Would Refurbished Ex Demo Rigol units be of interest?

[Wuerstchenhund]

  Sorry but we don't make anywhere near that kind of margin on Rigol equipment to be able to offer that kind of discount.   Also the  equipment we are offering is practically new.  Keysight, R&S etc do an excellent job at refurbishing their equipment before sending out  but it is equipment that has been used quite a bit beforehand.

Refurbished Keysight gear that (like you said your Rigol items are) is less than a couple of years old not only looks like new, it also comes with full warranty (usually 3 years) (and for older kit which comes with shorter warranty you can buy additional coverage for actually quite modest prices). Most of these instruments have been returns/loaners/demo units and are therefore in pristine condition, and if not then Keysight puts them back into pristine condition. Plus you get the original box and accessories.manuals (often brand new).

And still they're often less than 50% off list price.

Frankly, if you can't afford to give something notably better than the few lousy percents then that suggests that your financial situation must be pretty precarious, which is a big worry when the only warranty you offer is one provided by your business which may well be out of business during the running period of that warranty. That's a very big red flag right there.

BTW: you claim this is refurbished equipment. Is this Rigol Refurbished, or by you? If the latter, could you please describe the refurbishment process?

[gmb42]

I'm again astonished by the (to me at least) nasty criticism about this sort of offer from a vendor.  If it's too rich for you just pass or if you must increase your post count just leave a message stating as such.  Do you also comment on every over-priced Ebay auction?

Calling into question the vendor's businesses viability is unnecessary and based on a simple offer of a price reduction of ex-demo units is likely to be ill-informed.  Similarly all the other suggestions on how to run their business are unnecessary.

Following the lead and descending into the personal, why are you even bothering Wuerstchenhund, you would never lower yourself to buy a Rigol?

[Brumby]

I agree that descending into speculation, especially with a malevolent tone, is completely uncalled for.

The answer to the thread title question: "Would Refurbished Ex Demo Rigol units be of interest?" is a qualified "yes".

That qualification could be bluntly expressed as "Not at the level of discount being offered".

The "Why not?" question that might be wanting to be asked can be best answered by these two threads (which were started after this one).....
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/rigol-clearance-stock/
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/up-to-85-off-high-performance-spectrum-analysers/

[Wuerstchenhund]

I'm again astonished by the (to me at least) nasty criticism about this sort of offer from a vendor.  If it's too rich for you just pass or if you must increase your post count just leave a message stating as such.

It works both ways, why are you even reading this thread if you don't like it? If you can't stand reading criticism or people pointing out legitimate issues with the offering or asking questions then just skip over it. No-one forces you to read it.

Fact is the vendor made a public offer and people are fully within their rights to state their opinion. As a business, if you can't stand being scrutinized then you shouldn't be in business, simple as that.

Calling into question the vendor's businesses viability is unnecessary and based on a simple offer of a price reduction of ex-demo units is likely to be ill-informed.  Similarly all the other suggestions on how to run their business are unnecessary.

Not if your only warranty is provided by the vendor like in this case, because if the seller goes bust then the warranty is useless. A not completely irrelevant point for something that was just some ~10% cheaper than a brand new item with full manufacturer warranty. That means the vendor's financial situation is somewhat relevant, and statements saying that they can't afford more than a few percentage off suggests that the situation might well be precarious (BTST too many times). Which makes a warranty provided by the vendor a somewhat risky proposition which should be taking into account.

Also, the seller claims the gear is "refurbished" while the text suggests that this is merely used equipment, not refurbished, which is why I asked for details. A lot of dodgy sellers are selling used gear as "refurbished" when they merely wiped off the dust.

Following the lead and descending into the personal, why are you even bothering Wuerstchenhund, you would never lower yourself to buy a Rigol?

Besides having owned Rigol gear in the past myself, the main reason I reply is because this forum does have a fair amount of newbies who probably have no idea what a realistic price is for 2nd hand gear. You might not care but I don't think it's helpful letting them run into getting ripped off without a warning.

The question is why are *you* even bothering? Do you have any stakes in that business, are the owners your friends, or are you just worried because after Brexit it'll probably be gone anyways? 

[PlainName]

people are fully within their rights to state their opinion

Doesn't good manners come into this? "Those prices are far too high for me" is one thing and "You have no idea how to run a business" is just armchair warrior speak. Would you say any of this stuff to someone's face? If not, it has no place here either.

why are you even reading this thread if you don't like it

Perhaps because there was some interest in a possible deal. Which is less likely to happen as the aggressive, verging on spiteful, attacks increase.

[Wuerstchenhund]

people are fully within their rights to state their opinion

Doesn't good manners come into this?

"Good manners" (which are a cultural construct) by what standards? Be aware this isn't a British forum, this is a forum with a truly global audience, with various cultures which all have slightly different opinions what make "good manners" (for example some cultures are more direct and it's considered polite to say what you think and being frank, while another may present a superficial but excessive politeness just to stab you in the back when you turn around).

""Those prices are far too high for me" is one thing and "You have no idea how to run a business" is just armchair warrior speak. Would you say any of this stuff to someone's face? If not, it has no place here either."

Besides these "quotes" are pretty much your interpretation (probably because you are already pre-opinioned), to answer your question: no, I wouldn't have problems giving my observations face to face. BTDT many times.

And frankly, if you really have hesitations telling a vendor if a price is too high for you then you should probably seek professional counselling. Seriously.

why are you even reading this thread if you don't like it

Perhaps because there was some interest in a possible deal. Which is less likely to happen as the aggressive, verging on spiteful, attacks increase.

So what stops you making a deal then? I guess the vendor will gladly sell you these items for the listed price, irrespective of the comments.

But I would suggest, instead of falling into silly hyperbole, you should spend a moment considering that not everyone asking questions or commenting on pricing is out to "get them", in fact you should seriously consider that maybe there are objective reasons for questioning the offer. For example, anyone who even knows the faintest bits about the T&M market knows that the offered discounts are ridiculously low (that's a given). Or that someone who acually has run and coached businesses may have a better understanding how precarious many smaller businesses operate, and with reason becomes a bit wary when a vendor publicly comments of affordability of what at the end are already miniscule discounts. Which, as stated before, is very relevant when your warranty depends on the vendor being in business throughout the warranty period. Or that there's a difference between a "refurbished" product and an used one, which means claiming a used piece of kit has been refurbished when it hasn't is fraud.

In short, you should always consider that your simplistic explanation of "aggression" and "spitefulness" may be wrong, that things are a bit more complicated than you imagine, and that maybe there are things you just don't know. And considering that I'm not the only one criticizing the offer, there's also the old saying "no smoke without fire".

[I4E]

I will comment more later  but you misunderstood the warranty. 

As distributors we bought the units brand new for our demo pool.  You can see the age of the units in the post  next to the title of the units.  All Rigol units come with a 3 year manufacturer's warranty . What I was saying was that for the first 12 months of the warranty for these particular units we  would support it meaning that you could send it back to us for repair here in Stockport.  However if we did go bust (which we aren't going to ) you would still be able to send it back to Rigol for the repair as the units are under warranty.   If you as the customer don't want to send the unit to us at all during the warranty period left on the unit then by all means you could still send it directly to Rigol. 


 Thanks

Joy

[orin]

FWIW, today, TEquipment are clearing out Rigol demos at 50% off and no, you don't get any other discount on top of that.

Couple of DSA815s left at $680.

That is an example of what people here would expect on ex-demo equipment.

Yeah, but it was a one day, end of year, inventory clearance special.  If you got one at that price, think of it as winning the lottery.  The DSA815 was almost tempting, all I had to do was add it to my cart and pay for it, but my HP 8568A boat anchor kicks its butt as far as phase noise is concerned and while it continues to function, I see no reason to replace it for my usage.

TEquipment also had a 30% off Rigol sale - but the 1054Z was excluded.  Don't expect deep discounts on the 1054Z - it looks like there is no margin there for the distributors.

Maybe I4E can beat up on Rigol and get some better discounts for the ex-demo equipment

[nctnico]

people are fully within their rights to state their opinion

Doesn't good manners come into this? "Those prices are far too high for me" is one thing and "You have no idea how to run a business" is just armchair warrior speak. Would you say any of this stuff to someone's face? If not, it has no place here either.

I think he has a point. Ex-demo equipment is usually discounted much further. I think the problem is that there are way too many Rigol dealers and many higher end equipment dealers use Rigol to fill in the blanks and not concentrate much on selling Rigol gear so they are not having a large turnover on Rigol gear in general. For example: the local Lecroy dealer over here also sells Rigol in order to try and keep customers who find Lecroy too expensive or doesn't match their needs.

[PlainName]

I think the problem is that there are way too many Rigol dealers

That is no doubt a problem for the vendor, but it has no relevance to the portion of my post that you quoted.

I think he has a point

What point would that be? That if you ask a price perceived as not being a stunning deal you are fair game for whatever abusive comments the faceless wonders deign to heap on you?

It is no different to some woman, particularly a politician, attracting the  horrendous rape and murder comments on twitter/facebook. Those posters really wouldn't say that to their face (which has been proven - it is not supposition) and it's being able to hide behind and screen along with being effectively anonymous that lets them think it's allowed. You read this and subconsciously its just text on a screen, a game, no real people involved. But there are. It is not a culture thing 'telling it like it is', it is simply not appreciating that you are conversing with an actual human with real feelings.

Just be polite. Doesn't cost anything and if you're wrong there's no harm done. The only reason to post the stuff we see in this thread is to feel superior to your target.

[tszaboo]

Doesn't good manners come into this?

OK, let's make this conversation compatible with the BS (British standard):
"We have a bloody nice weather, E mate?"
"Sure, lad, its been only raining for 14 days strait."
"..."
Conversation ends, they run out of topics they can discuss with good manners.