[Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf

[tom66]

Tesla market their battery @ 265miles in the US and 300 miles in Europe because of different testing standards which also apply to petrol cars. Real world mileage for most Tesla 85kWhr cars is at least 240 to 250 miles. Marketing is always boosting figures, fact of life.

[nctnico]

Tesla market their battery @ 265miles in the US and 300 miles in Europe because of different testing standards which also apply to petrol cars. Real world mileage for most Tesla 85kWhr cars is at least 240 to 250 miles. Marketing is always boosting figures, fact of life.

Well that is totally different from what you stated before. Before you stated EV makers where pessimistic about their range numbers and now you say they all boost their numbers.

[elgonzo]

That video was nonsense.

It's Top Gear, it's British humor. But in all the silly game they did there was a message embedded within. And no, the message was not about BMW or Prius. And yes, if you watched until the end, you would have heard the message, clearly articulated by one of the show hosts... 

[elgonzo]

BTW I read an interesting article today. At Mercedes (Daimler) they are quite happy they got of the EV train early after some concepts cars. The only electric cars they make at Daimler are sold under the brand called 'Smart' which are two-seat micro cars. These have a low top speed so they are not very suitable to drive on the highway.

Yep, the Smart is a typical city car, and it was a smart move from Daimler/Smart to offer an e-version.

Once, i drove a petrol Smart (TwoFour, don't know which engine, was a rental car) on a highway from Munich to Frankfurt. The little bugger made 160 km/h flat out. I am 2m tall and i wouldn't call the car uncomfortable. So i would say at least the petrol version(s) are suitable for highway. But since the car is somewhat sensitive for crosswinds at these speeds due to its small wheel base, doing this would not be recommendable for the faint-hearted 

[elgonzo]

My original request was that you point to some evidence of the advertised range of a modern car, petrol or electric, is not possible in real life. At best the What Car article linked to suggests that the MPG tests the EU requires are not very realistic for certain types of car, at least in their opinion. [snip]

It is a common criticism that fuel consumption measurements gained according to New European Driving Cycle (NEDC) cannot be achieved in real-world conditions.
In 2012, the ICCT (International Council on Clean Transportation) published an assessment, validating the criticism. PDF here.

But this criticism is specific to European regulation. It does not necessarily apply to other regions in the world with other regulations about how to determine fuel consumption/efficiency.

EDIT: Copy'n'pasted the wrong link. Fixed now.

[nctnico]

Well that is totally different from what you stated before. Before you stated EV makers where pessimistic about their range numbers and now you say they all boost their numbers.

You are replying to a different person. Try to keep up.

My original request was that you point to some evidence of the advertised range of a modern car, petrol or electric, is not possible in real life. At best the What Car article linked to suggests that the MPG tests the EU requires are not very realistic for certain types of car, at least in their opinion. It didn't say exactly what their "realistic" test was. In any case, the 300 miles number given by Tesla (used in US marketing as well) is possible in their car, with energy left to spare.

Again, show me some evidence that under normal driving conditions (i.e. not Brodering to rig the test) the advertised range is impossible to achieve.

The EPA numbers already do that. The EPA uses a test which represents normal driving conditions so there you go.
Ofcourse you can get excellent mileage by not going faster than 80km/h and only drive when the wind is blowing along the driving direction but such conditions are not normal driving conditions. Normal driving conditions are driving at the speed limit, use the heater when its cold, use the airco when its warm, play the radio, have the lights on so people can see you, etc.

[PA3BNX]

Hello All

Should it be an electric car or more something like a wood car


http://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html
http://www.holzgas.ch/501/index.html
https://youtu.be/eUXoQozV3vk

[nctnico]

Why? Nowadays you can buy a station wagon which runs 18 kilometers on 1 litre of petrol (actual number people achieve in the real world!). The 3 cylinder 1.0 litre engine with turbo in those cars is much more efficient. I have an earlier model of that car with a 1.6 litre engine and I get around 12 kilometers out of 1 litre of petrol. That is an increase in fuel economy around 50% (and the newer model is a bit heavier too). Imagine how far you could go if you put a wood gas generator on such a car instead of an old gas guzzler.

[Mechanical Menace]

Imagine how far you could go if you put a wood gas generator on such a car instead of an old gas guzzler.

Nowhere near as far, the enrgy density of wood isn't even half that of petroleum spirit. It's also nowhere near as clean, so even if it can be carbon neutral it'd be healthier to take up smoking than go anywhere near a road full of cars running on wood gas.

[johansen]

Imagine how far you could go if you put a wood gas generator on such a car instead of an old gas guzzler.

Nowhere near as far, the enrgy density of wood isn't even half that of petroleum spirit. It's also nowhere near as clean, so even if it can be carbon neutral it'd be healthier to take up smoking than go anywhere near a road full of cars running on wood gas.

how could burning wood produce more carbon than the tree pulled out of the atmosphere?

oh and btw.. when plants decay and sequester carbon into the ground (allegedly this happens) how much more global warming does the methane produce compared to the co2 removed from the air?

 

[tom66]

Carbon neutral, but burning a tree that took 50-100 years to grow and releasing that CO2 in a matter of minutes / hours is going to increase local pollution which affects humans...

[Mechanical Menace]

Imagine how far you could go if you put a wood gas generator on such a car instead of an old gas guzzler.

Nowhere near as far, the enrgy density of wood isn't even half that of petroleum spirit. It's also nowhere near as clean, so even if it can be carbon neutral it'd be healthier to take up smoking than go anywhere near a road full of cars running on wood gas.

how could burning wood produce more carbon than the tree pulled out of the atmosphere?

I didn't say it did

EDIT: There's more released when you burn wood than CO2 and water, a lot of it is nastier than anything a diesel puts out.

[mtdoc]

Wood gasification to power vehicles has been around for decades and saw widespread use during the gas rationing of WW2.

There's a community of DIY wood gasifiers and a company selling kits for wood gas home generators - not cheap though.

What this has to do with EVs I have no idea