Poll

In your experience what are the OS most used on machines connected to tools for electronics development work ?

MS Windows
35 (67.3%)
MacOS / IOS
1 (1.9%)
Linux
16 (30.8%)
Other Unix-based
0 (0%)
Others
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 52

Voting closed: June 18, 2021, 02:10:52 am

Author Topic: OS used in a electronics development setting  (Read 1600 times)

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Offline PKTKS

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2021, 06:47:56 pm »
Counting Microsoft's update disasters the last 12 months many people might disagree with "it just works".

Counting how many times Windooozze  locked and trashed
and bugged and failed over the 20+y w/me that sounds hilarious

My 6y nephew after 5 minutes was pointing and clicking and
dragging and fussing a linux machine built for him...

He can say that works.. even learned the finger asap

Paul
 

Online asmi

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2021, 09:09:03 pm »
Counting Microsoft's update disasters the last 12 months many people might disagree with "it just works".
Have you ever worked on a software that is used on many millions of computers in open ecosystem (meaning you have no control over hardware nor software aside from yours)? Well, as some who has, I can tell you that no matter how much you test, you are going to screw something up for someone somewhere. Windows is running on over a billion PCs worldwide, so no wonder issues crop up every once in a while.

In all my time using Windows, I never had any issues with it that were not self-inflicted. I did have quite a bit of issues with Linux, which I also use for work. I've lost count on how many times what seemed like a simple version update turned into a multi-hour saga of troubleshooting with pulling my hair out.
 
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Online asmi

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2021, 09:14:22 pm »
Counting how many times Windooozze  locked and trashed
and bugged and failed over the 20+y w/me that sounds hilarious
:palm: It's funny that Linux is much more widely known for having issues during updates. Especially when it comes to drivers, which stop working all the time due to constantly changing kernel ABI.
As for Windows "locked and trashed", 99,(9)% of those cases are either users doing something stupid (average Windows user is an idiot who barely knows how to turn PC on - there is a reason all tech supports worldwide ask if PC is connected to the outlet, or turned on whenever they receive a call from a customer), or hardware issues resulting from buying random cheap garbage.

Offline PKTKS

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2021, 10:23:01 am »
Counting how many times Windooozze  locked and trashed
and bugged and failed over the 20+y w/me that sounds hilarious
:palm: It's funny that Linux is much more widely known for having issues during updates. Especially when it comes to drivers, which stop working all the time due to constantly changing kernel ABI.
As for Windows "locked and trashed", 99,(9)% of those cases are either users doing something stupid (average Windows user is an idiot who barely knows how to turn PC on - there is a reason all tech supports worldwide ask if PC is connected to the outlet, or turned on whenever they receive a call from a customer), or hardware issues resulting from buying random cheap garbage.

Well you can't be more wrong about that...

I am using Linux specifically since 90s (was using SCO and HPUX before that)
and since then... I had 0 ZERO issues keeping  rolling setups customized by myself..

ZERO issues in some decades is good in time and effort and money...

As for the garbage.. I **WAS** once upon a time (before 00s at
80s and 90s ) a DOS and WINdoooze  programmer..

It is just a total  insanity - in a system wo sources or crippled sources
and bugged drivers - to try to do SERIOUS INSTRUMENT and HARD stuff

Total insanity I got TOTAL rid off by the end of 90s.

As of these "BRICKS"  they sell today for these 99.99% stupid goonies..

Well  my 6y old nephew is a de facto MSCSE - MerdSoft Crock of Shit Expert ...

He can barely read but he can do everything related with those
cartoon stickers or figurines... by just moving clicking pointing..
install shitty video drivers to play his games..
re-install shit OS by just using the stickers..
everything with a cartoon sticker he can do...

A real crock of shit expert... MSCSE... Now he can read and I am
trying to introduce him a real computer above a BRICK..

Where he is already playing MINECRAFT and BRUTAL DOOM (99.99% time)

He just evolved from that MSCSE...  :popcorn:

And I am doing whatever I can to introduce him to real computers
not stupid goonies bricks..

Hes is already very fine ...  :)
Paul
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 11:29:56 am by PKTKS »
 

Offline madires

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2021, 10:42:07 am »
Have you ever worked on a software that is used on many millions of computers in open ecosystem (meaning you have no control over hardware nor software aside from yours)? Well, as some who has, I can tell you that no matter how much you test, you are going to screw something up for someone somewhere. Windows is running on over a billion PCs worldwide, so no wonder issues crop up every once in a while.

I agree with that, but I didn't mean oddball combinations of software or hardware. For example: https://www.tomsguide.com/news/windows-10-may-update-is-officially-a-disaster. I know of several companies which were effected by the printing problems because they have the "wrong" printers, standard office printers from well known vendors. Talk to IT departments and they will tell your their latest horror story about Windows updates.

However, this is going off topic.
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2021, 10:46:46 am »
Have you ever worked on a software that is used on many millions of computers in open ecosystem (meaning you have no control over hardware nor software aside from yours)? Well, as some who has, I can tell you that no matter how much you test, you are going to screw something up for someone somewhere. Windows is running on over a billion PCs worldwide, so no wonder issues crop up every once in a while.

I agree with that, but I didn't mean oddball combinations of software or hardware. For example: https://www.tomsguide.com/news/windows-10-may-update-is-officially-a-disaster. I know of several companies which were effected by the printing problems because they have the "wrong" printers, standard office printers from well known vendors. Talk to IT departments and they will tell your their latest horror story about Windows updates.

However, this is going off topic.

Nah.. not off topic...

Corporate IT  is the closest thing related to the NAZI REICH ...
Absolute mindless terror and lack of sense..

Kinda flow of bad habits or practices and no one questions it

Paul
 

Online asmi

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2021, 02:41:07 pm »
I am using Linux specifically since 90s (was using SCO and HPUX before that)
and since then... I had 0 ZERO issues keeping  rolling setups customized by myself..

ZERO issues in some decades is good in time and effort and money...
Now you are just straight up lying. Not interested in continuing this conversation. Move on.

On topic - if you can go for cross-platform - go for it. But please keep in mind that this move is going to cost you quite a bit of money and time, because you will need to test each and every release in all supported OSes, as well as deal with support cases coming from them. So you will need to think real hard if it makes sense from the business standpoint. Or you can go the way some other software vendors going - don't support it officially, but give users an option of going for it at their own risk. Average Linux user out of necessity is way more PC-literate than Windows or MAC user, so this approach might work and a lot of users will appreciate not locking out that opportunity.

Online asmi

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2021, 02:48:46 pm »
I agree with that, but I didn't mean oddball combinations of software or hardware. For example: https://www.tomsguide.com/news/windows-10-may-update-is-officially-a-disaster. I know of several companies which were effected by the printing problems because they have the "wrong" printers, standard office printers from well known vendors. Talk to IT departments and they will tell your their latest horror story about Windows updates.
I worked in/with IT departments a lot, so no need to tell me about that. Good IT department always pre-test all updates in a sandbox to make sure they don't break anything - all big companies have a ton of oddball LOB applications which were developed over a decade years ago which they still use, so no sane IT department in it's right might will ever allow direct access to updates without such testing and verification. That's part of their job. So if someone hasn't done it's job, it's not a vendor's fault because you can't realistically expect them to test each and every configuration possible in the world. And as a software developer, I know that even if you test on a 10000 different HW/SW platforms, there is always going to be the 10001st one which won't work for one reason or another.

Offline PKTKS

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2021, 03:22:47 pm »
I am using Linux specifically since 90s (was using SCO and HPUX before that)
and since then... I had 0 ZERO issues keeping  rolling setups customized by myself..

ZERO issues in some decades is good in time and effort and money...
Now you are just straight up lying. Not interested in continuing this conversation. Move on.


Thanks for the insult..  but why would I do that?

I have nothing really to gain lying about that...
I started with a SLACKWARE distro around 1993..
and it was (still is) so easy to keep rolling...

That I do have some of that original stuff around..

archives in the file system dated 1992 1993..
some of the stuff requires ancient libc stuff to run...
which I have ditched already...

I have no reason to lie to you or anybody else about a simple fact
like this..

If you never ever tried a Slackware distro.. try one.
You will see for yourself how simple and different it is.

Paul
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2021, 04:12:31 pm »
I do not like even by chance to be taken by someone
not serious..

So to satisfy the doubts of the issue

Here some shots of MY DESKTOP TODAY

RUNNING STUFF DATED 1993... 1995 ...

perfectly as it was at that time...

OpenLook window manager was the primary stuff running
at 1993...  replaced by FVWM at 94.. then FVWM95 at 1995.

And then folks started these KDE GTK and stuff by 2000s

All this stuff is still on my primary workstation as it was 199x..

Running TODAY with KiCAD and some goods..

So make no mistake about myself...

Paul

PS> for the curious.. I can run any of these and a dozen  other
window mangers like desktops anytime on any of my systems..
simple result of a clever rolling schema of keeping my systems..

« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 04:24:59 pm by PKTKS »
 

Offline SteveyG

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2021, 07:08:50 pm »
In the corporate engineering world, it has to be Windows. It just means you can send stuff to clients, or quickly get something onto a laptop for offsite testing etc.
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Offline nctnico

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2021, 10:42:19 pm »
In the corporate engineering world, it has to be Windows. It just means you can send stuff to clients, or quickly get something onto a laptop for offsite testing etc.
That depends entirely on your customers. I have a few customers who run on Linux and a Windows application is very cumbersome to use for them. As I wrote before: if you are serious about software deployability then make sure your software runs at least on Windows and Linux otherwise you'll miss out.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2021, 07:12:39 am »
In my experience, engineers love going on about how superior Linux is, but when it comes to the actual work, they tend to choose Windows precisely because "it just works".

Sounds like trolling but I'll reply seriously just in case...

For the record, I consider myself doing "actual work".

I do initial design - component web research, spreadsheeting, SPICE simulations - on linux. This is actual work.

Then I boot into Windows for PCB schematic&layout for obvious reasons (EDA software availability), and I know mechanical designers do the same. The "OS itself" IMHO really works worse than linux but works well enough to let me do the job, namely running the EDA monster, no problem here, it's ok. This is actual work as well.

For firmware & other software development (actual work again!), I then again boot into linux because it just works for this workflow and does it so much better. I know the difference because I was a Windows-only guy up until around 2013. It was manageable, but it was different. Someone gave me a laptop with linux installed and I changed my MCU workflow into base GNU tools, command line, make automation and linux and it skyrocketed my productivity compared to Windows IDE crap. I was sold; now I'm the one who's called when "Actual Work" needs to be done.

Being stuck in dualboot is manageable but not optimal. The Windows part seems to be some heavy hours during a few days to weeks in a large project.

Because I do both HW and SW, and due to the fact SW is 99% of the time more work, the end result is more work in linux. If I was a HW-only guy, the chances are, I would run a single-boot Windows system; or maybe I forced myself to try KiCad for the fourth time. Nah, it would probably continue to suck.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 07:19:36 am by Siwastaja »
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: OS used in a electronics development setting
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2021, 11:09:00 am »
Same here except that I run WIndows stuff in a VM but that is only for text processing, schematics editing and some other minor tools. For the rest everything runs in Linux (including PCB design with Orcad Allegro). The same goes for firmware development. What takes less than a second to compile under Linux takes 20 seconds to compile on Windows. Same source code, same compiler, same IDE and same machine. Claiming Linux can't or isn't used for real work is utter nonsense. Why would so many companies (Xilinx, formerly Altera, Cadence, etc, etc) have Linux versions of their engineering software? Even Microsoft is forced to make quick progress to have Linux software to run in an integrated VM in order not to have Windows lose traction in the workstation market.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 06:30:14 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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