Against factory farming

[SgtRock]

Greetings EEVBees:

--I love this forum. Peculiar assertions come out of the woodwork here and scurry around, ideas and contentions you rarely see by light of day. Vegetarians, I love em, more roast beef for me. But, then there are their fanatical cousins the Vegetalitarians. The more rope you give a Vegetalitarian the more likely it is that he will hoist himself by his own petard. Beans being what they are to methane production. Some of the unlikely and scabrous evacuations made in this thread are simply astounding in their preposterousness. No, the food companies are not grinding up chicken beaks and putting them into your food. That is a completely dishonest assertion. Next the Vegetalitarians will be saying that, if I fertilize my alfalfa fields with manure, and then feed the hay to my cattle, that somehow, I am putting Cow Sh*t in your hamburger. Arrrg. Do not pee on that orange tree young man, think of what the Vegetalitarians will say. Possibly protein deficiency has addled their brains. Soon we will be hearing the "meat eaters are unclean and smell bad" meme, in addition to being greedy pigs who do not care about the planet. Sanctimony abounds, Feh. If you are a consumer of meat, thank what ever Gods there be that you are not the minority, for it seems unlikely that you would receive the same tolerance that you afford them.

--They, the Vegetalitarians claim to want cheaper and more plentiful food for everyone (plant based food, that is). But, if you bioengineer Golden Rice, so that children who have little to eat but rice, will not go blind, you will find your facilities infested with felafel sucking yahoos, accompanied by a few of the slightly more aggressive quiche eating yahoos, screaming "Frankenfood" and trying to burn your laboratory down.

"I could be bounded in a nutshell, and count myself a king of infinite space, were it not that I have bad dreams."
Hamlet, scene ii.

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[Time]

I would rather live in a world where we worry about the impacts of our overly abundant food and its treatment than a world where we the milk from the single family goat is the richest sustenance provided to my children.

Vegetarinism and veganism is a luxury/problem of the 1st world.

[G7PSK]

My older sister used to work as a chemist for BP Nutrition she was in charge of the lab that analysed the constituents and chemicals going into animal feeds and the strengths thereof before and after they went into the premixes which were then shipped to feed mills all over Europe. This was in the late 70's before she went to work for the university of Cambridge.

Many of the compounds were mixed with methyl cellulose as a bulking agent so that feed mills can handle them safely, In about 1978 a load of methyl cellulose came in and was tested from one sack only the mix was made up and dispatched to Holland where it went into pig and calf feed. The only problem was most of the methyl cellulose was from a shipment that was destined for wallpaper paste, it was loaded with mercury salts as an anti fungicide, the problem came to light when pigs and calves started to die and others were being born with gross deformities. The whole issue was hushed up.

One of the main things that they were premixing at that plant was a pig feed additive that was loaded with zinc bacitracin a compound which acts as an antibiotic it is still being used for that purpose. Please read this link.
http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/44/6/725.full

You will see from this that Zinc bacitracin is nephrotoxic.

So if any one wants to dis believe that nasty chemicals are being added to food they can But I know that it is and I dont have to get my information fro any wacko web sites.

[SgtRock]

Dear G7PSK:

--I guess you did not read my last post. I am saying that this post made by you:

"Another interesting fact about factory produced food, mechanically recovered meat  is made using the whole animal feathers beak guts and all in the case of chicken and hoof hide guts etc for cows ..."

--Is a dishonest assertion. I will allow that perhaps you are repeating something someone else said and that you believe. So indeed perhaps you are not deliberately lying, but passing on horrible lies, that originated somewhere else. So if you wish to retain any credibility whatsoever on this forum, you will need to either prove or retract this assertion.
Please be specific. Exactly which food companies put this stuff in human food. Provide us with a link to the original information. If you do not, I am afraid that people will draw some rather obvious conclusions. And I will regard your assertions as having about the same credibility and character of provenance as The Protocols of The Elders of Zion, and as having intentions just as laudable.

"I'll have the Alfalfa sandwich, and the smashed yeast"
Woody Allen 1935 -

Best Regards
Clear Ether

[slateraptor]

One of the main things that they were premixing at that plant was a pig feed additive that was loaded with zinc bacitracin a compound which acts as an antibiotic it is still being used for that purpose. Please read this link.
http://jac.oxfordjournals.org/content/44/6/725.full

You will see from this that Zinc bacitracin is nephrotoxic.

Amongst other things nephrotoxic: aspirin, ibuprofen, polyethylene glycol--these are all OTCs consumed in direct quantities, not residual. Alcohol is hepatotoxic; doesn't seem to stop very many people from becoming alcoholics. How many recorded deaths have been attributed to nephrotoxic poisoning via consumption of bacon again?

Furthermore, the problem you've pointed out (if it is in fact a serious problem) is not in factory farming but in farm feed. What makes you so confident that smaller family-run farms that provide for their smaller communities won't acquire feed from "contaminated" sources? Can you expect random sample testing from such a small operation?

[G7PSK]

If they buy feed from the feed merchant that are manufactured by the big compouders it will be same stuff, It amazes me that so many have forgotten BSE which was caused directly by feed compounders having total disregard to public health also look how long it took to get lead out of petrol due car manufacturers not wanting to spend the money on making cars that would run on lead free. It was not until a big enough fuss was made that and laws had to be in place to put a stop to it.

I live in the country, In fact the Townsend estate is at the bottom of our garden (that is Lord Townsend of Turnip Townsend fame, The guy who started crop rotation in the UK) I see farming operations at first hand both good and bad practice is on view in the area.
There are some massive chicken operations within a couple of miles of here one is free range layers the other is a number of huge sheds with no day light used for 12 week broilers one lot get fed grain the other gets milled feed which will contain amongst other things recycled chicken manure and cow manure. but that is better than pigs in China which get fed on human sewage. A few years ago there was a case of dogs and cats dying from eating pet food which had so called supplements from China added to it, What was being added was urea formaldehyde which increased the apparent protein content. There was another case not long ago where they were doing the same with baby milk.
 

[Lightages]

Actually I am a vegetarian, but I also eat fish.

Vegetarians don't eat fish...or any other animal flesh for that matter.

Did I need to put "but" in bold and capitols? 

I think it is obvious from this thread so far that the topic is quite polarizing. As usual, with any contentious subject, the real truth lies in the middle. Eat less meat, stop putting shit in food, and eat less (if you have a typical 1st world diet). Can anybody rationally disagree with this?

[G7PSK]

Actually I am a vegetarian, but I also eat fish.

Vegetarians don't eat fish...or any other animal flesh for that matter.

Did I need to put "but" in bold and capitols? 

I think it is obvious from this thread so far that the topic is quite polarizing. As usual, with any contentious subject, the real truth lies in the middle. Eat less meat, stop putting shit in food, and eat less (if you have a typical 1st world diet). Can anybody rationally disagree with this?

Exactly! I totally agree eat less eat lees meat stop all the crap additives that are only there to make more money, Basically  stop being greedy and grasping gluttons.

[Precisiontools]

Did I need to put "but" in bold and capitols? 

No you don't. What you need to say is that you don't eat red meat, chicken or other game, but sometimes you eat fish. That's still a good thing, but you aint no vegetarian.

[G7PSK]

I dare any of you to watch this video just before dinner. You may not agree with the sentiments of the people who made it I don't  completely. But there is no faking here it is a compilation of all that is bad in farming and that should be stopped. It is made mostly from video taken in the US and possibly the far east for some of it. Just click on the link if you think you are brave enough.

http://www.meatvideo.com/

[slateraptor]

I dare any of you to watch this video just before dinner. You may not agree with the sentiments of the people who made it I don't  completely. But there is no faking here it is a compilation of all that is bad in farming and that should be stopped. It is made mostly from video taken in the US and possibly the far east for some of it. Just click on the link if you think you are brave enough.

http://www.meatvideo.com/

If you knew of the real conditions that garment factory workers live and work in, would you stop wearing clothes?

[G7PSK]

I dare any of you to watch this video just before dinner. You may not agree with the sentiments of the people who made it I don't  completely. But there is no faking here it is a compilation of all that is bad in farming and that should be stopped. It is made mostly from video taken in the US and possibly the far east for some of it. Just click on the link if you think you are brave enough.

http://www.meatvideo.com/

If you knew of the real conditions that garment factory workers live and work in, would you stop wearing clothes?

Wherever possible I buy clothes and for that matter everything else, made in Britain. When you buy cheap from abroad you not only import cheap goods you also export wealth and jobs. A lot of electronic goods are made with the sweat labor of children I have read that some Asus workers have even committed suicide due to working conditions, so I wont buy Asus. Unfortunately I could not source a British made computer I had to make do with an Intel board made in Canada, I dont hold that against the Canadians though, Thats at the door of the British government and past policies. The damm things were invented here.

[Precisiontools]

If you knew of the real conditions that garment factory workers live and work in, would you stop wearing clothes?

My guess is that you haven't watched any of the videos posted in this thread...are you really comparing the treatment of the animals in these videos to how sweatshop people are treated? Yes, poor people get the rough end of the stick in some countries, but its nothing like the wholesale holocaust going on for animals every second, every minute, every hour, of every day.

Grow a set and watch the videos...all the way through.

[slateraptor]

My guess is that you haven't watched any of the videos posted in this thread...are you really comparing the treatment of the animals in these videos to how sweatshop people are treated? Yes, poor people get the rough end of the stick in some countries, but its nothing like the wholesale holocaust going on for animals every second, every minute, every hour, of every day.

Grow a set and watch the videos...all the way through.

For the record, I've seen every video posted in this thread quite some time ago. My buddy and I actually watched that meat video while eating Porterhouses for shits and grins.

To be frank, I really don't care how those animals were killed. I've personally slaughtered more than a few chicken, pig, deer and cow myself. My grandfather used to take me out to the chicken coop when I was about 5; he had me catch the hen for dinner then snap its neck to kill. There's hardly a more satisfying feeling than harvesting fresh venison backstrap in the field after placing an arrow square through a deer's heart and tracking the blood trail. I also slaughtered my first pig for fiesta roast before I was a teen by stabbing a chef knife through its throat to collect blood while 4 men held the pig down during its last minutes of struggle. The best sashimi you'll ever eat is right after the tuna has been caught, then filleted on the boat while it's still alive. Perks of being on top of the food chain.

P.S. Perhaps I might actually take the time to find some old pics of the condo for your viewing pleasure.

[Precisiontools]

For the record, I've seen every video posted in this thread quite some time ago. My buddy and I actually watched that meat video while eating Porterhouses for shits and grins.

To be frank, I really don't care how those animals were killed. I've personally slaughtered more than a few chicken, pig, deer and cow myself. My grandfather used to take me out to the chicken coop when I was about 5; he had me catch the hen for dinner then snap its neck to kill. There's hardly a more satisfying feeling than harvesting fresh venison backstrap in the field after placing an arrow square through a deer's heart and tracking the blood trail. I also slaughtered my first pig for fiesta roast before I was a teen by stabbing a chef knife through its throat to collect blood while 4 men held the pig down during its last minutes of struggle. The best sashimi you'll ever eat is right after the tuna has been caught, then filleted on the boat while it's still alive. Perks of being on top of the food chain.

You have failed to answer the question, you have avoided it with provocative little stories which by the way, I find acceptable because it would appear that the animals were free or well treated before they crossed paths with you. The question is; do you find it acceptable that animals are treated poorly before they are killed? The farming practices here are the issue. Yes we are at the top of the food chain...but do we need to be so brutal to the other species we share the planet with?

[Precisiontools]

And to be even more clear, I really don't care how they're treated. To me, they're nothing more than fodder bred for the sole purpose of putting affordable meat on my table.

...then I hope you choke on one of you cheap arse cans of spam...

[Mint.]

Guys seriously not point arguing about this topic. Who wants to buy free range meat and can afford it do so. Who can't buy factory farm meat. Big deal seriously.

[G7PSK]

Bestiality is bestiality any way you put  there is no excuse for some of the treatment handed out to farm animals even if you consider them as just food, you should respect your food and not mess with it. I wonder if some people on this site are playing devils advocate I hope so anyway if not they are not very nice .
As for the one that do not believe that there are nasty things in the factory produced food, well they obviously have not heard of Erin Brockovich. 

[Time]

Bestiality means sex with animals.  Factory farming is not bestiality.

[G7PSK]

Bestiality means sex with animals.  Factory farming is not bestiality.

Actually it is a  mass noun meaning savagely cruel or depraved behavior it can also mean sex with animals that is given as a secondary meaning in the Oxford dictionary, But I understand some of that also goes on in factory farming.
Factory farming itself is not bestial but the behavior of some of the people employed therein most certainly is. 

[Mechatrommer]

if there is one vegetarian restaurant in my place, i will go there frequently. i went to eat vegetarian food during my study, its magic and it taste really good... this is how we kill animal for food:
1) cut the throat with sharp knife to minimize pain to the animal.
2) cut the throat until breathing line/pipe? and main artery is cut off to drain all the blood and inhibit oxigen
3) the blood is all source of contamination in the body, and to stop breathing and oxigen to the brain to diminish processing of the pain.
4) in the end, you get a fresh and healthier meat. with minimized torture to the animal.

[Noize]

^

[slateraptor]

3) the blood is all source of contamination in the body, and to stop breathing and oxigen to the brain to diminish processing of the pain.
4) in the end, you get a fresh and healthier meat. with minimized torture to the animal.

3) Complete nonsense.
4) Minimize torture?? More nonsense.

[Mechatrommer]

3) the blood is all source of contamination in the body, and to stop breathing and oxigen to the brain to diminish processing of the pain.
4) in the end, you get a fresh and healthier meat. with minimized torture to the animal.

3) Complete nonsense.
4) Minimize torture?? More nonsense.

3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood transporting waste incl urea (read to the end), you drink/consume blood, you drink your own (or animal) urine.
4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decapitation goto Painlessness section. do you wonder why surgery knife is so sharp, try to cut your hand with one then you'll know why its painless.
swallow your ignorance and try to gather more facts. dont learn ee too much my friend

[Psi]

If you had to be killed, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be saying
"hm.. I'll have someone cut my throat, that sounds like a peaceful way to go".

Seriously, you'd be alive and conscious for some seconds, until your brain stops functioning.
And feeling a gaping hole in your neck with blood pumping out isn't going to be peaceful, it will create an intense feeling of panic until the brain starts to die.