Author Topic: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!  (Read 12652 times)

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Offline Kilrah

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2017, 05:18:25 pm »
I've used the Polaroid batteries too!

Not so much the AAs from disposable cams though - for those I had another very prolific source, namely occasionally working for a theatre that used a lot of wireless microphones - and rule #1 in that world is you change the batteries for every performance even if they're normally still 80% full becasue you never know who might have left their mic powered for who knows how many hours either before or after the show.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2017, 05:56:59 pm »
Ah yes, the PolaPulse batteries, I remember those. They could deliver very high current due to the flat construction with high surface area. Plenty of energy left in them in most cases after the film was expended.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2017, 01:22:01 am »
Woah with that many flash capacitors you need to put them all in parallel.  ;D

Interesting that the caps are specifically for flash, are they basically just lower ESR?  I'm actually surprised they're Rubycon and not some kind of Wun Hun Lo brand.

Crazy to think how wasteful those cameras were though, when you consider the re-usability of digital cameras or even regular film cameras that you could reload.  I recall using a few myself on a school trip. Their advantage was cost if you don't take much pictures, though as even a regular film camera was rather expensive.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2017, 03:51:20 am »
Another potential source of good lightly used batteries are retirement homes. My brother used to work maintenance at one and they were required by law apparently to replace the batteries in all of the smoke alarms annually even though they were primarily line powered. This meant a box of ~380 lightly used 9V batteries every year. Unfortunately more than half the ones I had went bad and leaked over time, it's hard to use that many batteries.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2017, 04:25:45 pm »
And now you see the value in Harbor Freight DMMs.  As a meter they are meh!  But it is a free 9V battery.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2017, 05:49:05 pm »
Is it even an alkaline?

I have one of those meters, I keep it in the emergency kit in my car. It's no Fluke but it does work about as well as my very first DMM which was quite expensive when I got it back in the early 90s. Good enough for diagnosing electrical problems if I break down somewhere or come across someone else who has.
 

Offline t_ryner

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2017, 04:37:06 am »
 If you use the flash on a receipt, it can sometimes burn wherever there's ink. Tomorrow I plan on making a run over to goodwill to buy a few misc. electronics. I'll see if they have any antique multimeters (I've seen them there before) or things that are worth buying for reverse engineering. I'll also buy a new film camera to see how it compares to the older ones you posted.
 

Offline t_ryner

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2017, 04:44:19 am »
I think there's some regulations requiring the replacement of all the alarm batteries in a situation like that (ex., assisted living, medical complex, etc). The battery provides backup power, but I was wondering whether or not a modernized design could be run off of supercaps. It would reduce the requirement/risk of faulty batteries, and prevent unnecessary waste. Battery companies wouldn't like that though!
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2017, 05:41:56 am »
I don't think a partial impact to one niche of the battery companies' market is going to worry them a lot.

There are batteries everywhere.
 

Offline john_c

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2017, 06:01:58 am »
Any project suggestions?

Wow, you have a lot of capacitors there. My suggestion for a project: shrink dimes. If you get good at that, you can try shrinking quarters!

Google it - it's a great pastime for those with proper safety knowledge and access to very high C values. ;)
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2017, 07:19:26 am »
My access to US coinage is rather limited - and trying such things on Australian currency is illegal.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2017, 06:10:05 pm »
Build a rail gun and send currency to the moon instead.   
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2017, 06:20:47 pm »
Technically it's illegal to damage US currency also, and I suspect that's the case in most nations. Realistically though the FBI is not going to haul you off for shrinking a few coins. As long as you are not counterfeiting or buying up large quantities of coins and melting them down for the metal nobody is going to bother you.
 

Offline timb

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2017, 11:55:11 pm »
Technically it's illegal to damage US currency also, and I suspect that's the case in most nations. Realistically though the FBI is not going to haul you off for shrinking a few coins. As long as you are not counterfeiting or buying up large quantities of coins and melting them down for the metal nobody is going to bother you.

Exactly. Otherwise, there wouldn't be those "Penny Squasher" machines you see occasionally in stores. (You put a penny in and turn a crank, which is connected to some gears and a series of rollers. The penny comes out completely squashed and elongated.)
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic; e.g., Cheez Whiz, Hot Dogs and RF.
 

Online Ian.M

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Offline Brumby

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2017, 01:00:59 am »
That seems to limit the illegal nature to ones where fraud is involved.  A sensible approach, IMO.  That the line is drawn at the point of offering such coin as legal tender for purchase, seems a reasonably clear one.  So, as I read it, a defaced coin offered as an object - and not legal tender - is OK.

However, in Australia, no such provisions exist.  From the Royal Australian Mint:

https://www.ramint.gov.au/using-coin-designs

This page contains general information about the legal restrictions which apply to the use of Australian currency coins and the reproduction of coin images and designs. The information in this page is provided as a general guide and should not be relied on as a form of legal advice.

Defacing, destroying or altering Australian currency coins

It is a criminal offence under the Crimes (Currency) Act 1981 (Cth) to deface or destroy current Australian currency coins. It is also an offence to sell or possess current coins that have been defaced. Defacing a coin includes coating the surface of the money with any sort of material. The penalty for defacing coins, or selling or possessing money that has been defaced, is $5,000 or imprisonment for two years for an individual (or both), and $10,000 for a body corporate. You may also be guilty of the offence of making counterfeit money if you alter a genuine coin.

The destruction or alteration of designs used on coins may also infringe the right of the author of the design not to have an artistic work subject to derogatory treatment. The author's rights to 'integrity of authorship' are protected under the Copyright Act 1968 (Cth). If you do something in relation to an artistic work that is prejudicial to the author's honour or reputation, a court can order you to stop the infringing conduct, make a public apology, or pay damages to the artist.


So, not only are we not allowed to damage a coin as Commonwealth Property for ANY intent, but we could even fall foul of Copyright.  That seems pretty black and white.


OK - so coin zapping on Australian currency is off the table .... any other project ideas?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 01:02:30 am by Brumby »
 

Offline helius

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2017, 01:22:53 am »
Has a Marx Bank already been suggested? I seem to recall some very large spark towers from down under, wish I could remember the url.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2017, 01:24:54 am »
Not really illegal in Canada either, but discouraged. They'll ask you nicely to stop, as is tradition.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/canada-star-trek-fans-stop-spocking-money-article-1.2135912

 
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Online blueskull

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2017, 09:17:41 am »
Technically it's illegal to damage US currency also, and I suspect that's the case in most nations. Realistically though the FBI is not going to haul you off for shrinking a few coins. As long as you are not counterfeiting or buying up large quantities of coins and melting them down for the metal nobody is going to bother you.

I believe shrinking US coins is LEGITIMATE, but destroying coins for the metal is not.
At least this is what the owners of coil shrinkers (at an attraction somewhere in RI) told me, and he has a sign board over there referring some US laws to back up his point.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2017, 04:05:01 pm »
Is it legal to give/sell Australian coins to someone else? What if you were to send a few dollars worth of coins to somebody in the US and that person decided to shrink, melt or otherwise damage the coins? Are they going to be dragged over to Australia for punishment?

Really though, I suspect the law is one of those things that is on the books to enable punishment in extreme cases but I really doubt it's enforced. I mean can you find a single case of someone getting arrested and fined for smashing, painting or otherwise deliberately damaging a few pennies? Maybe they really are unreasonable and heavy handed there but it seems unlikely given the general personality of most of the Australians I've known.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #45 on: May 06, 2017, 08:02:23 pm »
Obviously something for "mass damaging" indeed. Often coins, especially low value ones tend to cost more to make than their face value... by destroying them you're costing the state money, simple as.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #46 on: May 06, 2017, 08:31:52 pm »
Obviously something for "mass damaging" indeed. Often coins, especially low value ones tend to cost more to make than their face value... by destroying them you're costing the state money, simple as.

That was one of the reasons they got rid of the penny here.   It cost more than a penny to make one.

Really they need to change the way sales taxes work, they should be part of the final price.  Stores could charge even amounts for stuff and what you see is what you pay.  Could pretty much get rid of nickels and dimes too.  Not sure how it would work for natives that have status cards though, could just round to the closest 25 cents when deducting the tax from the price. 
 

Offline john_c

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #47 on: May 06, 2017, 10:39:44 pm »
So, not only are we not allowed to damage a coin as Commonwealth Property for ANY intent, but we could even fall foul of Copyright.  That seems pretty black and white.


OK - so coin zapping on Australian currency is off the table .... any other project ideas?

That makes sense, given that they all portray Queen Elizabeth II. Here, it would be George Washington and FDR, both long dead. Using a metal stamped with something familiar helps to see the result of the experiment, as I understand it. And I think the dime and quarter have basically suitable size and metal composition for getting good EM induction, as I recall.

Other projects that use high currents in short pulses? Well, I wouldn't recommend converting it to RF. Your local hams will be none to pleased about that. Besides, if you make it big enough it will be dangerous to nearby electronics. Such devices are produced, that can from a distance disable cars with electronic ignition even.

You could go kinetic. Time honored route. Not for everybody.

Maybe light? You could scrounge for gas discharge tubes used in stadium lighting, or something like that. Then see if you light it for 1 second!
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2017, 05:54:32 pm »
That was one of the reasons they got rid of the penny here.   It cost more than a penny to make one.

Really they need to change the way sales taxes work, they should be part of the final price.  Stores could charge even amounts for stuff and what you see is what you pay.  Could pretty much get rid of nickels and dimes too.  Not sure how it would work for natives that have status cards though, could just round to the closest 25 cents when deducting the tax from the price.

There have been efforts to do the same in the US, but unfortunately they have not been as successful as in Canada. I can understand the nostalgia of the penny but it really is a pointless denomination these days. When I was a kid you could actually buy a gumball from a dispenser in the mall for a penny but it's been a long time since you could go buy anything that I'm aware of. I mean I guess you could get a few 0603 resistors for a penny but you'd probably have to buy hundreds of them to get that price. Some fret that without pennies prices will all be rounded up and it will add up, ok that's true, but then why not have 1/10th pennies because even now prices are rounded up. All the gas stations sell fuel with that stupid 9/10th cent, it's stupid.

I also completely agree that taxes should all be rolled into the price printed on the shelves in stores, it would make it so much easier to just show the price out the door and then for situations where one is tax exempt it could have the details in small text on the tag showing how much of the displayed price is tax. Same for tips in restaurants, I absolutely hate tipping, I do it anyway because that's how the wage structure is set up but seriously, if it's expected to tip, just roll it into the menu prices and pay the staff accordingly. Don't make me guess how much I should pay.
 

Offline t_ryner

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #49 on: May 10, 2017, 04:12:12 am »
According to the laws in the US- It's OK to destroy a penny- as long as you are not going to try and spend it. The keywords in the law concerning that is "fraudulent intent". I doubt the secret penny police will gulag you over the destruction of our smallest currency.
 


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