Author Topic: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf  (Read 59494 times)

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Offline Stonent

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2013, 11:15:54 pm »
How about CNG plus battery? Does anyone offer that?  Sounds like a good compromise if you need more range but still want clean.
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2013, 11:19:12 pm »
If you consider the time it takes to recharge the thing, marketing was not just wanking but also having a good laugh at the gullible customers...

There ARE customers for whom the usage scenario of a fully electric car works.
Just because your usage scenario doesn't fit, don't assume that all other people's don't either.

Nope, that's not what i said. Look at the Nissan Leaf web site. They do NOT advertise the Leaf for specific usage scenarios, but as an all-purpose vehicle... I did not try to argue whether an e-car is useful or not. My opinion is that e-cars are just not ready for mass-market. I do not want to imply that a current-gen e-car does not have a use.
 

Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2013, 11:31:11 pm »
How about CNG plus battery? Does anyone offer that?  Sounds like a good compromise if you need more range but still want clean.
Don't know. I haven't seen many private passenger cars using CNG/LPG, mostly public transportation and utility vehicles.
Regarding public transportation, many cities have electric buses or trolleybuses (old russian trolleys FTW!).

Indian TATA builds CNG-hybrid buses, but i don't know whether they export them.
 

Offline johansen

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2013, 11:37:11 pm »
Whoa, they (nissan) didnt tell me about leasing the battery ! If that is true then it is a complete failure.

I don't get it. 6700 liion cells at 1$ a piece plus casing and electronics yields a 10.000 battery. Add a standard compact car chassis and standard outfit (not luxury like the tesla) and a drivetrain. You should be able to mass produce for 20 to25 k and sell at 30 to 35k$. Note that we dont need a super performance battery like for the tesla. We are not building a car that does 0 to 60 in 4 seconds.


if you can find a 2.5 amp hour lithium ion cell for 1$ let me know.

seems to me the market price for high quality cells is 5-6$ each.

6700 cells at 25 amps times 3.6 volts is 600KW, or about 800HP
and you don't even need high performance cells to do that.

C-1 rate is 60KW or 80HP. more than enough for a 4000 pound car.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2013, 11:55:26 pm »
It's about the economics. My daily driving is about 25 miles, so an electric car would work fine for that. However, about once a week I do a 100+ mile trip. That would be out of range.
The result is that an electric car would not be a replacement car

No, you just aren't considering the right type of electric car. Buy a Volt in that case, it is perfect your your driving scenario, and a huge number of other people.
The problem is that a Chevrolet/Opel/Vauxhall/Holden Volt isn't very economic to drive on fuel. And if you really want to go green with an EV you need to source real green electricity as well (not electricity which is made green by buying CO2 certificates). Otherwise an EV produces just as much CO2 as an economic car on fuel. Over here they are going to close quite a few coal and gas based power plants because there is a lot of solar and wind energy coming from Germany. That would be nice one would think but a quick study shows the electricity companies will just sell their CO2 certificates so the net reduction for the CO2 emission is zero.

Interestingly there is a silent but steady increase in the availability of bio-fuels and many newer cars can run on both fossil fuel and bio-fuel. In the US POET-DSM is about to start mass producing bio-fuel from agricultural leftovers so the bio-fuel doesn't take any extra land or reduces food production. The biggest advantage of bio fuels is that existing technology and infrastructure can be used to keep going without needing expensive dual-engine solutions. And if you happen to go somewhere where there is no bio-fuel you can keep going on good old fossil fuel.

Regarding the range of an EV: most need about 225Wh per km according to the practical tests performed by the EPA. Wear of the battery usually isn't a big concern because it gets charged to about 85% and discharged to 15%. Together with a battery cooling/heating system a battery in a hybrid or EV can last very long. The Nissan Leaf is an exception though. It doesn't have a battery cooling system so in hot places the batteries die rather quick.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 12:19:49 am by nctnico »
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Offline free_electron

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2013, 12:24:00 am »
FE. Ok.. So. I live here in an Jose and want to go for a little trip to Carmel. About 75 mile one way. You mean i can't get home ? Can i even get there as it's uphill over the santa cruz mountains ?

Well, the conversation ends right there because you are looking at a fully electric car to replace a car that has an entirely different usage scenario.
In that case by a Holden Volt.
Or get a Tesla S that has up to 500km range.
Ok, problem is the tesla is a luxury car and thus expensive.
My idea is : take the battery and drive train from a tesla and put it in a car like a chevrolet volt. Strip the leather alcantara luxury interior, strip the 17 inch tablet and hi resulation lcd display for instrument cluster, strip the 12 speaker dolby surround soundsystem
 . Use traditional cloth seats and regular dashboard .
I think you'd be able to make the car for less than half the cost of the tesla. Even if the battery pack and drive train cost 20.000 dollar. You should be able to take a Kia or a Nissan that cost 18000 with petrol engine and swap it. You'd end up with a 35k$ car that has 500km range.
Base platform : economy car equipped with 20k$ battery= no range problem and still affordable.

Yet nobody does it. They dick around with 70 mile range cars... That still cost 35000$. Why ?

In case of the nissan the thing that peeved me is that they had the gall to tell me: use your other car , assuming i'd have two cars (doubling my cost since i need to buy two cars , one of which is needed to overcome their shortcomings) or rent a petrol one.

What ? You first do all the feel good ,green , don't need petrol hype marketing song and dance giving me a nice shiny green balloon and then you drop that bit of info ? 

You just popped the shiny green balloon and it turned out to be filled with acrid petrol exhaust...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 12:32:08 am by free_electron »
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2013, 12:25:20 am »
And if you really want to go green with an EV you need to source real green electricity as well (not electricity which is made green by buying CO2 certificates). Otherwise an EV produces just as much CO2 as an economic car on fuel.

Neither CE trading certificates nor RECs can color your product in any way, unless you plaster the certificates all over your product :)
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2013, 12:33:23 am »
Ok, problem is the tesla is a luxury car and thus expensive.
My idea is : take the battery and drive train from a tesla and put it in a car like a chevrolet volt. Strip the leather alcantara luxury interior, strip the 17 inch tablet and hi resulation lcd display for instrument cluster, strip the 12 speaker dolby surround soundsystem
 . Use traditional cloth seats and regular dashboard .

Thank you! :clap: Why is it that every mechanically cool car has to be loaded with a crapton of extra whiz-bang bells and whistles and luxury shit? I don't want that! I wouldn't buy a car like that if I could afford it without blinking an eye. It's distracting, gaudy, garish and annoying. If I wanted a computer I'd buy one, if I wanted a stereo system I'd buy one, if I wanted a luxurious piece of furniture I'd buy one. I'm trying to buy a car. Stop covering every square inch of the car in LCDs! Damn marketingfolk won't let us normal people have cool cars :rant:
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2013, 12:35:16 am »
Ok, problem is the tesla is a luxury car and thus expensive.
My idea is : take the battery and drive train from a tesla and put it in a car like a chevrolet volt. Strip the leather alcantara luxury interior, strip the 17 inch tablet and hi resulation lcd display for instrument cluster, strip the 12 speaker dolby surround soundsystem
 . Use traditional cloth seats and regular dashboard .
I think you'd be able to make the car for less than half the cost of the tesla. Even if the battery pack and drive train cost 20.000 dollar. You should be able to take a Kia or a Nissan that cost 18000 with petrol engine and swap it. You'd end up with a 35k$ car that has 500km range.

Yet nobody does it. They dick around with 70 mile range cars... That still cost 35000$. Why ?

There were times when CD-ROM burners where horribly expensive, failed regularly to burn discs and had horrible caddy mechanics. Why?
There were times only rich people could effort the plasma TVs, which suffered from burn-in worse than a TV. Why?
There were times only rich people could take a journey in an aeroplane, which were slow propeller machines? Why?

Do you see "the pattern"?
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2013, 12:43:23 am »
They dick around with 70 mile range cars... That still cost 35000$. Why ?

Because that is where the curves on the charts from engineering, beancounting, and from marketing meet. More precisely, did met five to ten years ago. Because five years, even more typical ten years, is what it takes a normal car company to bring a new model to the market.

The second reason is that car companies are hampered by their tradition to introduce innovations at the high end (luxury, super sport) end of their offerings. That has the advantage that cost of development, as well as manufacturing, is not such a big issue, compared to the mass market. And since the luxury segment is smaller they have more control over the introduction.

With e-cars manufacturers either continue to do that, e.g. Mercedes has a high-end drive train and battery system with KERS and whatnot in an 250 km/h top speed electric super sportscar. Or they struggle to build innovative stuff right into mass market products to a price.
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2013, 12:45:02 am »
Thank you! :clap: Why is it that every mechanically cool car has to be loaded with a crapton of extra whiz-bang bells and whistles and luxury shit? I don't want that! I wouldn't buy a car like that if I could afford it without blinking an eye. It's distracting, gaudy, garish and annoying. If I wanted a computer I'd buy one, if I wanted a stereo system I'd buy one, if I wanted a luxurious piece of furniture I'd buy one. I'm trying to buy a car. Stop covering every square inch of the car in LCDs! Damn marketingfolk won't let us normal people have cool cars :rant:

I would think the Ariel Atom would fit your desires.
The second best thing is it does not have an AC, neither a stereo, and you don't need to sit on the remains of dead cattle.
But the very best thing about the Atom is that it makes your pants wet, either because it is so exciting or because the wheels will kick water all over you on a rainy day  ;D
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2013, 12:48:26 am »
Yes i see the pattern. The dinosaur car makers want money for exclusivity.

I looked at the nissan leaf. If you forget that it is electric it is a nice day to day usage car with a base equipment that has nothing wrong. Leather seats, nav system , rear view camera. Airco ditioning.
Price :35000$.
If they had beefed up that battery , taking it from 75 mile to 200 mile, and made the price tag 42000$ I'd buy one.
Even the base model (no leather and drop some other fancy stuff) is 28800. Add 10000$ more batteries and you end up at 38000$.

Why don't they do that ? It's a no brainer. Costs the price of a regular car and its full electric with no range anxiety.

I really think it is because they dont want to. They lose income because there is no or very little maintenance , the dealers will complain and big oil will complain. Im not a conspiracy guy but this seriously smells like one...

Electric cars are being held back on purpose. The technology exists. Tesla has proven it. The classic carmakers are just stodgy dinosaurs that don't know , or are not willing to, adapt to it.

Bored@work has a point too. Tradition.
This years model Bmw 3 series differs from last years model bmw 3 series because it has 2 more cupholders. Car makers make new models incremental and the delta is very small.
For them having to take a huge step is unthinkable. Car makers are like apple with their iphones. Incremental little differences. Phone 1 to 2 add camera. 2 to 3 add this trinket. And so on. They have fallinto the wash,rince, rerun cycle.

True apple had their big moment with phone 1. That was a game changer.

For cars, the companies are still stuck in the incremental changes. Only tesla has done the game changing moment. The built a full electric that has the range, has the performance one expects. They broke the technological barrier. The whole car industry said lithium ion was ten years away. Tesla proved them wrong. They said electrics would drive lake a purple haired grandma, yet the tesla leaves M5 and porshes behind.. The drawback : they had to make it luxury to offset the development cost since they had no history.

Big dinosaur said i am so big and lumbering along and ive done it for so long It is ok.
Then came the meteor and they went extinct.
I'm hoping tesla is that meteor.

There is no technological barrier anymore. It's just the lumbering dinosaur carmakers that are to slow adapting. Time for them to go extinct.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 01:02:19 am by free_electron »
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Offline IanB

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2013, 12:50:29 am »
There were times when CD-ROM burners where horribly expensive, failed regularly to burn discs and had horrible caddy mechanics. Why?
There were times only rich people could effort the plasma TVs, which suffered from burn-in worse than a TV. Why?
There were times only rich people could take a journey in an aeroplane, which were slow propeller machines? Why?

Do you see "the pattern"?

No, I'm afraid I don't see it.

Before CD-ROM burners there were no external storage formats with the same mix of low media cost, rapid read access and compact size. The market paid for something that had no competition.

Before plasma TVs, there were no large picture, bright, high contrast, flat TVs that could hang on a wall. The market paid for something that had no competition.

Before propeller driven airplanes, there were no fast, comfortable flying machines that could cover long distances ten times faster than a boat. The market paid for something that had no competition.

Now, before all electric vehicles came along, there were no fast, comfortable, convenient, economical road vehicles that could carry four people in comfort over distances of hundreds of miles. But, oh, wait, there were...

See the problem?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 12:54:00 am by IanB »
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2013, 01:02:05 am »
The second reason is that car companies are hampered by their tradition to introduce innovations at the high end (luxury, super sport) end of their offerings. That has the advantage that cost of development, as well as manufacturing, is not such a big issue, compared to the mass market. And since the luxury segment is smaller they have more control over the introduction.

Don't forget to take branding into account. Luxury cars/products often function as branding "vehicle".
If you want to introduce new innovations to the market, you want a maximum brand impact. Also luxury cars are a feasible platform for introducing new whizz-bang, because of having high visibility in the market. Add to this a low to moderate cost and ramp-up time for production due to low volume as you mentioned (hell, if manufacturing isn't ready you could hand-file the 1000 pieces you need ;) ), and it becomes a no-brainer to introduce new things in the luxury segment.

That doesn't mean the pass-products doesn't get innovations first. It's just that these kind of innovations are either incremental or deemed to not being essential for branding.

Imagine, a situation where the Audi A3 would have been given a spanking new awesome gadget or fancy head lights way before the Audi A8 or Audi R8. This would make the A8 and R8 immediately look outdated -- absolutely not good for the brand identity...
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2013, 01:12:28 am »

Imagine, a situation where the Audi A3 would have been given a spanking new awesome gadget or fancy head lights way before the Audi A8 or Audi R8. This would make the A8 and R8 immediately look outdated -- absolutely not good for the brand identity...

This, i fear, is one of the key reasons.

Imagine taking the A3, dropping in an 15000$ electric system. All the A6 and A8 owners would be fuming ! That electric A3 still only costs half the price of theirs , consumes 1/3 the money of theirs and at the traffic light they can't even keep up with that little 'electric toy'. They would fail miserably in the dick measuring contest...

Virtually overnight the sales of the hi ends could collapse.
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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2013, 01:13:02 am »
Bored@work has a point too. Tradition.
This years model Bmw 3 series differs from last years model bmw 3 series because it has 2 more cupholders. Car makers make new models incremental and the delta is very small.

One reason is the paperwork. A new car, introduced on multiple continents, with lots and lots of new components, needs heaps of type approvals and dealing with authorities.

BTW, BMW is a typical case when it comes to e-cars. They recognized they can't bring one to market with their current company structure, so they founded a separate company for that. Of course they did that also to minimize the impact on the main business should the e-car thing fail. But still a good idea. Then they ruined it by running the separate company just like a branch of their traditional company. The result is the BMW i3  :palm: Developed it bit faster than usual, but low-end, where BMW usually doesn't play, for $42 000  |O
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2013, 01:21:30 am »
Before CD-ROM burners there were no external storage formats with the same mix of low media cost, rapid read access and compact size. The market paid for something that had no competition.

There, you see the pattern. The market would not pay for something that has an established competition that is as good.
Now, how would a current-gen e-car today compete with a mass-market product like a petrol car that simply can rely on a global market with a standardized infrastructure of gas stations anywhere. No, there is not really a competition (yet!). If you want to compete on the basis of a budget mass-manufactured product, you need mass production, right?
No doubt mass production will eventually happen (perhaps not Tesla, who knows...), which will not only allow prices to drop but which will then start the competition with (and hopefully overtake of) mass-produced petrol cars.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 01:24:33 am by elgonzo »
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2013, 01:22:58 am »

One reason is the paperwork. A new car, introduced on multiple continents, with lots and lots of new components, needs heaps of type approvals and dealing with authorities.
It can't be that hard if a bunch of propellerheads with zero car experience can pull it off. The Model S sells worldwide....


Quote
should the e-car thing fail.
We need an injection of Yoda here. "There is no try, only do"

If tomorrow all car makers decided : we will from now on only design and develop electrics, it would not fail . There would be no other option.

They are too scared or too stodgy to make radical changes. Lets add two cupholders and see if people go for it... If not next years model will remove the extra two cupholders and well try the vanity light for the passenger seat.. See if people go after that one.
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2013, 01:32:22 am »
One reason is the paperwork. A new car, introduced on multiple continents, with lots and lots of new components, needs heaps of type approvals and dealing with authorities.

Don't forget company internal proceedings. BMW Asia says that Chinese customers want golden cup holders. BMW HQ in Germany says that it is stupid and does not fit the brand. BMW America says "Dammit! Just give us German cars". BMW South America says "But what about VW/Audi?", etc..., etc... That is just an eternal slow-turning treadmill... Tesla doesn't "suffer" from regional headquarters :)

BTW, BMW is a typical case when it comes to e-cars. They recognized they can't bring one to market with their current company structure, so they founded a separate company for that. Of course they did that also to minimize the impact on the main business should the e-car thing fail. But still a good idea. Then they ruined it by running the separate company just like a branch of their traditional company. The result is the BMW i3  :palm: Developed it bit faster than usual, but low-end, where BMW usually doesn't play, for $42 000  |O

BMW is actually a fine example of a brand which doesn't really harmonize nicely with current-gen e-cars. Think about what the brand "BMW" is evoking, and try to apply this to current-gen e-cars. Yes, they could built something like a Tesla roadster, which sort of fits the sportive image. But the product would be imperfect nonetheless...
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 01:38:07 am by elgonzo »
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2013, 01:58:26 am »
BMW is actually a fine example of a brand which doesn't really harmonize nicely with current-gen e-cars. Think about what the brand "BMW" is evoking, and try to apply this to current-gen e-cars. Yes, they could built something like a Tesla roadster, which sort of fits the sportive image. But the product would be imperfect nonetheless...

They have a sports e-car on the drawing board for some time, the i8. But they chickened out and early on decided this to be a hybrid. And they chickened out a second time and decided to develop the i3 first, to test the waters. Just a few days ago, they finally premiered the i8 production version. $135000. 35 km range on e-power :palm:
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #45 on: September 29, 2013, 02:26:28 am »
BMW is actually a fine example of a brand which doesn't really harmonize nicely with current-gen e-cars. Think about what the brand "BMW" is evoking, and try to apply this to current-gen e-cars. Yes, they could built something like a Tesla roadster, which sort of fits the sportive image. But the product would be imperfect nonetheless...

They have a sports e-car on the drawing board for some time, the i8. But they chickened out and early on decided this to be a hybrid. And they chickened out a second time and decided to develop the i3 first, to test the waters. Just a few days ago, they finally premiered the i8 production version. $135000. 35 km range on e-power :palm:

i8 actually fits the BMW brand. Whether the car makes sense otherwise, well, uh...  :-//
Imagine a current-gen electric BMW on a German Autobahn going not faster than 100 km/h, being a roadblock to anybody else driving petrol Mercs, Audis, VW, or any other german or non-german brand. It wouldn't take long for BMW-related jokes to appear... "What a biummer!"

Just to make it abundantly clear: I am not saying that e-cars are pointless. But a big part of the car industry sells cars via the magic force of branding, not by the utility value of their individual vehicles. And any car company that has "enjoy the ride" as part of their branding strategy has a problem with fitting current e-cars to their brand(s) (or vice versa). Arguments about usability or ratio are minor ones in that reality.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #46 on: September 29, 2013, 02:30:20 am »
Now that i've had some time to 'cool down' and think over the conversation i had i guess this is what got my feathers ruffled:

If the nissan guy had answered, when i asked the question about going to carmel and back: well you can't really do that with this car. See this is designed to be a short commuter type car. It does not fit your type of car usage. It's not an all ound every day car. Most people buy it as a second car for work commuting.
I would have said 'ah, ok . That's not what i 'm looking for. Thank you for you honesty. And simply walked away.

Along the lines of 'these aren't the droids i'm looking for...

Yet the guy had the gall saying there was nothing wrong with his car, it was me and i should get or rent a second petrolcar. This is the droid you are looking for but you also need to buy a deathstar to support it. And insisting his car was the perfect product.

Reality check please guys...
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #47 on: September 29, 2013, 02:58:48 am »
Now that i've had some time to 'cool down' and think over the conversation i had i guess this is what got my feathers ruffled:

If the nissan guy had answered, when i asked the question about going to carmel and back: well you can't really do that with this car. See this is designed to be a short commuter type car. It does not fit your type of car usage. It's not an all ound every day car. Most people buy it as a second car for work commuting.
I would have said 'ah, ok . That's not what i 'm looking for. Thank you for you honesty. And simply walked away.

Along the lines of 'these aren't the droids i'm looking for...

Yet the guy had the gall saying there was nothing wrong with his car, it was me and i should get or rent a second petrolcar. This is the droid you are looking for but you also need to buy a deathstar to support it. And insisting his car was the perfect product.

Reality check please guys...

Yes, that is exactly what i tried to say and where Dave misunderstood me. And looking at the Leaf web site, i don't think it is just that single poor Nissan guy who struggles to bring the right message across. (Now i could point at myself and blame me for the same reason. Fortunately, i don't work in marketing ;) )
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #48 on: September 29, 2013, 03:01:40 am »
I'll just wait for Mr Fusion.
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Offline IanB

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Re: [Rant] Electric cars, in particular Nissan Leaf
« Reply #49 on: September 29, 2013, 03:41:55 am »
Before CD-ROM burners there were no external storage formats with the same mix of low media cost, rapid read access and compact size. The market paid for something that had no competition.

There, you see the pattern. The market would not pay for something that has an established competition that is as good.

I don't think you are getting it. The market will pay to solve a problem that is not yet solved.

But that is not the case here. The problem of personal road transport is solved.

What can you do with an electric car that you cannot already do with a conventional car?

Is it faster? Irrelevant, there are speed limits.

Is it cheaper to buy? Electric cars today are twice the price of comparable conventional cars. No advantage there.

Does it have a longer range? Demonstrably not.

Is it quieter? Sure, but current cars are quiet enough. If cars are too quiet people don't hear them coming, and anyway surface road noise is the biggest contributor to traffic noise in the environment.

Does it pollute less? Yes, but catalytic converters have essentially solved that problem already.

Does it have a lower running cost? Not if you take the battery renewal cost into account.

So really, what is the point of an electric car? There is no market for them except among people who want to make a personal statement or who want to experiment with something novel. And that's a very small niche.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 


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