Author Topic: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!  (Read 16203 times)

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Online Cyberdragon

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #225 on: May 10, 2018, 08:20:37 am »
I’m convinced the majority of them are trolls,

and the YouTube community surrounding it are after some easy low life money.


Yeah   :-+   
them and the alien UFO illuminutty floggers need to go easy on the crack pipe

delete their BS to free up some Youtube bandwidth 

and do something constructive and useful with their free  (tax payer funded)  time

like taking out the trash, burying the dog, trim mums toenails,

repairing their trailer

and get the dunny working again  ::)

I can see them trying to haul their trailer to a "high class" trailer park and having something like on Top Gear happen. *SMASH* >:D
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 
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Offline niladherbert

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #226 on: May 11, 2018, 11:37:23 am »
Quote
Yeah   :-+   
them and the alien UFO illuminutty floggers need to go easy on the crack pipe

delete their BS to free up some Youtube bandwidth 

and do something constructive and useful with their free  (tax payer funded)  time

like taking out the trash, burying the dog, trim mums toenails,

repairing their trailer

and get the dunny working again  ::)

Really we don't want the continued deletions of anything deemed offensive on youtube. What really is needed is a division of youtube where part has a really obvious disclaimer where it is purely for entertainment and is opinion rather than evidence based, and a (probably much smaller) part which is science and research based. That solution should work until we find a way to fully decentralize distribution of information
As for those that are supported by the taxes of others, it really isn't any goverments job to keep them. If you think thats uncharitable, you should give this a read: https://www.shtfinfo.com/shtffiles/books_and_reading/Jerry%20Johnson%2C/Davy%20Crockett%20is%20Dead%21%20%2880%29/Davy%20Crockett%20is%20Dead%21%20-%20Jerry%20Johnson%2C.pdf
Anyhow freedom of speech for all, although others should be permitted to 'flag' to others that the content is, in their opinion, utter rot
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #227 on: May 11, 2018, 12:15:29 pm »
Really we don't want the continued deletions of anything deemed offensive on youtube.

Agreed. The problem with that approach is that hucksters would waste no time in having everything that questions their junk science deleted.  You would then not be allowed to question magnet motors. Or that wind turbines can both stop a 300m sea level rise and power a spacecraft to Mars. 
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #228 on: May 22, 2018, 12:03:18 pm »
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1805/TerminatorMoon_Zia_1176.jpg

Just a beautiful hi-res image of the Moon in half phase, highlighting the mountains and craters along the terminator.

I'm pretty sure Flat Earthers never browse through the vast archive of quality space pics at Astronomy Picture Of The Day https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/archivepix.html
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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #229 on: May 22, 2018, 12:26:45 pm »
Hmmm...  I guess I can only repeat the saying....   "...Never the Twain shall meet..."
I'm not sure what I expected from this 'Post', but aspects of it were obvious......
I guess I, and others here, were just VENTING obvious FRUSTRATION...........

The PROBLEM is, that we are NOT talking about say 300 to 2000 years ago, when we
'Knew Nothing', and thought we were 'Doing Good' by burning heretic witches at the
stake, and condemning the likes of Copernicus to death or imprisonment by the 'churches'.

We are talking about 'TODAY' !!!!!   in May 2018 !!!!!!
It actually SCARES me, that there are such people today, working in industry, labs, component
manufacturing companies, teachers, wholesalers, electricians etc. etc. etc.........
that STILL actually believe this Fu%$^&#  Crap !!!!!!!

...... There must be something 'Seriously' wrong in their little brains........
But these are the population of 'tomorrow'..... (????????)
It scares me.......
 

Offline apis

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #230 on: May 22, 2018, 05:42:11 pm »
Flat Earthers are only the tip of the iceberg. I used to think they were just trolls, but there is just too much evidence they are not. They are just that stupid/gullible.

Check out this poll from 2013:
https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/PPP_Release_National_ConspiracyTheories_040213.pdf

Quote
Do you believe media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to television broadcast signals, or not?
Do 15%
Do not 70%
Not sure 15%
15% + 15% = 30% ! ... I mean, this is tinfoil hat territory :palm:

Quote
Do you believe President Barack Obama is the anti-Christ, or not?
Do 13%
Do not 73%
Not sure 13%
So, more than one in four US citizens are not sure if Obama is Satan or not. And one in eight believe he is. :palm: :palm:
Sure, they don't like him, but anti-Christ?! come on. It's all those bat crazy evangelicals in the US.

Quote
Do you believe that shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies, or not?
Do 4%
Do not 88%
Not sure 7%
4 + 7 = 11% !!!  :palm: :palm: :palm: :-DD

And it would be super nice to be able to laugh and say it's just those nutty Americans, but sadly it's the same everywhere. A recent study here is Sweden show that 6% believe the moon landing was a hoax, which matches the result from this american poll nicely:

Quote
Do you believe the moon landing was faked, or not?
Do 7%
Do not 84%
Not sure 9%

I have no doubt swedes are just as crazy, the theories might vary depending on the culture but the potential is the same everywhere. A lot of people are just nightmare inducingly stupid. And some are both evil and stupid (often goes hand in hand). If you accept that fact things like creationism, witch burning, facism, scientology, etc, isn't so strange any more.
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #231 on: May 23, 2018, 01:38:20 am »
Quote
Do you believe media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to television broadcast signals, or not?
Do 15%
Do not 70%
Not sure 15%
15% + 15% = 30% ! ... I mean, this is tinfoil hat territory :palm:
Depends what you define as "secret mind-controlling tech". Quite apart from the channel contents being full of every known opinion influencing method - neurolinguistic programming, hypnotic voice cadences, 'discussions' that are deeply scripted peer-influence exercises, rapid scene cuts and luminance variations timed to pound a point home, and so on, there's also subliminal single-frame image flashes. I've never captured these myself, but did read an article years ago of a group that built a video frame analyzer system. Purpose was to software-search for single frames that didn't closely match frames to either side in the stream. You'd expect plenty of cuts, where one sequence shifted suddenly to another. But they claimed to find there were a LOT of weird cases where very striking single frame images occurred in broadcast TV. Deep subconscious association type imagery.
Having no such system myself, I can't verify. The counter argument would be, that people taping TV programs should report seeing such images in frame by frame playback. But I've never heard this reported.
Don't really care anyway, since I very rarely watch broadcast TV. It would be interesting to make such a system now, with digital TV broadcasts.

Quote
Quote
Do you believe President Barack Obama is the anti-Christ, or not?
Do 13%
Do not 73%
Not sure 13%
So, more than one in four US citizens are not sure if Obama is Satan or not. And one in eight believe he is. :palm: :palm:
Sure, they don't like him, but anti-Christ?! come on. It's all those bat crazy evangelicals in the US.
Ah, religion. A foundation proof that you can make people believe any stupid shit, if you start on them early enough. Some of those survey respondents will be religious, and mean it literally. Others may just mean it allegorically. Using 'antichrist' as shorthand for utter f*cking disaster and ruin.

Quote
Quote
Do you believe that shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies, or not?
Do 4%
Do not 88%
Not sure 7%
4 + 7 = 11% !!!  :palm: :palm: :palm: :-DD

I'm an atheist. All my life I've searched with an open mind for any evidence of anything 'spiritual'. I've stayed overnight in 'haunted' houses, and stuff like that. Nothing, nada. And yet, I've had three unexpected personal experiences that are hard to explain. I'll relate one of them:
One time, in my place of work, sitting in a room with a friend also employed there, the boss walked in unannounced. He had a practice of showing potential share investors around the company; this had happened a few times before. Today he walked in with Bob Hawk (ex Oz Prime Minister, from decades ago.) The routine was, my friend and I stand up and shake hands with the VIP-sucker while introduced, smile and nod while the GM prattles on about how great the company is. Then they leave and we go back to work.
Seemed the same this day. I didn't think much of Hawke as PM, but didn't have strong feelings about it. He was an actor for the US, same as several other Oz PMs, but that's typical. This day I reached to shake hands, just a bit amused that he should turn up here, maybe getting suckered into buying shares in this stupid company, ho hum. At the moment of skin contact it felt like I was struck by dark, dark lightning. Instant all hairs on back of neck standing up, whole body feeling like I was falling to some kind of horrific hell. 'Shaking hands with a Demon' seems apt. I went into shock, couldn't react. Timeless horror. Handshake ended, thank God! I stood doing the smiling nodding act, then sat down when they left. Still in shock.
I have NO F*CKING IDEA what that was. Never felt anything like it before or since in my life. And very much don't want to. I'm totally not prone to sudden unexplained emotional blasts. More like a Spock of ST.
Still, it's a personal, once-off, subjective impression. Useless in any real sense. Question is though, have other people had similar experiences? Some underlying basis, elaborated to the 'reptillians' meme, perhaps?

As for the rest, yes, the human mind is not intrinsically rational. Logic is a learned skill. The modern education system fails badly in this, and many including me think this is a deliberate and intended result. 'Common Core' among other education schemes are crafted to produce individuals who cannot independently reason, but are conditioned to accept and parrot whatever they are told by authority figures.

Collecting old scopes, logic analyzers, and unfinished projects. http://everist.org
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #232 on: May 23, 2018, 11:47:50 am »
! ... I mean, this is tinfoil hat territory :palm:
Tinfoil hat is for those who think all humans are rational or moral beings.  Many or most might be, but not all. It is naïve to think a conspiracy cannot be true, because it would be too big.  If it is profitable enough, compared to the expense of making it work, it probably is true. Just not perpetrated by lizard aliens, but ordinary humans looking to gain.

Also, controlling a single person is orders of magnitude harder than controlling masses.  Consider traffic, for example.  Ostensibly, each driver is following their own desires, and following the rules to varying degrees. Nevertheless, traffic in general can be modeled to a very high precision, even up to and including emergent phenomena like traffic jams, by using very simple models originally designed to model hive insect behaviour. There is no intelligence there in traffic. Why would overall human behaviour be that more complicated?

Opinion shaping is another good example.  Even if you completely disagree, hearing something described positively or negatively every day for a couple of months will change your opinion, even if you are aware that it is happening.

(I probably should find references to these studies, but I don't think those of you who disagree would agree even with the references, so why bother?  If you care, you do your own research, which is much more likely to sway your opinion than reading something that a nobody on the internet wrote ;D)

I'm an atheist. All my life I've searched with an open mind for any evidence of anything 'spiritual'.
I did have a 'spiritual' experience once, when I was 27 or so.  After living most of my life up to that point way out in the backwater forests, I suddenly realized why I could never relax when alone in the woods: because I felt I wasn't alone. I also realized I felt that way, because I have a close physiological connection to the forest surrounding me; similar to how some say they are most themselves when sailing, or running, or whatever.  Nothing religious or magic, but a sudden spiritual understanding of how I unknowingly interact with my surroundings. Interesting stuff, nevertheless, and definitely spiritual.

Having studied both the atomic level of things, and looked at the universe through a telescope, the idea of an omnipotent god interested in events affecting single humans, is utterly ridiculous to me.  Not impossible one exists, but if one does, I do not want anything to do with it: it would simply be a chaotic force from my point of view.  No, I'd rather just live my life, and leave room for something even more interesting to follow.  The universe is big enough for me; no need for a here-after of any kind, either.

At the moment of skin contact it felt like I was struck by dark, dark lightning. Instant all hairs on back of neck standing up, whole body feeling like I was falling to some kind of horrific hell. 'Shaking hands with a Demon' seems apt. I went into shock, couldn't react. Timeless horror.
Could be a physiological reaction, some kind of biological incompatibility, combined with your mental model of the person, that manifested itself as a "religious" experience.

The biological stuff is interesting. Fear does have a smell, for example, although not all can smell it. While humans seem much less perceptive of pheromones in general (compared to some other species), we do seem to think that e.g. potential spouses with complementary immune systems (giving offspring better immune systems) smell better. The tactile feel a handshake itself is complicated: a cold, wet, limp handshake can easily evoke a sleezy lizard-like perception of the person, and so on.

I don't see it at all impossible, just a probably very rare occurrence, that a contact with someone with opposing values, morals, and "operating principles", leads to such a strong reaction, when the, uh, "pieces fall exactly right".  I can definitely see how such reactions easily combine with concepts like "evil" or "the devil", producing religious imagery that better resonates with people.

(Full disclosure: A couple of my friends have told me their initial reaction to meeting me in person the first time was utterly negative, and only changed later on, after having actually interacted with me for a while.   I've tried to find out how this happens and what I do that triggers it, but to no avail.) 
As for the rest, yes, the human mind is not intrinsically rational. Logic is a learned skill. The modern education system fails badly in this, and many including me think this is a deliberate and intended result.
Absolutely.

The underlying reason could be as simple as the fact that uninformed people are easier to rule.

I do not see any need for a conspiracy or anything. All you need is representatives who find informed, intelligent people intimidating, making the representatives lives harder, always bringing new problems to think about. The representatives will always (at least on average!) tend to solutions that makes their own life easier. That means their actions will decrease the number of informed, intelligent people, and increase the number of easily represented, uninformed people. Even if the representatives have perfectly good intentions in mind. To do otherwise, they would actively have to work against themselves, making their own work harder and harder.  Do you know anyone capable of that? Any politician capable or willing to do that?

In the schoolroom, or in any education situation, it is much easier for the instructor to encourage "going with the flow", than fostering critical thinking and disagreement.  Plus, it takes a very specific type of person to allow being questioned like that every day without getting frustrated, and that is not the type of person that currently seeks employment in education or teaching.
 

Offline apis

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #233 on: May 23, 2018, 04:49:54 pm »
Quote
Do you believe media or the government adds secret mind-controlling technology to television broadcast signals, or not?
Do 15%
Do not 70%
Not sure 15%
15% + 15% = 30% ! ... I mean, this is tinfoil hat territory :palm:
Depends what you define as "secret mind-controlling tech". Quite apart from the channel contents being full of every known opinion influencing method - neurolinguistic programming, hypnotic voice cadences, 'discussions' that are deeply scripted peer-influence exercises, rapid scene cuts and luminance variations timed to pound a point home, and so on,
I think we can all agree the world is full of propaganda and advertising. Rethorics and even cheap advertising trics works, no argument there. (Why else are there so many that believe in silly conspiracy theories!)

... there's also subliminal single-frame image flashes. I've never captured these myself, but did read an article years ago of a group that built a video frame analyzer system. Purpose was to software-search for single frames that didn't closely match frames to either side in the stream. You'd expect plenty of cuts, where one sequence shifted suddenly to another. But they claimed to find there were a LOT of weird cases where very striking single frame images occurred in broadcast TV. Deep subconscious association type imagery.
Having no such system myself, I can't verify.
I have seen rare examples of that in some horror movie (or maybe music video?), it was added for effect, don't remember which (probably not worth remembering anyway).

Subliminal messaging is BS. First of all, it is easy to spot with the naked eye. In fact a single odd video frame out of place is quite jarring, you couldn't miss it if it happened regularly. Secondly it doesn't have any effect. Seeing a single frame of a can of Dr Pepper doesn't make you crave Dr Pepper any more than reading this sentence.

The counter argument would be, that people taping TV programs should report seeing such images in frame by frame playback. But I've never heard this reported.
Indeed. You should ask yourself why you put any faith in that article then?

Don't really care anyway, since I very rarely watch broadcast TV. It would be interesting to make such a system now, with digital TV broadcasts.
I don't watch much TV either, but If true you really should care, not just for altruistic reason but also since it would still affect you indirectly on a massive scale.

The existence of secret mind-controlling technology that can be added to television broadcasts is just a prerequisite in this case, you would also have to believe your government or media was secretly using it on their citizens. That would require a lot of people are in on it and none of them are blowing the whistle. There would have to be a lot of people authorising, funding and maintaining these systems all over the world.

That people here are even questioning whether this is real is just more proof that the 15%+15% figure is likely to be accurate.

Quote
Quote
Do you believe President Barack Obama is the anti-Christ, or not?
Do 13%
Do not 73%
Not sure 13%
So, more than one in four US citizens are not sure if Obama is Satan or not. And one in eight believe he is. :palm: :palm:
Sure, they don't like him, but anti-Christ?! come on. It's all those bat crazy evangelicals in the US.

Ah, religion. A foundation proof that you can make people believe any stupid shit, if you start on them early enough. Some of those survey respondents will be religious, and mean it literally. Others may just mean it allegorically. Using 'antichrist' as shorthand for utter f*cking disaster and ruin.

It's from the book of revelation, supposedly a sign that doomsday is approaching, which have been a popular conspiracy theory ("doomsday prohpets") for millenia. What is particularly frightening is that some of these groups are actively trying to make things in the book of revelation happen (consequences be damned). A large part of the zionist movement is cristian for example. (Quick googling brings up this for example: http://watchmanbiblestudy.com/articles/1948PropheciesFulfilled.html)

That it wasn't meant literally was my first thought as well and some do not mean it literally, of course. But I'm convinced that the majority of them do. 13% is about the same size as many other conspiracy theories after all and it's in line with other things these people are saying.

Quote
Quote
Do you believe that shape-shifting reptilian people control our world by taking on human form and gaining political power to manipulate our societies, or not?
Do 4%
Do not 88%
Not sure 7%
4 + 7 = 11% !!!  :palm: :palm: :palm: :-DD
I'm an atheist. All my life I've searched with an open mind for any evidence of anything 'spiritual'. I've stayed overnight in 'haunted' houses, and stuff like that. Nothing, nada.
I think most of us want to believe in these things. It would be unbelievably cool and practical if telekinesis, predicting the future, teleportation, the afterlife, etc, was real. Sadly, contrary to popular belief there has been huge amount of money and effort spent trying to find evidence of the paranormal, but they have all come up empty handed. You'd be surprise of the number of studies made on dowsing rods.

It's just wishful thinking.



At the moment of skin contact it felt like I was struck by dark, dark lightning. Instant all hairs on back of neck standing up, whole body feeling like I was falling to some kind of horrific hell. 'Shaking hands with a Demon' seems apt. I went into shock, couldn't react. Timeless horror. Handshake ended, thank God! I stood doing the smiling nodding act, then sat down when they left. Still in shock.
I have NO F*CKING IDEA what that was. Never felt anything like it before or since in my life. And very much don't want to. I'm totally not prone to sudden unexplained emotional blasts. More like a Spock of ST.
Spock would not think global warming was a hoax (sorry but it had to be said :P). What you describe seems perfectly normal to me. Colloquially known as the shivers. The human mind is an unreliable and often irrational thing, that is something we all seem to agree on after all.

Still, it's a personal, once-off, subjective impression. Useless in any real sense. Question is though, have other people had similar experiences? Some underlying basis, elaborated to the 'reptillians' meme, perhaps?
Getting the shivers from a handshake does in no way prove or even indicate the earth is controlled by evil shape-shifting lizards from outer space! That said, every good conspiracy theory is based on a grain of truth.

As for the rest, yes, the human mind is not intrinsically rational. Logic is a learned skill. The modern education system fails badly in this, and many including me think this is a deliberate and intended result. 'Common Core' among other education schemes are crafted to produce individuals who cannot independently reason, but are conditioned to accept and parrot whatever they are told by authority figures.
Yes, I think so too. That is a big problem. The schools are tailored to provide workers with the skills the factories need; not wise, critically thinking citizens.

Schools cost a lot of tax money and is a negative experience for many, so there is constant pressure to only teach a minimum of subjects. That favours subjects that are easily shown to be practically useful skills. The powers that be have no interest in people learning philosophy, reading the Prince, questioning where money comes from or what the foundations of christianity is anyway. They do have a big interest in workers that already know most of the things needed to perform the tasks that needs to be done. Otherwise the companies would have to pay to educate the workers themselves.

So schools teach maths, chemistry, physics, english, (very selective) history, etc, within an authoritative framework that rewards obedience. Everything we need to be efficient workers and patriotic citizens.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 05:35:46 pm by apis »
 

Offline apis

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #234 on: May 23, 2018, 05:27:33 pm »
Tinfoil hat is for those who think all humans are rational or moral beings.  Many or most might be, but not all. It is naïve to think a conspiracy cannot be true, because it would be too big.  If it is profitable enough, compared to the expense of making it work, it probably is true. Just not perpetrated by lizard aliens, but ordinary humans looking to gain.
Indeed. Large conspiracies are definitely real. Just look how easy it has been to fool a lot of people that global warming is a hoax. It's definitely profitable enough for the oil and coal industry to keep spreading the misinformation and lobbying against policy change.

I've heard people say the world is controlled by lizard people, but never anyone that claimed all humans are rational and moral (certainly not moral). There are quite a few that like to repeat we are rational (especially themselves) and I think people tend to overrate just how intelligent we humans really are. (And how do they define intelligence and rationallity anyway?) But I suppose it ultimately depend on what you compare with.

Morals (whatever that is) is a necessity for all social animals, so we have to be fairly moral or else our societies wouldn't work. Some people take advantage of that though, and clearly, some people are just downright evil.

Also, controlling a single person is orders of magnitude harder than controlling masses.  Consider traffic, for example.  Ostensibly, each driver is following their own desires, and following the rules to varying degrees. Nevertheless, traffic in general can be modeled to a very high precision, even up to and including emergent phenomena like traffic jams, by using very simple models originally designed to model hive insect behaviour. There is no intelligence there in traffic. Why would overall human behaviour be that more complicated?
Indeed, which is why self driving cars can be a good thing.

I think overall human behaviour can be understood in terms of people just trying to satisfy their basic needs: find shelter, find food and reproduce. It's what most peoples lives circle around.

Opinion shaping is another good example. Even if you completely disagree, hearing something described positively or negatively every day for a couple of months will change your opinion, even if you are aware that it is happening.
Yes, rhetorics and advertising works sadly.

One of the basic mechanism of advertising is based on recognition. If you see an ad for a washing powder every day for a year, when you are on your way home from work, tired and hungry, and need to choose a detergent you are going to reach for the most familiar one: the one you saw in the ad. Doesn't matter what you thought the ad was stupid and know it's just bs.
 

Online james_s

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #235 on: May 23, 2018, 07:21:10 pm »

One of the basic mechanism of advertising is based on recognition. If you see an ad for a washing powder every day for a year, when you are on your way home from work, tired and hungry, and need to choose a detergent you are going to reach for the most familiar one: the one you saw in the ad. Doesn't matter what you thought the ad was stupid and know it's just bs.

I sure don't. When I hear an ad for something excessively often it puts a sour taste in my mouth and when I go to buy something in that category I make a conscious decision to buy something else if at all possible. I loathe advertising, especially the abstract/silly stuff that doesn't clearly tell you what the product is and what it does, and anything that is too frequent. If they have to advertise that much then the product likely isn't very good.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #236 on: May 23, 2018, 09:23:11 pm »
we have to be fairly moral or else our societies wouldn't work.
I meant that the number of "immoral" people societies can support is surprisingly large. There are lots of people who apply a different moral standard to others than they do to themselves, usually telling themselves something like "although only bad people do that, I can do it now, because I am not a bad person" or something similar. Yet, their effect on their surroundings is exactly the same as people who simply decide that certain morals or rules simply do not apply to them.

Yes, rhetorics and advertising works sadly.
I was thinking more along the lines of forced speech: the way certain words and expressions are required when discussing a certain topic, and how some other terms and expressions are banned altogether.

Forced invented terms are especially insiduous, because they have no established context. After the term has been forced upon people, it is cheap to shape opinions and thinking on the subject, simply by controlling the context in which it is portrayed in mass media.  This stuff is surprisingly effective: as I already mentioned, even if you know it is being done to you, it will affect you, unless you stop consuming mass media. This has been verified in actual experiments, I believe.

Advertisements are horribly crude in comparison; product placement (that does not cross the conscious detection threshold) is much more effective.
 

Offline apis

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #237 on: May 23, 2018, 11:04:35 pm »
One of the basic mechanism of advertising is based on recognition. If you see an ad for a washing powder every day for a year, when you are on your way home from work, tired and hungry, and need to choose a detergent you are going to reach for the most familiar one: the one you saw in the ad. Doesn't matter what you thought the ad was stupid and know it's just bs.

I sure don't. When I hear an ad for something excessively often it puts a sour taste in my mouth and when I go to buy something in that category I make a conscious decision to buy something else if at all possible. I loathe advertising, especially the abstract/silly stuff that doesn't clearly tell you what the product is and what it does, and anything that is too frequent. If they have to advertise that much then the product likely isn't very good.
I don't either, I try to pick the cheapest (all other things equal). If that didn't work well, I try the next cheapest (and so on). But I'm also doing that consciously to avoid being fooled by marketing.

It works when you are making a subconscious decision though, i.e. when tired, hungry and stressed you are more likely to just grab something that looks familiar. If you start thinking about it and compare prices, etc, you can override that initial impulse.

I believe this effect is proven and well established, but it's not really my area of expertise so can't swear on it.

we have to be fairly moral or else our societies wouldn't work.
I meant that the number of "immoral" people societies can support is surprisingly large. There are lots of people who apply a different moral standard to others than they do to themselves, usually telling themselves something like "although only bad people do that, I can do it now, because I am not a bad person" or something similar. Yet, their effect on their surroundings is exactly the same as people who simply decide that certain morals or rules simply do not apply to them.

People doesn't even agree on what is immoral to begin with, so it can be a tricky subject. But lets take murder as an example: most people would agree it's bad, and it is also pretty rare. If everyone ran around murdering people they didn't like it's pretty clear society would quickly collapse and everyone would live in constant fear. Also, it's not black and white: no one is completely good or completely evil and most people have probably lied at some time, but most people would not commit murder

How you define an "immoral" person, and what is "surprisingly large" is highly subjective I suspect.  If you're saying a lot of people are selfish hypocritical bastards, then yeah, you get no argument from me.



Yes, rhetorics and advertising works sadly.
I was thinking more along the lines of forced speech: the way certain words and expressions are required when discussing a certain topic, and how some other terms and expressions are banned altogether.

Forced invented terms are especially insiduous, because they have no established context. After the term has been forced upon people, it is cheap to shape opinions and thinking on the subject, simply by controlling the context in which it is portrayed in mass media.  This stuff is surprisingly effective: as I already mentioned, even if you know it is being done to you, it will affect you, unless you stop consuming mass media. This has been verified in actual experiments, I believe.

Advertisements are horribly crude in comparison; product placement (that does not cross the conscious detection threshold) is much more effective.
Maybe I should have said propaganda and marketing rather than rhetorics and advertising?

The Nazis (who basically invented modern propaganda) thought that people will believe anything, provided they are told it often enough and emphatically enough, and that contradictors are either silenced or smothered in calumny. Sadly it turned out they were right.

I was thinking of marketing in general not just advertisments. You are right that there are many more deceptive forms of marketing, astroturfing is another. (But advertising is also effective or why would people spend so much money on it?)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 11:09:59 pm by apis »
 
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Offline Kalvin

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #238 on: June 17, 2018, 03:26:18 pm »
I didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this is a duplicate link:

http://qrp-labs.com/circumnavigators.html

This is pretty hard data that the balloon can travel from one edge to another as if the earth was a sphere ;) . Better yet, the balloon was built by hobbyists and the balloon is able to send the GPS location data to the independent observers (radio amateurs, for example) which can monitor the balloon moving across the earth, 12 km above the earth's surface so it can only be observed within certain region at a time due to earth's curvature. Sure, no hard-core flat-earther may not a) believe this or b) understand what they are seeing. But someone less hard-core, this may bring some light and understanding that flat-earth is just a hoax.

Current balloons:
https://tracker.habhub.org
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 03:35:54 pm by Kalvin »
 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #239 on: June 17, 2018, 03:41:21 pm »
That's a hoax, too. All the photos I've seen of these alleged balloons show flat, disk-like objects with suitable shading to give the appearance of being 3D.
Tell me it can't be done and I'll do it. Or give it a damned good try.
 

Offline ArthurDent

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #240 on: June 17, 2018, 05:19:21 pm »
The problem I have with flat earthers is I want to know how thick the flat earth is? If we have mine shafts it has to be at least a few miles thick but 'logically' it would seem, from a stability standpoint, it must be as thick as it is wide. It would also follow that each plane surface must be a square so the earth is actually a cube.  Or maybe it is pyramid shaped.  :-DD

And then God said to man: "I will make you a mate in every corner of the earth." (then in a humorous moment, he made the earth round!)
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #241 on: January 04, 2019, 09:34:00 pm »
:rant:


 


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