A serious (as in not troll) requestfor help w/ultrasonic transducer

[floobydust]

I watched the videos of L&R Tempo 400 in action, as the head moves through the four jars. Quite the washing machine, spin cycle included lol. No idea where the watch parts are inside the drum, I couldn't handle Rolex mech in there spinning and getting banged up it seems.
Piezos have gone lead free, berylium free.
The generator board, only need to know its freq. and tuning cap, AC voltage would help. I don't think you can get a lot more amplitude with new donuts as it's ultimately limited by the generator board, how much power it puts out. If you put Frankendonut in there, could you get 10x the agitation and wash? I don't think so.

Maybe reach out to some of these people:
https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=11059
https://www.pi-usa.us/en/products/piezo-transducers-sensing-ultrasound/piezoelectric-ceramic-rings
https://www.piceramic.com/en/products/ultrasonic-transducers/power-ultrasonic-transducers maybe the same
https://en.honda-el.co.jp/product/ceramics/lineup/piezoelectric_ceramics/pzt

A custom donut is not a big deal aside from the electrodes, they water-jet cut them. I did not look at chinese ones, they are literally $10 each.
I guess the large ID is for the motor shaft to fit through?

[watchmaker]

I watched the videos of L&R Tempo 400 in action, as the head moves through the four jars. Quite the washing machine, spin cycle included lol. No idea where the watch parts are inside the drum, I couldn't handle Rolex mech in there spinning and getting banged up it seems.
Piezos have gone lead free, berylium free.
The generator board, only need to know its freq. and tuning cap, AC voltage would help. I don't think you can get a lot more amplitude with new donuts as it's ultimately limited by the generator board, how much power it puts out. If you put Frankendonut in there, could you get 10x the agitation and wash? I don't think so.

Maybe reach out to some of these people:
https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=11059
https://www.pi-usa.us/en/products/piezo-transducers-sensing-ultrasound/piezoelectric-ceramic-rings
https://www.piceramic.com/en/products/ultrasonic-transducers/power-ultrasonic-transducers maybe the same
https://en.honda-el.co.jp/product/ceramics/lineup/piezoelectric_ceramics/pzt

A custom donut is not a big deal aside from the electrodes, they water-jet cut them. I did not look at chinese ones, they are literally $10 each.
I guess the large ID is for the motor shaft to fit through?

Damn.  THANK YOU SIR!!!  I will pass this on. 

As for mine, I just checked the capacitor array.  There are 5 orange rops in parallel; on 22000PF and 4 10000PF.  One of the 4 was 1/3 its value.  So I am replacing them all.  1.6KV.  At least the generator board is getting power and it is not one of the microswitches (which are absolutely buried).

Will find out next week I guess.

Regards,

Dewey

[watchmaker]

I watched the videos of L&R Tempo 400 in action, as the head moves through the four jars. Quite the washing machine, spin cycle included lol. No idea where the watch parts are inside the drum, I couldn't handle Rolex mech in there spinning and getting banged up it seems.
Piezos have gone lead free, berylium free.
The generator board, only need to know its freq. and tuning cap, AC voltage would help. I don't think you can get a lot more amplitude with new donuts as it's ultimately limited by the generator board, how much power it puts out. If you put Frankendonut in there, could you get 10x the agitation and wash? I don't think so.

Maybe reach out to some of these people:
https://www.thorlabs.com/newgrouppage9.cfm?objectgroup_id=11059
https://www.pi-usa.us/en/products/piezo-transducers-sensing-ultrasound/piezoelectric-ceramic-rings
https://www.piceramic.com/en/products/ultrasonic-transducers/power-ultrasonic-transducers maybe the same
https://en.honda-el.co.jp/product/ceramics/lineup/piezoelectric_ceramics/pzt

A custom donut is not a big deal aside from the electrodes, they water-jet cut them. I did not look at chinese ones, they are literally $10 each.
I guess the large ID is for the motor shaft to fit through?

As to your questions, the parts are in a mesh basket which contains smaller mesh baskets.  For pieces w/ shock jewelling, we remove the cap jewels and insetting (the hole jewel w/ bushing) and leave the balance in the movement.  We leave the setting lock spring in its seat. This is the safest and has never failed me.

The basket is at the end of the motor arbor which passes through the can tube in the transducer can.  The tansducer is a two piece assembly.  The lid which attaches to the motor housing and the can which contains the donut.  The can is a press fit with an oring to keep solutions out should you overfill your jars.  The solution should only come 1/2 way up the can when the basket and motor assembly are lowered into the jars.

The cleaning system has not changed in 50 years.  Only the cost of new machines.

BTW, I owe you.  And I am serious.

[floobydust]

I'll be happy if you find something that can extend the life of these machines. I just want success for people's endeavors here, nothing owed lol.

Engineering used to be about problem solving, figuring it out. Like doing a crossword puzzle. You never worried, just kept chipping away and learning. Some searching, the right keywords and I can somewhat understand the machine enough to help a bit. Physics, MecE, EE (multidiscipline) knowledge needed for this Tempo make it difficult.

Today, young engineers literally have a panic attack if they don't know something. There seems to be a stigma with "not knowing", even in business and management. I find it funny, being free of such worry. Electronics gives a constant humiliation for those types of people, the "know it all" types especially.
If you don't know enough, then ask - I've learned to reach out to manufacturers and sometimes they have great expertise.

[watchmaker]

Floobydust,

I know what you mean.  A couple years ago I had a call from a BAE Sr. Scientist with a broken detent in his marine chronometer.  Said his team was unable to come up with a plan to make one.  Two hundred years ago these were made by a couple families in Lancaster UK working by lamplight and to go/no no gauges.  I filed and polished them by hand in a swing tool.

But since it was "impossible" to program on CNC (toward the end I milled out the rough blanks on a Sherline), the "kids" were flummoxed.

I think growing up with smart phones has something to do with it.  When we were kids, if we got jammed up we had to figure it out (age appropriate trouble to get into and resolve).  Today kids do not practice problem solving skills beyond figuring out what search terms to use.

Over statement I agree.  But even medical schools are complaining.

Making mistakes while growing up is highly under valued!

[IanB]

Two hundred years ago these were made by a couple families in Lancaster UK working by lamplight and to go/no no gauges.

I rather suspect that they worked by daylight, and when it got dark they shut up shop and did something else, but that's just a guess 

In the days before mass production, I think every part was made by hand, even individual screws.

If you have not seen Clickspring on YouTube, he (Chris) has recently been attempting to recreate the manufacturing methods used by the ancients 2000 years ago to construct intricate mechanisms. It's fascinating what smart minds were able to do with limited resources.

[watchmaker]

i will look him up.

The workers who made parts were not considered craftsmen.  They worked in their homes and in the UK and in that period interior lighting was highly dependent on the sun, and daylight hours are more limited than in most of the USA.  This fact even draws into question many battle accounts, especially in Scotland which is even further north.

A lot of work (such as making fusee chains; 1/100th scale bicycle chains) was poor house work.

In chronometers, a "maker" such as Mercer would make the rounds and collect screws, detents, pinions, jewels wetc from people who had no idea what the parts they made were to be used in.  Then the parts would be assembled and finished into a working chronometer.  The "art" was all in the balance assembly and balance spring.  It could take a year before it was ready for trials at Kew.

Early on, jewel making was a national secret.  I think it held for 25 years or so.

[soldar]

I rather suspect that they worked by daylight, and when it got dark they shut up shop and did something else, but that's just a guess 

After dark they made babies so as to have a replacement generation in some years.

Unfortunately, with Netflix, social platforms, etc. , the art of making babies is becoming a thing of the past and I hear they even have to explain it in schools. And still, birth rates keep falling.

[watchmaker]

I'll be happy if you find something that can extend the life of these machines. I just want success for people's endeavors here, nothing owed lol.

Engineering used to be about problem solving, figuring it out. Like doing a crossword puzzle. You never worried, just kept chipping away and learning. Some searching, the right keywords and I can somewhat understand the machine enough to help a bit. Physics, MecE, EE (multidiscipline) knowledge needed for this Tempo make it difficult.

Today, young engineers literally have a panic attack if they don't know something. There seems to be a stigma with "not knowing", even in business and management. I find it funny, being free of such worry. Electronics gives a constant humiliation for those types of people, the "know it all" types especially.
If you don't know enough, then ask - I've learned to reach out to manufacturers and sometimes they have great expertise.

I am so frigging tired of people who WANT to fail.  So I passed on your post to both of the service businesses; the one responded saying emphatically that you cannot buy donuts!  Have not heard back from the person who actually bought all of L&Rs inventory.  He is likely much more confident.

That is what people told me before I had all the breakable parts for the Hamiltn M21 made and 100s of mainsprings for my bread and butter aircraft clocks.  Paid those back 5 times over in the last 30 years.

Most people are too damned timid to seize an opportunity.  They say "no" when a life altering adventure is right in front of them.  In all my years, I have encountered very few ventures or adventures where saying "yes" resulted in my death.  Most of my regrets involve saying "no".

Fortune favors the bold.  While the meek may inherit the earth, nothing was said about the timid!

[IanB]

There is a revelation that came to me somewhat late in life.

As a child, whenever I needed a widget for some project I might be working on, I would think "Where can I buy such a widget?" Only later, did it become apparent to me that if you need a one-off widget of a particular size and dimension, well maybe you could make it. For me, it was like, "Oh...you can make a thing? You don't always have to buy it?"

[watchmaker]

I GOT BUBBLES!!!

It was the capacitor array.  I say it cost $35; my wife sez it cost at least $5K to repair.