Apple & Customs STOLE Louis Rossmann batteries

[bd139]

I am looking at my AppleCare and proceeding to give zero fucks.

[cdev]

Dave, please consider having a Right-to-repair sub-forum.

[Richard Crowley]

I am looking at my AppleCare and proceeding to give zero fucks.

Hope you are keeping your data backed up.
'Cause you won't get it back at the Idiot Bar.

[bd139]

I know that. I use them as an exchange service only. In fact they send me a new device out next day and I send the duff one back to them.

Dumbass bar really. I buy AppleCare for the low premium. Once it’s up I will sell the hardware and invest
in new stuff. Doesn’t depreciate as much as other products. If I smash it they just replace it.

Compare other vendors where you lose it for two months.

[madires]

And another hit for independent repair shops: Apple Confirms Its T2 Security Chip Blocks Some Third-Party Repairs of New Macs (https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/12/18077166/apple-macbook-air-mac-mini-t2-chip-security-repair-replacement-tool).

[borjam]

And another hit for independent repair shops: Apple Confirms Its T2 Security Chip Blocks Some Third-Party Repairs of New Macs (https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/12/18077166/apple-macbook-air-mac-mini-t2-chip-security-repair-replacement-tool).

What about dodgy or even malicious parts?

That's a certain risk. I understand their position from that point of view.

[bd139]

Exactly.

You can either have a secure device or a flexible device, not both.

[borjam]

Exactly.

You can either have a secure device or a flexible device, not both.

Apple related doublethink at its best. 

People believe they were P0wned with extra components in the Supermicro motherboards.

Same people dismiss the risk of "extra functionality" in unofficial service shops.

[Mr. Scram]

I am looking at my AppleCare and proceeding to give zero fucks.

Does that mean that you feel that Apple should have the sole right to repair Apple goods? Or that people should either have Apple Care or replace?

The issue doesn't seem to be related to real issues with third party repair, they seem to be related to Apple attempting to corner the older device and second hand market. Just from an environmental point of view that doesn't seem to be very desirable.

[tooki]

The issue doesn't seem to be related to real issues with third party repair, they seem to be related to Apple attempting to corner the older device and second hand market. Just from an environmental point of view that doesn't seem to be very desirable.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/1/18052354/apple-repair-vintage-products-pilot-iphone-4s-5-macbook-2012

[Mr. Scram]

https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/1/18052354/apple-repair-vintage-products-pilot-iphone-4s-5-macbook-2012

Depending on how that pans out that sounds like a good move. How good will depend on pricing and parts availability, but it should definitely mitigate environmental concerns. It could mark a new course, as opposed to the outright refusal to service devices deemed too old we currently see.

Of course, it still wouldn't mean that Apple gets to corner the repair market. Third party repair should be possible and not actively prevented or surpressed. I fear that the move to repair older devices may be a move to take some wind out of the right to repair movement's sails, but whether that's the case should be apparent from the choices made in new designs and the required tools.

[bd139]

I am looking at my AppleCare and proceeding to give zero fucks.

Does that mean that you feel that Apple should have the sole right to repair Apple goods? Or that people should either have Apple Care or replace?

No but at no point does Apple have to make it easy for third party repairers for the sake of it.

There are three failure outcomes we need to consider:

1. In warranty failures. Apple are absolutely stellar compared to every other vendor I've dealt with there. Any defects they give me new hardware every time.
2. Out of warranty failures. Where you have decent consumer rights (like here in the UK) that is covered. Else suck it up or cover it with insurance.
3. In/out of warranty damage. Suck it up or cover it with insurance.

There is no place for 3rd party repair in that other than the "suck it up" option and suck it up is universally people who (a) can't afford to replace the device outright or (b) didn't take the insurance out. Lots of suckers at the moment.

Don't buy what you can't afford to replace or take insurance out to cover it.

Repair is a dying little industry like strip malls and high street retail. Look at the TV shops. All gone. This is how the market works. You either embrace progress or fight it to the death. These are the death gasps.

We are all biased here to this because we know how stuff works. That is all.

The issue doesn't seem to be related to real issues with third party repair, they seem to be related to Apple attempting to corner the older device and second hand market. Just from an environmental point of view that doesn't seem to be very desirable.

There is literally no environmental problem here. Apple are heavily investing in automated disassembly lines and recycling etc. Look for "apple daisy".

What is going to happen and is happening now is you'll subscribe to your apple hardware monthly and I have no problem with that. Everything is transient, ephemeral and the thing I need is support and cover for my tangible items.

[cdev]

They definitely are trying to take even easily fixable older machines off the market in any way they can. Often they fail because of manufacturers defects.

Thats been my personal experience, clear as a bell. Stupid gullible people let them do it, even when they don't have the money to buy another.

Smart people know not to give them an opportunity to do that. People like Louis Rossmann fill a valuable niche.

[bd139]

If it doesn't work, smash it and claim it on your household insurance!

[ebastler]

Don't buy what you can't afford to replace or take insurance out to cover it.

I agree. And would add as a corollary:

If you need to take out insurance on some consumer gadget, because you would not be able to afford replacing it -- you probably should buy something less expensive in the first place.

Insurance makes sense for high-value assets which you plan to use for many years (your house, your car maybe); and of course against health risks or liability claims which could financially break your neck. But insurance on consumer items which are essentially disposable (i.e. are typically replaced every 2..3 years) seems wrong to me.

[Mr. Scram]

No but at no point does Apple have to make it easy for third party repairers for the sake of it.

There are three failure outcomes we need to consider:

1. In warranty failures. Apple are absolutely stellar compared to every other vendor I've dealt with there. Any defects they give me new hardware every time.
2. Out of warranty failures. Where you have decent consumer rights (like here in the UK) that is covered. Else suck it up or cover it with insurance.
3. In/out of warranty damage. Suck it up or cover it with insurance.

There is no place for 3rd party repair in that other than the "suck it up" option and suck it up is universally people who (a) can't afford to replace the device outright or (b) didn't take the insurance out. Lots of suckers at the moment.

Don't buy what you can't afford to replace or take insurance out to cover it.

Repair is a dying little industry like strip malls and high street retail. Look at the TV shops. All gone. This is how the market works. You either embrace progress or fight it to the death. These are the death gasps.

We are all biased here to this because we know how stuff works. That is all.

Apple is not obligated to facilitate third party repairs, but the problem is that it seems to be actively disrupting it. John Deere does the same, with the same undesirable outcome in both cases. They both use the same excuses in regards to safety and reliability. The consumer loses out, as the cost of repair becomes unrelated to the actual cost. The free market should not only apply to choosing the product, but also to the rest of the life cycle.

The "insure or replace" line is about financial management, but has little to do with repairing goods. Repair is a sensible option. Repair will always be viable, though in what areas it is does shift indeed. Apple targeting the higher end market and selling relatively expensive devices is what makes these repairs viable in the first place. Apple actively trying to kill repairs off is something different from televisions becoming commodity goods entirely.

Finally, you may be fine with leasing consumer goods. We shouldn't pretend it's the way forward though. Repair is desirable for many practical, political and ideological reasons.

[bd139]

I accept that some things can be repaired and some things can't.

I repair a lot of things but I know what is a waste of time and money and I know how to avoid needing repairs to start with.

We all need to work that out IMHO. That's the problem.

You can repair anything you want but don't expect a helping hand. Even the best of Tektronix service manuals doesn't mean a repair is viable. I'll quite happily skip or part out a scope or something as an example.

[madires]

The issue doesn't seem to be related to real issues with third party repair, they seem to be related to Apple attempting to corner the older device and second hand market. Just from an environmental point of view that doesn't seem to be very desirable.

There is literally no environmental problem here. Apple are heavily investing in automated disassembly lines and recycling etc. Look for "apple daisy".

Apple Forces Recyclers to Shred All iPhones and MacBooks: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphones-macbooks

[Mr. Scram]

I accept that some things can be repaired and some things can't.

I repair a lot of things but I know what is a waste of time and money and I know how to avoid needing repairs to start with.

We all need to work that out IMHO. That's the problem.

You can repair anything you want but don't expect a helping hand. Even the best of Tektronix service manuals doesn't mean a repair is viable. I'll quite happily skip or part out a scope or something as an example.

Again, it's expecting a helping hand versus deliberately tying a hand behind the back of repairers. Some people will argue for the first from the viewpoint of being a responsible manufacturer, but most are just arguing the second is undesirable.

[james_s]

I'd be happy just having the information available. Want to sell in this market? Make schematics for your product available and some of the custom parts. Car manufactures have had to do exactly that for decades and they have managed, why should sellers of other products be off the hook? If a company doesn't want to play by the rules they can go out of business making room for another that can figure it out.

As far as Apple, I quite like my employer issued MacBook, despite the touchpad being absurdly huge. I would never spend my own money on such a locked down system though, especially when it requires a pile of dongles to plug anything in. The fact that they call it a "Pro" system is laughable.

[Bassman59]

As far as Apple, I quite like my employer issued MacBook, despite the touchpad being absurdly huge. I would never spend my own money on such a locked down system though

What, exactly, is "locked down" on your MacBook Pro? (I am typing this comment on one.) What did Apple do to limit what you want to do with the machine?

I quite like the trackpad -- it beats anything any of the Windows vendors use.

especially when it requires a pile of dongles to plug anything in. The fact that they call it a "Pro" system is laughable.

I bought a USB-C to Ethernet/USB 3/HDMI dongle for mine. It's really the only extra bit you need. Right now, that dongle is connected to a display, a keyboard and trackball, and the network.

I will admit that I also bought a USB-C to USB-A dongle and a USB-C to four-port USB hub. But the adapter I mentioned above gets used every day, as it lives in the office.

The TouchBar? Not interesting, and I hate how the Escape key is no longer a real key and instead it's on the Touch Bar. I guess nobody at Apple uses Emacs. The keyboard is utter crap.

[edy]

Louis just talked about lack of a mains fuse on the Weller soldering stations and gave a nice plug for Dave and EEVBlog!    Two of my favourite YouTubers! Awesome! He features Dave reading the letter he received from Weller and also encourages his viewers to check out EEVBlog: