3D Printer yet?

[beanflying]

Now done a few prints on the Boro and also a couple on the back smooth side with Glu stick. Front side at my stock PLA temps works well and releases easily when cool no evidence of lifting and I have done the duct shown and another flat 130mm panel plus some smaller ones.

Calling it a good thing at this stage but I might chase up a plain glass one for my other Ender Pro.

Airflow Meter 4" ID Duct clip on adapter shown

[Brumby]

Following this thread is going to get me into so much trouble....

[beanflying]

Following this thread is going to get me into so much trouble....

Only a little more trouble than you are in already I suspect. Start with some CAD/Fusion it is a no cost gateway drug 

Today's project I want a universal mount system to suit the Uni-T Enviro range. http://www.uni-trend.com/html/product/Environmental/Environmental_Tester/Mini/ I have a couple of these and want a simple way to mount them to things by a few different options from tripods to woven straps or anything needed. The BT versions do come with a 1/4-20 insert for tripod mount but the entry level ones don't.

Fusion workflow start by modelling the dimensions and design of the Uni-T and then use that to extrude an over size block into effectively a hollow one. Next step is cut away the bits I don't need and start adding a bit of shape.

Just to make sure it will fit drop a rough one onto the Printer then tweak as needed. When it is a good solid fit then add the mounts needed to the lower plate and finish styling. Part of this approach gives my the basics of another matching enclosure for devices of my own concoction.

[beanflying]

So V1 was a little tight for length. So take the inner model and use the very handy Shell command in Fusion to increase it by 0.6mm on all faces. Reprint overnight and shake inverted to test 

Now for the easy bits adding some mounts for the bottom. But first the Coffee!

[NW27]

Hi
Did you print that on its end?
Layer wise this would be the strongest but a bit of a challenge to print.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[beanflying]

On the Flat. From the first to second prints as well as making it bigger I also fattened up the vertical webs a touch. I am printing PLA 200C so the layer adhesion is fairly good. As none of the angles are below 45 degrees either it doesn't need supports. None of these devices weigh much either.

Finished of the lower part design today and went two part held together with 3mm c/sunk screws and knurl nuts. Has a slot for 1" webbing and a 1/4-20 Tripod thread. Or if it was going to be shaken badly a cable tie could be run through the slot too.

[beanflying]

Love it when a plan comes together - Hannibal Smith/Peppard not Neeson

Simple print because of the split and works a treat. Yep the rubberised feet on the tripod need some glue.

[beanflying]

Calling the bed a winner 24 hours in and out to the bed limits with no lifting only another 8 or so hours to go. Ordering a matching one for my CR-10S

Toilet seat for a Leprechaun maybe?

[beanflying]

Needed a set of Din Rail mounts for a personal job. Grabbed this set of mounts https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3640994/files dragged them into Fusion 360 and converted the STL to a Brep format. Added the top I needed and mirrored the body. Easy with practice, maybe not up to a full blown commercial switchboard but more than up to my horizontal 100kg lump of hardware.

Installed and done in under a few hours.

[MyHeadHz]

I see a big fan sucking heat from that box... aren't you worried about the PLA getting hot enough to fail?

[beanflying]

There is several layers of steel and a large airgap between the gear bay for a start Above that bay there is a constant airflow drawing air from low to high on the roasting chamber. Generally peak temps are circa 50C in the middle of the bay. I must get around to getting some ABS for these sorts of jobs now I have my printers in cabinets or I could have dropped some PETG in too but the PLA was already loaded.

If it was a vertical mount or subject to mechanical strain/vibration then a different material would be well worth it.

[Brumby]

Moving into a more appropriate discussion space.....

The idea of getting a 3D printer has been floating around my head for some time.  So has the idea of a laser cutter.

My big ideas centre around a motion system supporting a laser cutter that can operate over a work area of 3' x 4' (915mm x 1220mm).  The frame will allow pass through access for material so that a 4ft wide sheet of something can be worked on without having been pre-dissected.  Ultimate objective is to be able to take a 2.4m x 1.2m sheet of 12mm plywood and cut pieces out.  That is in the concept stage and for the mean time, I'll be absorbing as much info as I can from others (Yes, I am taking in Russ Sadler's material, among others.)

Should such a beast ever come to be, I would venture a thought in adapting the motion system for 3D printing - but there are several not insignificant hurdles that may make such a proposition impractical.  But, hey, trying to see how far I could go will keep me off the streets.

Nevertheless, in the short term, entering the 3D printing world has progressed from building a DIY, cheap-ass clone of the Prusa I3 with scrap from around the garage to a complete kit.  I have no qualms about assembly.  I would enjoy that.

Beanflying and others had me interested in the Ender 3 - enough for me to have added it to my eBay watchlist with a strong intent to pull the trigger next payday.  However, the price has increased enough to make me baulk.  I had prepared myself for a spend something under AUD$400, which needed to include some extra filament.  With the price increase, that filament list got shorter.   

One of my concerns is getting decent quality filament at a reasonable price, so once I dive in, any pointers would be very helpful.  Yes, I'll start out with PLA - but down the track I will certainly want to try things in PETG and ABS .. perhaps even getting more adventurous.  But I'm getting ahead of myself.


For the present, my immediate interest is in acquisition of a 3D printer.  This will be my first machine, but it does not have to be cocooned.  The ability to have broad control over operation suits my brain.  Heated bed is a must and I would want a build volume no smaller than the Ender 3.  Speed would need to be reasonable and accuracy of the motion system must not be crap.

So I invite those who have achieved success in this field to sing the praises of their favourites - and any recommendations for a supplier that can competently handle a customer in Sydney, Australia will be appreciated.  This also goes for filament.

[beanflying]

Pricing seems similar to what I paid. The best deal is not always the obvious one with Creality and a lot of Chinese sellers.

About the best deal on an Ender Pro from Creality themselves with a 'free' roll of black PLA is here eBay auction: #143029694885@ $352 AUD (so printer circa $330). Much as some debate goes on about the Pro vs Stock IMO the extras are worth it and so is the Glass Bed at some stage over the Magnetic one in particular you will need to for ABS and you are pushing the magnets fairly hard even at PETG temps.

One of the suppliers I had used for PLA a bit in Sydney seems to have dropped carrying Filament but there will be plenty @ $20-22/roll for PLA.

Re Laser Russ's videos are great. This DIY as his second build looks worth a follow too. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ72zDm2feverqV7qAbNH7Q Also maybe swing by here https://rdworkslab.com/ seems I know one of the moderators 

[Brumby]

About the best deal on an Ender Pro from Creality themselves with a 'free' roll of black PLA is here eBay auction: #143029694885@ $352 AUD (so printer circa $330).

Doesn't seem to have the glass bed.

[beanflying]

That one doesn't but for $346 (same link) you get the glass bed but no PLA so either or for about the same $. The Magnetic bed (it will still do PETG circa 70C bed) is in some ways easier to get started but I prefer the glass and the higher temps are a factor as I do a bit of PETG. There is nothing to be saved by looking overseas as by the time you get slugged GST from most platforms ex Sydney is cheaper.

[tautech]

Waddabout Banggood ?
https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-3D-Printer-and-Supplies-c-3533.html?akmClientCountry=NZ&from=nav

If you link to there from Defpom he gets a tiny cut.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2z3V9RkHQE1CvQF2iDmPqMtYvrKE73v0
Find one of his vids with some Banggood links listed below.

[beanflying]

Would finish up 10% on top of those prices which are about the same as the Creality store in Sydney. I got my first Creality printer ex China on Ali Express just before our wonderful politicians decided to collect Tax on all imports regardless of value instead of $1k+ as it had been for 15+ years. This was part of the reason I brought my Sig Gen local over a cheaper base price ex USA.

What this has done is in some ways a good thing in that Chinese online suppliers have setup local drop shipment arrangements which are in a lot of cases very close to or cheaper than ex China. Not to mention next or day after for Brumby and even 3-4 days to me.

Just checked the Bangood option btw ex Au drop shipped $330 + 10% GST so $366 for the magnetic bed option without a 'free' roll of filament.

[Brumby]

About the best deal on an Ender Pro from Creality themselves with a 'free' roll of black PLA is here eBay auction: #143029694885

Which begs the question: Just how much filament is on those rolls?  I can't find any reference to that in the listing.

[beanflying]

300m generally. 'Normal' spools of PLA are either 1 or 1.2kg (less common)

To give you an idea that split case I sent you in the goody bag a while back is just on 10m of Filament per half. So you get 15 cases per $20 roll as a rough number. The Jiffy box case is about 25m of filament so under $2 each.

These rough costs will vary with perimeter and infill ratios but 4 layers and 25% for them is what the numbers are based on.

Suggested re filaments for a first stash Black, Clear and a colour but Red or Orange maybe. White has a place but I prefer the look or the clear in nearly all use cases.

Files for the jiffy box here btw https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1838297/#msg1838297

[Brumby]

I'm doubting that for this listing.  The difference between "with" and "without" is $10 ... and they have "sample" rolls of 0.2 kg separately available for $11.60.  I'd go with those being the ones included.

I can see filament costs as something to keep an eye on.

[beanflying]

The 200g rolls are 'cute' but that is about all. As you will find even if you are to fit up a filament sensor having to change rolls mid print doesn't always go well.

Costs really are moderate this lamp shade for example was only about 30m of Filament https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1717796/#msg1717796 so even allowing for some power to run the printer well under $4 ready to install. It's the big bulky thick parts that chew up time and filament but with some playing with infill or even sculpting parts of it away if not needed for strength that can be reduced a lot.

The $0.01 cent stubbie opener back earlier in this thread I tweaked is what I run to use up scrap or end of rolls. Depending on what you finish up using it for figure out one that needs less than 10m of filament be it a kids toy etc.

[MyHeadHz]

Here's my knowledge dump for you.  Hopefully you will find some information below that is useful for you. 

Firstly, both the Ender 3 and the CR-10 that were mentioned are both good choices.

That being said, testimonials in the 3d printing world are all but useless.  A huge proportion of the issues blamed on the printer, the filaments, print quality, and overall success rate in general is operator error.  There are several major factors, but the most common ones are: improper settings (software/input), improper setup (hardware and installation), and improper maintenance (which includes moist/non-dry filament).

Someone mentioned in another thread about the Ender 3 and the CR-10.  One major difference is printable dimensions (build volume).  For the CR-10, it is 12x12x15.5 (inches).  For the Ender 3, it is 8.6x8.6x9.8 (inches).  Keep in mind that those are max dimensions, assuming that everything was set up perfectly. In reality, nothing is ever perfect (many factors come into play), so your build volume will be slightly to significantly smaller, for all practical purposes.  You should expect to get 85-95% of the stated useful dimensions, if set up properly.  Also keep in mind that you might be able to print outside of that area, but your dimensional accuracy will go down and your chances of a failed or poor quality print go up.

Size.  The Ender 3 is a nice product at a nice price, but it really limits you on build volume.  You can make up for it somewhat by printing at an angle, but sometimes that is not practical for structural rigidity of the part or other reasons.  Carefully consider what items you would and would not be able to produce into your budget for the projects.  It may be in your best interest to hold off until you can put some more into it.  The other size issue is physical size.  Look at the dimensions and take a tape measure to your desired place for it.  It needs to be sturdy and level, and big enough to work and for you to be able to adjust and work with it.  The CR-10 is significantly bigger and takes up more space.  So just do the math and measurements and pick what is best for your purposes.  It is also worth mentioning that you need to reserve that space for the printer, and and make sure you're OK with that.  Moving or re-packing it requires significant effort, and that is a pain in the butt, which discourages use of it at all. 

If you plan to use ABS, you should enclose it for best results, FYI.  You also need good ventilation, esp with ABS.

The Ender 3 is sturdier, which will allow you to print faster before getting "ghosting" (vibration/oscillation artifacts).  The CR-10 is still capable of the same great print quality, but you need to print more slowly... perhaps significantly more slowly.  That means print times that can be 2x or more vs what would be required on the smaller printer, especially with "taller" prints.

Most 3D printers, including the two mentioned above, have bowden (aka bowden tube) extruders.  There are also "direct drive" extruders.  Bowden extruders are the best option for most, but for some use cases, like flexible filaments, you need direct drive.  The main down side for direct drive extruders is a lot more weight on the print head assembly, which can cause a lot of issues.  I recommend researching it a bit to see what is best for you, but it will probably be bowden.

Setup is very important.  Your printer needs to be on a flat surface with good contact to the surface.  If anything is wobbly or vibrates, you need to fix it for best print results.  It is also important to use a level and triangle.  This will ensure that the printer dimensions are proper among the parts of the printer, and with the ground/earth.  This all ensures that when you adjust a given axis input, you are only adjusting that one dimension.

Again, a lot of the above is optimal, but not necessarily required.  Just keep in mind that the more you skimp on doing it properly, the more likely you will end of on reviews somewhere complaining about crap products. 

[CatalinaWOW]

I think MyHeadHz pretty well nails it.  I have an Ender3 with glass bed.  After a world of teething pains involving me learning how to set it up and how to keep it set up properly I am getting reliable and usable prints with regularity.  Little things like the cable routing.  On the Ender 3 if not done properly the cables can rub the bed leveling knobs, changing this critical adjustment each time you print.  This may not be limited to the Ender 3.

I will also comment that I would not obsess about build volume.  I find that the Ender 3 can print almost anything that I am willing to wait for.  Prints that use a large portion of the Ender 3s build volume take multiple days to print.  Think of what MyHeadHz's comment about the CR-10 print speed means to the time to print something using that larger volume.

There have been a few occasions where I couldn't print a thin part because of build volume limits, but so far I have been able to re design such parts as assemblies that fit within the limits.

I have used a variety of materials and so far, after initial dial in of temps and other settings have had no problems.  Including TPU, a flexible filament using the Bowden tube.  My material of choice for general parts is TPA+

[beanflying]

I agree about the Ender with volume. My CR-10S gets far less use by percentage of prints than the Enders do each. 'Most' of my Electronic bits in particular fit easily into the build volume of the Enders and much bigger and you find the limits of even the 10S bed. What I have found myself wanting occasionally is even more bed space than the 10S and I am considering looking at building an option for this with far less height than the normal 500x500xZ printers have 200 to maybe 300mm is plenty of Z for most of what I consider 'sensible' to 3D print.

This new Laser frame was actually printed on the Enders including the nearly 300mm Rails in PLA. Worked fine on the diagonal and screwed together with brass inserts. The CR-10 wouldn't have gained me anything in this case other than I could have dumped all four parts on the bed and set it running but two Enders was faster. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/40w-300x200mm-laser-cutter-engraver-vollerun/msg2405631/#msg2405631

For big flat slabs having a Laser Cutter in your toy collection is a good thing too  enable enable enable ....... 

[Brumby]

Thank you all for the input so far.

I am well acquainted with the issues of speed, temperature, bed heat, levelling, rigidity and so on.  Not how to deal with them (yet), just to understand they are factors that can drastically affect results.  You can be pretty sure I will be getting the geometry spot on for any required assembly.  I know I will only be able to fully appreciate the subtleties once I have dived in - but I believe I will find my way.  (Yes, I know - that's an invitation for Murphy.)

The Ender 3 is my most likely entry point.  Build volume will be an issue at some time in the future - but I'm content to run with the Ender 3 limitations for the time being.  After that, I'll probably head down the laser path (keeping out of the path of the laser  ).  I haven't decided if I will get a cheapie Chinese machine or dive headlong into my larger format DIY idea.  That decision is further down the track.