Author Topic: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!  (Read 16164 times)

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Offline Johnboy

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #125 on: May 03, 2018, 12:24:21 am »
Don't get me wrong. I feel that a certain amount of skepticism about "conventional wisdom" is healthy. I once got into a regrettable argument with a very attractive female after she snidely called me an "empiricist" for disagreeing with her take on the inherent validity of religious texts (she was a junior missionary).

I've come to believe that some people desperately need to believe in something that they can fully wrap their mind around (not a sphere, in this case). Some things seem simply too complicated for some people to accept, so a simpler (or at least more esoteric) model explains those questions, and the concept of possessing "secret" and "hidden" knowledge is one that has always been a major draw for those who create. Yet it can also be destructive, of course. It's a mixed bag.

"He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom."
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #126 on: May 03, 2018, 03:08:39 am »
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
-- Voltaire

Relevant to the proposition that there actually are people working to make many people believe in absurdities.
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Online Electro Detective

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #127 on: May 03, 2018, 09:56:55 am »
It's amazing that there are no Flat or Slightly Curved Earthers here to defend their faith or belief    ???

Or maybe there are, and waiting for the right moment to pump the Round Earthers with their reality?    >:D

As I've stated at another FE post/thread, there must be cash in it otherwise why bother persisting with dis-information?  :-//

Do the Flearthers have a Patreon thing happening?   gotta eat, right?  :popcorn:
 

Offline Distelzombie

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #128 on: May 03, 2018, 11:32:08 am »
Do the Flearthers have a Patreon thing happening?   gotta eat, right?  :popcorn:
They're called "Flattards" And sometimes they Indiegogo campaigns and stuff for whatever reason... Like: Hey, finance me so that I'll be able to travel into space to see for myself."

Offline Johnboy

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #129 on: May 03, 2018, 02:06:01 pm »
Regarding pilots, I followed the link HighVoltage posted and was astonished by the following declaration:

There are a lot of newcomers to Flat Earth, who have a hard time accepting it mainly because they cannot see how all the pilots and scientists be part of a such conspiracy.They think someone will blow the whistle.
   And some do.There are paleontologists who proved that the so-called dinosaur bones have soft tissue, and sometimes even remains of blood vessels.And those paleontologists did not stopped to just proving that, but also presented those proofs to their higher echelons.They were asked to stop, and if not, they will be fired.Some of them did not stopped…and they got fired.After that they went public in presenting their findings.
   I believe that at this point in time, a lot of pilots and scientists are flat earthers, but they know that it will cost them the job if they open up about Flat Earth.However, times are changing, and changing rapidly.The Flat Earth community is HUGE.It is the biggest community out there.Bigger than gay people.And it keeps growing, at a faster pace than a year ago, when it was already exponentially growing.
   The time will come (very soon, less than 2 years) when our community will represent a significant percentage of worldwide adult population (at least 35-40 % by 2020, if not sooner) and not if, but when this will happen, a truckload of pilots and scientists will open up publicly supporting Flat Earth.


Let's see... bandwagon sales approach, check. Ad hoc statistical argument, check. Appeal to diversity (and implication of persecution), check. Allegations of widespread secrecy on the part of the scientific community, check.

How many pilots do you know? Do they ever look at each other meaningfully when the topic of navigation comes up, or kick each other under the table as a reminder to keep silent?

That video is also a scream, as it's loaded with "persuasive" imagery.  :palm:

 

Offline Seph.b

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #130 on: May 03, 2018, 04:42:38 pm »
The earth up of hexagonal tiles. Anyone that has play a turn based strategy game knows that.
 

Offline apis

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #131 on: May 03, 2018, 04:46:20 pm »
It was revealing to hear that pilot explain how she became a flat earth believer. Her son got sick after vaccination, so she lost faith in authority. She then started reading flat earth nonsense on the internet that asked questions about phenomena she didn't know the answer to/couldn't explain. She then realised that most of what she knew was things she had just taken at face value from authoritative sources. Once she had started questioning authority why should she not question everything she had been told and why not believe these people saying the earth is flat instead?

I think that is exactly the same reason people fall for things like creationism. They have been going to school and listened to one figure of authority (the teacher) preaching about Darwinism and the scientific method. Then later they go to church and listen to another figure of authority preaching about creationism. Why is the former better than the latter?

I think that one major problem with school (the ones I know of at least) is that they just teach the children to respect authority and imitate/memorize things. Because of that it is perfectly natural for people to just replace that authority with another in the future, especially when they inevitably realise that the teacher was wrong at times.

Most things we learn are not obvious or intuitive though, if it was we wouldn't have to learn it. So we unfortunately have to accept what we are told. Trying to verify everything ourselves is so resource intensive that it's not really an option (how many can verify the existence of the Higgs boson themselves?), we have to resort to trusting authoritative sources. (Which in turn makes the quality of those sources incredibly important).

What schools should also be doing though is to teach people WHY they should believe the things they are told (the scientific method), and not just randomly made up BS, since that is not at all obvious to most people. Even many scientists doesn't understand the scientific method, they just repeat a formula they have learned to imitate. (Feynman wrote a paper once about what he called cargo cult science). I would say it's more important to make people understand how science works and why (and to what extent) they should believe in scientific results than it is to teach them the actual theory.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 05:11:50 pm by apis »
 

Offline apis

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #132 on: May 03, 2018, 04:53:21 pm »
The earth up of hexagonal tiles. Anyone that has play a turn based strategy game knows that.
And since there is no way to tile a sphere with hexagons it follows that the earth can not be round!
 

Offline Seph.b

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #133 on: May 03, 2018, 04:56:25 pm »
The earth up of hexagonal tiles. Anyone that has play a turn based strategy game knows that.
And since there is no way to tile a sphere with hexagons it follows that the earth can not be round!

Finally someone with critical thinking skills.


/s just in case.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #134 on: May 03, 2018, 05:11:40 pm »
Hmmm, if you use hexagons and pentagons you get pretty round like a sphere.
Or at least nobody that I know of, has complained that soccer ball is not round.
So, may be each hexagon and each pentagon is flat, LOL


 
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Offline BillB

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #135 on: May 03, 2018, 05:26:08 pm »
I smell  a money-making opportunity!  Obviously, flat-earthers wouldn't rely on GPS systems so I plan on bringing to market the F.E.P.S (Flat Earth Positioning System) (Patent-Pending!)

It will look and operate exactly like the false GPS units, except the fake "global" coordinate calculations will be replaced by more accurate flat earth coordinates.  While the numbers may appear very similar, trust me, they will be highly accurate for traveling on our flat Earth.

 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #136 on: May 03, 2018, 08:31:51 pm »
Hmmm, if you use hexagons and pentagons you get pretty round like a sphere.
Or at least nobody that I know of, has complained that soccer ball is not round.
So, may be each hexagon and each pentagon is flat, LOL

Technically, the Earth is made of tectonic plates, which, while curved, do have edges. So the Earth can be said to have edges where plates collide (mountain ranges and trenches). >:D
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #137 on: May 03, 2018, 11:18:02 pm »
Speaking of tilings of Earth, and projections, here's a very nice graphical interactive site.
  https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/overlay=temp/orthographic=-229.13,4.86,169

It's a weather visualization site, that in itself is beautiful. But it has a surprisingly large range of projection options.
Click on the "Earth" at lower left. (It's a hamburger pop-up menu. Click on "Earth" again to hide it.)
At the bottom is the Projection menu. Mouse-over the options listed, to see their full names. Try them, and try rolling the Earth around  (mouse and click-drag on the world) to see how they work.

Of course none of this would make any impression on a Flat-Earther. But it's fun.

For actual weather, https://www.ventusky.com/?p=-36.7;149.6;3&l=rain-3h&t=20180504/00
is more useful, since it includes predictive timeline options.
Collecting old scopes, logic analyzers, and unfinished projects. http://everist.org
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #138 on: May 03, 2018, 11:29:53 pm »
The earth up of hexagonal tiles. Anyone that has play a turn based strategy game knows that.
And since there is no way to tile a sphere with hexagons it follows that the earth can not be round!

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/16808254/nets-of-geodesic-spheres
Sure there is! (You forgot to specify whether the hexagons must be symmetrical.)
Edit: Oops! No, there are still pentagons. Curses.

Btw, google images: geodesic tessellation sphere
Pretty!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2018, 11:42:43 pm by TerraHertz »
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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #139 on: May 04, 2018, 12:11:27 pm »
Thanks to 'ebastler' & 'Brumby', and all others since my last comment !  :)
Yep... I did start it, and was only speaking tongue-in-cheek  :D
It has been an interesting variation since then, as I'm learning German too.
They have sayings like others do of course...  My favorite that I learnt from a German friend was....
    "sprich durch die Blumen"  (I think?!), literally meaning   "speaking through the flowers". (?)
He explained it thus.....   "Imagine there is a big bunch of flowers in front of your face, that inputs
the maybe crude & unflattering words you are actually saying, but the other side of the flowers is
emanating something more beautiful and sensual that the 'lady' might prefer to hear!! "   hahha..
I love (and aspire) to that !!!  Ain't language grand !!!!!   :D

OH!!!... and I loved the question about 'Flat-Earth' 'PILOTS' !!!!!

And  P.S.   When I quoted......
"There was movement at the Station, as the Colt from old Regret had got away !!! "
For the non-Aussies, that was a quote from one of our famous poets,......
 "Banjo" Paterson (1864 - 1941)     "The Man From Snowy River".       
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 12:17:37 pm by GlennSprigg »
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #140 on: May 04, 2018, 12:57:56 pm »
I have little tollerance for idiots like Flat Earthers, other conspiracy theorists and not to mention the variety of religious nutters. There was a time in our pre-history when such stupidity or gross errors in judgement were fatal and we as a species are better for that. One could only wish for such a limitation these days because clearly our collective mental processes are suffering..
 

Online ebastler

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2018, 02:37:22 pm »
I have little tollerance for idiots like Flat Earthers, other conspiracy theorists and not to mention the variety of religious nutters. There was a time in our pre-history when such stupidity or gross errors in judgement were fatal and we as a species are better for that. One could only wish for such a limitation these days because clearly our collective mental processes are suffering..

You are on a slippery slope towards "let's go and kill all the idiots" there...  :-\
 
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Offline apis

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2018, 02:39:00 pm »
I have little tollerance for idiots like Flat Earthers, other conspiracy theorists and not to mention the variety of religious nutters. There was a time in our pre-history when such stupidity or gross errors in judgement were fatal and we as a species are better for that. One could only wish for such a limitation these days because clearly our collective mental processes are suffering..
I don't think there ever was such a time (alright, there probably wasn't any vegans back then but), around here they used to sacrifice humans in swamps to appease the gods. That didn't stop them (well, except for the people ending up in the swamp... but chances are that was the better part of the population). Mosquitoes and rats aren't smart but they are still more evolutionary successful than humans. Evolution isn't something that should be idealised, it's just an explanation for the origin of species.

What we need (i.e. what would improve life for everyone) is systems that reward rational and ethical behaviour. Society still just reward greed and ignorance, bullies and sociopats.
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2018, 03:02:49 pm »
I have little tollerance for idiots like Flat Earthers, other conspiracy theorists and not to mention the variety of religious nutters. There was a time in our pre-history when such stupidity or gross errors in judgement were fatal and we as a species are better for that. One could only wish for such a limitation these days because clearly our collective mental processes are suffering..

You are on a slippery slope towards "let's go and kill all the idiots" there...  :-\

I was not inferring any action by a third party, just that responsibility should lie entirely with the people concerned and that failure to think things out clearly should lead to (natural) consequences for them. It would improve our gene pool considerably - even perhaps encourage responsibilty for what we are doing to our own planet. Nature is very unforgiving.

As a society we are over-protective of potential risk, folk take it for granted things will be safe (and sue someone if they get hurt).
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 03:08:31 pm by ChrisLX200 »
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2018, 03:03:56 pm »
I have little tollerance for idiots like Flat Earthers, other conspiracy theorists and not to mention the variety of religious nutters. There was a time in our pre-history when such stupidity or gross errors in judgement were fatal and we as a species are better for that. One could only wish for such a limitation these days because clearly our collective mental processes are suffering..

If evolution were to determine those that you wish to be rid off were unnecessary then don't you think it would have? Yet they exist.

Clearly something about different ways of thinking has some benefit to the species for that reason alone. And you weren't told.

I'd apply the same argument to any group you can name that you think we'd be better off without. Because they exist there is a benefit.

It is not WHAT they believe. It is that they believe it that is important.

There's time yet. Nature can be patient up to a point.
 

Offline apis

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2018, 03:34:50 pm »
I have little tollerance for idiots like Flat Earthers, other conspiracy theorists and not to mention the variety of religious nutters. There was a time in our pre-history when such stupidity or gross errors in judgement were fatal and we as a species are better for that. One could only wish for such a limitation these days because clearly our collective mental processes are suffering..

If evolution were to determine those that you wish to be rid off were unnecessary then don't you think it would have? Yet they exist.

Clearly something about different ways of thinking has some benefit to the species for that reason alone. And you weren't told.

I'd apply the same argument to any group you can name that you think we'd be better off without. Because they exist there is a benefit.

It is not WHAT they believe. It is that they believe it that is important.
Diversity has always been a big evolutionary advantage since it makes it much more likely that at least some individuals will be able to adapt to sudden changes in the environment.
 

Offline apis

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2018, 03:59:02 pm »
I have little tollerance for idiots like Flat Earthers, other conspiracy theorists and not to mention the variety of religious nutters. There was a time in our pre-history when such stupidity or gross errors in judgement were fatal and we as a species are better for that. One could only wish for such a limitation these days because clearly our collective mental processes are suffering..

You are on a slippery slope towards "let's go and kill all the idiots" there...  :-\

I was not inferring any action by a third party, just that responsibility should lie entirely with the people concerned and that failure to think things out clearly should lead to (natural) consequences for them. It would improve our gene pool considerably - even perhaps encourage responsibilty for what we are doing to our own planet. Nature is very unforgiving.

As a society we are over-protective of potential risk, folk take it for granted things will be safe (and sue someone if they get hurt).
Well, I'm going to continue to help my fellow men. Not because cultures where people cooperate and help each other out are going to be much more successful in the long run (although I also believe that to be true), but because what matters isn't the gene pool but rather the well being of sentient beings.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2018, 06:52:25 pm »
Some of these idiots even spend lots of money and build their own rocket...

ABC Action News
California man launching homemade rocket to prove Earth is flat





There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline ChrisLX200

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2018, 06:57:16 pm »
Some of these idiots even spend lots of money and build their own rocket...

ABC Action News
California man launching homemade rocket to prove Earth is flat



Notice it is to 'Prove the falsehood' - not to test the hypothesis one way or the other.  :palm:
 

Offline Seph.b

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2018, 07:07:33 pm »
Some of these idiots even spend lots of money and build their own rocket...

ABC Action News
California man launching homemade rocket to prove Earth is flat



Notice it is to 'Prove the falsehood' - not to test the hypothesis one way or the other.  :palm:

That guy was going this rocket project for years before he found the deep pockets of the flat earthers. I don't really think he cares at all about there cause, but if they will give him money he will pretend to. Just one kook taking advantage other other kooks.
 


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