Author Topic: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!  (Read 12672 times)

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Offline t_ryner

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #50 on: May 10, 2017, 04:20:06 am »
That was one of the reasons they got rid of the penny here.   It cost more than a penny to make one.

Really they need to change the way sales taxes work, they should be part of the final price.  Stores could charge even amounts for stuff and what you see is what you pay.  Could pretty much get rid of nickels and dimes too.  Not sure how it would work for natives that have status cards though, could just round to the closest 25 cents when deducting the tax from the price.

There have been efforts to do the same in the US, but unfortunately they have not been as successful as in Canada. I can understand the nostalgia of the penny but it really is a pointless denomination these days. When I was a kid you could actually buy a gumball from a dispenser in the mall for a penny but it's been a long time since you could go buy anything that I'm aware of. I mean I guess you could get a few 0603 resistors for a penny but you'd probably have to buy hundreds of them to get that price. Some fret that without pennies prices will all be rounded up and it will add up, ok that's true, but then why not have 1/10th pennies because even now prices are rounded up. All the gas stations sell fuel with that stupid 9/10th cent, it's stupid.

I also completely agree that taxes should all be rolled into the price printed on the shelves in stores, it would make it so much easier to just show the price out the door and then for situations where one is tax exempt it could have the details in small text on the tag showing how much of the displayed price is tax. Same for tips in restaurants, I absolutely hate tipping, I do it anyway because that's how the wage structure is set up but seriously, if it's expected to tip, just roll it into the menu prices and pay the staff accordingly. Don't make me guess how much I should pay.

So many people pay in debt or credit that hard change might eventually be phased out (in the long run). you made a good point- why don't people argue for tenth cent coins for gas? The card is definitely the future. Not as satisfying as a handful of cash though.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #51 on: May 10, 2017, 04:26:54 am »
Is it legal to give/sell Australian coins to someone else? What if you were to send a few dollars worth of coins to somebody in the US and that person decided to shrink, melt or otherwise damage the coins? Are they going to be dragged over to Australia for punishment?

Really though, I suspect the law is one of those things that is on the books to enable punishment in extreme cases but I really doubt it's enforced. I mean can you find a single case of someone getting arrested and fined for smashing, painting or otherwise deliberately damaging a few pennies? Maybe they really are unreasonable and heavy handed there but it seems unlikely given the general personality of most of the Australians I've known.

Giving them to someone else isn't a problem in itself.  I don't know if knowing their intention beforehand would constitute an offence.

Certainly, I have not heard of any cases where such an offender has been prosecuted - but that doesn't mean there hasn't been any.  While the law in place allows for any level of defacing, I am inclined to believe that the odd coin or three isn't going to ruffle too many feathers - but the nature of the legislation pretty much cuts off any attempts to "skirt the edge".

My interpretation is "do it at your own risk", but you would be reasonably OK with zapping a few for personal use ... but I just wouldn't do it in the first place.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #52 on: May 10, 2017, 04:39:42 am »
That was one of the reasons they got rid of the penny here.   It cost more than a penny to make one.

Really they need to change the way sales taxes work, they should be part of the final price.  Stores could charge even amounts for stuff and what you see is what you pay.  Could pretty much get rid of nickels and dimes too.  Not sure how it would work for natives that have status cards though, could just round to the closest 25 cents when deducting the tax from the price.

There have been efforts to do the same in the US, but unfortunately they have not been as successful as in Canada. I can understand the nostalgia of the penny but it really is a pointless denomination these days. When I was a kid you could actually buy a gumball from a dispenser in the mall for a penny but it's been a long time since you could go buy anything that I'm aware of. I mean I guess you could get a few 0603 resistors for a penny but you'd probably have to buy hundreds of them to get that price.
In Australia, they pulled the 1 and 2 cent coins from circulation in 1992 - and the 5 cent is being talked about in the same way.

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Some fret that without pennies prices will all be rounded up and it will add up, ok that's true, but then why not have 1/10th pennies because even now prices are rounded up. All the gas stations sell fuel with that stupid 9/10th cent, it's stupid.
Swings and roundabouts.

With 5 cents being the smallest increment when paying by cash in Australia, the rounding rules have been operating ever since 1992.  It's quite simple.  Rounding goes either up or down - to the closest 5 cents.  For example: 58c and 59c are rounded to 60c - just as 61c and 62c are rounded down to 60c.  63c goes up to 65c and so on.  When paying by card, however, the actual cents are used.

As for selling fuel with prices to 1 decimal place - I don't see any problem with that at all.  It's just a RATE at which a product is sold in bulk.  The only thing that matters is the total on the pump.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #53 on: May 10, 2017, 08:08:20 am »
Well the rounding makes sense to me, but that doesn't stop people from arguing about it. As George Carlin said, a lot of people are #%&ing stupid.

The 10th cent thing on gasoline is just dumb, I mean why do it? The *only* reason is that it's a psychological trick that makes a gallon look cheaper. No other consumer product that I can think of is priced down to 0.1 cent. I mean if you're going to go that far, why not charge $2.839250843/gal? What if I buy just one gallon? Can I have my 0.1 cent back?
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #54 on: May 10, 2017, 10:55:55 am »
You don't want to try any foreign currency conversion, then.

The 10th cent thing on gasoline is just dumb, I mean why do it? The *only* reason is that it's a psychological trick that makes a gallon look cheaper.

There's nothing psychological about two fuel retailers offering petrol for 135.9c/litre and 135.5c/litre.  The difference is real.  Buy 100litres and you'll save 40 cents with the cheaper price.  Those tenths of a cent become significant when they get multiplied out.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 11:04:03 am by Brumby »
 

Offline helius

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2017, 01:30:55 pm »
At gas ("petrol") stations in the US, the price is always plus 9/10 of a cent. That tenths figure is never anything except 9: the digital price signs that you can see from the highway are not physically capable of showing any other digit there.
Like many things I expect it is historical. I remember when the stocks pages in the newspaper quoted prices in fractions: $1.56 3/4 etc.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 01:32:31 pm by helius »
 

Offline yada

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2017, 02:39:49 pm »
:-\ I guess arcs aren't a good word to describe them. The 90 volts were only resulting from passing a pulse through a transformer. I'll try to get measurement for the voltage. Speaking of flyback transformers, passing 12v through one of the coils in the flyback resulted in a 1cm spark (eventually).

I thought you needed one of those big metal power transistors to make that work. I remember taking a flyback out of a computer monitor that my brothers friend (probably) wasn't using only to find out it wouldn't work without a pretty expensive transistor that will probably soon burn out. Also turns out that he was using it and was pretty pissed. I explained to him that it would work without it and they often put in extra parts like they did with transistor (5 transistors, then 6 then 7 then...) radios. Because more equals more better. You should see a 100 transistor radio! He took me seriously and plugged the remains back in.  Unfortunately it popped the breaker before any cool smoke came out. Guess it needed that part.
 

Offline jimdeane

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #57 on: May 10, 2017, 04:31:22 pm »
Reminds me of the later Polaroid cameras - the kind that you just watched the photo develop, not teh old ones where you waited and then peeled the picture off the backer. The film cartridges for those used a flat pack 6V battery that had PLENTY of life left in it after the film was used, I used to snag up as many of those as I could. After a while they went with a smaller battery - same size cardboard carrier to the same dimensions as the film, but the bulge int he middle where the cells were was smaller - even THOSE had decent life left after the film was used. Everyone was gunning for the empties though - there as an article by Forrest Mims in Popular Electronics about how useful this battery was because of the cost and the form factor

My first "hacking" experience in my memory is my dad teaching me how to make a flashlight from one of those Polaroid battery packs, a couple of pieces of aluminum foil (or gum wrapper), tape, and a flashlight bulb.  It was so cool to take that camping. Not only a flashlight, but one I MADE.

I'll have to thank him for that, it might have been the spark for my interests.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #58 on: May 10, 2017, 05:41:42 pm »
Reminds me of the later Polaroid cameras - the kind that you just watched the photo develop, not teh old ones where you waited and then peeled the picture off the backer. The film cartridges for those used a flat pack 6V battery that had PLENTY of life left in it after the film was used, I used to snag up as many of those as I could. After a while they went with a smaller battery - same size cardboard carrier to the same dimensions as the film, but the bulge int he middle where the cells were was smaller - even THOSE had decent life left after the film was used. Everyone was gunning for the empties though - there as an article by Forrest Mims in Popular Electronics about how useful this battery was because of the cost and the form factor

My first "hacking" experience in my memory is my dad teaching me how to make a flashlight from one of those Polaroid battery packs, a couple of pieces of aluminum foil (or gum wrapper), tape, and a flashlight bulb.  It was so cool to take that camping. Not only a flashlight, but one I MADE.

I'll have to thank him for that, it might have been the spark for my interests.

Actually that's kind of what got my interest in electricity too, my grandpa showed me using batteries a wire and a light bulb and I thought it was the coolest thing.   Decide to try the same with a household bulb and the socket and it worked.  "unlimited free power!"    Got my first 120v shock at like 11 lol.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #59 on: May 10, 2017, 06:07:22 pm »
I did roughly the same thing, I think I was 3 or 4, my dad got me a couple of those big cylindrical dry cells with the screw terminals on top, some sockets, knife switches and made me a bunch of wire leads with crimp connectors on the ends. I had hours of fun playing with those.

Later I realized a 6V bulb I had would screw into the candelabra socket in the lights in my parents bedroom, I flipped the switch and it went pop, the whole bulb turned silvery black.
 

Offline yada

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #60 on: May 10, 2017, 08:25:19 pm »
Remember the flash that would burn out a light bulb every time you used it? So wasteful. How did they make them go out in order?
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #61 on: May 10, 2017, 09:18:06 pm »
Are you referring to photographic flashbulbs?
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2017, 12:17:21 am »
Remember the flash that would burn out a light bulb every time you used it?

I believe it's this:



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So wasteful.
No more wasteful than the same magnesium ribbon flash bulb used before electronic flashes came of age.

... and those bulbs were a bit easier to use than the original system:


Do you like the manual triggering mechanism of the first two?

Quote
How did they make them go out in order?
Good question.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 12:24:37 am by Brumby »
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2017, 12:32:37 am »
Flashbulbs are nothing more than magnesium wool or foil in a glass bulb filled with pure oxygen. They are triggered by a small electric current, even static discharges can do it. I once dropped a flash cube on the carpet at my grandmother's house and half the bulbs fired. I knew a guy who got a nasty burn on his leg because he had a couple flashbulbs in his pocket and one went off.

They were triggered by mechanical contacts in the camera, usually powered by AA batteries for the small stuff while larger professional flash heads often took a pair of C batteries.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #64 on: May 11, 2017, 12:38:52 am »
There were a lot of different mechanisms for those "bulbs".  The ones I remember are:

1.  The flashcube had a bulb on each face.  The film winding mechanism would rotate a new bulb to the front, and this also put it in contact with the electrical connections.  High and low side for each bulb.

2.  Another had a long string of bulbs similar to the picture above, and indexed the cartridge through the camera, connecting one bulb at a time to the camera contacts.  Again, a pair of contacts for each bulb.

3.  Another version of the strip bulbs had a common connection for all bulbs, and a single high for each bulb.  A step switch in the camera indexed through the bulbs.

4.  Some had some form of steering network in the bulb pack.  I don't remember how it worked but believe it was purely passive.
 

Offline t_ryner

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #65 on: May 11, 2017, 12:40:00 am »
I'm enjoying how much activity is going on on this post- I never expected it to go from whatever I started with to disposable flashbulbs and polaroid cameras!
Flashbulbs are nothing more than magnesium wool or foil in a glass bulb filled with pure oxygen. They are triggered by a small electric current, even static discharges can do it. I once dropped a flash cube on the carpet at my grandmother's house and half the bulbs fired. I knew a guy who got a nasty burn on his leg because he had a couple flashbulbs in his pocket and one went off.

They were triggered by mechanical contacts in the camera, usually powered by AA batteries for the small stuff while larger professional flash heads often took a pair of C batteries.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #66 on: May 11, 2017, 12:44:36 am »
I vaguely remember there were also flashbulbs that were purely mechanically triggered. Seems like they had a tiny percussion cap that would fire when struck by a firing pin.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2017, 03:14:49 am »
I vaguely remember there were also flashbulbs that were purely mechanically triggered. Seems like they had a tiny percussion cap that would fire when struck by a firing pin.

Yeah, now that you mention it I believe you are right.
 

Online Ian.M

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2017, 08:21:40 am »
Yes.  Philips Magicube.
It had a pin protruding from the bulb base and was fired by the pin being struck laterally by a hairpin spring built into the cube for each bulb.  The spring was held back by a little metal pin formed from the other end of it and the camera fired it by pushing the spring up to clear the retaining pin when you pressed the shutter release.  You could easily fire it manually by prodding the spring.
 
Some fishing line for tripwires, some matchsticks to prod the springs and a Magicube on a stake made an interesting deterrent for people wandering around at night where they shouldn't be.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 08:30:04 am by Ian.M »
 

Offline 6PTsocket

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Re: accidental creation of AC power using a 9 volt Battery?!
« Reply #69 on: August 26, 2018, 04:17:54 am »
The real high voltage in a CRT TV was generated by the flyback transformer. What you have there is the deflection yoke that magnetically bends the beam across the screen. Scopes did it electrostaticaly.

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