[solved] [little rant] eBay seller charges +20 USD because he has to pay rent

[DiTBho]

When people asks me why I no more use eBay ... well, here some clues.

I spent five days following an auction which I finally won, so paid for couple of micro-drives plus 34.98 USD for the shipping and received them both damaged.




I filled a couple of lines over the claim-module on eBay to inform the seller that I received a soft envelope rather a rigid package, the inner goods arrived damaged, and there must be also a mistake, since, apart from the fact that the goods is pure garbage, I did pay for a courier not for a cheap surface service, the price and the kind of the service is different.

... and *this* is what a "top seller with 5 stars and 100% positive feedback" answered me privately over email:

stupid ****. selling on ebay costs money. fees, packaging material, i have to pay rent, storage costs, overhead. that's why they call it shipping and HANDLING you retarded ****. I had to also wait online. time is also money. I CHARGED TOO LITTLE! How about sending me more money for my time you worthless piece of garbage!!!

He doesn't want to refund (no problem Paypal will solve it), but that's definitively the funniest answer ever read about inflated shipping prices justification - "because I have to pay rent, storage, costs overhead" - , and for sure I'll send him a basket of a peanuts as a thank you for the time he spent giving a so hilarious answer : -DD

If he had asked me, I would have paid for them without problems, indeed I would have even paid an extra as long as he had shipped with a courier, as it was written in the auction!

Seriously, that's the root of problems on eBay: when people don't spend enough time and money for properly packaging, and then ... the goods arrives nothing but damaged!

When will they learn it? When? ...


edit:
solved by Paypal 

[wilfred]

I hope you get it sorted out.

But what I really want to read about in these sorts of stories is what Ebay does to protect buyers (and their reputation). And for me the real root of the problem is how a seller that communicates like this gets a 5 star 100% reputation. It is not a perfect world so a good seller can occasionally come a cropper with an unexpected problem. It is how they sort it out that counts in my mind. And then they should get the high star ratings.

In my Utopian view of the world of online transactions no-one should average 5 stars. An average no issues transaction should be 2.5 stars. But that ship has sailed long ago. Now with 5 stars the default for problem free transactions you can't distinguish the sellers who'll go above and beyond. Perhaps the feedback reports are of some help but who reads those in detail. I just check the negative ones to see if there is a consistent pattern I would be concerned about.

[MrMobodies]

I once you use to order some screens and may other parts  on Ebay, I would confirm that the it was packaged in a certain way and offer more if I wasn't happy for it be in a foam and box.

Quite a few the times the seller lied to me and it came in a flimsy unsuitable packaging.

... and *this* is what a "top seller with 5 stars and 100% positive feedback" answered me privately over email:

stupid ****. selling on ebay costs money. fees, packaging material, i have to pay rent, storage costs, overhead. that's why they call it shipping and HANDLING you retarded ****. I had to also wait online. time is also money. I CHARGED TOO LITTLE! How about sending me more money for my time you worthless piece of garbage!!!

Did you report the seller for that?

I once had a seller who would not let me pay for an item I "brought" or even cancel, would not communicate to me or Ebay and gave me a non payment strike after.
This seller was also complaining about reclaiming the sellers fee when they did respond after a review I left on their Google profile to get their attention but that wasn't the case they were there and paying attention.

I think they were having a bad time, see pictures, who was selling some cabinet trays, it said "postage paid" but ambiguosly something at the bottom about I think it was the weight of the item but I found it was unclear. So I when I brought the item and went to pay for it a message requiring me to contact seller to calaculate delivery first". So I contacted the seller asking to calculate delivery and also may I cancel if too much as it wasn't clear in the details or listing and no response.

A week went by so phoned ebay, they contact the seller but no response, they tried a couple of times and assured me it is okay the seller was possibly away and if the listing time runs out and seller is still not there I'd be okay.

A couple of weeks just after it ended I got an ebay payment strike for not paying and I got en email from contact customer services that they were watching an removed the strike it saying it was unfair.
I looked at the listing history of the listing and it was changed a day after my message and decription was altered "Postage paid...... .     if you do understand do not bid."

I pursued him on Google by his company name and then he started to respond for the first time to me on ebay saying that I had a temper trantrum, it is all my fault, the process was straight foward, I was immature and childish etc, ignoring the point that I was trying to get his attention and accused me of not paying for the item. There is no way I could pay for it as i I prevented from doing so due to delivery options the seller set to calcukate delivery and when I did he wouldn't do anything nor communicate. If I knew it I had contact the seller first to calculate delivery I would have done that before buying it.

I phoned ebay up about the behaviour and they agreed it was not right and said something that sellers can get "punished" for that kind of behaviour as it won't tolerated and they will report and investigate.

[Berni]

Its a common chinese ebay/aliexpress trick to under price the item then make back some of the money in overcharging for shipping.

The lower price helps them stand out among everyone else even tho in the end it costs the same once you factor in the shipping.

But yeah bad low effort packing of the product is the worst. I typically take out my phone and start taking photos as i unpack it when something looks like it is packed poorly, to have extra proof if it does end up damaged.

But the people that pack things exceptionally well don't get the attention on ebay as the occasional feedback that does mention it gets buried under generic copy paste feedback.

[bd139]

Ah a dick head. I had that a while back with a seller here. He sent an small HP power supply in a large Jiffy bag and it was smashed to bits on receipt. I complained and he said I probably broke it when I received it and called me all sorts of names.

Just claim against it and let eBay deal with it. Don’t even talk to them. You don’t have to. All that ends up is time wasted and an idiot validated. When you’ve got your money back, report them for seller misconduct!

In my case the guy decided he wanted to cost himself more money to shop the trash back  and sent me a UPS return label. I gladly obliged by chucking it back in the bag as provided and covering the holes with tape...

[Ed.Kloonk]

Ah a dick head. I had that a while back with a seller here. He sent an small HP power supply in a large Jiffy bag and it was smashed to bits on receipt. I complained and he said I probably broke it when I received it and called me all sorts of names.

Just claim against it and let eBay deal with it. Don’t even talk to them. You don’t have to. All that ends up is time wasted and an idiot validated. When you’ve got your money back, report them for seller misconduct!

In my case the guy decided he wanted to cost himself more money to shop the trash back  and sent me a UPS return label. I gladly obliged by chucking it back in the bag as provided and covering the holes with tape...

Record the opening of packages like some youtubers do. Film it for your own evidence, I mean.

Helps with being short-changed on quantity too.

[Ice-Tea]

In all honnesty: he does have a point. To expect hime to charge the same for shipping as he is being charged is not realistic. His reasoning is entirely sound.

The namecalling... that I don't get  Not sure what he is expecting, but no good can come from that.

[Alex Eisenhut]

In all honnesty: he does have a point. To expect hime to charge the same for shipping as he is being charged is not realistic. His reasoning is entirely sound.

The namecalling... that I don't get  Not sure what he is expecting, but no good can come from that.

If his reasoning is entirely sound, why did he willingly engage in an ebay auction? The policies and fees are described for sellers.

Selling on eBay is no panacea, not a simple way to make money, and all his claimed expenses should be reflected in the price of the item.

When you buy a tomato at the grocery store, do they suddenly add all their overhead when you get to the checkout?

[DiTBho]

Did you report the seller for that?

Sure, yesterday I did, and I have just read their answer: they don't do anything. OK, again, Paypal will solve it! No problem!

eBay has changed recently. When I registered my account over 10 years ago, it was a serious place and feedback was serious. Last time I reported someone due to unprofessional behavior like wanting to save on packaging by charging higher costs, they didn't do anything, they didn't refund anything and since I had to ask Paypal to fix it, I left a negative feedback to the seller.

A few weeks later, discovered by chance that that feedback had been removed, I emailed them asking why, and that's what they replied:

[...]
I checked the feedback you left and although it did not meet the criteria for MANUAL REMOVAL, it qualified for system removal. Due to one of the seller’s privileges which he exercised on this issue.

At the same time, for the purposes of giving you a peace of mind please know that you did not do anything wrong. I assure you that the removal does not have anything to do with negatives or violations against you. It’s just more on the default settings on our system along with the seller’s privileges.
[...]

Things change, OK, the Covid emergency is causing problems, OK, but I don't agree with what I found they do (and don't do when they should do) now.

[DiTBho]

I typically take out my phone and start taking photos as i unpack it when something looks like it is packed poorly, to have extra proof if it does end up damaged.

Yes. Paypal considers the photos when you ask if you can send the goods back to the seller because it arrived damaged and you have photos to prove it. With eBay my experience is not good on this.

I remember when I bought a whole batch of HD44780 LCDs and they were delivered to the wrong place. I'm not sure if the problem was caused by the postman rather than a manual error when the seller prepared the package label. In any case, I wrote an email to eBay with my home address and the address where the package was delivered (according to the tracking information), two different addresses, but they have not considered it.

I sent the same email to Paypal, and they solved the problem.

[Ice-Tea]

In all honnesty: he does have a point. To expect hime to charge the same for shipping as he is being charged is not realistic. His reasoning is entirely sound.

The namecalling... that I don't get  Not sure what he is expecting, but no good can come from that.

If his reasoning is entirely sound, why did he willingly engage in an ebay auction? The policies and fees are described for sellers.

Selling on eBay is no panacea, not a simple way to make money, and all his claimed expenses should be reflected in the price of the item.

When you buy a tomato at the grocery store, do they suddenly add all their overhead when you get to the checkout?

But that doesn't seem what is happening here? The OP seems distressed that the shipping charges were 35$ while the stamp on the enveloppe only is 15$?

[Bud]

If that is the case which it seems to be, then to my opinion OP's claim does not hold water. OP accepted shipping fees when bought the item. And i do not see from the original screenshots that the seller said the item will ship using a courier.
Name calling though from seller's side  is not acceptable.

[DiTBho]

The OP seems distressed that the shipping charges were 35$ while the stamp on the enveloppe only is 15$?

"distressed" means suffering from anxiety, sorrow, or pain. No panic, I am fine, I'm simply a bit "worried" about the shallowness certain sellers and eBay itself operate, but I am not "distressed", I received two damaged micro-drives that's the only real problem here because I cannot complete a project, Paypal can refund but cannot find two working micro-drives for me, and I have to look myself somewhere and find other two units.

But hey? Nobody died, nothing exploded or burned up, so that's nothing serious ...
... it will simple take more time 

[ reassuring post ]

[MrMobodies]

Did you report the seller for that?

A few weeks later, discovered by chance that that feedback had been removed, I emailed them asking why, and that's what they replied:

[...]
I checked the feedback you left and although it did not meet the criteria for MANUAL REMOVAL, it qualified for system removal. Due to one of the seller’s privileges which he exercised on this issue.
[...]

Things change, OK, the Covid emergency is causing problems, OK, but I don't agree with what I found they do (and don't do when they should do) now.

There was an Ebay seller by the name of ExtremeSupplies (ExtremesuppliesLtd) now Ex_digital that used some kind of defamination form to gradually remove negative feedback as they were selling used/broken stuff as brand new in bags that they sealed themselves to make it look new.

I was watching their feedback scores for a while and it looks they couldn't get rid of all of the negative feedback but now I see they just changed their name.

[DiTBho]

OP accepted shipping fees when bought the item.
And i do not see from the original screenshots that the seller said the item will ship using a courier.

Correct!

The seller didn't mention it in his auction, he simply wrote "35 USD S/H" (shipping and handling cost), however I had contacted him asking to include my phone number and he answered that it was possible with a courier service. So, I assumed he did it, and I was expecting to have paid 35 USD for such a service.

eBay doesn't consider personal messages, I sent them a copy, but it was useless.
Anyway, the point is:

The goods arrived damaged, I'd like to return the goods.
(today email from them:) No, you can't.
Why?
Because the seller wrote "return not accepted" in his auction.
Claim closed!

eBay ....   

[DiTBho]

There was an Ebay seller by the name of ExtremeSupplies (ExtremesuppliesLtd) now Ex_digital that used some kind of defamination form to gradually remove negative feedback as they were selling used/broken stuff as brand new in bags that they sealed themselves to make it look new.

Ah! This kind of person on eBay! They think they are smart! Perhaps with some privilege? Perhaps with some "bypass" like when artists can jump the queue to the restaurant?

Damn ... they are true artists since they make it hard nowadays to trust common sellers.

[Psi]

Part of the skill of using any online market place is noticing the subtle clues in the listings that let you know which ones to stay well away from

From that guys email I expect there would have been something in the listing that should have set off alarm bells.

[Fred27]

I don't think it's fair to complain about the cost of shipping. It's what you agreed to pay and it arrived. Shipping does vary from free to obviously being part of the price of the item. (In one reply you say you're not too bothered by that, but it is the title of the original post.)

As far as the rest of it goes, it's hard to say without seeing the original eBay listing. I find that "returns not accepted" often goes hand-in-hand with items that are listed as untested or for spares/repairs. Calling you a **** does sound unreasonable though (unless of course you we being a **** ).

[grumpydoc]

eBay doesn't consider personal messages, I sent them a copy, but it was useless.
Anyway, the point is:

The goods arrived damaged, I'd like to return the goods.
(today email from them:) No, you can't.
Why?
Because the seller wrote "return not accepted" in his auction.
Claim closed!

eBay ....   

eBay can be so ... disappointing.

Putting "no returns accepted" should not protect sellers from shipping garbage or packing an item so badly it arrives in pieces - indeed in the UK it doesn't but you mentioned prices in USD so I assume this was an international sale - in which case there probably isn't all that much eBay can do.

In the UK no seller is exempt from the basic provisions of "as described" and "fit for purpose", no commercial seller can opt out of the distance selling regs (so 14 days any-reason return). Some try by not registering business accounts with eBay but it's usually obvious and you can complain to eBay about the misrepresentation (it's fraud so fairly serious).

Sometimes you have to explain it v_e_r_y__s_l_o_w_l_y to eBay though.

[SilverSolder]

LOL this has to be the easiest case ever to win with the eBay dispute resolution!

[Brumby]

Anyway, the point is:

The goods arrived damaged, I'd like to return the goods.
(today email from them:) No, you can't.
Why?
Because the seller wrote "return not accepted" in his auction.
Claim closed!

eBay ....   

OK, don't return them - just raise an "Item not as described" dispute.

If an item was advertised as working and you get something that isn't - then there's NO avenue for a seller to escape responsibility.  Even outside of eBay, I don't know of any legal jurisdiction where such a principle doesn't exist.  It is the Seller's responsibility to take the required steps to ensure items are delivered as represented - and they should have worked out all the necessary costs involved and clearly declared them in the listing.

This is what ANY buyer should expect - and what eBay should oversee DOES happen.

[Fred27]

I couldn't resist a little digging. Is it This eBay item you bought? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Seagate-5GB-Compact-Flash-Type-II-ST1-Drive-Hard-Drive-CFII-Card-/193270881804?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l10137.c10&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

The listing states $11.99 each and ($29.99 + $11.99 = $41.98) for shipping to the UK, so it sounds like he gave you a discount on both the items and the quoted shipping. They are clearly shown as repaired. It appears to have taken you 3 months to decide they didn't work. Obviously I don't know the details of your discussions, but things are never quite as black-and-white as they might seem.

[grumpydoc]

OK, don't return them - just raise an "Item not as described" dispute.

The OP did tell eBay the items were damaged, but - yes - make sure you raise the right return request and use "item not as described" for broken or faulty items.

and they should have worked out all the necessary costs involved and clearly declared them in the listing.

To a point - the seller should put the p&p clearly on the item but I don't think a break down of costs is necessary. eBay now require that the seller says what type of service will be used though - so if the listing says "courier" it should be a courier (I have occasionally sued a faster service than advertised at my own cost though).

[Ian.M]

...
eBay now require that the seller says what type of service will be used though - so if the listing says "courier" it should be a courier (I have occasionally sued a faster service than advertised at my own cost though).

So you are gratuitously litigious if a package is delivered earlier than expected?    Good luck with that!   

[grumpydoc]

Oops - the keyboard here is really not very good 

I meant as a seller anyway.