General > General Technical Chat
Ah, here we go again with the “eco” phone nonsense.
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Just_another_Dave:

--- Quote from: JPortici on October 13, 2021, 02:42:53 pm ---
--- Quote from: Just_another_Dave on October 12, 2021, 01:56:44 pm ---Providing updates for old devices is actually interesting for them. If they forced you to buy a new device, you might change to android, whereas updating old devices ensures continuing receiving app purchase fees from those users. That motivation doesn’t exist for manufacturers of android devices, as they don’t receive money from apps purchased in old phones

--- End quote ---

And then there's the last major update for the old device that renders it uselessly slow. The only alternative is to buy a new device :)

--- End quote ---

Yep, it should be always possible to install previous versions
rsjsouza:

--- Quote from: tooki on October 13, 2021, 12:44:22 pm ---
--- Quote from: james_s on October 13, 2021, 01:41:15 am ---The curved screen trend I really don't get. We spent decades trying to make screens as flat as possible, then when we finally have completely flat screens with nice square corners we start making them curved again because we can?

--- End quote ---
RIGHT???!? I am puzzled by the curved screen lunacy. I guess flat screens made it too easy to avoid reflections, so let's use curved screens that always reflect something?!? (And take more room.)

--- End quote ---
I have a Samsung S9 and its curved screen is useless to me. If anything, it increases the chances of glass breakage by 1000% as the phone shells available leave its sides completely unprotected.

As for bezels, indeed they are useful - if anything, the grease of your fingers (when pressing the side buttons) do not get in the viewable area of the display.
james_s:

--- Quote from: tooki on October 13, 2021, 12:44:22 pm ---Well, I think picture frames primarily served the purposes of covering the ugly edges of painted canvases, and of providing a strong attachment point. The proliferation of borderless photo frames (and posters, which are typically put up frameless) kinda undermines the argument of them needing a visual frame.

Bezels, on the other hand, serve a very real purpose in handheld devices, totally in agreement with you.

--- End quote ---

I certainly think a picture looks better in a frame, if only a minimal one. I'm really not a fan of the borderless fad, it has proliferated UI design too, objects just floating in a sea of whitespace with separating them. It's a fad like any other, and I've always hated fads.
Halcyon:

--- Quote from: tooki on October 13, 2021, 12:38:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: Halcyon on October 12, 2021, 11:10:20 pm ---
--- Quote from: eti on October 12, 2021, 11:05:47 pm ---iOS security in INSANE levels of detail, from one that knows what is what in this area

--- End quote ---

Thanks. You might also like to know that I have over 20 years of experience in the field, including a Master's degree and I regularly give expert evidence on these kinds of matters in high level courts. I also teach on the subject at Universities across Australia.

I'm not suggesting that Apple isn't a relatively secure handset (particularly when regular users are concerned), what I am disputing is your claim that Android/Google is somehow more "evil" and spies on their users without consent, when that is simply incorrect. You might also like to do some research into Google Workspace and how those services differ from the free Google accounts.

What is far more concerning are third-party applications and custom firmware that certain manufacturers include with their handsets, rather than just the stock Android/Google services.

As for the information that Google openly collects, you do realise Apple does the same?

--- End quote ---
Apple is also transparent about what it collects. The difference is that the vast majority of the data collected on iOS is used on-device only, and doesn't get sent anywhere. In contrast, Google collects data for the purpose of tracking you across the internet, and selling data to third parties. The amount isn't what matters as much as what's done with it.

--- End quote ---

Whilst true, I'll say this again, it happens with the consent of the user. If you don't want your phone listening to your words and displaying relevant ads, simply disable it. I've also mentioned this before but there is a huge difference between pairing your phone with a free Google account, or a corporate/Google Workspace account. Both very different beasts. Although they look the same on the surface, they are two completely different and seperate products from Google and behave differently.

Google is actually one of the few providers (as well as Microsoft and Amazon) whose services are approved by the Australian government to handle protected and sensitive information (to a certain level, there are a few caveats however, such as the data must reside on Australian servers etc...)
eti:

--- Quote from: tooki on October 13, 2021, 12:38:14 pm ---
--- Quote from: Halcyon on October 12, 2021, 11:10:20 pm ---
--- Quote from: eti on October 12, 2021, 11:05:47 pm ---iOS security in INSANE levels of detail, from one that knows what is what in this area

--- End quote ---

Thanks. You might also like to know that I have over 20 years of experience in the field, including a Master's degree and I regularly give expert evidence on these kinds of matters in high level courts. I also teach on the subject at Universities across Australia.

I'm not suggesting that Apple isn't a relatively secure handset (particularly when regular users are concerned), what I am disputing is your claim that Android/Google is somehow more "evil" and spies on their users without consent, when that is simply incorrect. You might also like to do some research into Google Workspace and how those services differ from the free Google accounts.

What is far more concerning are third-party applications and custom firmware that certain manufacturers include with their handsets, rather than just the stock Android/Google services.

As for the information that Google openly collects, you do realise Apple does the same?

--- End quote ---
Apple is also transparent about what it collects. The difference is that the vast majority of the data collected on iOS is used on-device only, and doesn't get sent anywhere. In contrast, Google collects data for the purpose of tracking you across the internet, and selling data to third parties. The amount isn't what matters as much as what's done with it.

--- End quote ---

You worded it succinctly, this was precisely what I'd meant, but failed to convey. I trust Apple - they have a vibe of decency about them, the likes of which Google have never demonstrated (which is highly ironic, since they used to have a brand catchphrase "don't be evil" - LOL - more than likely a pre-emptive, clumsy attempt to convince people of their supposed lack of any current or future wrongdoing, in the same, naive way a child who has stolen a biscuit, protests "IT WASN'T ME! I DIDN'T STEAL THE BISCUIT MUMMY!" before she's even asked "who has stolen a biscuit?".) Google's interest is in selling DATA, Apple's interest is in selling DEVICES, and the privacy of those to whom it sells them.

Additonally - what with this "FairPhone" (cheesy name or what) being so "open" and (apparently...) easy to repair and upgrade, what's to stop a third party vendor of cloned hardware components that look and feel the same but contain surveillance capabilities, from selling them to repair shops/whomever? There's a system in iOS called the "chain of trust" which is well documented, the likes of which are above my pay grade, but in essence, every part of the boot and authentication process are signed and hashed (again, I may be using terminology incorrectly - cryptography is NOT my field) - suffice it to say. it's VERY secure, and is why Apple frown upon third party repair (and rightly so FOR THIS REASON - they like to work with a known quantity, and once Sahid on a shady Dubai market has fiddled with it, who knows what it is doing!)

People moan and whine about iOS devices not being repairable, but they seem to wilfully (or in ignorance) overlook one VERY simple fact - the third-party replacement parts you want to install, might have be of dubious origin, and perform dubious acts - an uninformed, not particularly highly skilled man on a Saturday market, changing your phone microphone or screen, may be, in all ignorance and probably all innocence, compromising the device which - beforehand - was secure.

People LOVE to say "But it's my phone and I am willing to take the risk" - YES. BUT ONE DAY YOU WILL PROBABLY SELL THAT PHONE OR GIVE IT AWAY - when it goes wrong for the next person, or if their phone calls/data/whatever are LEAKED OUT, guess who they will blame? Apple, a VERY high profile target who people LOVE to whinge about, and it is ammunition for precisely that. I see the frustration with not being able to easily repair certain devices, but I see why Apple do it
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