Advice or words of wisdom for a recent graduate?

[Pack34]

I've been actively seeking a job for about 8 months and although I've had a decent share of phone interviews, I've only had two in person and no job offers.

I've been submitting resumes to anything relevant (about 20-40 a week). One thing that I've noticed that has become increasingly frustrating is that I can't get a job as a technician or an associate engineer position because I'm overqualified, however I can't get an entry level position because they all require 5 years experience. I have interned but the only position I was able to get was doing some CAD work for the phone company.

I'm chugging along but I can't shake the feeling that my engineering degrees are completely worthless. (EE and CE from an ABET) I've been taking graduate level courses to attempt to gain additional skills and possibly more experience.

I apologize if this rant sounds whiney. I'm just incredibly frustrated.

[Architect_1077]

Where are you, as in what country?

[T4P]

That's some heavy discrimination going on there, but i'm not too surprised.
Engineering Degree's ...
Now i'm genuinely scared of wanting a degree

[Pack34]

Where are you, as in what country?

I'm in the eastern US. I've long since lifted any geographical requirement for a position. I've been using the following keywords when searching and omit any criteria for location:

FPGA PCB Cadsoft Eagle Altium Designer Electronics Hardware Engineer

I normally try to exclude the senior level jobs and anything with software in the name if I can. I can modify a program, I know how coding works but I'm just not a programmer. I'm a hardware guy.

[Pack34]

That's some heavy discrimination going on there, but i'm not too surprised.
Engineering Degree's ...
Now i'm genuinely scared of wanting a degree

Honestly, I'd suggest going into a trade school, IT or learn how to program.

[Bored@Work]

One thing that I've noticed that has become increasingly frustrating is that I can't get a job as a technician or an associate engineer position because I'm overqualified,

My understanding as a laymen in legal issues^* is that it is in general not illegal to downplay (parts of) your qualification, i.e. "forgetting" to mention some part of it.

I'm chugging along but I can't shake the feeling that my engineering degrees are completely worthless. (EE and CE from an ABET) I've been taking graduate level courses to attempt to gain additional skills and possibly more experience.

Well, it is not only the technical qualifications that count, but your personality, your ability to sell yourself and your qualification in non-technical subjects (project planing basics, development methods, team skills, personal work processes, some basic understanding of business administration and budget accounting, QA, etc.)

Maybe it makes sense to work on that things.

--
* As in I have no qualification to give legal advice. Ask a lawyer ...

[T4P]

That's some heavy discrimination going on there, but i'm not too surprised.
Engineering Degree's ...
Now i'm genuinely scared of wanting a degree

Honestly, I'd suggest going into a trade school, IT or learn how to program.

I already know how to program, i am on the way to a diploma dude ...

[Pack34]

That's some heavy discrimination going on there, but i'm not too surprised.
Engineering Degree's ...
Now i'm genuinely scared of wanting a degree

Honestly, I'd suggest going into a trade school, IT or learn how to program.

I already know how to program, i am on the way to a diploma dude ...

If you are a published programmer for any smartphone OS or have done any .NET projects under your belt then you will have zero issue finding a good paying job. It's amazing how many cold calls I get for that kind of work because I have C/C++ and C# on my resume.

[T4P]

I see where you're coming from, but i am not a programmer by standards, but i do have C on my portfolio.


But i'm only 18 right now.

[Architect_1077]

@Pack34

Keep trying. I too have been declined jobs due to being "overqualified". I find this rather ironic to say the least...
In any case, do some of your own projects. Keep busy, use your skills to produce work you can show at interviews. Employers are usually more interested in what you have/can accomplish rather than what degree you hold. It's important, sure, but not as important as what you accomplish.

[IanB]

If you are a published programmer for any smartphone OS or have done any .NET projects under your belt then you will have zero issue finding a good paying job. It's amazing how many cold calls I get for that kind of work because I have C/C++ and C# on my resume.

This is a key factor. If you are looking for a hardware job it will help to have hardware projects on your resume.

When interviewing fresh entrants to the job market there is no prior job experience to go by, so interviewers are going to be looking for some "spark" that makes you stand out from the crowd. If I interview five applicants and they all recount what courses they took in college and what college projects they worked on, that is assigned work and it is the same for all of them. How could I tell them apart?

What can make a difference is evidence of self-motivation, enthusiasm and creativity. What did the candidate do beyond their coursework? Did they do tutoring? Did they do personal projects, or get involved with any extra-curricular projects or research? Do they have a personal web site? Do they have details of their own projects on that web site with pictures and documentation? Have they tried to do any freelance work of any kind if they couldn't find summer jobs working for anyone else?

Also what Bored@Work said is true. Personal qualities and ability to sell yourself with demonstrated communication skills and enthusiasm count for a lot too.

Overall this is hard and I feel for you. The key thing is to find ways to stand out from the crowd and be different in positive ways.

I would also suggest that blanket resumes may not be the best approach. It could help to seek out some mentors and try for a more focused and targeted search using contacts and connections in any way you can find them.

[Architect_1077]

What can make a difference is evidence of self-motivation, enthusiasm and creativity. What did the candidate do beyond their coursework? Did they do tutoring? Did they do personal projects, or get involved with any extra-curricular projects or research? Do they have a personal web site? Do they have details of their own projects on that web site with pictures and documentation? Have they tried to do any freelance work of any kind if they couldn't find summer jobs working for anyone else?

Exactly.

[free_electron]

Getting started is not easy. Try to enter at some small company first doing some basic stuff. Designing small things.
Also ,in your resume highlight out-of-the ordinary stuff. if you have electronics as hobby highlight a few things you made, what kind of parts they include. also highlight hands-on skills , like sodlering small parts troubleshooting circuitry using scope / Logic anayzesr , writing low level board firmware or fpgacode ( verilog / vhdl )

this attracts more...

if i interview a candidate i am fishing for stuff they built in their free time , to see how interested they really are in electronics or if they are only after a job on a chair in a cubicle pushing buttons and congregating around the coffee machine...

[Pack34]

What can make a difference is evidence of self-motivation, enthusiasm and creativity. What did the candidate do beyond their coursework? Did they do tutoring? Did they do personal projects, or get involved with any extra-curricular projects or research? Do they have a personal web site? Do they have details of their own projects on that web site with pictures and documentation? Have they tried to do any freelance work of any kind if they couldn't find summer jobs working for anyone else?

I've started doing this more recently. I had it baked into my head that I needed to graduate debt free (I did) but paying my own way and working two jobs didn't leave me any time for projects or clubs. I've since started building some widgets (working on an 8x8x8 cube) and I'm adding those to my resume as I finish or make progress to them.

[Architect_1077]

Keep at it.

[EEVblog]

Have you seen my couple of job tips videos?

Nothing unusual going on here at all I'm afraid to say. Without any experience to show then it's just pot luck. You are competing with likely thousands of others (mostly clueless) graduates.

"5 years experience" is industry speak for "you've had an industry job before". It doesn't have to be 5 years, it could be 1 year.
"2 years experience" is industry speak for "you've worked on similar stuff before". It doesn't have to be in industry, it could be your own personal project on your website.

Basically, experience doesn't just mean industry experience. Get working on some projects.

Dave.

[EEVblog]

I've started doing this more recently. I had it baked into my head that I needed to graduate debt free (I did)

Smart move, you'll never regret that.
Not great for getting that first job, but smart move none the less.

Dave.

[JonnyBoats]

Don't get hung up on the idea that experience <=> job.

If you can't get a job, then do some open source projects on your own and get them published either on your own blog or preferably on a site like Instructables (http://www.instructables.com/ ).

Heck if you make something you can even mail one to Dave and he might open it in his mailbag videos.

That way when you go on an interview and someone asks about your experience, you can point them to a webpage. If you do it open source than they will be able to review your plans, schematics, documentation, CAD drawings etc. The will be able to see first hand what kind of work you do and your level of professionalism.

Compared to an applicant with 2 years experience working on a proprietary project that the interviewer can not review, who do you think will be more credible? There is nothing quite like saying "Here is what I built, take this working board and test it for yourself."

[HackedFridgeMagnet]

if i interview a candidate i am fishing for stuff they built in their free time

+1 Not all places are interested in your home projects but the ones that are tend to be the best, most interesting jobs.

When I graduated I had a lot of trouble getting my first engineering job due to the conditions at the time, I ended up just volunteering at the local community radio station. Once you are working you become much more employable.

[RRobot]

Seems obvious, but here it goes.

Generally hiring people is a pain in the ass, its expensive and risky. Every posting results in hundreds of resume's most of which wind up in the trash. To get hired you should put yourself in their shoes. They have a problem. They will go to great expense to find the right person. To get hired you must find out exactly what their problem is and convince them your the best one to solve it and you must also make them feel at ease with you.

If you want to get a interview, make sure you read the job description throughly and address in your cover letter(or email), in a paragraph or two, describe exactly why you are the answer to their particular problem. This is your sales pitch, you must be convincing or they won't read your resume and this will proceed no farther.  Make sure you specifically cite your education and experience and why this is the solution to their issue. Put your self in their shoes.

In the interview you must convince them of two things:

1) You can solve their existing issue and more.
2) You are not a problem yourself. The worst case scenario for them is they get someone who can't solve the problem and is also a nut. Now they have two problems.

Some interview tips.

1) Be sure you can tell specific stories of how you over came difficult technical situations and dealing with difficult people.
2) Appear relaxed, but not so much as to appear bored.
3) A trap for young players trick questions. Here's one: Give me your greatest strength and your greatest weakness. Here they have given you all the rope which to hang yourself. Make sure your weakness is something like, you just can't say no when someone asks you for help.That sort of nonsense.

Good luck.

[gregariz]

My 2c would be;

1. Forget about sending your CV out to everyone with a job listing. It only works in an employee driven market. As a result I would just try to focus on a few you think you are best fitted for.
2. Focus on getting a job with small firms, startups and local firms near you. Forget about the large companies, the only ones I see them hiring are top grad students and L visa's from India. Don't worry about trying to fill a position. Simply send CV's out cold call to the startups/small firms you know locally. Often local people prefer other locals.
3. Hang around a hackerspace near you, get to know people like you and see if you can jump into a startup that people are looking to get going.
4. Bug your ex-professors and see if anyone needs an engineering assistant or knows of a local firm that does.

[stanigator]

"5 years experience" is industry speak for "you've had an industry job before". It doesn't have to be 5 years, it could be 1 year.
"2 years experience" is industry speak for "you've worked on similar stuff before". It doesn't have to be in industry, it could be your own personal project on your website.

In other words, does "5 years experience" mean "you have an industry job before so that we don't have to train you much", and "2 years experience" meaning "you have worked on similar stuff before to show you're up to date with what's going on"?

[Pack34]

Have you seen my couple of job tips videos?

...

Dave.

Yes sir! I've listened to them twice and I appreciated the bit about interviews in the most recent amp hour. I'm proud to say that I'm most likely going to re-listen to them all this weekend. Why? Just scored an interview at a local startup doing robotics for DOD, police and consumers. I'm on cloud nine right now that I have an interview for this job. It's a really start-to-finish entry level electronics job. The position is for wiring and schematic design, PCB layout, electronic prototyping (soldering, testing), mechanical prototyping (CNC, lathe, etc).

Don't get hung up on the idea that experience <=> job.

If you can't get a job, then do some open source projects on your own and get them published either on your own blog or preferably on a site like Instructables (http://www.instructables.com/ ).

Heck if you make something you can even mail one to Dave and he might open it in his mailbag videos.

That way when you go on an interview and someone asks about your experience, you can point them to a webpage. If you do it open source than they will be able to review your plans, schematics, documentation, CAD drawings etc. The will be able to see first hand what kind of work you do and your level of professionalism.

Compared to an applicant with 2 years experience working on a proprietary project that the interviewer can not review, who do you think will be more credible? There is nothing quite like saying "Here is what I built, take this working board and test it for yourself.

Working on this right now. I have a couple articles typed up and I want to get through one more project before I start publishing everything online. I'd like to try to do three posts a week on theory. Working from the ground up on how a specific bit of technology works. For example: an article about the MOSFET, explain Boolean algebra, kmaps combinational logic gates, the different types of flip flops, timing constraints and most likely associated Verilog code to go with each one.

Thanks to everyone else for their advice! I'm taking each and every bit to heart.

[Pack34]

Bump!

Just to give an update. Today, I've been offered a job! I'm not entirely sure that I'm allowed to say the name of the company so I'll leave it at that. I'll admit that I cried some on the drive home. My wife and I only had 6-8 months of savings left before we'd have to dip into our 401ks and IRAs (I'm 26 and have three retirement accounts).

I feel like a weight has been lifted off of me... This is so amazing.


EDIT:// The job is doing electronics engineering. I'll be working with FPGAs, board design and layout, and some coding and mechanical engineering.


I seriously want to thank everyone here. Especially some of the posters who sent me PMs and Dave. Without this blog I wouldn't have had the courage and enthusiasm to start my side projects. Without those side projects to demonstrate my knowledge I would have not received the job offer I did.

Thank you all.

[IanB]

Congratulations!