Author Topic: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.  (Read 14712 times)

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Offline etiTopic starter

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Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« on: October 12, 2021, 12:43:14 am »
These folk are as far from understanding what the man in the street ACTUALLY wants to buy, as the east is from the west.

This is an ego massage for a tiny fraction of a VAST consumer base of smartphone users, so they can feel “responsible”, and somehow sleep better at night. Guys, people just want to buy a phone and use it to get things done, and have the interface and mechanisms INVISIBLE to them (the best design is no design at all - it shouldn’t crow about what it’s able to do - the user should try something that feels inevitable, instinctive, and have it happen - this is called “iPhone”)

Whether or not (hint: definitely gonna be NOT) this becomes the norm, the average owner wouldn’t know about the inner machinations of their phone - this stuff is, and rightly so, abstracted away from the man in the street so that the experience is:

Pick phone up > tap “Mail” > tap “compose” > tap “Send” > put phone down and start cooking dinner. People have busy lives and have better things to do than have you burden them with virtue signalling nonsense like this. The onus is on the manufacturer to make their supply chains environmentally friendly - this is just another failed, tedious episode of the same marketing stunt (or a get rich quick attempt by the designers)

It’s all well and good making this stuff, but if it hasn’t caught on by now, errrrrr, helloooo?

https://www.androidpolice.com/the-fairphone-4-is-the-companys-sleekestlooking-product-yet/

What a load of old nonsense.

PS: Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.

This is another load of cack.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 12:56:08 am by eti »
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2021, 01:13:13 am »
PS: Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.
They don't care about that directly but they will care about it indirectly when it comes time to keeping the device useful for longer. It provides a way out of the manufacturers deprecating support for a product in order to sell an incremental improvement of the same product, a rather wasteful practice.
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Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2021, 01:18:29 am »
PS: Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.
They don't care about that directly but they will care about it indirectly when it comes time to keeping the device useful for longer. It provides a way out of the manufacturers deprecating support for a product in order to sell an incremental improvement of the same product, a rather wasteful practice.

It'll never take off mainstream. Never. Fact.
 

Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2021, 01:21:45 am »
Now that it's not unusual for a smartphone to cost $1000 or more, it probably won't be long before many get upset about having to spend that more often than necessary.
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Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2021, 01:25:38 am »
Now that it's not unusual for a smartphone to cost $1000 or more, it probably won't be long before many get upset about having to spend that more often than necessary.

I don’t see that many people upset about it. Most people pay in tiny instalments - drip feeding the carriers their costs back. Yeah the phones are a lot, but despite what anyone protests about to the contrary, Apple make the best phones and people will continue to buy them - they’ve earnt their reputation and people want what they know and love.
 

Online magic

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2021, 07:55:00 am »
Heeeloo !! 111 one one !!!

Normal people would ban this whole smarthpone nonsense altogether for a multitude of reasons, but there just isn't enough of us to force it.
That's what normal people would do :-DD

edit
But I agree with you that most of the abnormal people would rather buy slightly thinner and shinier unrepairable junk that spies on them and gives them intellectual cancer than a more reliable junk that spies on them and gives them brain cancer ::)
This product will barely make a ROI. But so what? Who cares?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 08:01:22 am by magic »
 

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2021, 08:25:37 am »
PS: Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.

I have to disagree. I consider myself a "normal person" albeit educated and experienced in tech. Open source has become quite important to me over the years. It's not about "virtue signalling", it's about giving consumers a choice above and beyond the closed-source and tightly controlled ecosystems. As everyday consumers embrace technology, they start learning more about it.

Things like internet connected lightbulbs were not that long ago reserved for those who had electronics knowledge. Now, anyone can go down to their local hardware store and set up elaborate lighting systems with automation etc...

As for the Fairphone (which obviously did quite well because they've now made a fourth iteration of it), it has some pretty impressive specs for the price whilst also being made of recycled materials. Those things matter to many people. As for support, it's running Android, the most popular mobile operating system/handsets in the world, not to mention the manufacturer aims to continue supplying updates for up to 6 years! How many of your other consumer devices are updated for that period of time?
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2021, 01:06:05 pm »
PS: Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.

I have to disagree. I consider myself a "normal person" albeit educated and experienced in tech. Open source has become quite important to me over the years. It's not about "virtue signalling", it's about giving consumers a choice above and beyond the closed-source and tightly controlled ecosystems. As everyday consumers embrace technology, they start learning more about it.

Things like internet connected lightbulbs were not that long ago reserved for those who had electronics knowledge. Now, anyone can go down to their local hardware store and set up elaborate lighting systems with automation etc...

As for the Fairphone (which obviously did quite well because they've now made a fourth iteration of it), it has some pretty impressive specs for the price whilst also being made of recycled materials. Those things matter to many people. As for support, it's running Android, the most popular mobile operating system/handsets in the world, not to mention the manufacturer aims to continue supplying updates for up to 6 years! How many of your other consumer devices are updated for that period of time?
::reading this thread on an iPad Air 2, released in October 2014, which just got an OS upgrade to the latest major version a few weeks ago and will continue to receive point updates for at least one more year, probably more…::

Say what one will about Apple, they’re really good about providing mobile OS upgrades for far, far longer than the rest of the industry!
 

Offline Just_another_Dave

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2021, 01:49:39 pm »
PS: Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.

I have to disagree. I consider myself a "normal person" albeit educated and experienced in tech. Open source has become quite important to me over the years. It's not about "virtue signalling", it's about giving consumers a choice above and beyond the closed-source and tightly controlled ecosystems. As everyday consumers embrace technology, they start learning more about it.

Things like internet connected lightbulbs were not that long ago reserved for those who had electronics knowledge. Now, anyone can go down to their local hardware store and set up elaborate lighting systems with automation etc...

As for the Fairphone (which obviously did quite well because they've now made a fourth iteration of it), it has some pretty impressive specs for the price whilst also being made of recycled materials. Those things matter to many people. As for support, it's running Android, the most popular mobile operating system/handsets in the world, not to mention the manufacturer aims to continue supplying updates for up to 6 years! How many of your other consumer devices are updated for that period of time?

Fairphone 2 has also been updated to android 9 (it was initially shipped with android 5), while many manufacturers abandon their products after a year from their release date. That also makes it an interesting device for many consumers
 
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Offline Just_another_Dave

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2021, 01:56:44 pm »
PS: Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.

I have to disagree. I consider myself a "normal person" albeit educated and experienced in tech. Open source has become quite important to me over the years. It's not about "virtue signalling", it's about giving consumers a choice above and beyond the closed-source and tightly controlled ecosystems. As everyday consumers embrace technology, they start learning more about it.

Things like internet connected lightbulbs were not that long ago reserved for those who had electronics knowledge. Now, anyone can go down to their local hardware store and set up elaborate lighting systems with automation etc...

As for the Fairphone (which obviously did quite well because they've now made a fourth iteration of it), it has some pretty impressive specs for the price whilst also being made of recycled materials. Those things matter to many people. As for support, it's running Android, the most popular mobile operating system/handsets in the world, not to mention the manufacturer aims to continue supplying updates for up to 6 years! How many of your other consumer devices are updated for that period of time?
::reading this thread on an iPad Air 2, released in October 2014, which just got an OS upgrade to the latest major version a few weeks ago and will continue to receive point updates for at least one more year, probably more…::

Say what one will about Apple, they’re really good about providing mobile OS upgrades for far, far longer than the rest of the industry!

Providing updates for old devices is actually interesting for them. If they forced you to buy a new device, you might change to android, whereas updating old devices ensures continuing receiving app purchase fees from those users. That motivation doesn’t exist for manufacturers of android devices, as they don’t receive money from apps purchased in old phones
 

Offline Fixed_Until_Broken

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2021, 04:26:39 pm »
This is an ego massage for a tiny fraction of a VAST consumer base of smartphone users, so they can feel “responsible”, and somehow sleep better at night.
...
 Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.

I am picking up some ego massaging going on in this post. The majority of users do care about that hippy dippy stuff they just don't realize it because of technical names. They care about how much it costs to repair, They care about how long their device will stay relevant. Users care about security as well.

Security can be improved on open source systems because they don't rely on security by obscurity. Repair costs can be reduced if you are not getting locked out of features for changing screens and so on. The device can be supported longer than the manufacture supports it when open-sourced.

I will admit though a lot of consumers just don't understand what it means. it's simply not virtue signalling to care about open source devices... a lot of environment stuff probably is virtue signalling on the end-user but it's respectable for the manufacture to go that route.

At first glance, it seems to have respectable specs at a reasonable cost.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2021, 05:21:33 pm »
Say what one will about Apple, they’re really good about providing mobile OS upgrades for far, far longer than the rest of the industry!

IMHO they have a history of updating mobile devices about one version beyond where they should have stopped. My old iPhone 4 became nearly useless once it was updated beyond iOS 6, I'm still irked about that frankly, I haven't liked the look of any later version of iOS nearly as well as 6 and earlier either.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2021, 05:53:51 pm »
I had a fairphone 2, I did not realize that fairphone 1 was not designed by them just made under their sourcing guidance. So 2 was actually 1 and it was garbadge. 2 screens and 1 camera module later I proclaimed that this thing was apparently fair to everyone but the poor bastard who bought one and told the phone coop where to stick it.

I guess they may have got their act together with 3 and hopefully 4 is good. The idea of how the phone comes apart is a nice one, despite this I had to send my phone away for repair when it needed new screens so I really have no faith in them although it was some years ago now.

I keep my stuff for as long as it is useful. I have just put a new battery in my 4 year old phone. I guess I may look at the fairphone again later if I need a new one but in my experience hippies and engineering do not go together.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2021, 06:04:11 pm »
Say everything about the mission statement of the company, etc. The phone seems to be very easily repairable, with very fair specifications and price. As for the common man, phones have reached a level of maturity in features that I wonder what is the proportion of the population that is still rushing to get always the latest features versus going through the work of migrating and moving data across phones, with the occasional adaptation period to a new interface.

Say what one will about Apple, they’re really good about providing mobile OS upgrades for far, far longer than the rest of the industry!
Indeed Apple has many problems (IMO, I know we won't see eye to eye on this), but that is certainly not one of them.
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Offline Ranayna

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2021, 06:41:34 pm »
IMHO they have a history of updating mobile devices about one version beyond where they should have stopped.

Both my iPhone 6s and my iPad Air 2 still work fine with iOS 15. Browsing has become somewhat sluggish on some websites, but that is more an issue of website bloat.
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2021, 06:47:13 pm »
Say everything about the mission statement of the company, etc. The phone seems to be very easily repairable, with very fair specifications and price. As for the common man, phones have reached a level of maturity in features that I wonder what is the proportion of the population that is still rushing to get always the latest features versus going through the work of migrating and moving data across phones, with the occasional adaptation period to a new interface.

Say what one will about Apple, they’re really good about providing mobile OS upgrades for far, far longer than the rest of the industry!
Indeed Apple has many problems (IMO, I know we won't see eye to eye on this), but that is certainly not one of them.

People in the UK lock themselves into contracts, forget they are the ones paying over the odds for the phone then get told thhat they "are entitiled to an upgrade" rather than "we have finished ripping you off. Would you like to buy a new phone the moment you have finished paying for your "old one"" of course this is just 1 or 2 years later so yes people are constantly trying to outdo each other with their phones and keep changing them.
 
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Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2021, 07:57:51 pm »
Heeeloo !! 111 one one !!!

Normal people would ban this whole smarthpone nonsense altogether for a multitude of reasons, but there just isn't enough of us to force it.
That's what normal people would do :-DD

edit
But I agree with you that most of the abnormal people would rather buy slightly thinner and shinier unrepairable junk that spies on them and gives them intellectual cancer than a more reliable junk that spies on them and gives them brain cancer ::)
This product will barely make a ROI. But so what? Who cares?

Fairphone = Android, Android = Google, and Google = the MASTERS of lacking ethics and spying, the GRAND masters of everything "woke" and devious.
 

Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2021, 07:59:19 pm »
PS: Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.

I have to disagree. I consider myself a "normal person" albeit educated and experienced in tech. Open source has become quite important to me over the years. It's not about "virtue signalling", it's about giving consumers a choice above and beyond the closed-source and tightly controlled ecosystems. As everyday consumers embrace technology, they start learning more about it.

Things like internet connected lightbulbs were not that long ago reserved for those who had electronics knowledge. Now, anyone can go down to their local hardware store and set up elaborate lighting systems with automation etc...

As for the Fairphone (which obviously did quite well because they've now made a fourth iteration of it), it has some pretty impressive specs for the price whilst also being made of recycled materials. Those things matter to many people. As for support, it's running Android, the most popular mobile operating system/handsets in the world, not to mention the manufacturer aims to continue supplying updates for up to 6 years! How many of your other consumer devices are updated for that period of time?

Fairphone 2 has also been updated to android 9 (it was initially shipped with android 5), while many manufacturers abandon their products after a year from their release date. That also makes it an interesting device for many consumers

We're now on Android *TWELVE*...
 

Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2021, 08:03:07 pm »
Say what one will about Apple, they’re really good about providing mobile OS upgrades for far, far longer than the rest of the industry!

IMHO they have a history of updating mobile devices about one version beyond where they should have stopped. My old iPhone 4 became nearly useless once it was updated beyond iOS 6, I'm still irked about that frankly, I haven't liked the look of any later version of iOS nearly as well as 6 and earlier either.

iPhone 6S is running iOS 15 - that's *SIX YEARS* of updates. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Android.
 

Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2021, 08:06:30 pm »
This is an ego massage for a tiny fraction of a VAST consumer base of smartphone users, so they can feel “responsible”, and somehow sleep better at night.
...
 Normal people don’t care about the hippy dippy “open source” virtue signalling - they rarely would ever know what it means, and good for them - they want it TO WORK WELL, and they want and need superb support, and to know that they’re not the sole person in their entire life that owns this thing, so that someone can help them.

I am picking up some ego massaging going on in this post. The majority of users do care about that hippy dippy stuff they just don't realize it because of technical names. They care about how much it costs to repair, They care about how long their device will stay relevant. Users care about security as well.

Security can be improved on open source systems because they don't rely on security by obscurity. Repair costs can be reduced if you are not getting locked out of features for changing screens and so on. The device can be supported longer than the manufacture supports it when open-sourced.

I will admit though a lot of consumers just don't understand what it means. it's simply not virtue signalling to care about open source devices... a lot of environment stuff probably is virtue signalling on the end-user but it's respectable for the manufacture to go that route.

At first glance, it seems to have respectable specs at a reasonable cost.

That's a nice daydream, but HUGELY differs from the actuality of life, which runs on selling things and making a profit to plough back into the same business to develop more nice things to sell you to make money... et cetera, I don't want to insult you with rhetorical. obvious guff.

The smartphone company which, despite its inherent human tendancies and mistakes, has consistently proven they actually care about security and privacy (and OS updates for SIX YEARS in some cases - I'd like to repeat that again), is Apple, and not one SINGLE other. The industry play-acts, emulating "caring" and they copy various superficial aspects of Apple's countless, complex and elegant layers which make up their winning game, but they come and go, falling by the wayside, fading in and burning bright, then they burn out and vanish - I've seen it for years.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 08:10:13 pm by eti »
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2021, 09:00:10 pm »
Seems like a completely reasonable idea to me



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Online NiHaoMike

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2021, 10:08:11 pm »
Fairphone = Android, Android = Google, and Google = the MASTERS of lacking ethics and spying, the GRAND masters of everything "woke" and devious.
It's quite easy to take Google out of Android, without disassembling or rooting the device.
https://gitlab.com/W1nst0n/universal-android-debloater
I have never heard of anyone managing to take Apple out of iOS.
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Offline Fixed_Until_Broken

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2021, 10:30:47 pm »
Clear cut and dry ego massage.
iPhone 6S is running iOS 15 - that's *SIX YEARS* of updates. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Android.
BTW Blackberry released OS 7.1 back in 2011 or 2010 EOL is January 4, 2022. Just saying. Not sure how long they kept making updates but the military had kept using them up until last year so (US). They now work on android based stuff and blackberries whole business is security.

That's a nice daydream...
The industry play-acts, emulating "caring".
Are you stroking your ego hard enough? I didn't say the manufacture will get security perfect at all in my post. I said security can be improved by being open source.

BTW which manufacture was posting people's nudes and sex tapes online from their repair center recently? Oh, that's right apple. Who just had a massive zero-day 2 weeks ago. Apple again. So stop being a fanboy. Android isn't perfect but I am not the one being an ego-stroking fanboy...

No manufacture truly cares about security, they care about public image and that's it. Now if public image means you have to work harder on security that's one thing but truly caring give me a break. They care about $$$. everything would be end-to-end encrypted if they really cared.
 

Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2021, 10:40:00 pm »
Clear cut and dry ego massage.
iPhone 6S is running iOS 15 - that's *SIX YEARS* of updates. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Android.
BTW Blackberry released OS 7.1 back in 2011 or 2010 EOL is January 4, 2022. Just saying. Not sure how long they kept making updates but the military had kept using them up until last year so (US). They now work on android based stuff and blackberries whole business is security.

That's a nice daydream...
The industry play-acts, emulating "caring".
Are you stroking your ego hard enough? I didn't say the manufacture will get security perfect at all in my post. I said security can be improved by being open source.

BTW which manufacture was posting people's nudes and sex tapes online from their repair center recently? Oh, that's right apple. Who just had a massive zero-day 2 weeks ago. Apple again. So stop being a fanboy. Android isn't perfect but I am not the one being an ego-stroking fanboy...

No manufacture truly cares about security, they care about public image and that's it. Now if public image means you have to work harder on security that's one thing but truly caring give me a break. They care about $$$. everything would be end-to-end encrypted if they really cared.

Your tone is not conducive to a productive discussion. Ad homimem is never a way to change someone's mind, OR to keep things civil, and I am hoping you can see that. My liking Apple's approach to updates and hardware quality, doesn't automatically make me a raving "fanboy" - why is the internet SO "all or nothing" in these swings to one extremity or the other on a scale of something? REAL PHYSICAL LIFE is not like that, so it baffles me as to why online interactions become this way.

I have no time for interacting in this manner - can you not be polite please?
 

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Re: Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2021, 10:55:46 pm »
Fairphone = Android, Android = Google, and Google = the MASTERS of lacking ethics and spying, the GRAND masters of everything "woke" and devious.

A rather generic and inaccurate comment based on nothing more than opinion I would suggest.

If you want facts: Apple devices actually collect and store more user information, including user interaction than Android devices. iPhones are an absolute treasure trove of granular detail if you're the type of person interested in delving into things like the knowledgec.db database.
 


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