Author Topic: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness  (Read 1984 times)

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Offline Halcyon

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[Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« on: April 20, 2018, 12:11:07 pm »
After watching a few of Ambuchannel 112's videos, something that seems consistent throughout is the attentiveness of other drivers and pedestrians on the road in the Netherlands. In certain parts of Australia, if you were the driver of an emergency vehicle (of any kind) you would generally need to slow down to a crawl, while holding your hand on your horn, because a moron driver in front of you doesn't know how to use their mirrors and just "switch off" when driving a car. Honestly, some people are completely inattentive when behind the wheel of a car and it's a pet hate of mine.

This is a perfect example on how it should be done. Well done to whatever you guys in the Netherlands are doing! Obviously driver education works.

 
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Online BillB

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2018, 12:44:24 pm »
Even with our wider roads, that kind of maneuvering and cooperation wouldn't be possible in the US for exactly the same reasons you describe plus the general apathy and incompetence that plague our drivers.  As a motorcyclist, I am acutely aware of this as I take my life in my hands when out among them every day.

And speaking of Netherlands ambulance channels (who knew this was so popular), Team Verkeer Den Haag who provides the motorcycle escorts to the Hague ambulances really show how it should be done!

   :-+
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2018, 12:48:58 pm »
Just imagine that you can be the next one needing an ambulance.... done!  :-+
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2018, 12:58:16 pm »
I also love that you guys use Mercedes, Volvo, BMW etc... for your emergency vehicles. In Australia, our Ambos are Mercedes Sprinters, which are very nice. But the majority of our Police cars are absolute rubbish. They are cheap, consumer cars with a few tweaks. In NSW they get replaced every 60,000 KM's (or thereabouts) because by that stage, they are falling apart and have absolutely had it.

On many occasions I've driven Mitsubishi Lancer's, Subaru Outback's and Ford Ranger's among others under emergency conditions and they are just embarrassingly slow, handle like shopping trolleys and it's a miracle you make it to the destination at all.
 

Offline wkb

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2018, 03:58:50 pm »
The Volvo's turned out to be too slow to match some of the bad guys that use stolen Audi RS as their getaway vehicle.

Meet the Audi A6 3.0TDI..

https://youtu.be/bHESOkPeMZs
 


Offline SeanB

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2018, 07:48:56 pm »
Here the one municipality got a few BMW 3 series vehicles that they used as interceptors. The local dealers took them, chipped them and deleted all speed limiters, so they could get to over 200kph. There are a few as well that used M3 BMW's as well, to try to catch the speeders who just rode away from the standard Toyota Hilux police vehicle. bikers get away, but then you have radio to call ahead and arrange a nice roadblock to stop them.

Of course, if you want a scary ride just use a minibus taxi, where all rules of the road are merely optional, and mere suggestions.
 

Online John B

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2018, 09:43:39 pm »
Even with our wider roads, that kind of maneuvering and cooperation wouldn't be possible in the US for exactly the same reasons you describe plus the general apathy and incompetence that plague our drivers.  As a motorcyclist, I am acutely aware of this as I take my life in my hands when out among them every day.

I think riding motorcycles from a young age is a great skill to learn. Having done both the basic training and advanced skills courses many years ago, I can say IME that the overall proficiency of motorcycle instructors is far above what you would expect from driving instructors.

Probably the 2 simplest and most effective skills that motorcycle instructors drill into you is 1) Look up 2) Look where you're going. (ie, if you're going around a corner "scan" where you WILL be, rather than looking in the direction that your bike is facing)

They sound comically simple, but it's amazing how many people fail on both counts. Have a look when you're walking around at other pedestrians. So many are now on their phones constantly, that they are almost looking directly downwards, and even the ones not on their phones tend to look only around ~3m in front of them.
 

Online Kjelt

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2018, 09:49:45 pm »
Well drivers in our country are usually not that great, on the highway they keep 6 metres distance between cars at 130km/hr because otherwise someone will get between and yes they will.
IME german drivers on the german highways are much better keeping safe distance.

And not to mention that in recent years some ambulance personell has been attacked while performing life safing actions on persons in distress.  :(
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2018, 10:22:22 pm »
I think riding motorcycles from a young age is a great skill to learn. Having done both the basic training and advanced skills courses many years ago, I can say IME that the overall proficiency of motorcycle instructors is far above what you would expect from driving instructors.

I think you're absolutely right. I've never learned to ride a motorbike (nor do I ever intend to, I want to live), but I agree with your comment. To become a driving instructor here is quite simple. You don't even need to learn to speak or read English proficiently and these are the types of people who are teaching our next generation of drivers in some areas. Bring on autonomous vehicles (for those who shouldn't hold a driving licence).
 

Online BillB

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 11:16:31 pm »
I think riding motorcycles from a young age is a great skill to learn. Having done both the basic training and advanced skills courses many years ago, I can say IME that the overall proficiency of motorcycle instructors is far above what you would expect from driving instructors.

I think you're absolutely right. I've never learned to ride a motorbike (nor do I ever intend to, I want to live), but I agree with your comment. To become a driving instructor here is quite simple. You don't even need to learn to speak or read English proficiently and these are the types of people who are teaching our next generation of drivers in some areas. Bring on autonomous vehicles (for those who shouldn't hold a driving licence).

(...I want to live)   :-DD

Yup, motorcycles are dangerous and do require a certain level of attentiveness if you want to stay alive.  In my area, driving while phone fondling is an epidemic, so I know that I'm living on borrowed time.

However, given the current state of autonomous vehicles, I'll take my chances with the inattentive humans.  At least the attention deficit usually makes them slow down or even stay stopped for long periods of time.       
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 12:26:22 am »
I've never learned to ride a motorbike (nor do I ever intend to, I want to live)
Same here.  I got put off when I was still in primary school.  A neighbour's daughter who was about 20 had a minor incident on a motorcycle and had one leg in plaster from hip to toe.  That was over 50 years ago when traffic was not as manic.  Made a strong impression, I'll tell you.


As for emergency vehicles and oblivious car drivers .....
It was only a couple of years ago when I was stopped at a set of traffic lights, second in line of the lane I was in when I heard the sound of a siren approaching.  Knowing the intersection very well and the slowness in the change of the volume of the siren, I soon came to expect the arrival of a fire engine from the fire station up the road to my right.  As it got closer, I noticed the light sequence and realised the fire engine should hit the intersection just as I would have the green light - and with the volume of the siren, everybody should just sit and wait as it made its way through the intersection.  Sure enough, in the next few seconds it came to pass exactly as I had envisaged.  All the traffic was stopped as happens during phase change, the fire engine came up on the wrong side of the road from the right and was visible - lights and siren and all.  Perfect timing for a quick and uncontested passage through the intersection.

You would think.

Just at that moment, the lights changed to green for me and the person in front - even with the fire engine having made its unmistakable presence felt - started off.  I could not believe it!  The fire engine baulked and this character continued on, completely oblivious.  I just sat there and let the fire engine through the intersection (as did everybody else) and turn in the direction I was going.  It took off down the road, accelerating as best it could with the recalcitrant driver in front.  I followed, but it pulled away from me and soon caught up with that vehicle.  I then heard several blasts from the air horns which was very clearly aimed at that same vehicle - as it did not pull over straight away.

I rang the fire station later that day and offered to be a witness to this, but the fireman said that this sort of thing happens so often that they just shrug it off.

I do wish I'd had a dash cam.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 06:58:50 am »
Just imagine that you can be the next one needing an ambulance.... done!  :-+

I always do this and will spot any flashing blue light in my mirrors long before I need to move out of the way so that I can take the best action. I also endeavour to work out where any siren is coming from when I hear it. The other day I had a driver get annoyed with me because i pulled to the side of the road, right after he finished being outraged he had an ambulance up his arse that could not get through as the road was now narrower...... The police actually put out an instructional video on what to do when you find an emergency vehicle behind you, they showed how amazingly so many people slow down, probably due to our culture of speeding. If your 5mph over the limit on a dual carriageway and you see a police steaming up the other side sirens going and not interested in you you still touch your breaks......
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Offline zzattack

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2018, 08:26:35 am »
Even with loud music and bright ambient light, I find emergency service vehicles very easy to notice from afar. Often long before anything appears in the rearview mirror the sirens are audible. Seems only logical to pay some extra attention and clear the way.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2018, 02:16:21 pm »
I've never learned to ride a motorbike (nor do I ever intend to, I want to live)
Same here.  I got put off when I was still in primary school.  A neighbour's daughter who was about 20 had a minor incident on a motorcycle and had one leg in plaster from hip to toe.  That was over 50 years ago when traffic was not as manic.  Made a strong impression, I'll tell you.
For driving a motorcycle you have to be French because only then you'll have a protective angel 24/7 ! The crap French motor cyclists get away with  :wtf:
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Offline hans

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2018, 05:08:29 pm »
Well drivers in our country are usually not that great, on the highway they keep 6 metres distance between cars at 130km/hr because otherwise someone will get between and yes they will.
IME german drivers on the german highways are much better keeping safe distance.

And not to mention that in recent years some ambulance personell has been attacked while performing life safing actions on persons in distress.  :(

I think most drivers are taught excellent skills (by education) and then develop very poor manners.

Certainly that 6 meter following distance is not taught at driving school. But at some point you do it, because people just squeeze (claim space) their car on the left lane when it's busy. It's literally bumper to bumper. Sometimes I need to take avoiding action because someone is basically cutting me off like that, but I think it was the result of not paying attention + a bad habit like this w.r.t. close lane changing maneuvers.

Nevertheless, I really appreciate these emergency vehicle channels too. It's nice to see their perspective and above all how calm they are when they are speeding up to 50km/h (the guideline for ambulances) everywhere, and crossing junctions in "alternative" ways. Of course they need to stay calm, as rushing and panic will only lead to more accidents.
As a young driver it did raise me more awareness about desired behavior when an emergency vehicle arrives, I think that education and respect is much needed (I only encountered an emergency once in my driving lessons a few years ago, and it was basically on the 2nd lesson where the instructor took care of it) :-+
 

Offline james_s

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2018, 05:24:55 pm »
I used to work with a guy who had a prosthetic leg due to somebody in a car running a stop sign and hit his motorcycle broadside. That largely cured me of wanting to ride a motorcycle, and then when I got rear ended by a semi on the freeway a while back that really sealed it. If there were not other cars on the road a bike looks like a fun way to get around.
 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2018, 02:24:32 am »
My eldest rides a motorcycle and is very aware of the other vehicles on the road.  Once he told me of an experience where he had positioned himself at the line at a set of traffic lights and when they turned green, he made some brisk acceleration up to the speed limit - no wheelies or anything like that, just getting clear of everyone else.

A short while later, he was pulled over by a police officer who had witnessed this and was asked if there was any reason for his express move.  He pointed to the traffic now passing and said it was to get away from all the idiots.  The police officer seemed to understand and let him go.  He hadn't actually broken any laws.


He takes his riding seriously and has always outfitted himself with proper gear.  Once a young car driver changed lanes unexpectedly and knocked him off his bike.  The ambos came and commented on the minor nature of his injuries (a bruised hip) being a direct result of wearing the gear that he had on.  You will never see him riding in T-shirt, shorts and thongs (jandals or flip-flops, depending where you come from).
 

Offline Simon

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2018, 06:41:58 pm »
If there were not other cars on the road a bike looks like a fun way to get around.

If there were not other cars around a bike would be unnecessary....... :)
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Offline james_s

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Re: [Off-topic] Netherlands Ambulance and driver attentiveness
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2018, 10:05:52 pm »
Heck if there were much sparser numbers of other cars around then a bike would be great. 20-30 years ago this area was nice and quiet, outside of rush hour the freeways were often wide open and the nice twisty back roads were almost always empty. Not anymore.
 


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