Author Topic: 140 million liters of water down the drain  (Read 18231 times)

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Offline helius

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #50 on: August 22, 2020, 12:06:40 am »
Urea is one of the most common nitrogen fertilizers; ammonium nitrate is a much more concentrated source of N, but less widely used for what should be obvious reasons. Perhaps surprising is that urea has very little smell and is white in color, not yellow. It is also commonly used to support bacterial or yeast fermentation, which is why urine doesn't stay germ-free for long. Indeed, fermentation of urine-soaked straw was the original source of nitrate for making gunpowder.
There's always too much of a good thing, though, and concentrated urine can "burn" plants, just like commercial fertilizer if used at too strong a rate.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #51 on: August 22, 2020, 12:51:30 am »
If you have ever looked at what is in the piping used to deliver water you will add a filter.

Mrs EEVblog is a former water quality scientist with Sydney Water. We filter all our drinking water ;)
 
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #52 on: August 22, 2020, 01:11:16 am »
There's always too much of a good thing, though, and concentrated urine can "burn" plants, just like commercial fertilizer if used at too strong a rate.
Works surprisingly well as "organic weedkiller", if directly applied to the leaves and allowed to dry.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline eti

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #53 on: August 22, 2020, 01:12:12 am »
If you have ever looked at what is in the piping used to deliver water you will add a filter.

Mrs EEVblog is a former water quality scientist with Sydney Water. We filter all our drinking water ;)

Dave, can you recommend a permanent installation filter type? We use "Brita" jug for 5 years, works well but something more permanent would be better I feel. Thanks!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #54 on: August 22, 2020, 02:25:05 am »
Response from Mrs EEVBlog after seeing that article: "That's ridiculous!"
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #55 on: August 22, 2020, 02:36:58 am »
I use 100% steam distilled water exclusively for drinking, tea, and rice cooking & when I make old fashioned chicken soup.
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #56 on: August 22, 2020, 02:39:12 am »
Quote
Isn't that partly why water in most of the US is slightly chlorinated so that things like this don't matter?

In most cities, it's fluorinated with a few ug/L; helps convert the hydroxyapatite in tooth enamel into fluoroapatite, which is a bit more durable. Chlorine is usually what they dump in copious amounts into swimming pools.

Drinking water is chlorinated at the point of supply as a standard measure in treated water systems. You can smell the chlorine if you run fresh water from the tap/faucet at high velocity so it froths up.
why they didn't use O3? (ozone)

   Some places do but it's more expensive and not as effective in killing all possible germs and the germ killing effect doesn't last as long.  Somewhere I have the technical manuals for the O3 water treatment plant that's in (or was?) in Melbourne, Fla.
 

Offline hendorog

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #57 on: August 22, 2020, 03:52:34 am »
Quote
Isn't that partly why water in most of the US is slightly chlorinated so that things like this don't matter?

In most cities, it's fluorinated with a few ug/L; helps convert the hydroxyapatite in tooth enamel into fluoroapatite, which is a bit more durable. Chlorine is usually what they dump in copious amounts into swimming pools.

Drinking water is chlorinated at the point of supply as a standard measure in treated water systems. You can smell the chlorine if you run fresh water from the tap/faucet at high velocity so it froths up.
why they didn't use O3? (ozone)

   Some places do but it's more expensive and not as effective in killing all possible germs and the germ killing effect doesn't last as long.  Somewhere I have the technical manuals for the O3 water treatment plant that's in (or was?) in Melbourne, Fla.

Not an expert, but I think you are correct. I have worked on a couple of water treatment plant jobs in industrial automation for small towns.

The Chlorine was added at a level such that 'at the end of the line' there will be a enough chlorine remaining in the water - called free available chlorine - to continue to kill bugs.

'At the start of the line' the chlorine level is higher as not much of it has reacted with anything, so that is another limit. Back when I did this they were more concerned about killing goldfish with high chlorine doses than any health concerns.

Ozone wouldn't have that effect.

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #58 on: August 22, 2020, 03:58:06 am »
If you have ever looked at what is in the piping used to deliver water you will add a filter.
Mrs EEVblog is a former water quality scientist with Sydney Water. We filter all our drinking water ;)
Dave, can you recommend a permanent installation filter type? We use "Brita" jug for 5 years, works well but something more permanent would be better I feel. Thanks!

Can't remember the exact model, but something like this:
https://purewatersystems.com.au/collections/reverse-osmosis-purification/products/4-stage-reverse-osmosis-under-sink
This one without the tank is cheaper:
https://purewatersystems.com.au/collections/under-sink-water-filtration-systems/products/twin-under-sink-water-filtration-system
Had ours for well over a decade.
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2020, 04:25:19 am »
If you have ever looked at what is in the piping used to deliver water you will add a filter.
Mrs EEVblog is a former water quality scientist with Sydney Water. We filter all our drinking water ;)
Dave, can you recommend a permanent installation filter type? We use "Brita" jug for 5 years, works well but something more permanent would be better I feel. Thanks!
Compared to the price I pay for distilled water and the quantity I drink, the I would break even in around 2 years.

Can't remember the exact model, but something like this:
https://purewatersystems.com.au/collections/reverse-osmosis-purification/products/4-stage-reverse-osmosis-under-sink
This one without the tank is cheaper:
https://purewatersystems.com.au/collections/under-sink-water-filtration-systems/products/twin-under-sink-water-filtration-system
Had ours for well over a decade.
Nice filter.  I wonder what would happen if you placed a few in series.  Would the water pressure even make it through?
Would those % removal figures increase by and additive or multiplicative factor...

With the price of the unit compared to the local price of distilled water, I would break even in 2 years.  However, without knowing the price of new filter cartridges or how long they would last with my tap water, I cannot tell if it would be a winning or loosing proposition.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2020, 04:33:30 am by BrianHG »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2020, 04:51:06 am »
Nice filter.  I wonder what would happen if you placed a few in series.  Would the water pressure even make it through?

Pretty sure it's wouldn't work. It takes ages to refill the tank if you drain it, and we have pretty high water pressure.

Quote
With the price of the unit compared to the local price of distilled water, I would break even in 2 years.  However, without knowing the price of new filter cartridges or how long they would last with my tap water, I cannot tell if it would be a winning or loosing proposition.

We get someone in to replace them every year. IIRC it's about $100 a year for that.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2020, 12:02:02 pm »
A tale of two waters, which exemplifies the differences in the differences needed in water treatment depending on climate and raw water source:

Water 1: 21 years ago, I was living just outside of Washington DC (in Silver Spring, MD, the original home of Pace Worldwide) and I decided to make a pitcher of Kool-Aid. So I mixed it up, took a sip, and dumped it all down the drain — the chlorine taste was unbearable. It literally tasted as though it'd been made with pool water. (I had forgotten that the chlorine would have dissipated had I left it uncovered overnight.) DC is basically built on former swamp land, so in the summer, I guess the raw water is not of optimal quality.

Water 2: Here in Zurich, about 70% of the city water is pumped from the lake, while the remainder is a half spring water piped in from a nearby mountain range and half well water from within the city. Since Switzerland is at the top of Europe, altitude-wise, the water here is largely "virgin", needing relatively little treatment. (Amusingly, they use pools of live fish as "canaries" for early detection of water quality issues.) And I must say, the water here is excellent — it tastes great, and even in the summer it comes out of the tap fairly cold. But Zurich actually has a backup water system, too, in case the main system becomes inoperable because of power failure or contamination of the lake! Remember the mountain spring water pipeline I mentioned before? It's purely gravity-fed and requires no filtration beyond a sand filter, ensuring a backup supply even without power. A separate network of 150km of pipes sends this water directly to critical consumers like hospitals, but also to over 400 fountains throughout the city, about 85 of which are special emergency fountains with hidden internal hydrants, guaranteeing 15 liters per person per day. During normal operation, they operate as normal water fountains that literally spout spring water for free. (If you're ever in ZH and see a drinking fountain that looks like a bronze R2D2, those are the emergency fountains.)
 

Offline BrianHG

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2022, 09:33:11 pm »
A third party reviewer on multiple water filters and their quality:


 

Offline Jeff eelcr

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #63 on: July 30, 2022, 03:06:06 am »
Do not tell them what fish do in it.
Jeff
 

Offline Wallace Gasiewicz

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #64 on: July 30, 2022, 10:48:30 pm »
I remember this from years ago, so I might not be entirely correct:
Water from many cities.was taste tested by people. the water that consistently year to year that was voted the best was from Detroit and from New Orleans.
Detroit water comes mostly from Lake Huron, In a big pipe from hundred miles away.
Water from New Orleans is mostly "recycled" in that has been through numerous cities and their sanitation plants before it gets to New Orleans via the Mississippi.  I think they also reprocess their sewage, but I am not sure about this.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2022, 10:50:10 pm by Wallace Gasiewicz »
 

Offline helius

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Re: 140 million liters of water down the drain
« Reply #65 on: August 01, 2022, 02:59:08 pm »
A third party reviewer on multiple water filters and their quality:
I generally like his tests, but I found that one disappointing. Maybe it's a question of "how much you know" about subjects involved.

The main problem is that TDS (total dissolved solids) is not a gauge of water quality. Different filters have different aims, but the common goals are to eliminate turbidity, volatile odors, microbiological contamination, and toxic elements. Measuring TDS doesn't tell you anything about these. For example, a filter that does nothing except remove sodium will show a great improvement in TDS while not improving water quality at all.

The view inside the different filters is revealing, though. An RO filter is just a membrane folded and packed into a box; RO filters can be very good but they require multiple stages of prefilters because they get plugged with sediment easily, which increases cost. The carbon filters he cuts apart contain loose activated carbon granules: this design is a problem because loose granules get pushed around as water flows and open "channels" where very little filtering action can happen. Better filters impregnate the activated carbon with sticky resin so that everything stays as a solid block.
 
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