General > General Technical Chat

Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.

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eti:

--- Quote from: NiHaoMike on October 19, 2021, 10:29:18 pm ---
--- Quote from: thinkfat on October 19, 2021, 01:02:23 pm ---You lose the "Play Store" and with it you lose all other apps, too. Apps are the single, most important feature that "make" a smartphone. Selling Android phones without Google stuff has been tried and everyone failed, and each time the reason was "no apps available".

If you want to keep using all the popular apps, you need to download them from sketchy servers, trading privacy for security (and you cannot have privacy without security).
--- End quote ---
Look up "APK downloader" on Github and you'll find quite a few of those. Then there's F-Droid, the app store that specializes in open source apps.

--- Quote ---As for Google services, they are valuable to many. Ad revenue is an important driver for content creators. YouTube is the best example. MicroG does not give you that.

--- End quote ---
There are better Youtube viewer apps like Youtube Vanced and Newpipe. Those who do want the ads to support creators but don't want the ads disrupting their enjoyment of the content (or getting creeped out by ads that track too closely) can leave the video playing with ads on a cheap or old device while watching without ads on their "good" device.

--- End quote ---

I have used “Smart Tube Next” and its predecessor, for over two years - the hours or cumulative days of my life it has saved me, with respect to cutting out insufferably arrogant, pushy advertisers, are countless.

Back to topic - Android is still utter garbage - how so? Well the fact that they give it away to the likes of Amazon to create their appallingly sluggish “Fire OS”, speaks volumes. It’s free, but so what, when it’s so pathetic.

The myriad promises and “projects” Google have crowed about over the years, apparently to show “THIS time it’s gonna be SOOOO much better, because <X, Y and Z>“ only to have them never take off as was crowed, and then quietly vanish into the distance, is laughable.

Watching my only two year old Xiaomi Redmi Note 7, attempt to open an app, is like watching a 35 stone, 85 year old man with arthritis, heaving himself out of his armchair and attempting to jog down the street. It’s embarrassing, and shows that empty promised and bare hardware specs mean zero.

Halcyon:

--- Quote from: eti on October 20, 2021, 02:02:07 am ---Back to topic - Android is still utter garbage - how so? Well the fact that they give it away to the likes of Amazon to create their appallingly sluggish “Fire OS”, speaks volumes. It’s free, but so what, when it’s so pathetic.
--- End quote ---

That's like saying Linux is utter garbage because someone made a crap distro. Android itself is leaps and bounds ahead of Apple iOS in terms of customisability and features. It generally always has been. When a manufacturer butchers a product, whether it be Android, Linux, embedded versions of Windows etc... etc... doesn't mean that everything is garbage. Plain Android (or as close to plain as you can get) is awesome. The crap that comes out of China like ColorOS is shit and I wouldn't trust it with security, privacy or stability as far as I could throw the device.

You also can't blame the OS or the developer for crap hardware. This is one thing that Apple have (usually) managed to get right. The hardware (with some exceptions) is generally pretty decent quality and if you want MacOS or iOS, you have to buy it with an Apple device. You don't get a choice. This is why Apple is an excellent (albeit expensive) choice for users who don't care about how their computer works, they just want it to browse the internet, watch Youtube or Netflix and check their email.

tooki:

--- Quote from: Halcyon on October 20, 2021, 09:07:32 am ---This is why Apple is an excellent (albeit expensive) choice for users who don't care about how their computer works, they just want it to browse the internet, watch Youtube or Netflix and check their email.

--- End quote ---
…or make Hollywood movies and TV shows, design the websites you browse and the printed matter you read, write the apps people use, design the house you live in, run multi-billion dollar businesses, perform scientific research, use Microsoft Office, or any multitude of things beyond basic media consumption.

The overwhelming majority of people do not care about how their computers work. As engineering nerds, we are an exception, not the rule. (And IMHO, it’s our job to engineer consumer products such that ordinary consumers don’t need to understand how they work.)

What Macs are is systems for people who want their systems to get out of the way and just work. Are they perfect? No. But they’re better in that regard than the competition. (Though I will happily admit that Windows is a ton better now than it used to be. Since I have to use both platforms, I want both to work well!) They’re definitely not the system for someone who wants to tweak everything under the hood.


As for hardware, I’m very torn: I’m still using a 2008 Mac Pro, because its internal expansion is hugely useful. I am in desperate need of a new machine, but no desktop Apple has made in the past 8 years or so truly meets my needs. :/ I’ve even considered building a hackintosh… :/

Sal Ammoniac:

--- Quote from: Halcyon on October 20, 2021, 09:07:32 am ---Android itself is leaps and bounds ahead of Apple iOS in terms of customisability and features. It generally always has been.
--- End quote ---

So what? Do you think normal people (and you're not "normal" in the sense that you are far more technical than the vast majority of people) care about things like this? Well, they don't--they just want something that works. Too much customizability is actually a bad thing for mass market products as it leads to confusion and additional support issues. And what features are you referring to? Sure, on an Android phone you can install command shell apps and things like that, but those things are as alien to the average consumer as quantum mechanics.



--- Quote ---You also can't blame the OS or the developer for crap hardware.
--- End quote ---

Correct, but the average consumer doesn't know the difference--to them it's all one integrated unit.

Halcyon:

--- Quote from: tooki on October 20, 2021, 12:03:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: Halcyon on October 20, 2021, 09:07:32 am ---This is why Apple is an excellent (albeit expensive) choice for users who don't care about how their computer works, they just want it to browse the internet, watch Youtube or Netflix and check their email.

--- End quote ---
…or make Hollywood movies and TV shows, design the websites you browse and the printed matter you read, write the apps people use, design the house you live in, run multi-billion dollar businesses, perform scientific research, use Microsoft Office, or any multitude of things beyond basic media consumption.

The overwhelming majority of people do not care about how their computers work. As engineering nerds, we are an exception, not the rule. (And IMHO, it’s our job to engineer consumer products such that ordinary consumers don’t need to understand how they work.)

What Macs are is systems for people who want their systems to get out of the way and just work. Are they perfect? No. But they’re better in that regard than the competition. (Though I will happily admit that Windows is a ton better now than it used to be. Since I have to use both platforms, I want both to work well!) They’re definitely not the system for someone who wants to tweak everything under the hood.

--- End quote ---

You basically described computers generally. These things are not exclusive to Apple. Nor did I suggest that basic media consumption was all that Apple was good for. I was just highlighting one target audience.

As for Windows being better than it was, I think this just highlights that we have very different opinions and experiences when it comes to computing. Windows 8/10 is what forced me to learn Linux years ago as to switch over to Apple MacOS/hardware just isn't suitable for me, it's not flexible enough and for the most part, over-priced for what it is. I've been using Windows 10 for years and I have to say, in my opinion, it is the biggest steaming pile of shit Microsoft has ever released. It's terrible, even more so than Windows Millennium and Vista ever were. Outside of a test VM, I will never ever install Windows 10 on a computer in my home and this is saying a lot coming from someone who grew up with and administered Windows networks all his life.

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