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| [rant]why do english/chinese companies don't give a damn about other languages.. |
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| coppice:
--- Quote from: blueskull on March 28, 2020, 11:24:27 pm --- --- Quote from: Cerebus on March 28, 2020, 04:12:39 pm ---I can sympathise with that. Did the same thing for my first ever (business) trip to the Netherlands, had the same response. To be fair to the Dutch a non-native speaker is obvious from a 100 miles off and I have literally never met a native Dutch speaker who didn't also speak good English. Had, and still have, the opposite experience in Germany, there folks are quite happy to let you have a go and will put up with your terrible German even though many people could switch to English from the get-go. I get into trouble there as I learned what little German I do know in Germany from native German speakers so my accent is 100 times better than my comprehension, vocabulary or ability to string together much more than stock phrases. People hear me and think I can actually speak German properly, launch into a "mile a minute" explanation of, say, directions and get an "Entschuldigung! Ich bin ein Ausländer. Noch einmal, bitte langsam." (Sorry! I'm a foreigner. Once again please, slowly) in response - at least I sound properly polite and that seems to go a long way in Germany. --- End quote --- Same story for me. When I visited Japan numerous times before, I always start with talking to people in Japanese, gave up, and resort to English. I can comprehend what they said, but I can't organize my words as fast. And no, contrary to popular belief, English skill of Japanese is not all that bad. They have bad accent, they may have problems speaking English, but most of the young ones understand English perfectly fine. Can't say the same for the Koreans. When I visited Seoul, I found most people couldn't understand my English. Some of them include white collar office workers, school kids (middle to high school), and partying college students. I found more people understanding Chinese and Japanese there than English, especially on business streets and in shopping malls where you'd expect tourists. --- End quote --- These days you can get by fairly well in Japan using Mandarin. The last time I went to Japan my family used Mandarin in a few places, and English in others. |
| GlennSprigg:
--- Quote from: HobGoblyn on March 28, 2020, 02:33:59 pm ---I made the effort to learn a bit of Danish before I went for a 5 day holiday to Copenhagen a few years ago. Was a complete waste of time, even if I tried to speak to people in Danish, they replied in English (must have looked like a tourist) I sympathise with the OP, but a good proportion of things I buy, don't seem to translate into English properly either. --- End quote --- I too have always tried to at least learn the 'basics' of other languages when speaking to 'foreigners'. However, as you indicate, due to inflection, pronunciation and localized idiosyncrasies, it generally comes off poorly! and one stands out as an outsider! Then again, I've generally found that a LOT of them actually appreciate you TRYING!, even if stirring you in a totally friendly way. I had quite a few 'interesting' debates with 'tooki' in the past too, as per others observations about his 'correctness' (In fun! :D) To me, the biggest problem in hearing/speaking in other languages, including others speaking 'English', is the EMPHASIS on Syllables!! Some don't really matter... like 'ALtimeter' or 'alTIMeter, but others do! If someone speaking English said... 'capaCITor' instead of 'capACItor' it would not make sense to us. Talking SPEED is also an obvious problem. (Of course you get more used to it!). If an Aussie quickly said to you, (phonetically)... "whatchadointomora", it is not obvious to a foreigner as slowly meaning... "what-are-you-doing-tomorrow" 8) All that aside though, that doesn't explain how a lot of Americans pronounce/use many words! The worst being, in the elect field, being 'SODDer' as opposed to 'SOLder'? (Holder, colder, folder, bolder etc etc). Who in their past decided that there is a silent 'L' there???? This is an English word. Not their own! ;D 'Hood'/'Trunk' instead of 'Bonnet/Boot' is ok, but not many others. Someone there also decided once that the car is called a 'NEEsaan', instead of a 'NISSan', even when the Japanese inventors call it by the correct name. ::) I always JOKE! about the first hillbilly seeing the sign... "Yosemite", who tried to pronounce it as 'Yo-SEM-i-tee' instead of 'YOsemite' like 'VEGemite' or 'DYNamite' (Only stirring there.... that's YOUR word! :-+) |
| Cerebus:
--- Quote from: GlennSprigg on March 29, 2020, 02:17:04 pm ---If someone speaking English said... 'capaCITor' instead of 'capACItor' it would not make sense to us. --- End quote --- The problem can often be that people are working from written English and, just looking at the word, can't see the syllable boundaries, just as in your example. I was trying to read and decipher one of those giant German compound words recently. I just couldn't get it because my (English) eye was trying to put the word boundaries in the wrong places and coming up with a different string of actual German words - had to find a real German to get to the bottom of it. --- Quote from: GlennSprigg on March 29, 2020, 02:17:04 pm ---I always JOKE! about the first hillbilly seeing the sign... "Yosemite", who tried to pronounce it as 'Yo-SEM-i-tee' instead of 'YOsemite' like 'VEGemite' or 'DYNamite' (Only stirring there.... that's YOUR word! :-+) --- End quote --- Except it isn't. Yosemite is the Miwok people's word for "killer", the name of the tribe who lived there before the colonists kicked them out. What's the betting that we're still actually pronouncing is it wrong? (General rule for US place names: if it isn't the name of a town in the colonist's home country (London, Birmingham, Amsterdam), or a simple description in the colonist's language (Baton Rouge, Springfield) then it's probably from an indigenous language.) |
| GlennSprigg:
--- Quote from: Cerebus on March 29, 2020, 02:33:49 pm --- --- Quote from: GlennSprigg on March 29, 2020, 02:17:04 pm ---If someone speaking English said... 'capaCITor' instead of 'capACItor' it would not make sense to us. --- End quote --- The problem can often be that people are working from written English and, just looking at the word, can't see the syllable boundaries, just as in your example. I was trying to read and decipher one of those giant German compound words recently. I just couldn't get it because my (English) eye was trying to put the word boundaries in the wrong places and coming up with a different string of actual German words - had to find a real German to get to the bottom of it. --- Quote from: GlennSprigg on March 29, 2020, 02:17:04 pm ---I always JOKE! about the first hillbilly seeing the sign... "Yosemite", who tried to pronounce it as 'Yo-SEM-i-tee' instead of 'YOsemite' like 'VEGemite' or 'DYNamite' (Only stirring there.... that's YOUR word! :-+) --- End quote --- Except it isn't. Yosemite is the Miwok people's word for "killer", the name of the tribe who lived there before the colonists kicked them out. What's the betting that we're still actually pronouncing is it wrong? (General rule for US place names: if it isn't the name of a town in the colonist's home country (London, Birmingham, Amsterdam), or a simple description in the colonist's language (Baton Rouge, Springfield) then it's probably from an indigenous language.) --- End quote --- Thank you for your reply 'Cerebus'. Yes you are right! German is my '2nd' language, and I still struggle with it! As you said, they have 'words/phrases' that are joined together, and is often hard to find the 'boundaries' within. This seems to happen as their 'old' German is very 'descriptive', in place of a specialized 'word. For example... a "quecksilberschalter" is put together from 'quecksilber' translated from "Quick Silver", (rapid movement on a table top!!), and 'shalter' meaning switch. In other words, a Mercury Tilt Switch!. Or 'Überstromrelais' meaning "Over Current Relay". Their descriptive terms get joined together to make a 'single' word. And yes, (I was joking about the 'yosemite' thing). Here in Australia, a hell of a lot of our 'words' have indigenous origins too!! |
| GlennSprigg:
Just for fun, Cerebus, the longest current 'word' in German is... "Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft", meaning... "Association for Subordinate Officials of the Head Office Management of the Danube Steamboat Electrical Services" Clear as mud!! :-+ |
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