Author Topic: 3D Printer yet?  (Read 66933 times)

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Offline aargee

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2018, 12:06:42 pm »
I use glass and hairspray, works a treat. Mostly printing in PLA and TPU.
Not easy, not hard, just need to be incentivised.
 

Offline ANTALIFE

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2018, 02:03:02 am »
+1 for Prusa i3 MK3, since changing to this printer from Makerfarm i3v I have to say printing is a breeze.

The MK3 has an auto bed leveling function before you start each print so all you have to do is slice your model and hit go, rather than fluff around for 10-20min making sure your 1st layer is good enough to continue.

Online Mr. Scram

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2018, 08:38:46 am »
+1 for Prusa i3 MK3, since changing to this printer from Makerfarm i3v I have to say printing is a breeze.

The MK3 has an auto bed leveling function before you start each print so all you have to do is slice your model and hit go, rather than fluff around for 10-20min making sure your 1st layer is good enough to continue.
In my experience you only need to mess around with levelling for that long when you just start out. After a few prints you simply tweak the level when the printer is laying down the brim.
 

Offline branadic

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2018, 07:52:53 pm »
Since we started to work with Anycubic Photon the big question was, what is the . This little video I found after a while on youtube perfectly represents the experiences we made during the first days.

The 250ml green resin that was coming with the printer was used up very quickly. So we turned over to gray resin and that seems to be more tolerant with the same parameters given in the upper video.

Next question is, are there alternative and maybe cheaper resins that could be used? I think this is the most interesting question in combination with what are the best settings for it on Anycubic Photon? A first experience can be found on . Sharing this information with the community is one of the golden keys and many people could benefit from it.

For example, there are castable resins for 405nm available, that could be interesting for certain projects, but that haven't been tested on Anycubic Photon yet.

And there are also ceramic resins available for 405nm, that can be burned after printing for higher temperature applications.

-branadic-
Metrology Meeting 2020 is canceled. Looking forward for MM2021
 
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Offline beanflying

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2018, 03:03:50 am »
Uhu Powered Stick  :-+

Much nicer than tape even as a newbie. Small brim and so far nothing has come unstuck or warped on PLA with a 50 degree bed. Makers Muse test print without supports in progress.

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Offline beanflying

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2018, 10:58:56 am »
Couple of 'failures' trying Vase mode to make a lampshade. I think a soft glowing LED lamp inside the trimmed bits might be in order  :)

Also trying out sli3er Prusa Edition and like in much more than the sli3er.org vesion  :-\ Interesting just how differently they slice some of the layers using the identical config file.

Just to confuse my Brain (not difficult) I have also downloaded Ideamaker too.

« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 11:01:04 am by beanflying »
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Offline Fred27

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2018, 01:57:35 pm »
Thanks for linking to those videos branadic. I'm considering an Anycubic Photon at the moment.

As I tend to make structural rather than decorative pieces, how easy is it to get accurate dimensions? I saw 7.1% shrinkage mentioned for one resin. That can't be right - it would be almost unusable.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2018, 02:46:13 pm »
All this mention of glue sticks made me realise what's on the build bed of my Flashforge, now I need to work out how to get rid of the stuff.
 

Offline janoc

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2018, 03:39:20 pm »
All this mention of glue sticks made me realise what's on the build bed of my Flashforge, now I need to work out how to get rid of the stuff.

If it is the usual cheap PVA glue, just wash it off with water. That glue is water soluble. If it is an old residue, let it soak for a few minutes and then use a normal Scotch-Brite kitchen sponge - it cleans right off.

I personally prefer this to hair spray and such because the glue stick goes only where needed and not everywhere like the aerosol (e.g. gumming up the linear bearings or lead screws). It is also easier to clean off.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2018, 05:48:05 pm »
If it is the usual cheap PVA glue, just wash it off with water. That glue is water soluble. If it is an old residue, let it soak for a few minutes and then use a normal Scotch-Brite kitchen sponge - it cleans right off.

I think it was glue stick or maybe PVA (I'm not sure that's water soluble when cured?) Two minutes under a tap with a srubbing brush and it's all gone, lovely clean blue printing bed now and the first print of the day is about to start to see if it sticks.
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2018, 06:15:57 pm »
I upgraded from my Printrbot Simple Metal to CR-10 about 6 months ago. I didn't have a heated bed on the PSM and the upgrade would have been just as much as getting a new printer. So I said WTH, I'll just get the CR-10 which people were raving about. Heated bed really helps with eliminating warping and in my opinion is a must for 3D printing these days.

Quite happy with the purchase. I was in business printing fairly quickly, after about 5 tries to print using Slic3r and Cura, I bit the bullet and gave Simplify3D a try. They already have the CR-10 profiles pre-set perfectly. And it's a very nice product I highly recommend. It's a few extra dollars you have to spend but it's really worth it in my opinion.

First few things I printed which were an absolute must were larger print bed leveling knobs. The one that come with the printer are painful to use. At some point I will do the auto leveling mod because I find leveling a pain. I mess it up every once in a while an having to cancel a print and start a new one is annoying. Although to be honest it really isn't a big deal.

My workflow looks like this:

- Fusion360 or SolidPython: Depending on the complexity of part I have to make I use these two tools to design my 3D objects.

- Simplify3D.. this is where I convert the STL I designed into .gcode for the printer. With all the settings Simplify3D allows. Simplify3D has a really nice interface for supports. So it's really easy adding supports to difficult to print shapes.

- RaspberryPi (1st gen) running OctoPrint.. it lets me control the printer wirelessly (I had this in my previous setup with Printerbot so I just used it with CR-10. I highly recommend using a 3d print server) It is much easier using the web interface than having to navigate the UI on the printer itself. I just upload my .gcode files and print from a web interface.

- CR-10, mostly stock. Only change I made to it as I mentioned was the large autoleveling knobs and some zip ties to hold the PSU from falling since it's by the edge of my desk. Two upgrades I am looking to make are the new Noctua fan for the PSU and the autoleveling mod.

- I tried bunch of different hairsprays to keep the prints stuck to the glass and I found Aqua Net Extra Super Hold Professional Hair Spray is by far the best one. Ever since I started using it I never had a part come unglued from the glass. I just wash the glass with some warm water and detergent between prints.

What do I think about CR-10? The hype is real. For the price you get a very nice printing platform. The community behind it also large and very helpful.. there are tons of upgrades and mods you can make to the printer.

For my personal needs I only wish it was a bit smaller, because bench space is at a premium but on the other hand it is nice knowing I can do larger prints if need arises.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2018, 06:19:22 pm by Muxr »
 

Offline janoc

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2018, 07:23:49 pm »
If it is the usual cheap PVA glue, just wash it off with water. That glue is water soluble. If it is an old residue, let it soak for a few minutes and then use a normal Scotch-Brite kitchen sponge - it cleans right off.

I think it was glue stick or maybe PVA (I'm not sure that's water soluble when cured?) Two minutes under a tap with a srubbing brush and it's all gone, lovely clean blue printing bed now and the first print of the day is about to start to see if it sticks.

The cheap white glue sticks (UHU and similar) for gluing paper and similar are all PVA-based glues. All water soluble. Some are even marketed as "washable". It is the same stuff as "Elmer's glue".

PVA is even used as a water-soluble support material for 3D printing - instead of laboriously removing the support material (and risking damage to the print) you let it soak and then wash it out.
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2018, 08:56:46 pm »
- CR-10, mostly stock. Only change I made to it as I mentioned was the large autoleveling knobs and some zip ties to hold the PSU from falling since it's by the edge of my desk. Two upgrades I am looking to make are the new Noctua fan for the PSU and the autoleveling mod.
The Noctua fans are highly overrated for that application. Something much cheaper like a Cooler Master fan would work at least as well and you won't be able to tell the difference since the stepper motors are what make the most noise.
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Offline branadic

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2018, 09:51:13 pm »
Thanks for linking to those videos branadic. I'm considering an Anycubic Photon at the moment.

As I tend to make structural rather than decorative pieces, how easy is it to get accurate dimensions? I saw 7.1% shrinkage mentioned for one resin. That can't be right - it would be almost unusable.

Can't answer for the moment as we found out that our z-axis is misaligned in almost each direction. We need to fix this issue first, before I can make any statement on shrinkage und dimensional accuracy/mismatch. You won't see this issue when printing figures, but if you go into functional parts you see every imperfection that happened during assembly of the printer.
I wonder that noone else out there documented this issue before.

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Offline Muxr

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2018, 09:54:45 pm »
- CR-10, mostly stock. Only change I made to it as I mentioned was the large autoleveling knobs and some zip ties to hold the PSU from falling since it's by the edge of my desk. Two upgrades I am looking to make are the new Noctua fan for the PSU and the autoleveling mod.
The Noctua fans are highly overrated for that application. Something much cheaper like a Cooler Master fan would work at least as well and you won't be able to tell the difference since the stepper motors are what make the most noise.
You're right of course. But I like Noctua and have been using them on all my gear for years. The fan in question isn't that expensive: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009NQLT0M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #40 on: August 01, 2018, 11:24:58 pm »
Since changing my CR-10 to the Fang cooler the heat break fan is running a little quieter as it now has no intake shrouding and isn't contained in a metal resonance chamber ;)

Stepper Dampers on X and Y are a must do IMO and should really be fitted as standard from the factory. Creality's Aliexpress Store sells them just need to be nudged to fit them on new units :horse:

Touch PLA/wood the Lamp shade is at 57% (12 hours) and running nicely. Interesting even with it in vase mode on the Prusa sli3er it is breaking that on some layers to add a series of secondary supports at the points :o
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Offline beanflying

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #41 on: August 02, 2018, 08:50:06 am »
 :phew: 22 Hours Later and a very nervous 28mm Hole drilled in the base.

Not where it is going to live but the light and dark variations depending on viewing angle works great with a 5W LED globe inside. 210mm Tall and about 150mm diameter.
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Offline CJay

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #42 on: August 03, 2018, 03:21:47 pm »

The cheap white glue sticks (UHU and similar) for gluing paper and similar are all PVA-based glues. All water soluble. Some are even marketed as "washable". It is the same stuff as "Elmer's glue".

PVA is even used as a water-soluble support material for 3D printing - instead of laboriously removing the support material (and risking damage to the print) you let it soak and then wash it out.

Well it came off nicely when I scrubbed it (fairly gently) under the tap, you're right PVA is water soluble, I really thought it wasn't, tried a few prints, some lifted, some stuck, no immediately obvious pattern so I gave it a second scrub with IPA and now things seem to be sticking to the bed nicely.

I've ordered a pack of replacement 'blue' stuff for the bed, precut squares, so I've got spares but I don't think it wears out?
 

Offline janoc

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2018, 03:58:53 pm »

Well it came off nicely when I scrubbed it (fairly gently) under the tap, you're right PVA is water soluble, I really thought it wasn't, tried a few prints, some lifted, some stuck, no immediately obvious pattern so I gave it a second scrub with IPA and now things seem to be sticking to the bed nicely.

I've ordered a pack of replacement 'blue' stuff for the bed, precut squares, so I've got spares but I don't think it wears out?

The tape will always wear out and get damaged over time. The blue stuff is a normal masking tape you can get cheaply in any hardware store, certainly much cheaper than the rip-off prices people charge when the "for 3D printing" label is used.

I personally prefer the glue - it is much easier to put on and clean up than tape and works also for ABS. Tape is not really  good for ABS.

After cleaning the glue off you should degrease the bed - IPA or even normal alcohol will work fine.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2018, 04:01:15 pm by janoc »
 

Offline branadic

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2018, 10:44:18 pm »
Thanks for linking to those videos branadic. I'm considering an Anycubic Photon at the moment.

As I tend to make structural rather than decorative pieces, how easy is it to get accurate dimensions? I saw 7.1% shrinkage mentioned for one resin. That can't be right - it would be almost unusable.

Can't answer for the moment as we found out that our z-axis is misaligned in almost each direction. We need to fix this issue first, before I can make any statement on shrinkage und dimensional accuracy/mismatch. You won't see this issue when printing figures, but if you go into functional parts you see every imperfection that happened during assembly of the printer.
I wonder that noone else out there documented this issue before.

-branadic-

Disassembled z-axis aluminium profile today. Instead of milling the surface of the profile they just have sawn and filed it. No big wonder that the    mounting surface was skewed. Corrected for that (had to remove 0.2mm to get an angled surface), mounted everything together and checked geometry of the profile in respect to the red platform and the display. However, the printer still doesn't produce geometric correct parts. Need to dig into that further next week, there is still a systemetic error that needs to be found.

-branadic-
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 08:04:50 pm by branadic »
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Offline aandrew

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2018, 01:50:21 am »
This is a timely post. I *just* (as in yesterday) received a Creality Ender 3. I've had an M3D for about a half year before that and a half-built Prusa i2 that has been collecting dust for what I think is the last four years now.

I am *amazed* at how good this printer is, right out of the box! I can only assume that they have built it, calibrated it, then took it apart for shipping. Zero backlash, dimensionally accurate and almost zero tweaking. The M3D is garbage compared to it, and I bet I'd have been futzing with that old i2 for another year to get to this kind of print output.

The only things I did were to print a couple of filament guides to help prevent the filament from having sharp bends before it enters the extruder, and a better cooling fan guide for the printed material. Oh, and I picked up a small square cut of mirror from the local glass shop ($16) for the print bed, as the aluminum bed it has is warped, which is common. I'm very, very seriously impressed with this printer. It was CAD$325 shipped free (amazon prime). Took about an hour from unboxing to printing.

What I'm currently printing (as I type this):



 

Offline beanflying

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2018, 03:51:42 am »

The cheap white glue sticks (UHU and similar) for gluing paper and similar are all PVA-based glues. All water soluble. Some are even marketed as "washable". It is the same stuff as "Elmer's glue".

PVA is even used as a water-soluble support material for 3D printing - instead of laboriously removing the support material (and risking damage to the print) you let it soak and then wash it out.

Well it came off nicely when I scrubbed it (fairly gently) under the tap, you're right PVA is water soluble, I really thought it wasn't, tried a few prints, some lifted, some stuck, no immediately obvious pattern so I gave it a second scrub with IPA and now things seem to be sticking to the bed nicely.

I've ordered a pack of replacement 'blue' stuff for the bed, precut squares, so I've got spares but I don't think it wears out?

Have a look around on youtube for using PVA for dis-solvable supports for 3D printing (dual extrusion printers). Much happier with Glu Stick without the tape and I got a bottle of Elmers branded glue to water down and try as a mist on the bed.

Mmmm Ender 3 I 'need' a second printer  >:D
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Offline branadic

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2018, 04:55:20 pm »
Thanks for linking to those videos branadic. I'm considering an Anycubic Photon at the moment.

As I tend to make structural rather than decorative pieces, how easy is it to get accurate dimensions? I saw 7.1% shrinkage mentioned for one resin. That can't be right - it would be almost unusable.

After some tests we performed I can now state something to the dimensional accuracy, even though test's are still in progress.
First of all, z-axis was fully misaligned. So we disassambled z-axis and found that the mounting surface looked like it was sawn and filed and thus fully out of angle.  :palm: We removed 0.2mm with the milling maschine, reassembled the z-axis and it's now perfectly in angle to the red anodized platform in each direction. Anycubic should have spend this little step during their fabrication of the printer  :--
We then started our tests. Test object is a cube with 10mm feed size arranged in 8 different angles on the plattform, with an 8mm circle being 1mm deep on one of the surfaces, an equal-sided triangle of 8mm height with 1mm depth as well as an indication number on a third surface. These cubes were sliced with the following parameters:
- layer thickness (mm): 0.05
- normal exposure time (s):10
- Off time (s): 6.5
- Bottom exposure time (s): 50
- Bottom layer: 8
- Raft: 1mm + 1mm support structures
- Resin: Anycubic Gray

What we found so far is, that there is a compression of the part in z-direction of ~0.41µm per layer, resulting in an overall compression of the printed part of 170µm along 20.7mm length. The website states a z-accuracy of 1.25µm, but it's not mentioned wether this is an absolut accuracy or a relative accuracy. I guess it's the latter and means that the deviation per layer adds to a total error that we observe.
Since there is currently no possibility to correct for that by an average offset error per layer we can't compensate for that.
We have a last test running right know. We found a spreadsheet about Anycubic Photon Resin Settings. So we changed parameters to values given in the spreadsheet today and started the job:
- layer thickness (mm): 0.035
- normal exposure time (s):14
- Off time (s): 1
- Bottom exposure time (s): 90
- Bottom layer: 8

We will see how that turns out tomorrow. If nothing helps we will contact Anycubic for support and ask for a new firmware with the additional average offset value per layer, which would be a neat feature as you only have to print a dimensional part, measure the difference and divide the difference by the number of layers you printed.

-branadic-
Metrology Meeting 2020 is canceled. Looking forward for MM2021
 

Offline Fred27

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2018, 06:09:07 pm »
Thanks. I ended up getting a Photon as managed to snap one up for £350 (about 390 Euro) new on eBay. In fact it's printing its first test print now - the lattice cube - just to rule out any user error in slicing / orientation etc.

Next will be reference cube(s) to check dimensions. I like your idea about varying orientations. Then I might try a gear bearing, which I'm tempted to try printing flat without support despite that not being the usual way to do thing for SLA/DLP.
 

Offline beanflying

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Re: 3D Printer yet?
« Reply #49 on: August 11, 2018, 10:40:48 am »
Not Electronics 'yet' but I am overhauling a couple of my older Large Coffee Grinders to include some modern smarts (timers, counters etc) and new hoppers.

Enter 3D printing, Rough Sketch after Lunch, to Fusion 360 for 20 minutes (beginner skills) to make the model, Under 10 minutes to slice and get the prototype on the Printer. Go do something else for nearly 2 hours. Find the tolerances to tight for the stainless hoppers, 10 minutes to tweak the model, reslice and back on the Printer. Mk 2 is a winner :-+

Instead of going to another town with hopper and grinder and most likely paying $50+ (If I was lucky) time and fuel to get this done just so nice to be able to crank this out using some time a bit of power and under $1 of filament. As I need 3 of them the next two are dead easy.

So yep 3D Printer time is now 8)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 10:47:52 am by beanflying »
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