General > General Technical Chat
[Banter] What is the worst software you have used for its price?
RedLion:
I'd like to add MathCad to the list.
I don't even get the point of it, like what problem are they trying to solve?
The syntax is so confusing that you are forced to use the drop down menus, the UI is MS Office, but worse, and of course it's nice and slow.
It's like someone thought "what if we made MATLAB, but worse?"
Oh well, at least it's reasonably cheap.
Zero999:
--- Quote from: eti on May 23, 2022, 08:49:12 am ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 23, 2022, 08:02:14 am ---
--- Quote from: free_electron on May 23, 2022, 04:49:46 am ---It is not possible to do that with software.
--- End quote ---
Not with dumb software and dumb data buffering schemes, no..
But let's say you have a 8-bit ADC and 64-byte cachelines, and as you receive the data, you construct a parallel lookup of min-max values, filling another cacheline per 32 cachelines (2048 samples). You've now dropped the memory bandwidth required to find min-max for any range to 1/32th, except that the start and end points have a granularity of 64 samples. (So do those cachelines separately, I guess.)
Similarly, if you can reorder the received data so that you get the cachelines across waveforms, you can construct the display from left to right and use all sorts of clever spanning techniques. Even antialiased lines boils down to lots and lots of additions, and a few not-too-large lookup tables (that depend on the time base and such).
Using an ARM or Intel/AMD core for that kind of stupid work makes no sense. The cores are slow at that sort of stuff, and you're paying for nothing there. Instead, stick a DSP or similar between the acquire buffer and the UI processor, so that the UI processor computes and sets the lookup tables and memory transfers, and the DSP just spits out intensity slices (say, 5-bit full-height pixel columns) that the UI processor then just composes into the display.
To do this sort of stuff right, one must think of the data flow. A very similar thing really bugs me with most simulator software running on HPC clusters: they calculate, then communicate, then calculate, then communicate, and so on, instead of doing them both at the same time. Why? Because it is hard to think of what data needs to be transferred after the next step, when the next step is yet to be calculated. The data does need to be present before the next time step is calculated, so essentially your data transfers need to be at least one step ahead, and that means predictive and/or heuristic transfers without false negatives (you can transfer extra, but you need to transfer all that are needed), node load balancing, and so on... Just too hard for programmers who can always just tell professors to buy more and newer hardware.
--- Quote from: eti on May 23, 2022, 07:13:22 am ---Linux is simultaneously a good and bad thing. It's as good as the price we pay, because the "support" is "piss off, you should know this, we learnt and so now must you, and learn all the new acronyms and syntax which some autistic 'community' assumes you knew from birth, and we know you have a busy life, but spend a month trawling sourceforge, then compile... rinse and repeat"
--- End quote ---
No, that's not it.
For open source communities, end users are a net negative: a cost, not a benefit. Only those who contribute back, somehow, are worth the effort of helping. What "actual 9-5 humans want, need and use" is absolutely, completely irrelevant. This is why Linux greybeards laugh at you when you say something like "you need to do X so that Linux can become as popular as Y". It is as silly to us as Insta-gran and Fakebook "influencers" demanding free food and accommodation.
As to why paid Linux end-user support is relatively hard to find, I think it is because getting such an commercial venture going is highly risky. It is relatively simple to set up Linux user support in an organization, but as a commercial service, you have huge risks from customers who vent their disappointment at Linux not being a drop-in Windows replacement at you, ruining your reputation at the same time. The risks aren't worth the gains.
I mean, I consider you, eti, a professional person. But I for sure would not like to put anyone under your ire at Linux and open source. The £20 or so an hour you'd be willing to pay would not be worth it.
Perhaps it is time to just admit that Linux and open source is not for you. And that's fine; it's not supposed to be for everyone, it's just a tool among others.
--- End quote ---
“Not for you”? Lol. I’ve been using it as a seasoned pro since 2004. That’ll be a common mistake of assuming you know someone online.
The issue with Linux is not so much Linux as the arrogance of the obsessives and how they decry “evil” (read: hugely hard working, clever and deservedly successful) Microsoft etc. Sour grapes sure make a lot of whine.
Linux fans whine about the fact that the hardware that is designed and made for a profitable market, IE the gargantuan and profitable desktop and server market, isn’t able to run perfectly on Linux etc etc. Hey guys, make your own hardware if you’re that upset (hang on, that would require a large paying user base and parts market that form around it due to it being dominant and used EVERYWHERE FOR DECADES)
Whiners wine. I’ve heard (and stupidly taken part in) every conceivable, predictable pro Linux debate ever online, and the same junk goes round and round for years. Windows pays bills, work involving windows pays bills. Work done on Macs pays bills. Servers running Linux pays huge bills too. Desktop Linux is what’s left at the end of the meal. That’s how it panned out.
If they want to be successful TRULY, then it’s time to walk out of the pity party, go home and put on their suits and go do some selling, never mind everyone else. Linux people love to evangelise and criticise. That massages egos but doesn’t pay well.
--- End quote ---
Linux developers don't give a toss about whether their software is used or not. The situation regarding help and support with Linux is similar to those asking questions on this forum. He explained it quite well at the end of the post linked below:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/programming/rust-is-political/msg4188961/#msg4188961
In other words, to the developers, most of the time users are just a pain in the bum. They ask silly questions. The only time they're helpful is when they find bugs, but for a developer to help you, you need to convince them you've tried everything and researched the problem properly.
This doesn't count the Linux fanboys who are convinced it's the best thing ever and everyone should use it.
Nominal Animal:
--- Quote from: eti on May 23, 2022, 08:49:12 am ---
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on May 23, 2022, 08:02:14 am ---Perhaps it is time to just admit that Linux and open source is not for you. And that's fine; it's not supposed to be for everyone, it's just a tool among others.
--- End quote ---
“Not for you”? Lol. I’ve been using it as a seasoned pro since 2004. That’ll be a common mistake of assuming you know someone online.
--- End quote ---
If using an OS made me that unhappy, I'd just switch.
I do not believe you can be much of a pro when you do not even understand the basic operating principles of the developer communities, and so deeply, so emotionally, hate the software and its developers.
--- Quote from: eti on May 23, 2022, 08:49:12 am ---The issue with Linux is not so much Linux as the arrogance of the obsessives and how they decry “evil” (read: hugely hard working, clever and deservedly successful) Microsoft etc. Sour grapes sure make a lot of whine.
--- End quote ---
Eh? Past business practices are what made Microsoft evil. It is much less evil now. I personally wouldn't even use "evil" for MS anymore; especially not compared to social media companies.
Claiming that anyone who thought that was only "arrogant obsessive sour grapes who whine a lot", is just lying. Perhaps it helps you feel better about yourself, but it has nothing to do with the truth. If you ignore how open source developer communities work, and assume they are just your personal support forum, it's your own damn fault you're ignored and not helped, not theirs.
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 23, 2022, 12:46:11 pm ---In other words, to the developers, most of the time users are just a pain in the bum. They ask silly questions. The only time they're helpful is when they find bugs, but for a developer to help you, you need to convince them you've tried everything and researched the problem properly.
This doesn't count the Linux fanboys who are convinced it's the best thing ever and everyone should use it.
--- End quote ---
True. Like I said, time, effort, and knowledge is currency. Spend some to help the developers, and they'll help you back.
I'm not sure which group I have more practical trouble with, the ones who insist on using the term "open sores", or the Linux or FOSS fanbois.
Reminds me of the time when I was seven or so, and hammered about a thousand nails into a small piece of log. I made a hedgehog!
Not exactly a good use of a hammer and nails, in hindsight.
bd139:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on May 23, 2022, 12:46:11 pm ---Linux developers don't give a toss about whether their software is used or not. The situation regarding help and support with Linux is similar to those asking questions on this forum. He explained it quite well at the end of the post linked below:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/programming/rust-is-political/msg4188961/#msg4188961
In other words, to the developers, most of the time users are just a pain in the bum. They ask silly questions. The only time they're helpful is when they find bugs, but for a developer to help you, you need to convince them you've tried everything and researched the problem properly.
This doesn't count the Linux fanboys who are convinced it's the best thing ever and everyone should use it.
--- End quote ---
Oh hell I'm not getting involved in that thread at all.
You're right. I don't get involved in open source any more. I used to. No one gives a shit and most of the developers I've had the misfortune of having to deal with are basically comic book guy from the Simpsons. Some of them are positively mentally unwell. I know that's cruel but it's true. I've tried over and over to get things fixed. I've tried fixing them myself and PR'ing them in as requested. I either get a face full of crap or silence. Waste of time so I don't bother. I merely leverage the pile of shit to make money. I don't even do that now - I prefer to tell other people what to do for more money and not have to deal with that level of problem :-DD
What's even worse is it's the same with paid support options from Redhat etc as well. They employ a lot of the core developers and it's impossible even getting them to fix or patch something.
Then again that's most software companies. I will notable exclude Apple and Microsoft on that as I have actually had defects acknowledged and fixed from both vendors on a non galactic timescale.
eugene:
Since the discussion seems headed in the direction of "the worst software ever is anything FOSS" I'll counter with this: over the decades, the worst software I've used were programs that I paid some solo hobbyist $20 for.
(Bit of advice: if you write a post and find that most of the content is just rehashing your tired old complaint about some generalized group of people you disagree with, then don't press the "Post" button.)
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