser that way. Now I only have to worry that the Windows PC inside it might fail.

[reef.pi]

Very true, no history.

Some of those items have labels which could give an idea about item age, last calibration date, previous owner, etc. Guys at PPA just dont spend too much time with the photo sessions, espeically after arranging products in back to back rows, making impossible to take backside pictures where all the good labels are located.

I am wondering if they purposely do so, because I have seen multiple photos including closeup of the last year calibration date on a HP 3458A 8.5 digits which I think went for more than £3500. So they kind of know whats valuable for bidders to know, but make that information available only if there is a good chance it will raise the price.

Another example, this tiem a personal purchase. At the time of bidding I got no details on the Quartzlock I apart from a front sticker wich said NATO stock and some numbers which made me believe it has been properly maintained and had some good history. But, the big label attached to a handle, where one could have easily read 2006 as the last inspection year, it was not shown in photos. Personaly, I would have not bid if I had that extra bit of info.

[tggzzz]

Very true, no history.

Some of those items have labels which could give an idea about item age, last calibration date, previous owner, etc. Guys at PPA just dont spend too much time with the photo sessions, espeically after arranging products in back to back rows, making impossible to take backside pictures where all the good labels are located.

I am wondering if they purposely do so, because I have seen multiple photos including closeup of the last year calibration date on a HP 3458A 8.5 digits which I think went for more than £3500. So they kind of know whats valuable for bidders to know, but make that information available only if there is a good chance it will raise the price.

Another example, this tiem a personal purchase. At the time of bidding I got no details on the Quartzlock I apart from a front sticker wich said NATO stock and some numbers which made me believe it has been properly maintained and had some good history. But, the big label attached to a handle, where one could have easily read 2006 as the last inspection year, it was not shown in photos. Personaly, I would have not bid if I had that extra bit of info.

Standard practice. Caveat emptor.

I recently sold an 1888 dissecting microscope at a conventional specialist auction. There was domestic paint marks on the box lid, but the auction house's photos showed the interior with the lid open.

That's why it is useful to have several personal observations and opinions of things.

[woodchips]

I am amazed, people expecting an item at auction to be working and calibrated but cost tuppence! What world do you live in?

Firstly, PP are an auctioneer, not a test equipment supplier, they may recognise items but really have no idea exactly what they are having never used them.

Secondly, you just bid the amount YOU think the item is worth, no more. I have been astonished at the prices some items have reached, then plus the 40%, people must be nuts.

Thirdly, the person who enters the items for auction states what reserve price they want, possibly a range, and the auctioneere simply follow this instruction.

The curreent multiple sales seem to be from the old company Stewart of Reading, colected over decades, rather like that place in Bradford.

As has been said, buyer beware. But I have bought piles of stuff over the years, as Ramco, with no complaints.

Change to name of place in Reading, finally remembered.

[tggzzz]

I agree with most of that, but...

PPAuction does more than merely auction stuff; it also stores stuff before and after auction. Comparing the quality of the storage is therefore relevant. (Some people are under the misapprehension that if you put X into (self) storage then you will be able to take X out. Looking at the Ts&Cs should be enough to dispel that myth - sometimes you get less, sometimes you get more e.g. rats/mice and clothes moths)

The quality of auction houses' photos, descriptions, categorisation varies widely. For example my nearest house has seriously tatty stuff with poor descriptions; therefore I keep an eye out for bargains. Another nearby one does very good descriptions/photos/etc of antiques; therefore I sold much inherited stuff there.

Daughter wants to know how to sell my TE treasures without too much hassle; the alternative is her taking them to a tip. I don't have a good simple answer, beyond indicating what's good and low but realistic prices.

[woodchips]

PP doesn't deliberately store stuff, I have known lots to turn up in 5 cobsecutive auctions, each about 2 months apart, if it doesn't get the required price.

They have also just completley refurbished thier auction place, insulated now! Was a bit manky before, but you have been to Ramco, remember the site at Croft? What about the sales by Anchor Surplus?

I suppose that selling china and jewellry is easy, it is, test equipment, and machinery, is something else altogether. How do you check a digger to see if the track gearbox is ok? Got caught on that one.

[tggzzz]

Whether it is deliberately or not is, of course, irrelevant.

I was under the impression they were improving storage, but the barn needs more than a little work before it is suitable for electronics and similar.

My parents stuff had very little china and jewellery. I used to spray mothkiller on some items frequently. Their living room seriously creeped out one or two people with weak constitutions, and ambulance staff had heard about it and used to ask whether they could see it

Daughter went into one bric-a-brac shop, got talking with the owner and discovered that he had spotted one of their items in the auction. Their gharial now has a Tek 465 CRT on top of it, like a distorted mirror image

[veedub565]

The auction house storage isn't necessarily the best, although last time I went they had built a new barn to keep stuff in which seemed better than before.

It isn't always their fault though. The companies that owned this equipment originally don't always care about it very much. I've been to places where expensive RF gear is setup and used, basically in a shed. And the kit is full of dead flies and corrosion, the fans are seized. This then eventually gets binned off and sent to auction....

The company selling it have an overinflated opinion of what it's worth reserve price. And people pay top dollar for it, condition unknown.


I'm interested in the test port cables in this current auction, but there's no way of knowing if they are any good or not without testing them. They could be complete scrap.

It's a bit like gambling really, only bet/bid what you are prepared to lose.

[tggzzz]

The auction house storage isn't necessarily the best, although last time I went they had built a new barn to keep stuff in which seemed better than before.

It isn't always their fault though. The companies that owned this equipment originally don't always care about it very much. I've been to places where expensive RF gear is setup and used, basically in a shed. And the kit is full of dead flies and corrosion, the fans are seized. This then eventually gets binned off and sent to auction....

The company selling it have an overinflated opinion of what it's worth reserve price. And people pay top dollar for it, condition unknown.


I'm interested in the test port cables in this current auction, but there's no way of knowing if they are any good or not without testing them. They could be complete scrap.

It's a bit like gambling really, only bet/bid what you are prepared to lose.

Just so. All we can do is employ every means at our disposal to bias results in our favour.

Good luck w.r.t. your cables.

With PPA, one trick I use is that after I've won something I really like, I bid higher on more items that I might like. That amortises the travelling costs.

[reef.pi]

...
With PPA, one trick I use is that after I've won something I really like, I bid higher on more items that I might like. That amortises the travelling costs.

Do you happen to realy like some Agilent DAQ board?

[tggzzz]

...
With PPA, one trick I use is that after I've won something I really like, I bid higher on more items that I might like. That amortises the travelling costs.

Do you happen to realy like some Agilent DAQ board?

Yes, but not sufficiently to pay any money for it

[veedub565]

Well I won the test port cables I wanted. Fingers crossed they are ok, but being HP means they are at least 25 years old which s a long time for cables, I've seen ones much newer than that become intermittant. Or you get some gorilla overtightening the connectors... And I've seen they way people treat expensive 1mm connectors, and the disgusting state they are in. Hey ho, we shall see

Also won the R&S RSP step attenuator, we have a couple of these at work and they are really accurate. The connectors are on the rear which perhaps makes it less desirable, but isn't really an issue for me. May be possible to convert it back to front connectors.

Then I got carried away with the 8751A, E4423B, and one of the 3400A's   

I don't even need a 1Ghz ESG I've already got an 8341B and R&S SMG. Also got an 8753C and an 8510C, although the 8753C with it's s-parameter test set is a bit of a pain to drag out and setup every time and then it doesn't remember the screen colors... I'm thinking of ditching the 8753C and replacing it with the 8751A (if it works). 5hz to 500MHz is ok and then the 8510C will cover anything higher than that.


So I'll be having a trip down there at some point over the next week. I'm midlands based, PM me if I can help anyone with collection.

[tggzzz]

Gorillas have always been around, but at least manufacturers didn't feel the need to compromise on plasticisers.

Welcome to the rathole  and good luck

[veedub565]

Welcome to the rathole  and good luck

Ohh I definitely need help for my test equipment addiction      I get to play with all sorts of expensive, top of the line test equipment at work, for free! better I get paid for it. Then still want my own to play with at home. I don't understand it 

[tggzzz]

  I get to play with all sorts of expensive, top of the line test equipment at work, for free! better I get paid for it. Then still want my own to play with at home. I don't understand it 

Oh, having been in that position, I understand that syndrome only too well!

[reef.pi]

...So I'll be having a trip down there at some point over the next week. I'm midlands based, PM me if I can help anyone with collection.

I have only got 3 items, one from the BBC auction and two from the collective one, do you think you can collect and post them to London? (At my expense. of course)

None of them is really big and heavy, an Agilent switch module, a Keysight 34921A and few DVS Centarus 11 capture cards.

Thanks.

[veedub565]

PM sent