General > General Technical Chat
Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
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eti:
Summation: The huge problem with many hardcore nerds is that they cannot see nor imagine anything outside their use case and daily needs. (a trait of austism - MANY engineers and programmers are austistic... helllloooooooooooooooooooooooo?) - not a problem, an observation, it's as clear as that.

You tap a file on Android, and an "intent" picker pops up, offering you 20 different ways to open the file, with 20 different apps - WHY ARE YOU ASKING THE USER, PROGRAMMER? *YOU* designed the software, have the courage and confidence to JUST OPEN the file, showing them "This is what happens when you tap this file type" - END OF STORY.

450 bajillion different handsets, random version of the OS, unknown whether the OS will be able to handle the file type you want... what AN ABSOLUTE MESS!

Like MacDonalds sell more cheeseburgers than The Ritz sell premium steaks, Android vendors sell more than iPhones, SO WHAT? that is no indication of quality.
Halcyon:

--- Quote from: eti on October 20, 2021, 07:41:04 pm ---The huge problem with many hardcore nerds is that they cannot see nor imagine anything outside their use case and daily needs.

--- End quote ---

I think you are absolutely correct and I tend to face this on a weekly basis with some people in my team. It's difficult to encourage some people to think outside the box or challenge what they already know (or think they know). It does lead to some interesting conversations sometimes though.
tooki:

--- Quote from: Halcyon on October 20, 2021, 06:47:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on October 20, 2021, 12:03:06 pm ---
--- Quote from: Halcyon on October 20, 2021, 09:07:32 am ---This is why Apple is an excellent (albeit expensive) choice for users who don't care about how their computer works, they just want it to browse the internet, watch Youtube or Netflix and check their email.

--- End quote ---
…or make Hollywood movies and TV shows, design the websites you browse and the printed matter you read, write the apps people use, design the house you live in, run multi-billion dollar businesses, perform scientific research, use Microsoft Office, or any multitude of things beyond basic media consumption.

The overwhelming majority of people do not care about how their computers work. As engineering nerds, we are an exception, not the rule. (And IMHO, it’s our job to engineer consumer products such that ordinary consumers don’t need to understand how they work.)

What Macs are is systems for people who want their systems to get out of the way and just work. Are they perfect? No. But they’re better in that regard than the competition. (Though I will happily admit that Windows is a ton better now than it used to be. Since I have to use both platforms, I want both to work well!) They’re definitely not the system for someone who wants to tweak everything under the hood.

--- End quote ---

You basically described computers generally. These things are not exclusive to Apple. Nor did I suggest that basic media consumption was all that Apple was good for. I was just highlighting one target audience.

--- End quote ---
No, that is precisely what you were doing, since you said that people who “don’t care about how their computer works”… “just want to… browse the internet, watch YouTube and Netflix, and check email.” In fact, most people don’t care how their computer works, and that includes most professional users, too.



--- Quote from: Halcyon on October 20, 2021, 06:47:03 pm ---As for Windows being better than it was, I think this just highlights that we have very different opinions and experiences when it comes to computing. Windows 8/10 is what forced me to learn Linux years ago as to switch over to Apple MacOS/hardware just isn't suitable for me, it's not flexible enough and for the most part, over-priced for what it is. I've been using Windows 10 for years and I have to say, in my opinion, it is the biggest steaming pile of shit Microsoft has ever released. It's terrible, even more so than Windows Millennium and Vista ever were. Outside of a test VM, I will never ever install Windows 10 on a computer in my home and this is saying a lot coming from someone who grew up with and administered Windows networks all his life.

--- End quote ---
Well, Windows 10 fixes a lot of the usability problems in prior versions of Windows (little things, each in isolation no biggie, but cumulatively becoming death by a thousand paper cuts), and it’s proven to be dramatically more stable for me than Windows 7 or earlier ever were. Also, far fewer issues with things like waking from sleep, which on my the Win 7 computer at my old job would often take upwards of five minutes (!!!) to actually become responsive after waking…

It seems to me that the people who complain the most about new Microsoft software releases (Windows, Office, etc) are very long-time users who don’t like for anything whatsoever to change in the interface, never mind major changes. For people who haven’t been using it for as long, the newer releases do seem to be better, as borne out by MS’s usability testing.
PlainName:

--- Quote ---an "intent" picker pops up, offering you 20 different ways to open the file, with 20 different apps - WHY ARE YOU ASKING THE USER, PROGRAMMER?
--- End quote ---

It's the OS offering the stuff, is it not? Regardless, how is the programmer meant to know which of the bazillion random apps on the Play store the user wants to handle the file? Maybe you could spell out your solution to this problem?

Perhaps the user could be consulted since he installed the apps. With a bit of thinking, instead of ranting, you could even come up with a tickbox: "Use this app every time", and then the user wouldn't be troubled again.

Halcyon:

--- Quote from: tooki on October 21, 2021, 05:19:03 am ---It seems to me that the people who complain the most about new Microsoft software releases (Windows, Office, etc) are very long-time users who don’t like for anything whatsoever to change in the interface, never mind major changes. For people who haven’t been using it for as long, the newer releases do seem to be better, as borne out by MS’s usability testing.

--- End quote ---

That doesn't apply in my situation. Yes, Windows 10 fixed a bunch of stuff, but in doing so introduced a horrible GUI and even more problems, mostly mere annoyances but annoyances nonetheless. Why would I want to switch from a stable, working OS like Windows 7 to something that does a worse job like Windows 10? It makes no sense to me. It's not about resisting change, but if they are going to change the way they do things, at least make a change for the better. I'm actually slightly ashamed to admit it but even Apple MacOS annoys me less than Windows 10 does.

Of course new users will generally have a better experience, as they don't have that benchmark of what Windows used to be. I've used every version of Windows since 3.0 and I remember how great some of those versions were. Even today, I still find Windows 7 more usable for my workflow than Windows 10. It just works and it's not in my face constantly.
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