Author Topic: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'  (Read 4725 times)

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Online nctnico

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25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« on: December 20, 2015, 05:41:20 pm »
From a local newssite it seems it has been 25 years ago today since the first web page was created by Tim Berners-Lee. If think the phrase ' One small step for man and a giant leap for mankind' is more than fitting for this achievement.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline madires

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2015, 06:05:29 pm »
I did my first web page 1994 or 1995 at the university. And before the web we had gopher. Anyone remember that one?
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2015, 06:34:50 pm »
I remember going through a painful migration from NNTP Usenet newsgroups to HTTP web-based forums like this one.

I was a regular user of several newsgroups including...
r.a.m.p.s  rec.arts.movies.production.sound
r.a.t.s =  rec.arts.theater.stagecraft
r.a.p = rec.audio.pro
r.a.t = rec.audio.tech
r.r.a.m =  rec.radio.amateur.moderated
r.v.d =  rec.video.desktop
r.v.p =  rec.video.production
s.c.d =  sci.electronics.design

Some of those appear to be still operating.
I remember the hue and cry when Google bought out the Deja News archive of Usenet
But Google is probably now the last remaining server/archive for Usenet (albeit with a HTTP web-based user interface).
The newsgroups (both the archives and whatever current discussions) are available at: https://groups.google.com
 

Online nctnico

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2015, 09:05:43 pm »
I remember going through a painful migration from NNTP Usenet newsgroups to HTTP web-based forums like this one.
IMHO newsgroups got killed by people vigorously working on stopping people from posting pictures and HTML based content.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2015, 09:15:12 pm »
Early 90's was when we got "wired", wouldn't/couldn't be without it now.  :-DD
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2015, 09:56:31 pm »
I remember going through a painful migration from NNTP Usenet newsgroups to HTTP web-based forums like this one.
IMHO newsgroups got killed by people vigorously working on stopping people from posting pictures and HTML based content.

Newgroups were always full of trolls and haters, and being unmoderated (most of them) meant they got destroyed from within. But that was manageable if you had enough good posters to outweigh the bad.
But the google acquisition of the archive and subsequent ease of web access bought in a new flood of people (called Google Groupers) who tipped that balance out of whack. Combine that with web based BBS style forums like this one for every topic under the sun and usenet just died.
It didn't help when top usenet posters like me started using Google Groups because it was convenient across machines, and found our posts being ignored or blocked en masse, so we just eventually gave up.
I started the Aus-Electronics Yahoo group as a response, and it lasted a few years. But you want a system that's even become less popular than usenet, then Yahoo groups it is!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2015, 09:57:55 pm »
s.c.d =  sci.electronics.design

I think SED is still hanging in there last I looked. Many of the die-hards were still there, even Win Hill of Art Of Electronics fame.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2015, 10:17:06 pm »
From a local newssite it seems it has been 25 years ago today since the first web page was created by Tim Berners-Lee. If think the phrase ' One small step for man and a giant leap for mankind' is more than fitting for this achievement.

I've been using the internet for, gulp, 30 years.

I missed the famous "kremvax" hoax ( http://www.godfatherof.nl/kremvax.html ), but still remember the pain of sending email using "bang paths". You had to specify each individual router the email would pass through between source and destination, which lead to conversations like "have you tried going via uclvax, they are well connected and might have a path".

Perhaps the title should be "25 years of the world wide web 'as we know it'"?
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline MT

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2015, 10:23:18 pm »
Deja vu?! :)
Quote
   I cant believe people actually are getting upset over a simple joke.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2015, 10:39:01 pm »
Perhaps the title should be "25 years of the world wide web 'as we know it'"?

Nope, pretty accurate title.
Joe average did not use "the Internet" "as we know it" before the WWW.
Heck, countless people use The Microsoft Network (MSN) when Windows 95 came out, and whilst is was effectively and ISP, is sucked pretty bad and mostly was it's own network.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2015, 10:41:36 pm »
I remember the "information super-highway" and using those CompuServe interfaces before web browsers became the norm.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2015, 10:43:08 pm »
Perhaps the title should be "25 years of the world wide web 'as we know it'"?

Nope, pretty accurate title.
Joe average did not use "the Internet" "as we know it" before the WWW.
Heck, countless people use The Microsoft Network (MSN) when Windows 95 came out, and whilst is was effectively and ISP, is sucked pretty bad and mostly was it's own network.

Only in the way that Sydney is the capital of Australia, because Joe average thinks it is.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2015, 10:58:41 pm »
I have been on the Internet since 1985-1986.

I don't miss how cumbersome it was when sending emails to other networks.

When I needed to select a provider for business trips around the world the established one was Compuserve, but MSN was cheaper so I selected that one (way before windows 95) I don't recall if AOL was out then, but I needed to be able to have local access points because phone calls where not cheap back then.

Pre AOL we could send live video streams without compression, but opening the floodgates was a good thing, there was not much around before that.
 

Offline Marco

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2015, 11:11:54 pm »
I remember going through a painful migration from NNTP Usenet newsgroups to HTTP web-based forums like this one.

Then it took over a decade to get some of the functionality back, with most forums (like this one) still clinging on to the single threaded post model.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2015, 12:44:56 am »
I remember going through a painful migration from NNTP Usenet newsgroups to HTTP web-based forums like this one.
Then it took over a decade to get some of the functionality back, with most forums (like this one) still clinging on to the single threaded post model.

There are much worse forums: some (e.g. edaboard and allaboutcircuits) only allow one level of quoting, so it is impossible to have a subtle complex discussion because the context is discarded by design. Potentially interesting discussions fizzle out rapidly. What's left is more or less "which button in <tool> do I press to cause it to wibble leftwards?". I have a suspicion they are all stackexchange wannabees.

So, while I miss threading, multi-level contexts are an acceptable substitute. Kudos to Dave for having a useful set of features in this forum, plus a suitably light touch.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Polossatik

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2015, 12:53:02 am »
I did my first web page 1994 or 1995 at the university. And before the web we had gopher. Anyone remember that one?

sure, i've been also on the "internet" since when the only option available was a shell account :) (all hail to local university for the connection in 91? or 92?)
IRC , gopher , newsgroups and mail ... together with local BBS'es (I was BBS PCBoard sysop (running on OS/2 at then end!) from the era when 9600 baud was really hot stuff - and one with 2 (!) phone lines) 
My kid brother still maintained a gopher site I hosted for him until 2 years ago...
just checked the stats .. 86 hits the last year it was online.... :)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2015, 12:58:05 am by Polossatik »
Real Circuit design time in minutes= (2 + Nscopes) Testim + (40 +120 Kbrewski) Nfriends

Testim = estimated time in minutes Nscopes= number of oscilloscopes present Kbrewski = linear approx of the nonlinear beer effect Nfriends = number of circuit design friends present
 

Offline John_ITIC

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2015, 06:23:19 am »
I did my first web page 1994 or 1995 at the university. And before the web we had gopher. Anyone remember that one?

Yes! I was in University too at the time. I walked into the computer lab one evening and the guys were playing around with Mosaic, the first web browser. I was accessing the university computer (a VME-based, Motorola 68K box running UNIX) via Telnet so I could search for warez programs on Gopher and FTP. Had to go to the computer lab to actually retrieve the software by copying to floppy disks. I vividly recall being very impressed by the high-speed internet connection we had in the computer lab; THE SOFTWARE ACTUALLY DOWNLOADED FASTER THAN I COULD COPY IT TO FLOPPY DISK!!! I think they had a 1 Mbps internet connection at the time. Now, I'm getting some 80 Mbps bandwidth. Next year, 1 Gbps will be available.

I still remember the machine name: louise.tt.luth.se... Now, it's off-line.

Offline mtdoc

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2015, 06:54:23 am »
Perhaps the title should be "25 years of the world wide web 'as we know it'"?

Nope, pretty accurate title.
Joe average did not use "the Internet" "as we know it" before the WWW.

Yes, sadly for 99.99% of people, the Internet = www. That fact makes me feel very old.
 

Offline Marco

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2015, 07:33:37 am »
Nah, there's also Skype, Netflix and torrenting.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2015, 10:04:41 am »
Perhaps the title should be "25 years of the world wide web 'as we know it'"?

Nope, pretty accurate title.
Joe average did not use "the Internet" "as we know it" before the WWW.

Yes, sadly for 99.99% of people, the Internet = www.

If you're going down that path, why not continue to a perfectly "reasonable" resting point (not conclusion!): for 99% of people internet=google+amazon+facebook+gmail.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline madires

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2015, 12:17:40 pm »
IRC , gopher , newsgroups and mail ... together with local BBS'es (I was BBS PCBoard sysop (running on OS/2 at then end!) from the era when 9600 baud was really hot stuff - and one with 2 (!) phone lines) 

CNet on Amiga 'til 2000 and still Fidonet node (2:240/1661). And the ZyXEL U-1496EG+ is also still running fine.  8) Starting in '93 or '94 my BBS was one of the few ones offering email and newsgroups besides Fidonet and some other FTS networks.
 

Offline IconicPCB

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2015, 01:38:59 pm »


Whats email?

Dial up modem with  Z modem protocol and send and receive files ( Gerber files, i was running a bare board testing facility)
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2015, 04:32:28 pm »
Whats email?

Dial up modem with  Z modem protocol and send and receive files ( Gerber files, i was running a bare board testing facility)

The successor to morse and teletype and fax :)

For the youngsters: how do you encode letters, numbers and symbols on 5-channel paper tape (hint 25=32 :) )
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: 25 years of internet 'as we know it'
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2015, 05:25:10 pm »
Perhaps as interesting to look at from an outsiders point of view.  Relatively late to the internet party.

Got started in computing at the university, back when time share was a brilliant new technology.  University machine was a Burroughs 6600 and the time share was definitely not ready for prime time.  It was much more efficient to punch card decks and submit batch jobs since: A:  The terminals were all either 150 baud or 300 baud teletype consoles, B: The system crashed several times an hour.

Later, at a large DOD contractor, was dimly aware of the internet, but only a few researchers actually had accounts and access.  Built my own Z80 based computers to do my own computing since corporation had not yet seen the value in engineers with access to computing power outside of the context of large simulations or batch computation.  Didn't find much value in the 300 baud telephone based networks so depended more on sneakernet at various venues to exchange software.  Might have been different if I lived in the boonies, but at that time in Southern California there were many, many contacts for software and data.

Finally graduated to AOL and higher speed modems in the late 1980s.  I had by then provided key family members with my castoff Z80 based computers so now there was a use for email, and a need for interfaces that non-engineers could deal with.  AOL was priced right (the multiple user names per account didn't have to be in the same city so the whole family only used one account) and had local dial up access just about everywhere. 

At about the same time work started providing a desktop computer per workgroup (about 10 or 15 engineers) and a decent speed internet connection.  Web became a little bit useful, but it wasn't an environment to sit around chatting. 

Another year or two and due to my senior staff position I get my own desktop computer (a DEC Rainbow) and the entire corporation goes onto DEC's proprietary network.  Lots of work done, but it isn't really the internet.

It wasn't until the mid to late-1990s when high speed connections came to the home, and a few corporate mergers normalized the work computing environment to a more compatible standard that I got any use out of the world wide web. 

To me, the truly modern era began when vendors starting putting their data sheets/catalogs and price lists on the web.   My recollection was that this started a little before 2000 and wasn't mature for several years.
 


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