94.5% lead solder dangers?

[Red Squirrel]

I bought some really thick solder for when I need to solder large wires together, I have a project coming up that will involve #6 and even #2 wiring (solar project) which will I figure might go better with a heat gun or torch. 

I did not realize this solder was that high in lead though as I was paying more attention to the thickness when buying as I wanted to thickest I can find. (already have thin solder for actual electronics work) . Is this something I should worry about health wise, like even when touching it?  I don't tend to be too concerned about typical 60/40 but this is quite high.  Or is lead danger in general over exaggerated? Obviously I will be doing my best not to breathe in the fumes, but is this actually getting into mask territory?

[Halcyon]

The fumes aren't your problem, just wash your hands thoroughly after handling it and don't stick it in your mouth.

[Mr. Scram]

Apparently flux fumes are the issue. The lead doesn't get hot enough to vaporise. Lead is dangerous when ingested, so be sure to prevent that. Note that washing your hands with water and soap doesn't very effectively remove lead.

[T3sl4co1l]

Oh, gosh, so, high-melting solder, almost pure lead?

Not sure why you'd need/want to solder wire with that, you can if you want to I guess.  You are much more limited on fluxes, though: rosin carbonizes rapidly at that temperature, and even acidic options start to run out (though I think zinc chloride is still fine -- if you can get it anhydrous, which is a bit more difficult however!), not that you necessarily want to use them.

Hmm, I'd be willing to bet hydrolyzed beeswax would do well.  Maybe it hydrolyzes/pyrolyzes enough as it is -- it's often suggested as a flux or cleaner of molten lead.  Seems doubtful that it would be reactive enough to clean copper metal, though.

Is that even a good idea because of insulation?  You'll burn even PTFE up there (stay out of the fumes!!), let alone anything lower-melting.  Polyimide is still okay as long as you don't dwell too long, but it makes notoriously* poor insulation in general.  That leaves... uhm, heck... fiberglass-served wire??  Good luck with that?!  (Not impossible -- silicone-impregnated fiberglass sleeving is a standard product, and high temperature thermocouple wire comes wrapped with fiberglass.)

Obviously(?), the standard approach is lugs and terminals, for all these reasons and more; I'm more curious why you aren't pursuing that approach?  (Renting a crimp tool for a few days isn't going to kill you, especially if you've already spent the money on wire that beefy!)

*Blink*, ah, so to actually answer your question: no, absolutely no risk whatsoever.  Don't lick it, don't breathe the soldering fumes (the smoke from whatever flux is put on top is both the more acute and greater hazard), and wash your hands when done.  Solid lead particles are not absorbed by the skin (you'd have to go rather out of your way to find something that is -- hmm, TEL comes to mind), and honestly even ingesting the particles isn't as high a risk as you might think -- still definitely a risk, but the retention rate for adults is surprisingly low, around 10%, meaning you need a 10x higher dose for the same risk factor (absorbed bone dose) as a child has (absorption 50-90%!).  Basically if your bones are growing, be extra careful to avoid lead; otherwise, take basic precautions like dusk mask and washing.

Tim

[coppercone2]

Look up the vapor pressure tables for lead to get an idea of whats going on when you melt it.

Cadmium is particularly nasty.

the lead you got might be for welding roofing material together (like with a gas torch, like welding with other metals), to make a water tight roof.

[Red Squirrel]

It says it's for electronics, but was definitely not my intent to get it at that high a percentage, was not paying attention there.  I'm not even sure how well it will flow tbh, I will have to play around with it I guess.   My intention is to attempt using a heat gun or torch.  I never heard of anyone using a heat gun but I imagine it will basically be like using an 1500 watt hot air rework station.   Ideally I will be able to heat the wires then touch the solder and it will melt and flow immediately but I'll see.  I've done copper soldering so I presume it will be somewhat similar.  I was going to actually use plumbing flux and solder but from what I read that's a bad idea for electrical.

[NiHaoMike]

What electronics uses high lead solder, especially with RoHS banning lead from almost all electronics?

[helius]

The primary danger of using Pb94.5Ag5.5 as an electronics solder is destroying your electronics. It has a liquidus of 364°C: does your soldering iron even go up that high?

[Red Squirrel]

This won't actually be for electronics, more high gauge electrical wiring.  Need to splice some #6 wiring longer to go from solar panels to charge controller and possibly some #2 (though for the #2 I don't think I'll need any soldering, just use lugs as it's just to go from inverter to battery)

Going to just use a heat gun, or at least that's my plan - never tried that before, I still need to buy the wiring tomorrow.  Was not able to solder it with a normal soldering iron, was just not enough wattage.  The thinner solder was just turning into balls as well, but probably due to not being able to get the wire itself hot enough.   Failing heat gun I'll try torch.  Then electrical tape (insulation will probably melt slightly too I imagine) then shrink wrap.

Open to other ideas though, just need to fuse thick wires together in a non mechanical way that will possibly be outside, so soldering seems like best plan.  Low voltage.

[Halcyon]

Note that washing your hands with water and soap doesn't very effectively remove lead.

There are special soaps such as D-Lead specifically for cleaning your hands after being in contact with lead. It's commonly used in armouries and shooting ranges. Regular cream soaps along with thorough scrubbing work just as well.

[duak]

I was curious about high lead solder and found this:

"90/10 is used in some electronics for its higher melting temperature than eutectic solder. Using 90/10 inside a component will allow the component to then be soldered into its next higher assembly (such as onto a PWB) without the worry of solder joints inside the component reflowing and creating a defect. Sometimes the reflowing of solder inside a component may be a worry, other times it is not."

I thought it might have been used in stained glass framing, but apparently not.

[georges80]

Why solder the wires? As mentioned, get decent lugs and use a crimper to make the connections. Slip some heatshrink with the meltable liner over the lug /wire connection point and you're good to go.

Crimping cables for battery lugs etc is MUCH more preferable than a solder connection, I see no reason why you aren't doing the same with this somewhat thinner gauge.

cheers,
george.

[BrianHG]

I second the use of LUGS!!! as mentioned twice above.  If you don't want to crimp, get the hex wrench screw type shown below.  For my inverter setup, I have a bunch of the single ones in 2 sizes, for 1 gauge and 2 gauge wiring.  I bolt the 2 sizes of wiring into the different lugs, then, bolt the lugs together.  This makes it easy to remove, or add new wire connections/segments in parallel or serial in the future.  0 solder, 0 heat.

[helius]

"Using 90/10 inside a component will allow the component to then be soldered into its next higher assembly (such as onto a PWB) without the worry of solder joints inside the component reflowing and creating a defect."

There are ranges of specialized alloys used for die attach bumps in flip-chip assemblies and on ceramic hybrids. They are often attached to gold pads, and contain a few percent of gold to help make a stronger bond. Common to them is a higher liquidus so that the dies cannot detach during PCB reflow.

[forrestc]

Open to other ideas though, just need to fuse thick wires together in a non mechanical way that will possibly be outside, so soldering seems like best plan.  Low voltage.

Don't solder.   You really do want a mechanical splice (as others have said).   

A split bolt is one option.   Another is a splice as shown below

 

there are also crimp connectors.

You can waterproof it either with appropriate marine heat shrink or self-fusing electrical tape.   The self-fusing tape needs some explanation - it's basically tape which when wrapped around a joint it fuses with itself to provide a waterproof layer.   There are multiple options out there.    And multiple ways to use it (some like to wrap the joint with normal tape, then fusion tape, then cover with more electrical tape - others just use it  by itself).

Of particular note on soldering:   Solder really should only be used in those cases where you can join the wires so they are electrically stable without the solder, then solder applied.   In the US, the electrical code says:  "Soldered splices shall first be spliced or joined so as to be mechanically and electrically secure without solder and then be soldered.".   The purpose of the solder is to make the already electrically and mechanically spliced wire more stable over the long term (so the twisted together wires don't work themselves loose).    The best way to think about this is to think about what happens to your joint when the solder gets hot and drips off.   The joint should be stable enough so that the solder isn't really needed.

Because of the hassle of doing all of this, mechanical splices have been developed to the point where soldering isn't required.  And for most mechanical splices isn't recommended.

[gildasd]

I have opened a few cabinets to check.

Everything in that size range has as primary holding/conducting a crimping of some kind. Everything is mechanically held.
A few connections are crimped, then soldered (with normal solder), but I imagine that is for other reasons.

I will ask the sparkies why next shift.

[forrestc]

I have opened a few cabinets to check.

Everything in that size range has as primary holding/conducting a crimping of some kind. Everything is mechanically held.
A few connections are crimped, then soldered (with normal solder), but I imagine that is for other reasons.

I will ask the sparkies why next shift.

My guess is that they'll say that a crimped/mechanical splice is almost as reliable as a good quality soldered joint, and much more reliable than a poor solder joint.   And the soldered joint takes far more time.   So it is cheaper/easier/more time efficient, and there is little real benefit to soldering.   

[Red Squirrel]

Why solder the wires? As mentioned, get decent lugs and use a crimper to make the connections. Slip some heatshrink with the meltable liner over the lug /wire connection point and you're good to go.

Crimping cables for battery lugs etc is MUCH more preferable than a solder connection, I see no reason why you aren't doing the same with this somewhat thinner gauge.

cheers,
george.

It's too extend a cable and not to connect to a terminal.  The cables I bought ended up being too short so I just need to add more length.

Some of the lugs shown here do look interesting but again this is for an inline splice, that may possibly even be outside, and I have no idea where I'd even buy those connectors.  I find anything "industrial/commercial" tends to be very hard to find. Can find the odd thing on Ebay/Amazon sometimes but even that is hit and miss. Most sites I find are also US and not Canada based so don't want to get hit with duties. 

That said if this high lead solder is a problem I'll try to order something else.  I did not notice when I ordered that it was so high.   This is the solder: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B003X3VUDM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Suppose another option is to just buy PV connectors and crimper and use those to extend the wire.

[Vtile]

I wouldn't be partially concerned if you do it with a good ventilation, of course the lead is toxic, but it is not cyanide and you are not working with it daily basis.

[Mr. Scram]

My guess is that they'll say that a crimped/mechanical splice is almost as reliable as a good quality soldered joint, and much more reliable than a poor solder joint.   And the soldered joint takes far more time.   So it is cheaper/easier/more time efficient, and there is little real benefit to soldering.

A good mechanical splice should be more reliable than a solder joint. Proper splices are as strong as the wire or cable material.

[metrologist]

Ha, this is funny because I recently acquired some 12L14 leaded steel and some concern over the lead content (0.35%) was expressed. I heard it should be welded, though. I thought that would be due to fouling, but I'm getting the impression the concern is due to lead vapors. 

[fourtytwo42]

I bought some really thick solder for when I need to solder large wires together, I have a project coming up that will involve #6 and even #2 wiring (solar project) which will I figure might go better with a heat gun or torch. 

I did not realize this solder was that high in lead though as I was paying more attention to the thickness when buying as I wanted to thickest I can find. (already have thin solder for actual electronics work) . Is this something I should worry about health wise, like even when touching it?  I don't tend to be too concerned about typical 60/40 but this is quite high.  Or is lead danger in general over exaggerated? Obviously I will be doing my best not to breathe in the fumes, but is this actually getting into mask territory?

I been snorting this stuff everyday since I was a kid! Still here on the block at 60+ so I don't think you need to worry lols Of course some say the mind has gone..........

[Mr. Scram]

Ha, this is funny because I recently acquired some 12L14 leaded steel and some concern over the lead content (0.35%) was expressed. I heard it should be welded, though. I thought that would be due to fouling, but I'm getting the impression the concern is due to lead vapors. 

Welding something is another kettle of fish. That definitely means vaporising some lead. Lead vapours are bad.

[metrologist]

Ha, this is funny because I recently acquired some 12L14 leaded steel and some concern over the lead content (0.35%) was expressed. I heard it should be welded, though. I thought that would be due to fouling, but I'm getting the impression the concern is due to lead vapors. 

Welding something is another kettle of fish. That definitely means vaporising some lead. Lead vapours are bad.

I did mean to say should not be welded. Is the health risk significantly enhanced though? Welding seems unhealthy anyway, and I also read that many steel and alloys have some lead, and possibly other bad stuff. Bronze or was it brass has several percent lead, for example.

[T3sl4co1l]

Yes-- the usual hazard in steel welding is due to manganese, leading to a Parkinsons-like condition (manganism).

I wouldn't weld 12L14 and such without good ventilation (if welding them is even recommended in the first place, unsure?).

Galvanized steel, and many bronzes (and brass, obviously), carry the risk of metal fume fever, from zinc which boils at a fairly low temperature.  You wouldn't normally weld a zinc-bearing alloy of course, but they are commonly used for brazing filler, something to be wary of there.

OP: have you checked with the local neighborhood electrical supply warehouse?  They aren't necessarily wholesale, you should be able to find one that you can phone in the order, purchase via credit card and pick up at the front desk.  You may be able to rent a crimp tool as well, otherwise use a screw lug part.  Ask for a catalog or check inventory online if they have a website.

The best solution -- the way I was taught -- if you cut the wrong length of wire, throw it out and cut it oversize, then down to size once routed.  A painful lesson at 2AWG, but that 2AWG is carrying a lot of amps that you don't want to mess around with, either, eh?

Tim