About Kung Long sealed lead acid batteries

[sainter]

Hi,

My company just bought an on-line APC UPS, to my surprise it came with Kung Long (non APC genuine) batteries. I contacted APC thinking that re seller  might have changed the battery pack (because the sticker for battery compartment door was damaged), but APC replied, that Kung Long is a provider for APC.

Did anyone have seen some comparison of Kung long vs APC branded batteries? Whats your opinion, are the Kung Long batteries as good or worse then the one APC used till now?

Thank you
 

[Psi]

Have a look how much it costs to buy Kung Long batteries at a few places and compare that price to known good batteries.
That will give you a very good idea on their quality.

[mtdoc]

As long as they're Kung Long and not Hung Long you should be ok..

Ok, sorry. No, I have no idea...

[Red Squirrel]

On similar subject, when replacing with new batteries I always buy from a local electrical supply house that also sells various sizes of batteries.  I pay about $20-$30 instead of the outrageous $100-$200+ that APC wants and since it's local I don't pay shipping, which would probably cost quite a lot from the states on something that heavy.    I could be wrong, but I suspect there's only a few major companies that make these and most are all re-badges anyway.

[sainter]

When changing batteries on old UPS, I only use non APC ones. But when buying , I have an option to choose best bang for the buck, usually I choose mid range quality ones, without extended life (not 5 y. ones but 3 year life). But i suspect that APC branded ones are extended life, because first life of batteries (when it comes with APC lead acid) is much longer then after the change.

I just started seeing these Kung Long ones, so I will only know what's there longevity after some time (2-4 years ). And I can not find any concrete data about battery life expectancy.

[Muttley Snickers]

Some batteries are better suited for UPS usage than others.

We purchased a lot of 50 Neuton Power (re-branded generic) and I replaced the batteries in a 800 watt APC UPS with these batteries and a few months later was suffering horrendous headaches when ever I was in the office on the computer for any length of time.

One day whilst vacuuming under the desk alongside the UPS the carpet all fell apart, it turned out that these 7 amp hour batteries were venting toxic fumes and leaking wet acid all over the place.

We had used a few of these out on various jobs but the rest went back to the supplier. From then on we only used Yuasa batteries and I also have drip trays under every UPS, we havent had a problem since.

Edit: Grammer

[sainter]

I have nothing against Taiwan, I use CSB  batteries (some are produced there). But juts saying, that it's very interesting that APC started putting Kung Long ( a company without a known track record) to it's high end product line.

BTW, i never had any leaks with replacement batteries, few times charging circuitry was faulty so they got overcharged, but they just swollen up without leaking.

[madires]

My company just bought an on-line APC UPS, to my surprise it came with Kung Long (non APC genuine) batteries. I contacted APC thinking that re seller  might have changed the battery pack (because the sticker for battery compartment door was damaged), but APC replied, that Kung Long is a provider for APC.

Did anyone have seen some comparison of Kung long vs APC branded batteries? Whats your opinion, are the Kung Long batteries as good or worse then the one APC used till now?

Nice, APC buys inexpensive Kung Long batteries and sells them for 300%. It's expensive, so it has to be good. No thanks! I use Panasonic batteries for replacement und in most cases they last about 5 years while being much cheaper than the APC battery packs. From what I heard Kung Long seems to be fine too, especially when APC buys them also Anyone with first hand experience with Kung Long batteries?

[Psi]

  I pay about $20-$30 instead of the outrageous $100-$200+ that APC wants

It's been my experience that the $20 SLA's last about 1-2years max, at that point they are stuffed.
The $100 ones last 4-5 years.

[sainter]

From personal experience: 20$ batteries are good for at least 3 years.  30$ ones (extended life) have to be changed after 4-5 years. 100$ batteries (if we are talking about 12v 7.2Ah) are too expensive to make sense. Better spend more on good UPS then on overpriced batteries IMO. Btw, can't find any info on APC forum about the change in battery they use. I would think that changing something like this, should be announced.

Most interesting to know, do they use Kung Long for all the markets or just for product going to my country (and other same countries), because it's common practice to  supply lover quality products to Baltic countries (like Lithuania) for the same price.

Could people who buy APC product check what are they getting and post here ?

[BradC]

It's been my experience that the $20 SLA's last about 1-2years max, at that point they are stuffed.
The $100 ones last 4-5 years.

You are paying too much. Last set of genuine CSB's I bought were less than $30 a piece.
I've got loads of cheap SLA's. Most around $10-$15 a pop for the 7.5AH, but I would not put a heavy load on them. The 7.2AH CSB's work great in the UPS and will comfortably start a 6.5hp Honda.

[madires]

Ok, let's check local prices:
- Panansonic LC-R127R2PG  EUR 19,50
- Kung Long WP 7,2-12 EUR 13,50
- APC RBC2 EUR 42,00

[Neganur]

unfortunately I recycled my dead pair of APC batteries so I can't post any pictures, but APC batteries are also just relabelled (usually Panasonic).
I've used 2x a pair of Long batteries (7.2 Ah, 22 mOhm) over the last uh... 5 years I think. (yep first pair November 2010, second pair April 2013).
The UPS is a Smart-UPS 700 (SU 700INET).

They cost 13.60 EUR each and the alternatives were:

29.55 - EUR single Panasonic UP-VW 1245P1 (9 Ah, 20 mOhm)
42.50 - EUR an APC RBC 5 pack consisting of 2x Panasonic

unfortunately the local store here does not carry RBC 5, but genuine (i.e. APC labels) RBC 2 cost 53.90 EUR a piece (one RBC 5 consists of 2x RBC 2).

The official website claims 3-5 years expected battery life.
I see no problem with buying new Long batteries every 2-3 years.

[wraper]

I never seen that APC UPS would come with APC branded batteries inside. What I've seen inside were Kung Long, CSB, and something I don't remember.
Edit: probably there were APC sticker somewhere but I don't remember for sure. Last time I opened such more than a year ago. Also I consider APC UPS as junk. They often use crap batteries, including Kung Long which failed in 2 years IIRC. They use crap capacitors and relays too, Eaton and Riello are order of magnitude more reliable.

[wraper]

Here is APC branded Kung Long:

[ciccio]

I replaced batteries in some APC 700 units, about 5 years old (I don't know for how long they worked with degraded batteries, but "battery fail" LED was still off).
They were labeled APC, not with a sticker over another company's name, but with APC screen printed on the battery body.
I searched for some YUASA replacements, but my supplier does not stock them anymore (too expensive) and he gave me some cheap batteries made in Vietnam. They lasted 3 months....

Best regards

[Neganur]

the batteries have to be low esr, the other cheap ones with 40 mOhm dont last as they heat up too much

[ConKbot]

the batteries have to be low esr, the other cheap ones with 40 mOhm dont last as they heat up too much

+1 to that, UPS replacement batteries can be a real pain to find suitable ones.  "Meets or exceeds OEM specs"    always take with a grain of salt. 

for example, the BB battery HR9-12 (8AH, 12v, typical UPS size) http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/HR/HR9-12.pdf  can do ~43A for 5 minutes to 1.6v/cell,  another battery by the same manufacturer, not optimized for high rate usage the BP8-12 (12v 8 AH also) http://www.bb-battery.com/productpages/BP/BP8-12.pdf can only do 35A for 5 minutes to 1.6V/cell

Looking at constant wattage (which not all battery datasheets have), makes it even easier to compare as you can go right to watt hours.  The high rate battery can do ~40WH in a 5 minute to 1.6v/cell discharge, ~32WH for the general purpose BP battery, 25% more runtime.  And thats 15mOhm vs 25mOhm internal resistance.  40mOhm would practically fall on its face if you tried to do a 5 minute discharge.

If you cant find a datasheet on the batteries, I'd  be leery on buying it.

The kung long WP7.5-12, which is the same physical size as the above 2 batteries, lists 19 mOhm, 30.2 WH  in a 5 minute to 1.6v/cell discharge, and 35.6A  in a 5 minute to 1.6v/cell discharge, so its performing no better than BB's general purpose battery of the same physical size. 

[Red Squirrel]

I also read somewhere (but never tested to verify so it could be false info) that APC tends to float batteries a bit higher than it should.  This causes extra stress and lower life on the battery, but a bit better run time when it does have to discharge.

For my sever stuff I actually switched to an inverter-charger (Tripp Lite) and 4 100AH flooded batteries.  Works great and I get about 4 hours of run time.  I could probably go longer but I like to start shutting stuff down when it hits 11 volts so not run the batteries too low.   Those Canadian Tire batteries are chaper per amp hour and still are half decent quality.  It's kind of funny to open the UPS battery cabinet and see Motomaster batteries lol.

I have two batteries that are 2-3 years old in one of my UPSes but the UPS itself finally bit the dust, it was a really old one.  I'll probably re purpose the batteries for something else as they're still good.

[sainter]

Also I consider APC UPS as junk. They often use crap batteries, including Kung Long which failed in 2 years IIRC. They use crap capacitors and relays too, Eaton and Riello are order of magnitude more reliable.

Up to this day, I had good experience with APC UPS, currently I have 6 broken ones (BK350-BK500 models), most of them are 10-13 year old, and they are running on factory floor where power fluctuations are significant. But something is changing with APC products, I thing, It would be interesting to try Eaton or Riello if they are accessible in my region.

[Psi]

I was referring to the 12V 18/20Ah SLAs

[rdl]

I got rid of a few APC units a year or so ago. They were pretty old - some from as far back as 1998. I still have 4 of the batteries sitting on a shelf. One is a Panasonic, one is an Exide and two were labeled CS3. A couple had APC stickers, but the actual brand was easy to see.