Author Topic: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design  (Read 14859 times)

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Offline james_s

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #125 on: December 22, 2022, 06:45:21 pm »
Polarisation is a real issue.  Most table lamps are single pole switched, and we do not have the concept of split phase like the Americans do with their 240V appliances.   The same applies to other appliances too.

The split phase thing isn't an issue here for that, you'd never see a 240V table lamp. Our 240V circuits are limited to large stationary appliances like electric clothes dryers, cook stoves, electric hot water heaters, built in electric heat, central air conditioning and stuff like that. These things are either hardwired or connected via a special receptacle on a dedicated circuit.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #126 on: December 22, 2022, 06:47:48 pm »
I'm surprised that expensive floor lamps from reputable vendors here in the US still rely on two-prong polarized plugs, even with large brass structures.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #127 on: December 22, 2022, 06:53:43 pm »
I'm surprised that expensive floor lamps from reputable vendors here in the US still rely on two-prong polarized plugs, even with large brass structures.

I am too actually, I'm not sure how they get away with that. About 20 years ago I had one of those 300W halogen torchier lamps in my office at work. I thought I could feel a slight tingle a few times when I touched it, then one day I was moving a PC and I unplugged the VGA cable, it swung and the end of the cable brushed the lamp. There was a bang and a bright flash and the breaker feeding the office I was in tripped. After that I disassembled the lamp and found the top had been twisted around to tighten it up and the end of the threaded tube up the middle had cut through the insulation on the wires to the lampholder. The entire body of the floor lamp had been floating at 120V for who knows how long. Precisely the sort of dangerous fault condition that protective earth ground prevents.
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #128 on: December 23, 2022, 10:24:45 am »
Polarisation is a real issue.  Most table lamps are single pole switched, and we do not have the concept of split phase like the Americans do with their 240V appliances.   The same applies to other appliances too.

The split phase thing isn't an issue here for that, you'd never see a 240V table lamp. Our 240V circuits are limited to large stationary appliances like electric clothes dryers, cook stoves, electric hot water heaters, built in electric heat, central air conditioning and stuff like that. These things are either hardwired or connected via a special receptacle on a dedicated circuit.

Amateur Radio Linear Amplifiers are a case where they use a special receptacle in the USA.

Not directly on topic, but a trap with some devices designed for such service is where they use capacitors between each "hot" connection & ground.
They will work OK "out of the box" in 240v "Active & Neutral" systems, but the capacitors are usually specified to be well inside their ratings only in the designed service, where they have 120v across them.

Unfortunately, if used in Australia, NZ, UK, EU, China, etc, one cap has zero volts across it, & the other, the whole 240V.
Caps, being more rugged than we often allege, survive for years, but will eventually succumb.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #129 on: December 24, 2022, 12:44:27 pm »
The biggest failing (IMO) of the British plug is there's no accommodation for anything other than 13A plugs.  It would be nice to see something like a 32A plug built on a similar style (perhaps with backwards compatibility for 13A plugs?)  Such plugs could be used for higher power appliances (ovens, for instance) or portable EV charging.  I believe Australia allows this, it's common to find 20 and 25A sockets in kitchens.  Imagine a 32A kettle!

Australian sockets:


In truth, however, you don't see much more than 10A sockets everywhere, with the rare appearance of a 15A that's been installed for a specific reason.
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #130 on: December 24, 2022, 12:59:25 pm »
Australian sockets:

In truth, however, you don't see much more than 10A sockets everywhere, with the rare appearance of a 15A that's been installed for a specific reason.

Are these 10A sockets truly capable of 10A? If yes, it's ample current!

You know the European mess with our "Schuko" bullshit, which is all nominally rated to 16A, but this also means it's completely expected they set your house on fire, and manufacturers of equipment just "need to know" to derate the continuous current to below 8A or so (which made EV charging massively slow, too, not much better than the U.S. 120V 15A plugs).

All Schukos are usually wired and fused at 16A. No one ever admitted the poor design and said "hey, let's change the official rating to 10A and change the fusing accordingly in new installments". So even to this day, new installs use 16A fusing, totally unsuitable for the socket and plug.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #131 on: December 24, 2022, 01:12:12 pm »
Are these 10A sockets truly capable of 10A?
They certainly are.

What I find is that you usually consider the total load on a circuit to avoid a breaker tripping more than the actual load on any one socket.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #132 on: December 24, 2022, 01:15:44 pm »
Is it Australia that has/had   a plug with a socket on the back ,no multi way strips needed,
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #133 on: December 24, 2022, 02:08:04 pm »
I have seen similar 3-prong plugs with socket in the US, but not for some time.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #134 on: December 24, 2022, 07:39:55 pm »
...
You know the European mess with our "Schuko" bullshit, which is all nominally rated to 16A, but this also means it's completely expected they set your house on fire, and manufacturers of equipment just "need to know" to derate the continuous current to below 8A or so (which made EV charging massively slow, too, not much better than the U.S. 120V 15A plugs).
...

It seems to be an issue here too - I'm not sure how new this is but  there are standard 13A sockets... and 13A sockets suitable for charging you EV!

Best Regards, Chris
 

Offline IanB

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #135 on: December 24, 2022, 09:22:30 pm »
It seems to be an issue here too - I'm not sure how new this is but  there are standard 13A sockets... and 13A sockets suitable for charging you EV!

I guess I'm not totally surprised by this.

You can use a 13 A socket for a 3000 W electric kettle (3000/240 = 12.5) because kettles only run for 2-3 minutes at a go. If you try to put an extended 3000 W load on a 13 A socket, things are likely to get a bit hot and melty.

I do recall that you can get 2 kW space heaters that will run for extended periods, but they are going to pull about 8.3 A, which should be OK.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #136 on: December 24, 2022, 11:36:14 pm »
seems  more like a money grabbing con considering the british standards   require them to handle 14A for a single and 20A for a double (14A + 6A),  for 4-8 hours without going above 52c
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #137 on: December 25, 2022, 04:40:14 am »
The biggest failing (IMO) of the British plug is there's no accommodation for anything other than 13A plugs.  It would be nice to see something like a 32A plug built on a similar style (perhaps with backwards compatibility for 13A plugs?)  Such plugs could be used for higher power appliances (ovens, for instance) or portable EV charging.  I believe Australia allows this, it's common to find 20 and 25A sockets in kitchens.  Imagine a 32A kettle!

Australian sockets:


In truth, however, you don't see much more than 10A sockets everywhere, with the rare appearance of a 15A that's been installed for a specific reason.
10A special I have seen used for stage lighting , theatre backstage color disc motors on lighting kit.
other 10A ubiquitous. the 15A been the maximum before installing three phase power outlets.
the other three 20A , 25A & 32A in single phase, I have never seen used.   did not know they existed
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline mendip_discovery

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #138 on: December 25, 2022, 10:00:06 am »
I found it interesting when the UK made a snap announcement that Derv/petrol cars will be no longer made from 2040 err 2035 oh now its 2030. Yet they had done very little to put pressure on new build properties to have infrastructure to support the new electric cars that people will end up having. You know, three phase the the housing estates to help cope with the demand, all new houses to be built with charing point or at least a supply in place so one can be fitted at a later date.
Motorcyclist, Nerd, and I work in a Calibration Lab :-)
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So everyone is clear, Calibration = Taking Measurement against a known source, Verification = Checking Calibration against Specification, Adjustment = Adjusting the unit to be within specifications.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #139 on: December 25, 2022, 10:14:41 am »
Quote
Yet they had done very little to put pressure on new build properties to have infrastructure to support the new electric cars that people will end up having.

As of June 15th, 2022, in a change to building regulations across all of England, building developers will be required to ensure electric-vehicle (EV) charging points are installed within the following:

    New-build homes
    New-build workplaces
    Supermarkets
    Buildings undergoing major renovations.
 

Offline mendip_discovery

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #140 on: December 25, 2022, 10:24:15 am »
Ah, I must have missed that. I was speaking to a electrical engineer a few months back and he said that the plans were coming in but the building developers are not keen on it.
Motorcyclist, Nerd, and I work in a Calibration Lab :-)
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So everyone is clear, Calibration = Taking Measurement against a known source, Verification = Checking Calibration against Specification, Adjustment = Adjusting the unit to be within specifications.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #141 on: December 25, 2022, 01:03:43 pm »
You know, three phase the the housing estates to help cope with the demand

They already have three phase.

Ah, I must have missed that. I was speaking to a electrical engineer a few months back and he said that the plans were coming in but the building developers are not keen on it.

Of course they're not keen on it, that means spending money.
 

Offline Alti

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Re: [YouTube]: American is impressed by sensible British mains plug design
« Reply #142 on: December 25, 2022, 06:31:11 pm »
All Schukos (..) So even to this day, new installs use 16A fusing, totally unsuitable for the socket and plug.
It is also worth noting 16A circuit breakers compliant with IEC 60898-1, are not guaranteed to trip at 23.1A loads for indefinitely long (if MCB is what you describe by "fusing"). Also, circuit breakers are selected for protection of the wiring, neither the appliance nor the plug nor socket. Wiring only. You cannot expect this protection, by design, another words.

I think the protection of socket/plug and downstream appliance relies on the unlikeliness of overload in this setup. There is either open circuit (no fire), nominal load (no fire) or short circuit (no fire because 16A MCB is suitable).

I like the idea of UK plug, polarization and the fact there is a selective overload protection. I wish I could buy a Schuko with standard fuse-holder built-in but that would have required two fuses and twice the power dissipated.
 
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