Author Topic: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!  (Read 16162 times)

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Offline GlennSprigg

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"Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« on: April 20, 2018, 01:08:22 pm »
We've ALL seen the CRAP on Youtube or what-ever.....
My DISCUSSION is about how normal society should RESPOND to them ??
Do we IGNORE them... or try to EDUCATE them ???????????????
It worries me how some people in this day and age can still be so ill-informed.....
WE.. (99.99999% of us, even if non-technical) accept certain basics. I actually
feel sorry for those who do not understand/accept.... and as a result I almost feel
it is my 'DUTY', not just my 'right', to inform/educate them ????
HOW can it BE, that in the year 2018, and within civilized/educated countries, that
'people' still think they are being 'fooled' by the Masses/'Powers-To-Be'.....
I'm not talking about certain Country's 'secrets', but the shape of the Earth !!!!!
Ours being ONE of many similarly spherical planets, (not to mention our Moon)
orbiting our spherical Sun etc etc etc...........

I want to HELP them UNDERSTAND !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Should we bother, or is it a lost cause...... (and if so, then why !!)
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2018, 01:18:57 pm »
I'd say ignore them, mostly.  Though they can be entertaining to argue with.  >:D

I still wonder if this thing is a global troll effort.  I kinda hope so.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2018, 01:26:20 pm »
Do we IGNORE them... or try to EDUCATE them ???????????????

Flat Earther... Scientology... Sovereign Citizens... it's all the same sort of bullshit. When have you ever know one to be "educated" in any sense of the word?

Those kinds of people generally hold extremist views, their "arguments" are fundamentally flawed and they probably have a screw or two loose in their head. No matter how much science, logic and facts you present to them, in their own twisted world, you'll be wrong.

The less air time they are given, the better. Those sorts of people are best ignored. They form an insignificant portion of the population anyway.

Also, don't try and understand any of it, because it's below normal human understanding and cognitive function. You'll just drive yourself nuts because your brain is capable of independent and rational thought.
 

Online Rerouter

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2018, 01:31:27 pm »
Both my sister, and my niece have subscribed to the idea, though part of me wonders if its just to troll me (I take photos of satellites crossing the moon)

My best response is, "Is the moon flat"? so far they have paused at that, because I'm not beating in my own info, but rather challenging there own.

Again, Personally taken high res images of the moon, pretty easy to see its not flat.
 

Online BillB

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2018, 01:32:48 pm »
There is a difference between holding obscure religious beliefs, or unusual interpretations of law, and subscribing to conspiracy theories.  Read three different papers on what personalities gravitate toward conspiracy theories and you'll get three completely different findings.

The takeaway is that this isn't necessarily a lack of knowledge, as many conspiracy theorists are more knowledgeable about the given subject than others, but a personality that usually rejects authority, may have self-esteem issues, and may be influenced by social inclusion/exclusion.  You aren't going to convince them with knowledge, logic, or persuasion. 
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2018, 01:45:46 pm »
There is a difference between holding obscure religious beliefs, or unusual interpretations of law, and subscribing to conspiracy theories.  Read three different papers on what personalities gravitate toward conspiracy theories and you'll get three completely different findings.

I'm not psychologist, but I tend to disagree.

I often find that those who are on the extreme end of the spectrum tend to be susceptible to all three (in varying levels). There are a lot of similarities between extreme religion, aversion to law/authority and perhaps some weird and wonderful thoughts with respect to the world/aliens/paranormal.

I'm not talking about your "normal" everyday, garden variety folks. If people want to believe that jebus, Allah etc... will look after them, more power to them. I'm specifically referring to those further down the spectrum where mental illness starts to become a more significant factor in their thought processes. I'm not suggesting that all Flat Earthers are mentally ill or that all mentally ill people believe the earth is flat, but there are strong correlations.
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2018, 01:59:20 pm »
I sincerely hope that the moderators use common sense and delete this bullshit thread, this crap has no place here and I do not understand why people continue to pollute the forum with this fucking garbage. 
 
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Online NANDBlog

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2018, 02:05:34 pm »
Here is an image of all the cognitive biases. You are expecting others to understand basic reasoning, and you expect them not to be complete idiots. At least some of them will be complete idiots. The issue is actually with you.
 

Online BillB

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 02:18:57 pm »
There is a difference between holding obscure religious beliefs, or unusual interpretations of law, and subscribing to conspiracy theories.  Read three different papers on what personalities gravitate toward conspiracy theories and you'll get three completely different findings.

I'm not psychologist, but I tend to disagree.

I often find that those who are on the extreme end of the spectrum tend to be susceptible to all three (in varying levels). There are a lot of similarities between extreme religion, aversion to law/authority and perhaps some weird and wonderful thoughts with respect to the world/aliens/paranormal.

I'm not talking about your "normal" everyday, garden variety folks. If people want to believe that jebus, Allah etc... will look after them, more power to them. I'm specifically referring to those further down the spectrum where mental illness starts to become a more significant factor in their thought processes. I'm not suggesting that all Flat Earthers are mentally ill or that all mentally ill people believe the earth is flat, but there are strong correlations.

Hmmm.  While I agree that there are similarities in how we perceive those with non-conformist views, how and why they adopt those views are very different.  Plus, given the proliferation and popularity of these theories, subscribers aren't as far down the "spectrum" as you might believe.  For example, I had a new HVAC system installed by a very nice, competent, seemingly reasonable fellow.  At the end of his visit, we wound up on the subject of the moon landing.  He attempted to articulately and logically convince me that it was all faked.  This is certainly less of a case of mental illness than it is a combination of a distrust of authority combined with a poor grasp of classical logic.

I think the correlation you see is the inability or unwillingness to view the particular subject rationally; they compartmentalize it.  We as humans have an amazing ability to tolerate cognitive dissonance.

I also think we should make Logic a required, must-pass subject in our education system.

 
 

Offline The Soulman

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2018, 02:29:35 pm »
I sincerely hope that the moderators use common sense and delete this bullshit thread, this crap has no place here and I do not understand why people continue to pollute the forum with this fucking garbage.

I agree, in the meantime:

<--------------   lol.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2018, 02:50:04 pm »
I sincerely hope that the moderators use common sense and delete this bullshit thread, this crap has no place here and I do not understand why people continue to pollute the forum with this fucking garbage.

Agreed.
 

Offline Terabyte2007

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2018, 02:56:24 pm »
I am stunned that this is even still discussed. It's like free energy! Anyone with a basic high school education in the laws of physics should be able to understand why this is BS.  :palm:
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Online rstofer

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2018, 03:20:47 pm »
We've ALL seen the CRAP on Youtube or what-ever.....
My DISCUSSION is about how normal society should RESPOND to them ??
Do we IGNORE them... or try to EDUCATE them ???????????????

Never try to teach a pig to sing!  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2018, 09:36:14 pm »
I'd say ignore them, mostly.  Though they can be entertaining to argue with.  >:D

I still wonder if this thing is a global troll effort.  I kinda hope so.

It's both a nation state sponsored trolling activity and a more organic spouting of idiocy from religious and conspiracy nuts.  Add in a percentage of just plain stupid people and this is what you get.

Ignoring them would be best, but they know that spamming every video about space or NASA or science will produce the desired response and if it doesn't they know to be more offensive to get the response they want. 

As far as the trolling is concerned, I mentioned nation state involvement and I feel there's little need to elaborate on who and why, but in addition to nation state trolling there are domestic sponsored trolls who's aim is not far different than the nation state sponsored trolls.  The nation state actors want to get the west to doubt any and all authority including leaders in the science world.  The domestic trolls just want people to focus on something other than the dirty deeds there sponsors are doing. 


Brian
 

Offline Ampera

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2018, 09:58:12 pm »
Most of this is just a joke.

However I don't believe we should have any problem with the majority of people growing stupider and stupider. It just makes it easier for the smart people who remain to take advantage of everybody and RULE THE FLAT WORLD!  :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2018, 11:33:15 pm »
I sincerely hope that the moderators use common sense and delete this bullshit thread, this crap has no place here and I do not understand why people continue to pollute the forum with this fucking garbage.

Garbage yes and as I said, the less air time nut cases get, the better. However this particular forum doesn't really attract those types. I see no reason why we should simply delete threads which feature this kind of "crap". If that were the case, every thread about Apple would be deleted also.  ;D  :box:
 

Offline G0HZU

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2018, 12:06:23 am »
Quote
The takeaway is that this isn't necessarily a lack of knowledge, as many conspiracy theorists are more knowledgeable about the given subject than others, but a personality that usually rejects authority, may have self-esteem issues, and may be influenced by social inclusion/exclusion.  You aren't going to convince them with knowledge, logic, or persuasion. 

Yes, I suspect that many of them cling to their views as a form of comfort blanket. This allows them to feel superior in various ways to those around them. It's probably a form of coping mechanism (for low self esteem?) and they won't want to let go of that blanket easily :)
 

Online TerraHertz

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2018, 12:40:19 am »
Here is an image of all the cognitive biases.

Nice diagram! Too bad there's no clickable linkage between items in the circle, and the explanatory texts.
Anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
And by the way I notice that over time, a lot of the Wiki texts on specific biases got significantly watered down.

Incidentally, it's not "all" the cognitive biases. New ones being discovered continually. The human brain is a appalling evolutionary hack. Hopefully Version 2 will be an improvement.

I know of at least one that has never been included: The unrecognized  irrational assumption that 'a society of individuals of a common species, such as the human species, forming an industrialized civilization, is the only possible basis for existence of technologically advanced space-faring sentient entities.'  This is the fundamental logical flaw on which The Fermi Paradox depends. Re-framing the question without that cognitive bias eliminates the paradox, by showing that the effects we are searching for with SETI, etc, are certainly not reliable indicators of the presence or absence of advanced technological sentience. Their absence only indicates the non-existence of technological _species-based_ civilizations.  Call it the Star Trek Effect, for want of a better name.

Quote
You are expecting others to understand basic reasoning, and you expect them not to be complete idiots. At least some of them will be complete idiots. The issue is actually with you.
Actually no, it's another cognitive bias. (Not sure which particular name.)  The tendency of intelligent people moving in social circles of other intelligent people, to fail to comprehend how very much poorer is the average (and lower) person's reasoning ability and knowledge base.


I sincerely hope that the moderators use common sense and delete this bullshit thread, this crap has no place here and I do not understand why people continue to pollute the forum with this fucking garbage.

The Flat Earth proposition is fucking garbage, but discussion of exactly why it persists, is critically important. Specifically because so many people's understanding of 'why', is about as naive as the flat-Earther's 'logic.' The reality behind the garbage is really quite complex, and the issues are very important factors in what is happening with modern society. It would be good if more people came to an understanding of just what is going on with this.  'Good' in the sense that failing an improvement in understanding of the generalized 'social worldview manipulation tools' being deployed and resulting in things like the Flat Earth garbage, Western technological civilization and freedoms are doomed.

I also think we should make Logic a required, must-pass subject in our education system.
Absolutely. Yet this doesn't happen. Why? Who benefits? (Hint: It's not because of the cost of the necessary lab equipment in schools, ie none.)

Is Flat Earth garbage 'trolling'?
Sometimes, but usually not.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trolling   Extract:
Quote
The most essential part of trolling is convincing your victim that either a) truly believe in what you are saying, no matter how outrageous, or b) give your victim malicious instructions, under the guise of help.
Trolling requires decieving; any trolling that doesn't involve decieving someone isn't trolling at all; it's just stupid. As such, your victim must not know that you are trolling; if he does, you are an unsuccesful troll.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll   Extract:
Quote
In Internet slang, a troll (/troʊl, trɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion,[3] often for the troll's amusement.

So as for Trolling, we can exclude the poor fools who actually took on board and came to believe the garbage. Call them the useful idiots, because they _are_ being useful to the next group.

Also excluded from simple trolls, is anyone pushing the garbage for reasons deeper than personal amusement. For instance someone doing it for pay, or ideological motivations, doesn't count as trolling. And that group, are the core originators of this garbage.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society."
-- Edward Bernays, 'father' of modern public relations (PR), on government propaganda.

"I have the greatest admiration for your propaganda. Propaganda in the West is carried out by experts who have had the best training in the world -- in the field of advertizing -- and have mastered the techniques with exceptional proficiency ... Yours are subtle and persuasive; ours are crude and obvious ... I think that the fundamental difference between our worlds, with respect to propaganda, is quite simple. You tend to believe yours ... and we tend to disbelieve ours."
-- a Soviet correspondent based five years in the U.S.

"It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion."
-- Joseph Goebbels (1897-1945)
http://everist.org/archives/links/_Propaganda_about.txt

So what are the motives of the originators of Flat Earth rubbish on the Net?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well

Note that this Wiki article has been fine tuned to avoid mention of a key application of Well Poisoning. The technique is more often used to discredit information sources, than to just smear individuals.
Filling the Net with references to Flat Earth garbage, is classic Well Poisoning. It makes sensible people recoil in disgust and confusion from Net forums where they see any mention of it. It makes the forum members who don't recoil, waste their time in pointless arguments over garbage, rather than address significant, real issues. It degrades the entire intellectual environment. It tarnishes by association the entire concept of 'people who pursue truths contrary to official narratives.' (Especially when combined with thought-jamming slogans like 'conspiracy theorist.')

The Flat Earth garbage is just one of many modern propaganda efforts, along with 'no Moon Landings', Hollow Earth, Planet Nibiru, and many others. All of them with a common motivation - to hobble the Net's part in the global awakening of free-thinking political awareness. Which by definition is always an enemy of the current ruling Elites, the status quo, and the continued suppression of public knowledge of the Elite's many heinous crimes against humanity.

(Apologies for multiple edits. Difficult to express clearly, etc.)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 01:58:06 am by TerraHertz »
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Offline Distelzombie

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2018, 02:26:20 am »
I sincerely hope that the moderators use common sense and delete this bullshit thread, this crap has no place here and I do not understand why people continue to pollute the forum with this fucking garbage.

Garbage yes and as I said, the less air time nut cases get, the better. However this particular forum doesn't really attract those types. I see no reason why we should simply delete threads which feature this kind of "crap". If that were the case, every thread about Apple would be deleted also.  ;D  :box:
Yea, don't forget my happy thread in signature where you can read the entire "Bee Movie"-movie in one moving line for some reason. Nobody wants to delete that. It's just a very perfect creation and I get appreciation from everywhere.

No seriously, now that the forum is on a better server there is just no justification to remove any thread, as long as it complies with the sub-section. And this one does.

Online Bud

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2018, 02:49:48 am »
Ignoring them would be best, but they know that spamming every video about space or NASA or science will produce the desired response and if it doesn't they know to be more offensive to get the response they want. 

As far as the trolling is concerned, I mentioned nation state involvement and I feel there's little need to elaborate on who and why

Yes yes, it was NASA who discovered the Earth is round.

And yes about state involvement in faking things there is even a Wikipedia page about who and why

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capricorn_One#Plot
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2018, 02:52:54 am »
The Flat Earth proposition is fucking garbage, but discussion of exactly why it persists, is critically important. Specifically because so many people's understanding of 'why', is about as naive as the flat-Earther's 'logic.' The reality behind the garbage is really quite complex, and the issues are very important factors in what is happening with modern society. It would be good if more people came to an understanding of just what is going on with this.  'Good' in the sense that failing an improvement in understanding of the generalized 'social worldview manipulation tools' being deployed and resulting in things like the Flat Earth garbage, Western technological civilization and freedoms are doomed.

Exactly this. I couldn't have put it better myself.

One could argue that religion is fiction/non-fiction or that climate change does/doesn't exist... The notion itself might be garbage but the deeper analysis and debate is important. It's like exercise for critical thinkers.
 

Online xrunner

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2018, 02:53:20 am »
Well, if the Earth is flat, then I'd ask them where can I go to get to the edge of this flat Earth? Has anyone been there? Can you look underneath, etc ...
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2018, 02:54:45 am »
Can you look underneath, etc ...

Oh you don't want to see underneath. Have you looked under your fridge lately or under your rugs? It's the same stuff.

Also it's dark and there could be spiders.
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2018, 03:03:03 am »
Ignoring them would be best, but they know that spamming every video about space or NASA or science will produce the desired response and if it doesn't they know to be more offensive to get the response they want. 

As far as the trolling is concerned, I mentioned nation state involvement and I feel there's little need to elaborate on who and why

Yes yes, it was NASA who discovered the Earth is round.

And yes about state involvement in faking things there is even a Wikipedia page about who and why

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capricorn_One#Plot


Once again, Bud, WTF are you going on about?


Brian
 

Offline Distelzombie

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2018, 03:04:36 am »
They think theres a high ice wall surrounding the southpole. and you cant get close to it because theres also a huge fleet of ships blocking everyone off. Just because, I assume


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