Advice on cheap Linux computer for my kids

[edy]

Hi everyone,

I want to replace an old desktop machine that my kids have been using with Ubuntu. I have a few even older CPU's in the basement but I thought it may be a good opportunity to get them something a bit newer but I am hoping to make it as least expensive as possible.

After the old desktop died, I have left:

1. One VGA monitor
2. Keyboard and Mouse (USB)
3. Was using a WiFi PCI card adapter, and then later a USB WiFi dongle on the old desktop

First thought was to buy a RaspBerry Pi 3 and install Ubuntu-Mate on it. I would need an HDMI-to-VGA adapter unless I plan on buying a new monitor (which I'd rather not). The Pi has WiFi built in so that would be all they need to get back to the familiar Ubuntu environment they were previously using (mostly just Chromium browser and a few software packages).

I could just wait and scrap together another old PC. Or I could buy them a Chromebook or a refurb'd laptop and wipe it and put Ubuntu on there. I would still need a WiFi card and probably HDMI-to-VGA adapter if I buy a newer PC as it will likely have HDMI output only, and I'm not sure if they have WiFi onboard. I walked into a local computer shop and saw a fair bit of kit but with Windows installed, which I don't need and don't want to pay for. I'd rather get an old machine if feasible.

I would appreciate any ideas if you have them. RaspBerry Pi 3 is about $60-70 Canadian in my area. I am not sure even for that price if it is not worth spending a bit more and getting an older refurbished laptop.    And the teachers at the kids schools are pressuring the kids to get Chromebooks and bring them to school, which I want to avoid.

So one main question is do I go portable, or not? And if I get them something like a small barebones PC/raspPi or clone, then I would need to still be able to use VGA monitor and USB monitor/keyboard and install Linux on it (like Ubuntu). If I get something portable, I'm basically going for a Chromebook or Laptop but I'm worried about the kids (9 and 7) lugging this to school, and how careful they will be with it, so an old refurb may be useful. I could build them a RaspPi3 laptop in a suitcase but that would cost too much.

[Ampera]

The honest truth is what do your kids need it for?

A raspi zero with a cheap screen can be done good for portable word processing and really basic stuff.

Raspi 2/3 is good for youtube and multimedia.

For desktop use, Raspi 3 is probably the best option. HDMI to VGA is not TOO expensive, but 60-70CAD is a bit steep.

To be brutally honest, 7 and 9 year old doesn't really need a computer at school (I'm 15 and in college and the best I have is an HP Prime graphing calculator when I'm there.)

You're the parent, so it's your choice, and I am not demanding you do your children a certain way, but if it were me I would personally give them a desktop and say no computers out of the house unless they need it.

If you want to go with a PC, anything late P4 /K8 or later is fine. Try to use whatever old parts you have. Don't go too old, or it gets expensive. You can probably find a cheapie OEM system for pennies. You may even want to check around on craigslist for something that's just trying to be gotten rid of for not too much. Freecycle is an option too if you have that in your area. You may even want to ask someone like freegeek if that's around you (I know they are in Canada) if they have anything they are trying to lose for cheap.

[edy]

Thanks for the advice... I agree, I don't really want to send them to school with a laptop either. At best, I may get them a cheap Android tablet they can use if they absolutely must for those "computer assignment" school classes (the teachers do ask for BYOD from the kids).

For home, the desktop is fine. I found a few refurbished Lenovo's for about $70-90 from Microsoft Authorized Resellers. Honestly I don't even care for Windows, I'll just install a dual-boot with Ubuntu anyways. But I guess if they must use Windows for some reason, it'll be good to have. Given that I already have a monitor, keyboard, mouse... I am not as impressed with a Raspberry Pi option for them as it will end up costing almost as much once I'm done buying a case, power adapter, SD card, HDMI-VGA adapter, etc.

I've found quite a few Lenovo T410's for just under $200 in good condition. But I still feel a desktop would work best, considering the one we already were using (from about 2007) was working just fine with Lubuntu and I even had Win XP on it going still on a dual-boot partition. A newer (but still old refurb'd) $70 Lenovo desktop would probably do the job, and wouldn't cost much more than a Pi.

What they need it for:

- Chromium/Chrome to access Google Docs (the teachers put assignments on there now)
- Word Processing/LibreOffice (I can set up my WiFi printer so they can print assignments over network)
- Using some learning programs found in Ubuntu distros (math, science, etc).
- Scratch programming

Pretty basic stuff I would say. No video editing, no music/sound editing, no rendering 3D, no 3D gaming, etc... Nothing fancy. That's why my 10 year old desktop was just fine. I just wish I had a dumpster like Dave has to see what comes around. 

[Ampera]

Eh, 70-90 dollars still seems a bit steep for me. If you just need that you can use anything that has a 64 bit CPU pretty much (They are all about as powerful).

LGA 775 and Socket 754 or newer really. From that range you could probably find something for 50 bucks.

But it's your money, computers aren't expensive if you get someone nobody really want, but you can use.

[james_s]

Why don't you take a look on craigslist or local sales on ebay? I sold a decked out Pentium4 for $50 last summer including the monitor. Recently some guys at work bought a pile of Corei5 desktops at an auction for under $10 each and resold them. Fairly powerful desktop PCs just a few years old can be had for peanuts. Older laptops are fairly cheap too, especially the more bulky ones.

[Bicurico]

1) What do the kids NEED the computer for?
2) What do the kids WANT a computer for?

In my opinion, it is never too soon to equip kids with a computer, provided you give them minimum assistance to avoid dangers (pedos, porn, etc.) and a games-only use.

A computer is nowadays such an important tool for ANYTHING, that I would really recommend you to get a propper modern PC for them. They will do their homework on them, do research on Wikipedia and Google, learn how to use Word, PowerPoint and Excel. Play games, get a social network with their friends, etc.

Also, bear in mind that, like it or not, Windows plays an important role in modern day IT infrastructure, one reason being the fact that many commercial applications are only available for Windows (i.e. professional CAD/CAM/CAE software) or simply are a standard.

Enforcing a Linux only policy on kids seems to me a similar thing as enforcing kids to be vegan (sorry if this sounds too harsh). And no, I have nothing against Linux and I do use it regularily.

You can buy a decent new PC for 300-500 Euro/US$, even a laptop.

A laptop is actually nice because it is cheaper than a PC + monitor and it can be used in the living room, the kitchen, etc. - wherever the parents are. Just explain to the kids that they are not allowed to take the laptop out of the house.

Raspberry Pi is nice, the RP3 runs pretty OKish now, but come on: this is not meant to be a full computer replacement. An old PC? Pfff... that sucks. To save you 200 Euro/US$ you are going to make your kids use old OS, old software and experience internet at unbearable slow speeds? Anything under/older than an Intel Core i3 just plain sucks.

Again, no offense, just my opinion.

Regards,
Vitor

[rdl]

Newegg has plenty of refurbished business PCs for under $100. You might check into that. I don't know if being outside the US would cause a problem buying from them, but maybe a similar source exists in Canada.

[nctnico]

I second the suggestion for a used business PC. They cost around US $100 and will last at least a couple of years. Teenagers however will want faster PCs with a decent graphics card but even those don't have to be expensive when combined with used business PC. Windows will be hard to avoid for school work and games.

[mmagin]

Adding to the chorus of "off-lease/refurb business desktop".  Even an average desktop from 5 years ago is going to be vastly more capable than a raspberry pi, especially if it has 4GB of ram or more.   None of the weirdness of dealing with a less-mainstream architecture for desktop linux, will almost certainly have VGA, a few dozen GB of disk, etc.

[Ampera]

I still thing a 100$ PC is overkill for what is needed. A x64 CPU of almost any design is more than capable of browsing the web, doing text editing, and using scratch. I think 50CAD is the top budget for something like this, but it's still your money.

[Ampera]

I still thing a 100$ PC is overkill for what is needed. A x64 CPU of almost any design is more than capable of browsing the web, doing text editing, and using scratch. I think 50CAD is the top budget for something like this, but it's still your money.

An ARM can do it doesn't mean an ARM can do it competently. For instance, input lag will be high, you don't really want your screen to update only after half a second you scrolled your mouse.

That's why I am not suggesting an ARM processor. I am suggesting an X86_64 processor (Or x64)

[innkeeper]

I love computing on the cheap...
I've gone both routes - raspberry pi and reloading an old system with Ubuntu

Raspberry zero/Pi3 with Raspbian (or whatever flavor suits you)
cost usd from microcenter:
$5 pi zero or $30 raspberry pi 3 preferred
$5 Case
$5 power supply
$10 micro sd card (can go cheaper)
-----
$25-$50 total - you can probably do cheaper of your carful and assuming you can scrounge a keyboard mouse and a hdmi cable.  and make use of a tv or spare monitor.

cheapest route though is reloading a old machine with Ubuntu - free (you can get people to give you their old "useless" systems or recycle one of your own. even dumpster dive for one...)

[james_s]

The Raspberry Pi is a fantastic embedded platform. It uses very low power so it can be left on all the time, I've had one for years operating as a general purpose server, FTP, temperature monitor, it has an RTL SDR dongle connected and other various stuff. Runs 24/7 and consumes less than 3 Watts. As a desktop platform it leaves much to be desired though.

[brucehoult]

The Raspberry Pi is a fantastic embedded platform. It uses very low power so it can be left on all the time, I've had one for years operating as a general purpose server, FTP, temperature monitor, it has an RTL SDR dongle connected and other various stuff. Runs 24/7 and consumes less than 3 Watts. As a desktop platform it leaves much to be desired though.

For $5 more, the Odroid C2 is a massively better desktop platform.

Same A53 at slightly higher MHz, but that's not the big thing. An actual 64 bit OS is good. 2GB of fast RAM instead of 1 GB of slow RAM is bigger. A very fast SD interface (and even better eMMC) instead of a very slow one is probably the most noticeable difference. 1000 Mbps ethernet instead of 100 Mbps make a huge difference for some uses.

$5 very well spent.

If you want even more speed, the Odroid XU-4 (quad A15 @ 2 GHz) is as fast an ARM as you'll get short of rooting a new top Android phone or iPhone. It's Exynos5422 is the same as used in the non-USA Galaxy S5. The price is a bit more than the C2 at $75, but it comes with the needed beefy 4A power supply (C2 only needs 2A). It's my go-to ARM board for real work, unless I need 64 bit (which you don't get to use with a Pi3 anyway).

[SingedFingers]

Stay away from ARM. You want something that just works for the kids. No pissing around with SD cards, enclosures or any of that faff or suddenly finding that something doesn't work or isn't compiled for ARM or suddenly you realise it doesn't have a SATA interface or suddenly you can't get a specific binary codec for it. This is a real problem. You want the kids to be users, not system administrators or end up having to be their system administrator!

Simply buy an old business grade desktop PC and use that.

HP Elite 8000 / 8100 / 8200. Stick Ubuntu on it. And you're done. You can get these off ebay for virtually nothing. They are absolutely rock solid machines and easy to clean/maintain and you can get them without a windows license. If you want to upgrade it in the future, stick a samsung Evo SSD in it and you can't tell the difference between a 5 year old machine and a new one bought retail.

I grabbed a Core 2 Duo 2.4GHz machine with 4Gb of RAM or £25 in the UK from ebay to give you an idea. There are vastly larger quantities of these sold and disposed of in the US/Canada.

If you're already doing that, don't change anything. You'll just end up costing yourself epic amounts of cash and time.

My "desktop" is a 6 year old Lenovo X201 laptop. It gets a refurb battery every year and that's it. Another good option. T410/T420's are nice and cheap now if you want something bigger. That X201 is the machine I make my living off as a software engineer for ref. I paid so little for it, I bought another identical one that lives in the cupboard in case it fails.

I've had three Raspberry Pis. They are trash compared to a desktop for everything other than power usage and having an IO header available. I have a Pi Zero hanging off the back of my Xbox 360 (for power!) that runs a few scraping and scalping scripts now and that's it. It has trouble even with a 200 line python script and parsing some HTML.

[Marco]

Be careful with old chromebooks. They can require some hoop jumping to use them with actual Linux and not all allow you to put in a larger SSD. For instance if you leave it in the normal development mode (which allows you to dual boot Linux) if you don't remove the write protect screw and change some settings, simply pressing the space bar during booting will wipe your SSD.

If you're willing to jump the hoops I'd recommend finding a Toshiba Chromebook 2, seem to be a lot of them around second hand (I have a Dell Chromebook 13 with a Plextor 128 GB SSD, great Linux laptop).

PS. for an old desktop I'd look for anything Sandy Bridge or up, that was the last real jump in computing power.

[NiHaoMike]

If you want even more speed, the Odroid XU-4 (quad A15 @ 2 GHz) is as fast an ARM as you'll get short of rooting a new top Android phone or iPhone. It's Exynos5422 is the same as used in the non-USA Galaxy S5. The price is a bit more than the C2 at $75, but it comes with the needed beefy 4A power supply (C2 only needs 2A). It's my go-to ARM board for real work, unless I need 64 bit (which you don't get to use with a Pi3 anyway).

There's also the Shield TV which uses A57s and a scaled down desktop GPU but is in a somewhat higher price category. It does beat similarly priced x86 machines, especially in GPU power. Excellent if you want a cheap device for 4K upscaling. True videophiles will probably still go for a full desktop PC with a high end GPU.

Maybe consider a tablet and a Bluetooth keyboard?

[mmagin]

With one of these ARM boards, the storage will likely either be small (on-board eMMC) or slow (SD card) write performance.  On top of that, he'll need to dedicate a reliable USB power adapter to it, and a HDMI-VGA converter.  Often a useful case is an extra few dollars too.  You might need a USB hub as well.

It's so much easier to get a usable Linux computer out of a used business desktop for $80-$100.  There are so many things which are trivial to get going on Ubuntu (or another popular distribution) on x86/x86_64 but which you'll spend hours screwing around on a little ARM board to get working.  So unless you're specifically doing that for fun (or work), or you really want the GPIOs or low power consumption, I don't see the point.

(I am someone who loves the dedicated Beaglebone black in my HP 5370 and the one with my KiwiSDR, but who has at least a couple Raspberry Pi's and getchip.com boards sitting around doing nothing.)

[Elf]

The used computer idea is a good one, however if you are searching for a smaller form factor with some performance behind it, try the Intel NUC series (see: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/nuc/products-overview.html ). For example: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16856102141 (needs RAM and HD).

They are fast enough to run Windows or Linux reasonably well, with a basic set of modern software. Sort of like a low-mid range laptop, at their base, or you can turn them all the way up to Core i7 processors.

[Ampera]

The issue is that this is all new hardware which will ALWAYS be more expensive than legacy stuff. And by what you described to me for what your kids need, I don't think they even would like an ARM based system. If there is a game or something they would like to play, for example, Minecraft, they wouldn't get very far.

As I said LGA775 era or newer would be perfectly fine. Any 64 bit 80x86 CPU would be perfect, and with that range you can find systems on the street for nothing.

SBCs and NUCs are TERRIBLE for a quick and dirty system for little kids. They offer 0 expansion abilities for later, and they are new systems, which will ALWAYS be more expensive than legacy.

[SingedFingers]

NUCs also seem to snuff it pretty quickly as well from experience.

[rdl]

I have a couple of Gigabyte Brix that I got sometime ago on sale. They've been reliable so far. They're not exactly a cheap option, even at $99, because you still need memory and a drive. The wireless card they came with was non-functional with Linux, so I replaced them with some $15 Intel, add the $40 SSD and $25 stick of RAM and they came in a bit under $200 all told.

[shteii01]

For about 50 USD you can get Core 2 Due pc from ebay, put *nix on it and leave happily ever after.
Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fast-Grade-A-Lenovo-M58-Type-7359-Intel-Core-2-Duo-2-93GHz-2GB-RAM-160GB-HDD-/262840544285?hash=item3d32846c1d:g:lDUAAOSwo4pYmOBz  but there are many others.

This one is even better, 3 GHz cpu, 4 GB of RAM and Linux Mint already installed (and hopefully drivers configured) for you: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optiplex-960-Desktop-PC-Core-2-Duo-E8400-3-00GHz-4GB-RAM-250GB-HDD-Linux-/381969754875?hash=item58ef2beafb:g:1qMAAOSwB-1YpvvH#viTabs_0

[skylinrcr01]

Just get a used Dell D620 on ebay for cheap ($40 if you're paitent), and throw ubuntu on it. No need for the peripherals, and they were designed to be robust.

[Ampera]

Just get a used Dell D620 on ebay for cheap ($40 if you're paitent), and throw ubuntu on it. No need for the peripherals, and they were designed to be robust.

I'm sorry, but anything not server grade with a Dell or HP logo on it is NOT designed to be robust, full stop.

They are designed to be cheap, easy to replace, and to be just thrown in an office somewhere for somebody to use it.