Author Topic: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!  (Read 16210 times)

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Offline TerraHertz

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2018, 12:47:55 am »
... some are being paid to produce content with the intent of making as many people doubt everything the hear from all their leaders to statements made by scientists and, well, everyone.  The bigest player in this game is Russia with there trolling operations and army of social media types who are there to, as I said, make the largest number of people possible mistrust everything.

I see you get the central point which most people are unable to grasp. The original creators of most of these nutty concepts are actors, in the employ of larger entities with deep motives. But most people (even here on eevblog) are sufficiently propagandized in their thinking, to automatically reject anything that implies 'conspiracy.' Even though 'conspiracy' is actually how 80% of all political and economic action works.

However, in blaming Russia you're falling for another propaganda stream. Sure the USSR gov was pretty evil. (And who created the USSR anyway, and why? Another forbidden topic.) But if you think the current Russian gov is just like the old USSR, you're woefully mistaken. Exactly who the worst offenders are these days, is a topic that would definitely blow the 'no politics' fuse on eevblog. So I'm only going to offer a quote:

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."
-- William Casey, Director of Central Intelligence. An observation by the late Director at his first staff meeting in 1981.
Source (via the net, not personal email):
Quote
Barbara Honegger
I am the source for this quote, which was indeed said by CIA Director William Casey at an early February 1981 meeting of the newly elected President Reagan with his new cabinet secretaries to report to him on what they had learned about their agencies in the first couple of weeks of the administration.
The meeting was in the Roosevelt Room in the West Wing of the White House, not far from the Cabinet Room. I was present at the meeting as Assistant to the chief domestic policy adviser to the President. Casey first told Reagan that he had been astonished to discover that over 80 percent of the 'intelligence' that the analysis side of the CIA produced was based on open public sources like newspapers and magazines.
As he did to all the other secretaries of their departments and agencies, Reagan asked what he saw as his goal as director for the CIA, to which he replied with this quote, which I recorded in my notes of the meeting as he said it.  Shortly thereafter I told Senior White House correspondent Sarah McClendon, who was a close friend and colleague, who in turn made it public. 
Barbara Honegger  bshonegg@gmail.com

My observation: There's no mention of Regan making any objection to that. It's my opinion that the public perceptions of virtually all leader's character and beliefs, are constructed falsehoods. You can only deduce their true nature by observing their actions and the ultimate effects. Which sometimes take a long time to become apparent. Or a lot of digging.
Anyway, in this case Reagan apparently accepted that statement, implying he shared that understanding of core objectives.

As for why..  One of the fundamentals of propaganda and manipulation, is that the less your targets understand of the real world, and how things work (social, political and economic constructs, and even basic physics and logic), then the easier they are to manipulate and the less ability they have to a) comprehend the objectives of their rulers, and b) form effective strategies to resist those objectives (which are very rarely in the best interests of the people.)
Stated another way: Fill people's minds with broken memes (in the original sense of 'meme', as defined by Richard Dawkins) and they will spend all their time thinking broken, useless thoughts. Leaving no effective mental capacity spare to think about you, and what you are trying to achieve. Ha ha... what has happened to the concept of 'meme' is a fine example of deliberate sabotage of useful conceptual tools.

Relevant:
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."
-- J. Edgar Hoover, FBI Director 1924-1972, quoted in The Elks Magazine (August 1956).
(More quotes: http://everist.org/archives/links/__Freedom_quotes.txt )

Incidentally, your point about the volume of output being a useful 'tell', is accurate. Another one is the fanciness of websites. Look at the source code, and think about how much time and skill were required to construct it, vs who/what the site claims to be. Yet another one is usernames. Virtual personas in entities running large astro-turfing operations, tend to have user names that say a lot about the worldview and (lack of) imagination of the guys paid to sit in those seats.

« Last Edit: April 27, 2018, 12:51:36 am by TerraHertz »
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Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #76 on: April 27, 2018, 02:15:40 pm »
To....
  Distelzombie,
  raptor1956,
  TerraHertz,
(and  Cubdriver  not to mention many others xxx)

I sincerely thank you three for your intelligent and meaningful contributions here !
I think you may all be correct to an extent, though to break down all that was said, would
be too hard to comment on individually.... It has made me rethink my proposal !!!!!!

I've 'agonized' over replying specifically, not wanting to open a 'Hornets-Nest', that I
didn't even think existed the other day....  "Once warned xx"

So to 'LIGHTEN' this post a bit, I loved the response from 'Cubdriver', about what would
happen as a result of a 'Cat' on a supposedly 'flat-earth' .....  (I'm a cat lover/understanderer).
Interestingly to me, 'Cubdriver' s  sub-tag description says........
"If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway..."  xxxx

I would like to add to that, and quote what I was told many decades ago, that.....
"If first you don't succeed......  then remove ALL evidence that you tried !!!!! "
 

Online Brumby

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #77 on: April 28, 2018, 03:20:16 am »
I would like to add to that, and quote what I was told many decades ago, that.....
"If first you don't succeed......  then remove ALL evidence that you tried !!!!! "

We've seen that in action.
 

Online Brumby

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #78 on: April 28, 2018, 03:21:45 am »
Full post for context:

To....
  Distelzombie,
  raptor1956,
  TerraHertz,
(and  Cubdriver  not to mention many others xxx)

I sincerely thank you three for your intelligent and meaningful contributions here !
I think you may all be correct to an extent, though to break down all that was said, would
be too hard to comment on individually.... It has made me rethink my proposal !!!!!!

I've 'agonized' over replying specifically, not wanting to open a 'Hornets-Nest', that I
didn't even think existed the other day....  "Once warned xx"

So to 'LIGHTEN' this post a bit, I loved the response from 'Cubdriver', about what would
happen as a result of a 'Cat' on a supposedly 'flat-earth' .....  (I'm a cat lover/understanderer).
Interestingly to me, 'Cubdriver' s  sub-tag description says........
"If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway..."  xxxx

I would like to add to that, and quote what I was told many decades ago, that.....
"If first you don't succeed......  then remove ALL evidence that you tried !!!!! "
 

Offline boffin

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #79 on: April 28, 2018, 03:49:54 am »
Crazy how nature does that

 

Offline ebastler

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #80 on: April 28, 2018, 07:49:33 am »
Crazy how nature does that

Don't be ridiculous. All planets, including Earth, are round flat disks of course. ::)
 

Offline newbrain

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2018, 10:18:23 am »
Crazy how nature does that

Don't be ridiculous. All planets, including Earth, are round flat disks of course. ::)
Exactly. It depends on your reference frame.
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Offline Distelzombie

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #82 on: April 28, 2018, 04:12:25 pm »
Just because someone believes in flat Earth or over-unity generation isn't sufficient to justify calling them unintelligent. That's a fallacy. Ironically it is a fallacy that critics are blinded by just as the flat Earthers are blinded by their own false notions.

The best way to deal with these fringe lunatics is to ignore them. If you give them an opponent you only validate their views in their own minds. They think they are custodians of a truth that they are duty bound to reveal. If you make them think it is being suppressed you simply fuel their belief.

Either that or they are simply attention seekers and there again ignoring them is the best response.
That is probably true for those who play around with over-unity-stuff, but come on... :D The most basic reasoning skill should stop you from thinking earth is flat. You just HAVE to be stupid. Either that or I'm totally unable to put myself mentally in the same position in which I would believe something so crazy, but still have mostly the same mental capabilities. (That would actually be a very good thing, I think. It means I'm safe. xD)

Woa, thanks newbrain! I was once getting exasperated with trying to get the Forum to let me use a youtube-link without making it an embedded player. For the same reason: I wanted to link to a certain time in it. Didn't think about that. :)

Online james_s

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #83 on: April 28, 2018, 06:32:16 pm »
The flat earth thing doesn't really seem that much more ridiculous than over-unity stuff, they're both completely ridiculous to the point that I have a hard time considering someone who believes in either to be intelligent.
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #84 on: April 28, 2018, 09:48:28 pm »
There are now just as there have always been and always will be ... stupid people, but truly the worst are people with higher intelligence that appear to choose stupidity as a way of life.  I mean, it's hard to fault the genuinely stupid that lack the facility to understand even basic stuff, but when you have people that speak coherently and can put together a video with dialog and graphics and even animation this isn't the work of the merely stupid but rather more the choice of someone that knows better and chooses to do this.  The success of some of the FE and other conspiracy channels, which appears to be threatened recently by changes in policy and policing by YT, but back in the recent day there was an audience for this stuff and when there's an audience there will be people that choose to provide content to satisfy them.

One of the channels that was pumping out FE and other conspiracy nonsense at an industrial output but has recently been expelled from YT was a group of channels under the umbrella of "Russianvids" and the story of that channel and the person believed to be behind it is a fascinating one.  It's interesting in that it's almost impossible to believe that someone like Ben P. Liashenko, reported to be a member of Russian intelligence, could gain so large and loyal a following among members of the American right with the very name of the channel spelling out there source.  We live in strange times...


Brian
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #85 on: April 29, 2018, 12:45:53 am »
Crazy how nature does that


This depiction is so wrong. As any flat earther worth its salt knows, a flat earth is not like a slice of bread, but more like a like tortilla.
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
 

Offline boffin

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #86 on: April 29, 2018, 01:19:00 am »
Those that think the earth is really a round flat tortilla vs a flat piece of toast, have probably had their thinking altered by the government's chemtrail spraying.
 
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Offline Distelzombie

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #87 on: April 29, 2018, 06:24:06 am »
There are now just as there have always been and always will be ... stupid people, but truly the worst are people with higher intelligence that appear to choose stupidity as a way of life.  I mean, it's hard to fault the genuinely stupid that lack the facility to understand even basic stuff, but when you have people that speak coherently and can put together a video with dialog and graphics and even animation this isn't the work of the merely stupid but rather more the choice of someone that knows better and chooses to do this.  The success of some of the FE and other conspiracy channels, which appears to be threatened recently by changes in policy and policing by YT, but back in the recent day there was an audience for this stuff and when there's an audience there will be people that choose to provide content to satisfy them.

One of the channels that was pumping out FE and other conspiracy nonsense at an industrial output but has recently been expelled from YT was a group of channels under the umbrella of "Russianvids" and the story of that channel and the person believed to be behind it is a fascinating one.  It's interesting in that it's almost impossible to believe that someone like Ben P. Liashenko, reported to be a member of Russian intelligence, could gain so large and loyal a following among members of the American right with the very name of the channel spelling out there source.  We live in strange times...


Brian
Interesting!

I was searching "russianvids" one of the first results that came up is a website with the usual anti-government crap all over it's face. But it seems to be anti canadian government.
http://www.earthlyfireflies.org/russianvids-youtube-channel-exposed/

It doesn't have an impressum so I made a whois-search. The Information used to register this domain points to a property that looks like it's run by military guys, (Attached pictures one and two) but that could just be the context poisoning my judgement. I mean, just read their crazy anti-government declaration:
http://www.earthlyfireflies.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Declaration-of-Non-Obedience-To-Government.pdf

First, to prove it's relevance to the thread, one of it's appendixes is a proof that the earth is flat. Seriously. Why that has to be written in a declaration you're supposed to send to the government - I don't know.  :-//
Anyway. This declaration it written by Olga Klimova and Viatcheslav Klimov. I assume they run the website and live at this place or the place is just choosen to appear very "nationalist", which is probably way more accurate. (This is all easily available public information, so I don't assume it's in any way bad to post it here.)

This page is CLEARLY run by russians. - I mean it has just the right amount of anti-russia stuff to nullify their pro russia-stuff.
In this declaration are Appendixes listing all their achievements, that include like:
Putin tells a joke about a spy (earthlyfireflies.org)
www.earthlyfireflies.org/learn-from-putinhimself-who-is-ruling-the-world/
Trancework 4 - World Hypnotic Conspiracy (earthlyfireflies.org)
www.earthlyfireflies.org/trancework-4-russialeads-hypnotism-business-in-the-world/
Excerpt: "This maybe the best case of your future, when Russia takes over…
From early Soviet times, Russia has focused and developed mind control technologies, including the mass hypnosis."
Well. Maybe I just want to see involvement of the russian government. It's so boring in this world.


Also there's a link to a page of them "proofing" Steven Hawking is a robot doll made by the government.
http://www.earthlyfireflies.org/stephen-hawking-hoax/
It's so funny! :D  :popcorn:

Also they're at war with LiveLeak who are not accepting their videos:
"LiveLeak keeps all videos with ZERO views, (just like YouTube and vid.me keep our videos invisible now, after we released “The GodFather” and “The TranceWork” videos). But then, LiveLeak.com, to not to make their bias too obvious, decided to add by 30 fake views on one video every ~6 hours."

They also want you to read Tolstoy, but only THEIR version of tolstoy. The on the corrected in mind of "the original Tolstoy’s logic".
http://www.earthlyfireflies.org/translation-errors-gospel-in-brief-by-lev-tolstoy/
I can't decide who is correct in this case. But if a random website tells me that the usual translation of Tolstoys work is incorrect and gives it's own I get skeptic. If that website is this website, I get VERY skeptic.
Look at this! They turned it into Anti-Semitism:
#45 Tolstoy: Прошел человек из чужого, вражеского народа, самарянин. Этот самарянин увидал иудея и не подумал о том, что иудеи ни во что считают самарян, а пожалел изби ого иудея.

Original: A man from a foreign, enemy nation happened by next, a Samaritan. This Samaritan saw the Jew and did not think about the feelings of Samaritans toward Jews, and simply felt sorry for the beaten Jew.

Their version: A man from a foreign, enemy nation happened by next, a Samaritan. This Samaritan saw the Jew and did not think that Jews view Samaritans as lowly, but simply felt sorry for the beaten Jew.
…You should conduct yourself the same way with… those who consider you nothing.

Number 46 is also all turned around.


« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 06:34:28 am by Distelzombie »
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #88 on: April 29, 2018, 06:45:19 am »
Those that think the earth is really a round flat tortilla vs a flat piece of toast, have probably had their thinking altered by the government's chemtrail spraying.

Have we also inadvertantly discovered the shape of their brains? >:D
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Offline raptor1956

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2018, 08:09:19 pm »
Quote

I see you get the central point which most people are unable to grasp. The original creators of most of these nutty concepts are actors, in the employ of larger entities with deep motives. But most people (even here on eevblog) are sufficiently propagandized in their thinking, to automatically reject anything that implies 'conspiracy.' Even though 'conspiracy' is actually how 80% of all political and economic action works.

However, in blaming Russia you're falling for another propaganda stream. Sure the USSR gov was pretty evil. (And who created the USSR anyway, and why? Another forbidden topic.) But if you think the current Russian gov is just like the old USSR, you're woefully mistaken. Exactly who the worst offenders are these days, is a topic that would definitely blow the 'no politics' fuse on eevblog. So I'm only going to offer a quote:

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false."
-- William Casey, Director of Central Intelligence. An observation by the late Director at his first staff meeting in 1981.
Source (via the net, not personal email):




Actually, if you go back over what I've written I point out that it ISN'T just the Russians doing this.  Yes, Russia is the dominant played of the nation state actors and by a long mile, but there are domestic actors that are also doing this -- actors such as industry lobbyists and political think tanks that are also looking to confuse the public and, most importantly, get the public to focus on stupid shit and not think about the terrible stuff there sponsors are doing.

So, Russia is the big played of the nation state actors but are hardly alone in the larger sense.  What makes the Russian actions somewhat more concerning is that they are doing this everywhere in the west with a goal not simply to confuse but to splinter the west, whereas the domestic special interests tend to be more focused on there smaller audience and issue.  Additionally, although the games being played may appear juvenile and it is, the fact is all politics is juvenile -- all politics is like a child's schoolyard with the main difference being the vocabulary used. 

Now, Google (YT) and Facebook and Twitter and the rest have profited from all of this and appear to have decided, early on, to let anyone do anything so long as they buy ads or drive viewership.  That does appear to be changing a bit with YT as many of the channels I've been talking about have been expelled.  Of course, the cost for a nation state or lobbyist group to do this stuff is, relatively speaking, really cheap, so when one channel is closed three more will open and keeping up with it is not easy.


Brian
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 08:11:34 pm by raptor1956 »
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #90 on: April 29, 2018, 08:27:50 pm »
Quote
However, in blaming Russia you're falling for another propaganda stream.

Yes, he is.

  Yes, Russia is the dominant played of the nation state actors and by a long mile,

Still with the cable news talking points?  There is no evidence that Russia's activity in this regard has been anything more than peanuts compared to the US's.

The US has been the dominant player in media manipulation and propaganda for decades - as well as direct involvement in manipulating other countries elections and/or overthrowing democratically elected governments unfriendly to US corporate interests.  It just goes along with being an empire (as other past empires have done).  Now that the empire is in it's last, dying stages, the efforts have just become more shrill and desperate. The new Mcarthyism is just the loudest and most obvious effort to deflect blame and distract the sheeple.  We need a boogeyman, don't ya know...
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #91 on: April 29, 2018, 08:40:07 pm »
Quote
However, in blaming Russia you're falling for another propaganda stream.

Yes, he is.

  Yes, Russia is the dominant played of the nation state actors and by a long mile,

Still with the cable news talking points?  There is no evidence that Russia's activity in this regard has been anything more than peanuts compared to the US's.

The US has been the dominant player in media manipulation and propaganda for decades - as well as direct involvement in manipulating other countries elections and/or overthrowing democratically elected governments unfriendly to US corporate interests.  It just goes along with being an empire (as other past empires have done).  Now that the empire is in it's last, dying stages, the efforts have just become more shrill and desperate. The new Mcarthyism is just the loudest and most obvious effort to deflect blame and distract the sheeple.  We need a boogeyman, don't ya know...


Well I can guess what side of the political aisle you reside on but whatever your political views the fact that you can see but not see what's going on is ... sad.

BTW, I didn't vote for Hillary or Trump so I'll spare you that straw-man...


Brian
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #92 on: April 29, 2018, 08:59:22 pm »


Well I can guess what side of the political aisle you reside on but whatever your political views the fact that you can see but not see what's going on is ... sad.

Well that assumption just fully demonstrates your indoctrination.  I strive to be influenced by facts - not political innuendo - no matter how often it is repeated in the corporate media.

I am no fan of our current idiot in chief. I just don't need to look outside our country to find a reason to blame his election on.

Quote
I didn't vote for Hillary or Trump

Neither did I - both were awful choices.   Both major parties have the same basic corrupt agenda. The false red/blue sports team dichotomy is there to keep the people's eye off the ball.
 

Offline Distelzombie

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #93 on: April 29, 2018, 10:36:04 pm »
Yeah, how can you even say you have a democracy with only two possible parties to choose from? That's more like a binary-dictatorship than democracy.

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #94 on: April 29, 2018, 10:41:30 pm »
Is this about the recent fixed two horse race ?   Like all the previous ones... :popcorn:
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 10:43:11 pm by Electro Detective »
 

Offline mtdoc

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #95 on: April 30, 2018, 02:01:46 am »
Yeah, how can you even say you have a democracy

Sadly, we can't. US is an oligarchy not a democracy.

To be fair, most other western "democracies" aren't much better.
 

Online Brumby

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #96 on: April 30, 2018, 04:26:29 am »
This thread is heading for oblivion.
 
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #97 on: April 30, 2018, 04:41:38 am »
This thread is heading for oblivion.

*sigh* ::)

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Offline ebastler

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #98 on: April 30, 2018, 06:41:57 am »
Yeah, how can you even say you have a democracy with only two possible parties to choose from? That's more like a binary-dictatorship than democracy.

Remember the 60s, 70s and early 80s in Germany? We had two large parties to choose between, and a third small one which made the choice for us. ;)
 

Offline raptor1956

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Re: "Flat Earthers"... what the F%$# !!!
« Reply #99 on: April 30, 2018, 07:22:08 am »


Well I can guess what side of the political aisle you reside on but whatever your political views the fact that you can see but not see what's going on is ... sad.

Well that assumption just fully demonstrates your indoctrination.  I strive to be influenced by facts - not political innuendo - no matter how often it is repeated in the corporate media.

I am no fan of our current idiot in chief. I just don't need to look outside our country to find a reason to blame his election on.

Quote
I didn't vote for Hillary or Trump

Neither did I - both were awful choices.   Both major parties have the same basic corrupt agenda. The false red/blue sports team dichotomy is there to keep the people's eye off the ball.


If you want to be taken seriously I'd suggest avoiding the use of the word "sheeple" -- it is popular with a political group that likes to shout about fake news while watching nothing but.   Also, I'm no fan of any of the cable news outlets.

As to the US being the great Satan ... yes, the US has certainly engaged in bad actions in, particularly central America in support of companies like United Fruit, but I don't believe I said the US was an angel.

This topic is about the Flat Earth movement and the people behind it, we could go on about the stupid second war in Iraq and other bad things done by the USA, but that isn't the topic of this thread now is it.  On the subject of disinformation which Flat Earth and Chemtrails and a myriad of other things are about we don't have just the word of US Intelligence agencies that are all saying pretty much the same thing but that analysis is supported by the intelligence agencies pretty much everywhere else -- but I guess they could all be controlled by the CIA.  Interestingly, Google, Facebook and Twitter have all admitted to being unwitting assistants to these acts and recent actions by YT would suggest they are finaly getting serious about them.

So, I'm not hallucinating this, the intelligence services around the world aren't making it up, and the corporations that have been the playground where these actions have taken place have all admitted that it has happened and that it continues.


Brian
 


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