| General > General Technical Chat |
| Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense. |
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| fourfathom:
Since we're sharing personal opinions, I happen to like Win10, and I've used every MS OS since MSDOS 1.? Back in the day I used many engineering programs on Unix workstations, and wrote MSDOS TSR programs that took over the ISRs and directly touched the hardware. Now, I couldn't do the TSR stuff on Win10, but for my daily use -- Verilog HDL, schematic, PCB, design and analysis tools, some programming, interfacing to instruments, and watching cat videos -- Win10 is my choice and I'm pretty happy with it. |
| PlainName:
--- Quote --- the newer releases do seem to be better, as borne out by MS’s usability testing --- End quote --- You have to be kidding. There is no way that scrollbar-less borderless windows are easier to use than previously. The lack of discoverability should have stuck 'usability' at a negative number, and you can further subtract ordinary-looking text that is actually a button or link (or links disguised as ordinary text). Far too much white space in the wrong places, and those are just some issues - there are plenty more. --- Quote ---For people who haven’t been using it for as long --- End quote --- Well, yes. If they've known nothing then anything will be good. Walked everywhere all your life? An e-scooter will be luxury to you, but for anyone wanting to do real travel or transportation there are far better solutions. |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 22, 2021, 12:07:14 am --- --- Quote --- the newer releases do seem to be better, as borne out by MS’s usability testing --- End quote --- You have to be kidding. There is no way that scrollbar-less borderless windows are easier to use than previously. The lack of discoverability should have stuck 'usability' at a negative number, and you can further subtract ordinary-looking text that is actually a button or link (or links disguised as ordinary text). Far too much white space in the wrong places, and those are just some issues - there are plenty more. --- Quote ---For people who haven’t been using it for as long --- End quote --- Well, yes. If they've known nothing then anything will be good. Walked everywhere all your life? An e-scooter will be luxury to you, but for anyone wanting to do real travel or transportation there are far better solutions. --- End quote --- Scrollbar-less windows are awful, that is very clearly a case of form over function. I absolutely hate the sea of whitespace look that has been so common too. There is an arms race between monitor resolutions increasing, and then UI designers just making everything bigger and more spread out to gobble up that space and it drives me nuts. I have a high resolution monitor because I want to be able to see lots of stuff at once. I think the issue is that software has become a mature commodity overall, there is not much else left to really innovate, so they change stuff for the sake of change and it follows fads just like clothing and fashion. Somebody comes up with some "bold" new look and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and copies it, with little thought as to whether it actually makes sense. Case in point Apple just released a new line of Macbooks that have a freaking notch cut out of the top of the screen, just like their larger phone :palm: Except as bad as it is on the phones, at least they can almost claim it is for a reason because it holds the sensor array for Face ID, which the laptops don't even have. :palm: :palm: |O There is literally no purpose for the notch, other than to maybe make the already razor thin top bezel a few mm thinner, and it blows my mind that anyone would find a chunk cut out of the screen to be less objectionable than a slightly thicker bezel. I seriously thought it was a photoshopped joke when my friend sent me a picture of them. He was excited to buy a new top of the line laptop to replace his 5 year old Macbook and they fixed most of the things he didn't like about the older one but then screwed it all up with the stupid notch, which is something neither of us can stand. |
| tooki:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 22, 2021, 12:07:14 am --- --- Quote --- the newer releases do seem to be better, as borne out by MS’s usability testing --- End quote --- You have to be kidding. There is no way that scrollbar-less borderless windows are easier to use than previously. The lack of discoverability should have stuck 'usability' at a negative number, and you can further subtract ordinary-looking text that is actually a button or link (or links disguised as ordinary text). Far too much white space in the wrong places, and those are just some issues - there are plenty more. --- End quote --- I didn’t say that every aspect is better! ;) I completely, 100% agree with you on the lack of visual affordances that has taken over the entire computer industry. To me, as a former UX designer, it’s absolute, utter lunacy. And yeah, the oceans of white space… ugh. But there are nonetheless a slew of things they improved over Win 7 that make working with it a lot smoother. (One that’s right at the top for me: scrolling the object under the mouse, not the object that has focus.) --- Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 22, 2021, 12:07:14 am --- --- Quote ---For people who haven’t been using it for as long --- End quote --- Well, yes. If they've known nothing then anything will be good. Walked everywhere all your life? An e-scooter will be luxury to you, but for anyone wanting to do real travel or transportation there are far better solutions. --- End quote --- No, Windows is the Toyota of the OS world. Some new users will be first-time drivers, but many will be experienced drivers of 18-wheelers (Linux) or BMWs (Mac). --- Quote from: james_s on October 22, 2021, 12:29:29 am ---Scrollbar-less windows are awful, that is very clearly a case of form over function. I absolutely hate the sea of whitespace look that has been so common too. There is an arms race between monitor resolutions increasing, and then UI designers just making everything bigger and more spread out to gobble up that space and it drives me nuts. I have a high resolution monitor because I want to be able to see lots of stuff at once. I think the issue is that software has become a mature commodity overall, there is not much else left to really innovate, so they change stuff for the sake of change and it follows fads just like clothing and fashion. Somebody comes up with some "bold" new look and everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and copies it, with little thought as to whether it actually makes sense. --- End quote --- I agree with every single word you wrote there. It makes me furious that I can’t see nearly as much information on a modern computer, with a much bigger display, as on a midsize display on a computer 20 years ago. I welcome high-DPI displays to give us increased sharpness and detail, but so many modern sites and software are just jokes, using 72-point headings and the like. I also hate when websites fix their content width, such that making the window wider doesn’t actually let you see any more, and resizing it narrower just makes it clip so you have to scroll left and right. I also detest how websites have become such fucking resource pigs. It’s insane that websites now take just as long to load as they did on dialup back in 1998. Sure, they now have more pictures, but it takes at least as long, if not longer, to actually be able to read the text of a page. Also, am I the only person to have noticed that most websites now break “back” behavior? Specifically, pages seem to almost always reload and jump back to the top of the page, whereas in the past they’d go back to whatever position you were scrolled down to. I know endless-scrolling pages (hiss, froth!) make that much more difficult to do (though Twitter gets it right), but it affects so many sites now, even ones that appear to be normal static pages. (Is it due to cache staleness? Do modern sites set the expiry time to be ultra short? Does it have to do with HTTPS? I’m not a web dev, so I’m not fully versed on the intricacies of that.) --- Quote from: james_s on October 22, 2021, 12:29:29 am ---Case in point Apple just released a new line of Macbooks that have a freaking notch cut out of the top of the screen, just like their larger phone :palm: Except as bad as it is on the phones, at least they can almost claim it is for a reason because it holds the sensor array for Face ID, which the laptops don't even have. :palm: :palm: |O There is literally no purpose for the notch, other than to maybe make the already razor thin top bezel a few mm thinner, and it blows my mind that anyone would find a chunk cut out of the screen to be less objectionable than a slightly thicker bezel. I seriously thought it was a photoshopped joke when my friend sent me a picture of them. He was excited to buy a new top of the line laptop to replace his 5 year old Macbook and they fixed most of the things he didn't like about the older one but then screwed it all up with the stupid notch, which is something neither of us can stand. --- End quote --- I haven’t seen them in person yet, but while I doubt it’d bother me the way it does you guys, it certainly seems like an unnecessary tradeoff for such a small decrease in bezel. What did stand out to me is the grotesque asymmetry in the corner radiuses of the top lid and bottom cases, as seen from the side when closed. It’s like they cobbled together the lid and bottom from two different designs… |
| Bassman59:
--- Quote from: dunkemhigh on October 22, 2021, 12:07:14 am --- --- Quote --- the newer releases do seem to be better, as borne out by MS’s usability testing --- End quote --- You have to be kidding. There is no way that scrollbar-less borderless windows are easier to use than previously. The lack of discoverability should have stuck 'usability' at a negative number, and you can further subtract ordinary-looking text that is actually a button or link (or links disguised as ordinary text). Far too much white space in the wrong places, and those are just some issues - there are plenty more. --- End quote --- There is a way to re-enable full-size scrollbars. I spent way too long looking for that little configuration option. I hate hate hate how the big red X "close window" button in the upper right corner of a window extends to the border of the window. What happens when you want to resize the window from the upper right? Yep -- you end up closing your window most of the time. On macOS the three buttons for close, zoom and minimize are just dots in the upper left corner of the window and they don't extend to the edge of the window. It's been like that since forever on the Mac, and it makes sense. At least Alt-F4 still works to close a window! What's weird is that the legacy Control Panel and other configuration stuff still exists along with a newer interface to do most of the same stuff, and it's completely confusing because sometimes you can't do what you want because the actual config thing is in some other menu somewhere. Where the hell is network configuration? All over the damn place. Also audio configuration and volume control are buried weirdly. On the Mac you can have your volume control right there on the menu bar, along with every obvious ways to control audio sources. |
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