[solved] [little rant] eBay seller charges +20 USD because he has to pay rent

[wraper]

IMHO your main problem with ebay is that you open cases with weak or no evidence, probably poorly described for layman. Then when it falls through, you upload some real evidence, but it's too late since appeal is way less likely to succeed.

Jesus ... weak or no evidence?!?

I received two damaged units, when I opened my claim for the "eBay protection program" I sent them all the pics about the two units, my test report on Linux when you see "sector-0 failure", a pic of the parcel, a pic with what I paid on eBay for the shipping and what is reported on the Parcel, what else do they want!?!?

Exactly as I said, poor evidence, poorly described claim.

my test report on Linux when you see "sector-0 failure"

Really? how do you expect average person to figure out anything from that?

a pic of the parcel

not quite relevant to the case. Packaged in a bag? In what way it proves that item was damaged? Especially to someone who has no technical knowledge.

a pic with what I paid on eBay for the shipping and what is reported on the Parcel

Irrelevant to the case. Complaining about unfair shipping rate will not add you any points in damaged item case. Only take away attention from the real issue. Support person will not look into your case for long since they have another shitload of cases to review. They will probably glance into it for a minute or less.

what else do they want!?!?

Maybe concise and easily understandable explanation to layman. Picture where mechanical damage is noticeable. Some easily understandable screenshot.

[rsjsouza]

Although I did not participate in the whole story (i.e., I only know your side), I would think hardly to name the seller. Sure, it may have misunderstanding factors such as what constitutes shipping charges (if they include handling as well or not - I personally don't think it does) but the e-mail behaviour is more universally accepted as a terrible interaction.

The biggest reason to do this in my opinion is to prevent your fellow blogger (especially if he/she lives overseas) to avoid a very unpleasant interaction with potential monetary losses.

There is a thread somewhere named the "bad shopping experience thread" - perhaps a good place to put this there.

[DiTBho]

IMHO your main problem with ebay is that you open cases with weak or no evidence, probably poorly described for layman. Then when it falls through, you upload some real evidence, but it's too late since appeal is way less likely to succeed.

Jesus ... weak or no evidence?!?

I received two damaged units, when I opened my claim for the "eBay protection program" I sent them all the pics about the two units, my test report on Linux when you see "sector-0 failure", a pic of the parcel, a pic with what I paid on eBay for the shipping and what is reported on the Parcel, what else do they want!?!?

Exactly as I said, poor evidence, poorly described claim.

my test report on Linux when you see "sector-0 failure"

Really? how do you expect average person to figure out anything from that?

a pic of the parcel

not quite relevant to the case. Packaged in a bag? In what way it proves that item was damaged?

a pic with what I paid on eBay for the shipping and what is reported on the Parcel

Irrelevant to the case. Complaining about unfair shipping rate will not add you any points in damaged item case. Only take away attention from the real issue. Support person will not look into your case for long since they have another shitload of cases to review. They will probably glance into it for a minute or less.

what else do they want!?!?

Maybe concise and easily understandable explanation to layman. Picture where mechanical damage is noticeable. Some easily understandable screenshot.

What would YOU have written in this case? Let me know.

[wraper]

What would YOU have written in this case? Let me know.

I would omit anything that is not relevant. Check if I can find any mechanical impact marks. If I have no any other evidence, maybe post a photo where it is attached to windows machine but is not recognized.

[DiTBho]

Sure, it may have misunderstanding factors such as what constitutes shipping charges (if they include handling as well or not - I personally don't think it does) but the e-mail behaviour is more universally accepted as a terrible interaction.

And, let me understand, do these "misunderstanding" factors somehow allow a seller to insult and threaten a customer?!? Seriously?

If so, that's exactly what I don't like of the American mentality because it seems like a far west where people solve problems with guns. Don't take offensive, but it's what I do think after two experiences like this 

[DiTBho]

eBay com simply closed the dispute because the seller had declared the items as "no return accepted", which is even against the European and British law since you always have two weeks for the right of withdrawal.

[DiTBho]

This was more than enough for Paypal. The problem with eBay was "no return accepted". The seller had it written in in his auction, hence eBay didn't care anything else.

That's not how eBay Europe would have reacted. I don't have a lot of disputes, but I have always had my items returned when bought in Europe!

[DiTBho]

Conclusion:
I have just voluntarily closed my dispute with Paypal even if the return parcel is still traveling back to the seller. I have simply enough. Yesterday this dude called me "crook" but it's my decision that he will take my money and the parcel I have already shipped him back.

[wraper]

Conclusion:
I have just voluntarily closed my dispute with Paypal even if the return parcel is still traveling back to the seller. I have simply enough. Yesterday this dude called me "crook" but it's my decision that he will take my money and the parcel I have already shipped him back.

After all of the fuse. I would never voluntarily let some douchebag to keep my money. You just awarded his moronic attitude

I have simply enough.

Cannot handle a few rude emails from some dickhead. Do you enjoy feeling wronged or what? Man up.

[rsjsouza]

Sure, it may have misunderstanding factors such as what constitutes shipping charges (if they include handling as well or not - I personally don't think it does) but the e-mail behaviour is more universally accepted as a terrible interaction.

And, let me understand, do these "misunderstanding" factors somehow allow a seller to insult and threaten a customer?!? Seriously?

Re-read my post. You are conflating the two points I made.

If so, that's exactly what I don't like of the American mentality because it seems like a far west where people solve problems with guns. Don't take offensive, but it's what I do think after two experiences like this 

I am an American but of the South variety, and I can guarantee you that the "far west" mentality is not exclusive to the New World - likewise, don't take offense but this is pervasive in the Old World as well, and the colonization process was particularly sofisticated in this.

I can understand you pulling the Paypal dispute for the sake of your own sanity, but you are letting the guy go 100% scot-free from his shenanigans.

[SilverSolder]

Conclusion:
I have just voluntarily closed my dispute with Paypal even if the return parcel is still traveling back to the seller. I have simply enough. Yesterday this dude called me "crook" but it's my decision that he will take my money and the parcel I have already shipped him back.

At least leave him a glaring red negative feedback.

"Item broke from inadequate packaging, seller responded with abuse, worst ever eBay experience - Avoid"

[DiTBho]

Cannot handle a few rude emails from some dickhead. Do you enjoy feeling wronged or what? Man up.

One thing I can't tolerate because it's bad for the blood is when people insult and threaten. I blocked him before he wrote the last email, but that mustn't have stopped him from writing from a new email address, and I certainly prefer to avoid getting mad about such silly things.

So, is this person so poor that needs to behave this way for 50 USD? I am a serious respectable person, and I don't want to risk going down to his same level.

Yesterday I was seriously tempted to reply his emails with the same tone he used, then I thought about it, and if his problem is money, well, by letting him all the money, he will go his way, I will go my way

[DiTBho]

At least leave him a glaring red negative feedback.
"Item broke from inadequate packaging, seller responded with abuse, worst ever eBay experience - Avoid"

eBay America reserves the right to delete a negative feedback if the sellers has privileges (especially if the buyer is not-american). It's the fourth time I repeat it. Re-read the post from the operator. I don't know how this seller can be "a top seller" with 5 stars in every field, but it's irrelevant, for the hidden rule of eBay America a top seller has the privilege to have his negative feedback deleted.

[..]
Those privileges can be earned by making sure your account is in good standings for a long time, have proven high satisfactory ratings from buyers, high resolve rate and etc

I checked the feedback you left and although it did not meet the criteria for MANUAL REMOVAL, it qualified for system removal. Due to one of the seller’s privileges which he exercised on this issue.

At the same time, for the purposes of giving you a peace of mind please know that you did not do anything wrong. I assure you that the removal does not have anything to do with negatives or violations against you. It’s just more on the default settings on our system along with the seller’s privileges. Keep in mind that although the removed feedback is not visible for other eBay members to see, we still have a record of it, and we will always be able to refer to it if necessary.
[..]

That's what happened with a similar recent case when an american "sent me the wrong laptop", refused to find a solution until I asked Paypal to sort it out. I left him a negative feedback because the item was not as described and he forced me to call Paypal, and I some time later found my feedback deleted. I asked why, an eBay american operator told me the above.  So it's a waste of time and I don't want to make my blood bad even for this, especially with a poor and probably deranged person who will for sure send me new angry emails.

[wraper]

I left him a negative feedback because the item was not as described and he forced me to call Paypal, and I some time later found my feedback deleted. I asked why, an eBay american operator told me the above.  So it's a waste of time and I don't want to make my blood bad even for this, especially with a poor and probably deranged person who will for sure send me new angry emails.

What in particular you wrote in that feedback? Did you threaten the seller with leaving negative feedback before doing so? It needs to meet criteria for removal.

Negative feedback left by a buyer with unpaid items
Feedback which violates eBay policies, for example if it is threatening, offensive, vulgar or includes personal details of the seller
Attempted feedback extortion by a buyer

[DiTBho]

What in particular you wrote in that feedback? Did you threaten the seller with leaving negative feedback before doing so? It needs to meet criteria for removal.

My feedback was: "seller sent me the wrong laptop, refused to find a solution until I called Paypal".
In fact, have you carefully read what the eBay operator replied?

[..]
At the same time, for the purposes of giving you a peace of mind please know that you did not do anything wrong. I assure you that the removal does not have anything to do with negatives or violations against you. It’s just more on the default settings on our system along with the seller’s privileges
[..]

[DiTBho]

Then there is also another big problem related to eBay US sellers:

We regularly review the eBay trading activities of our top sellers, and we wanted to let you know that you need to upgrade your account from a private account to a business account. We need you to make these changes to your account within the next 28 days. If you don’t, your selling privileges may be blocked.

Therefore, eBay requires the sellers to specify whether their account is a business account rather than a private account.

We all have our reasons, privates have different privileges and possibilities than business ones, especially in the US, but why does should it matter for Europeans?

Well, for the different customs rules we all have with the local customs!

Basically, if you import a parcel and the included documentation report it as "business deal"  you are subjected to different a table that is different from the table the customs applies you when the parcel is reported as "private deal".

Code: [Select]

if (business_deal)
{
    importing_fees = table_A(category, flat_cost)
    if (declared_value > trigger_A)
    {
         importing_fees += table_A(category, declared_value)
    }
}
else
{
    importing_fees = table_B(category, flat_cost)
    if (declared_value > trigger_B)
    {
         importing_fees += table_B(category, declared_value)
    }
}

Since (table_A != table_B) and (trigger_A != trigger_B), it's something that matters for Europeans, including that if the seller declares the false (private deal when it's business deal), well ... it could be considered "customs evasion", and if the seller doesn't understand it, you could have serious troubles.

That's why eBay.com blocked a lot of accounts in 2009, and I personally think it was strict but fair!

Unfortunately, years later, we are back to the old problem, since there are still around those who state they are "private seller", when they are "business seller", and they don't care when this could cause problems to the buyer with the customs!

And, worse still, there are those who make false statements with the customs documentation 

That's what happened to me in August 2020 during the dispute over the "wrong laptop" when the seller stated he sent me the "wrong laptop" when I pointed out it was not the one I had bought because it had too many undeclared defects!

It's not a rule, but basically a "business" account tends to sells more "brand new" objects than "second hand" ones. It's not a rule because there are companies who refurbish laptops. Anyway, if you are a company the rule is to declare it on eBay in a way the buyer can understand it.

Usually with the company's phone number and an address.

There were none of them in the auction, so I was convinced I bought from a private being rather than from a company, and this caused problem with the customs because they blocked the parcel for verification and since it was not clear they asked me to send them a copy of the Paypal receipt, so they understood it was not a private deal.

I had to spend time at the phone and I had to pay a little fine.

I didn't mention it in my feedback but I reported it to eBay and thanks god one good thing they made was forcing that dude to comply with the rules by which you make buyers understand that you are not a private seller!

Thanks god, I have just looked at his account, and it seems eBay did one right thing after all: that dude now has his company's phone and address mentioned in his lists. I only hope he will prepare the customs documentation properly for his future buyers.

There is hope!

[MrMobodies]

So my understanding is that the seller listed the item location local to you.

If that is the case and I brought something from a seller where the "Item location" is listed somewhee in the same country as me, whether the seller is from a different country or not or the item is actually here or not why should it be the customers problem? Whether it is late and/or incures customs.

I remembered once when I searched for something specifically local to me in the UK, saw things like "UK seller" "fast delivery" etc  but  didn't arrive within estimated delivery date which was a about a couple of days but a week went by, then I discovered it was a Chinese seller somewhere that didn't have any stock as I saw others were complaining about items arriving late or not arriving at all so I phone Ebay up to complain and they refunded me straight away.

So now I check to see if the seller lives in the country or if they have warehouses.

There was another time I nearly ordered something but found out it was a Chinese seller pretending to be in the UK and I reported them.

I think on their profile I notice in small words at the top China but no business details and nothing in the listing at the bottom about the seller's contact details.

These were new thinsg sold in large quantities so I'd imagine they'd be a business.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Item location is a farce on eBay. And so is the 'Not as Described'. I would try and only buy the items that appear to be local sellers. Yet, if the item hasn't turned up after a few days, I am aware that I was conned and to expect foam package that has had customs clearance and a 3 week delay.

We paid extra for a product closer to home and eBay does not care about blatant rip offs and serial sellers who ignore eBay terms.

[SilverSolder]

Item location is a farce on eBay. And so is the 'Not as Described'. I would try and only buy the items that appear to be local sellers. Yet, if the item hasn't turned up after a few days, I am aware that I was conned and to expect foam package that has had customs clearance and a 3 week delay.

We paid extra for a product closer to home and eBay does not care about blatant rip offs and serial sellers who ignore eBay terms.

eBay cares if enough people complain and/or give low Stars ratings when giving feedback.  So, a seller that serially fails to satisfy the punters will eventually get the chop.

98% of the times, sellers are super helpful.  E.g. just recently I bought a pack of 3 NOS vintage diodes.  One turned out to be defective.  Contacted seller with a picture showing my meter testing the dud diode compared to a good one.  He slipped another one in the post with no further ado.

You can get a long way if you begin by assuming that the seller is "OK and trying to do a job".

[Ed.Kloonk]

You can get a long way if you begin by assuming that the seller is "OK and trying to do a job".

If they are misrepresenting their item location so the buyer believes that it is indeed a well-intentioned seller in the same city, then they are sneaks. No getting around it.

[gnuarm]

Many years ago a friend was about to send an affidavit using my fax when I asked what it was for.  She was responding unknowingly to scammers who were trying to fight her Paypal complaint that they hacked her account and transferred thousands of dollars into their accounts.  They had sent her an affidavit to return to Paypal to say she no longer disputed the charges and they should be released to the scammers which she did not read properly. 

So this is all on the scammers so far.  But I wanted to contact Paypal and have a criminal investigation initiated with the police.  There is always a way to catch then by following the money.  So I called Paypal and spoke with a lady in the XYZ department.  After listening to the situation she gave me another number to call.  I contacted the ABC department only to find they were not the right ones and sent me to the JKL department who referred me to the MNO department.  Then I was sent to the PDQ department only to recognize the voice of the lady at the XYZ department!!! 

I called her on the run-around and got her to take the full report.  However, I knew nothing would come of it.  Online fraud was a big thing and Paypal was not going file any police reports.  They wanted it to never be seen in any statistics! 

I've found both eBay and Paypal to be largely deficient in supporting the buyer.  However... the credit card companies are not.  So why bother with either of the customer non-support groups when you can just go straight to the credit card company and get it done? 

At one point Paypal had in their terms and conditions that you could not charge back to them.  The credit card companies put an end to that quickly enough. 

Don't even get me started with Aliexpress.  They are the worst and I don't even think about trying to get a refund from them.  Hell, there's no person to talk to and if you were to reach a person they just tell you to use the online forms which are worthless.

[Ed.Kloonk]

That is a very good point, regarding the credit card companies.

[MrMobodies]

98% of the times, sellers are super helpful.  E.g. just recently I bought a pack of 3 NOS vintage diodes.  One turned out to be defective.  Contacted seller with a picture showing my meter testing the dud diode compared to a good one.  He slipped another one in the post with no further ado.

You can get a long way if you begin by assuming that the seller is "OK and trying to do a job".

And there's some of them that can try to be sneaky and ban you after returning non described/faulty things:

I ordered a Dell battery for a raid controller in about 2018 advertised as tested and working. When it turned up and I plugged it in the controller wouldn't detect it. So I measured it and the voltage was just too low. So I contact the seller, I think I showed showed the meter reading and the seller refunded me which was great and explained they get so many of them and that one could have been missed. I asked if they can test and confirm a working one and I'll buy again. The seller replied that they can't guarantee it and warned me not to buy another it also might be unchecked.

Anyway a year after I wanted to ordered something going for a good price and I get a message something like "The seller isn't accepting any offers from you...". That's strange, did I buy something from this seller and they got upset that maybe forgot to leave them feedback, so I searched their name on email and turned out to be that Dell Raid battery listing.

Actually just checked and no longer there by that name but a search shows the same creditations under a different profile. It seems they have either changed the name to "sierra-indigo" or had another account and I am still banned from buying see pictures.

A neutral feedback about someone else who ended up with low batteries:
https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/sierra-indigo?filter=period:TWELVE_MONTHS,overall_rating:Netral

Put batteries in, immediately came up, warning batteries low
Set of 4 New Replacement Batteries for Barclays Bank PINsentry Card Reader LR44 (#193195351094)
Buyer: o***o (455) GBP 1.30    Past year
Reciprocal feedback- View feedback left by sierra-indigo for the member who left feedback for sierra-indigo

The seller did the right thing and refunded me but by banning me and I believe they may have things to hide.

See pictures.

[SilverSolder]

I know people that run eBay businesses.   Let's just say that buyers can also get quite "creative" with how they act...

Bottom line, scammers are scammers and they like the anonymity of the on-line world.

But the eBay protections work...


...speaking of which, I get to test it now!  I bought a Bluetooth keyboard described as "used" and it was delivered today.  Turns out it doesn't work on some of the letters, but only if SHIFT is pressed! ...   and this is AFTER I stupidly left positive feedback, complicating things further!

So, any bets on how that will turn out?   I will write the seller tomorrow and tell him the bad news.  Let's see how he plays it...

[gnuarm]

I know people that run eBay businesses.   Let's just say that buyers can also get quite "creative" with how they act...

Bottom line, scammers are scammers and they like the anonymity of the on-line world.

But the eBay protections work...


...speaking of which, I get to test it now!  I bought a Bluetooth keyboard described as "used" and it was delivered today.  Turns out it doesn't work on some of the letters, but only if SHIFT is pressed! ...   and this is AFTER I stupidly left positive feedback, complicating things further!

So, any bets on how that will turn out?   I will write the seller tomorrow and tell him the bad news.  Let's see how he plays it...

If the protections work, why would you be concerned? 

I never leave positive feedback because you only have 60 days to do so and that it is a one shot deal.  Once positive is left it can't be changed if the unit craps out.  Often I haven't received an item until 45 days have gone by. 

If it weren't for the credit card protections I would never use Ebay and the like.  Never. 

Why not write them now?  Ebay is a 24 hour deal and the sooner you report it, the better.

My real complaint with eBay is that they don't care about fraud.  I bought 18 gauge zip wire from a Maryland company and though it looked skinny, but didn't give it much thought.  Then I was using the entire 50 ft roll to charge a battery at 2 amps and noticed a significant voltage drop, so I measured it with micrometers.  It read 3 wire sizes below what it was marked, 21 ga.!  On top of that the insulation has the company's name and gauge embossed!!!  It's hard to imagine they would be getting undersized wire with the company name on it and not know. 

It was too late to do anything about that purchase, so I bought some 16 gauge later on.  Without realizing this was the same company!  (seems they are the low price seller of this type of wire on eBay)  So when it came I immediately checked and it was also 3 sizes too small, 19 ga instead of 16.  i filed a dispute with eBay and the guy wants me to mail it back on my dime!  So I used the credit card to get a refund. 

At this point I'm ready to target the guy.  I looked up the MD web site and if I wanted to get enough evidence and claim I'm a MD resident, I could get them to take action against the guy.  Thinking I might do that I bought 14 ga wire which measured as 17 ga and got a refund the same way.  Then  12 ga wire which was 15 ga with the same result.  The problem was I willing to put some time into it, but not willing to let the guy have my money so I could claim being defrauded. 

Oh well.  I now have enough free wire to trip over and I know where to get more if I need it.  I just have to calibrate the gauge appropriately.