Author Topic: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.  (Read 30503 times)

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Online wraperTopic starter

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Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« on: September 16, 2021, 08:15:20 pm »
Had anyone recently purchased something from Aliexpress as a VAT registered business and figure out how to do it properly? With this new EU VAT collected by a foreign platform stuff since July, now VAT gets collected automatically for <150 EUR purchases. And I'm quite sure I won't get a proper invoice for a company by default, and in result will not get the VAT back. Supposedly there should be a "Buyer Tax Information Collection" setting which will disable VAT collection. And which I cannot find for living. I even created a new account since an old one has region automatically set as Russia for some unknown reason, did not help whatsoever even though region is now properly set.

 

Offline MT

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2021, 11:02:53 pm »
Its a bit strange, Ali basically says you need to pay Vat twice then claim back one of the Vat's?! Where is the evidence Ali actually pays the Vat to the foreign gov in these days of economic warfare? I rather wrestle with my customs then Ali or a transporter of goods for the Vat.
https://servicehall.aliexpress.com/knowledgeDetail?hcAppId=1248&hcFromCode=Xn2Tk1tb7&hcSessionId=26-1248-296201f6-fbb4-4e3e-970c-8e59d3a4921f&spm=service_hall.24300484.category.587912&knowledgeId=587912&categoryId=21039537

Ali wants you to send in your Vat registration maybe that then is linked to your account and enables anti Vat selection?
https://servicehall.aliexpress.com/knowledgeDetail?hcAppId=1248&hcFromCode=Xn2Tk1tb7&hcSessionId=26-1248-296201f6-fbb4-4e3e-970c-8e59d3a4921f&spm=service_hall.24300484.category.587907&knowledgeId=587907&categoryId=21037511

EDIT:
In July 1 2021 EU made some new rules, called "Import One Stop Shop (IOSS)" if a seller register for IOSS they can then add VAT to the selling price.
Apparently as i interpreted it it's your customs who declare/or not if a particular seller is ok for IOSS, you as a buyer if the seller included VAT have to
get the documentation from the seller they "actually" paid the VAT to your gov. The more i read about it and folks experiences from it quite clear this
can/is be a double taxation trap , it all depends on the seller.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 12:55:28 am by MT »
 

Online wraperTopic starter

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2021, 01:22:10 pm »
EDIT:
In July 1 2021 EU made some new rules, called "Import One Stop Shop (IOSS)" if a seller register for IOSS they can then add VAT to the selling price.
Apparently as i interpreted it it's your customs who declare/or not if a particular seller is ok for IOSS, you as a buyer if the seller included VAT have to
get the documentation from the seller they "actually" paid the VAT to your gov. The more i read about it and folks experiences from it quite clear this
can/is be a double taxation trap , it all depends on the seller.
In the case of selling platforms like Aliexpress, it's a platform who collects the VAT and deals with IOSS. Seller only needs to ship the item properly. From what I further found, for that tax collection setting to appear, you need to have a business account. And there is no straightforward way to do it, except if you live in a few countries from which Aliexpress allows you to register a seller account (Italy, Spain, Russia and Turkey). But dropshipping tool DSers https://www.dsers.com/blog/eu-vat-reform/ supposedly offers to upgrade your Aliexpress account to Business buyer if you contact their support.
Quote
To register as a Business Buyer, you need to submit VAT number and Company name to AliExpress - My account page.
If the “Buyer Tax Information Collection” tag does not appear, it means the account is not yet activated as a Business Buyer.
Please report to DSers support team and we will help you activate it on AliExpress. Your AliExpress account email and DSers account email will be required.
Then I found out that Aliexpress also have their own "AliExpress Dropshipping Center". Well I applied to that, signed an agreement. Now I have their dropshipper center available, still nowhere to enter my business details   |O :palm:.
 

Offline MT

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2021, 03:01:20 pm »
EDIT:
In July 1 2021 EU made some new rules, called "Import One Stop Shop (IOSS)" if a seller register for IOSS they can then add VAT to the selling price.
Apparently as i interpreted it it's your customs who declare/or not if a particular seller is ok for IOSS, you as a buyer if the seller included VAT have to
get the documentation from the seller they "actually" paid the VAT to your gov. The more i read about it and folks experiences from it quite clear this
can/is be a double taxation trap , it all depends on the seller.
In the case of selling platforms like Aliexpress, it's a platform who collects the VAT and deals with IOSS. Seller only needs to ship the item properly. From what I further found, for that tax collection setting to appear, you need to have a business account. And there is no straightforward way to do it, except if you live in a few countries from which Aliexpress allows you to register a seller account (Italy, Spain, Russia and Turkey). But dropshipping tool DSers https://www.dsers.com/blog/eu-vat-reform/ supposedly offers to upgrade your Aliexpress account to Business buyer if you contact their support.

When i first read about IOSS yesterday i also presumably thought Ali was the seller collective "VAT payer" after all its their platform but the more i read i see "buyers" complaining about "sellers" on Ali
not declaring VAT been paid , there is even cases where sellers put their IOSS number on the outside of the parcels despite that the package got hold in customs who then claims they cant find the sellers IOSS registration number (supposedly registered with Ali to begin with) and want VAT pay'd by the purchaser!? I.e i have no idea whats going on, perhaps just hapen's in some countries and not others.
None of that should happen if Ali is the Vat collector. Ali claims Vat is declared on the invoice.

Quote
To register as a Business Buyer, you need to submit VAT number and Company name to AliExpress - My account page.
If the “Buyer Tax Information Collection” tag does not appear, it means the account is not yet activated as a Business Buyer.
Please report to DSers support team and we will help you activate it on AliExpress. Your AliExpress account email and DSers account email will be required.

Then I found out that Aliexpress also have their own "AliExpress Dropshipping Center". Well I applied to that, signed an agreement. Now I have their dropshipper center available, still nowhere to enter my business details   |O :palm:.

Ok there we go, its linked to the registration as i previously suspected and double taxation is an issue for both dropshippers and regular private buyers it seams.
Dont get why one has to go through Dser's to get Ali working?!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2021, 05:56:19 pm by MT »
 

Offline peter-h

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2021, 04:46:28 pm »
Surely, B2B is zero-VAT (and zero-duty) at all invoice values. I do this in my business all the time.

The UK VAT collection rules (£35 to £135 band) are for B2C (customer is a retail consumer). It is a totally dumb cock and bull scheme which I predict will eventually collapse because
- most mainland European retail online outlets have stopped selling to the UK at all invoice values
- the workaround is to sell via a platform which does it for you (Amazon and Ebay - both deeply unsatisfactory for various reasons)
- if the seller "just ships" the item, it still gets delivered to the customer (and import VAT is collected, with the usual ripoff surcharge)

It is not just EU sellers BTW. It is US and others as well.

That some sellers don't supply a decent invoice, has always been a problem, especially with sellers in the 3rd World (China, etc); many of those businesses are fake companies anyway, run for tax evasion.

I have not used Aliexpress much so don't know... I would expect them to implement it same as Ebay.
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Offline MT

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2021, 07:01:23 pm »
Then I found out that Aliexpress also have their own "AliExpress Dropshipping Center". Well I applied to that, signed an agreement. Now I have their dropshipper center available, still nowhere to enter my business details   |O :palm:.

2.4 Benefits, features and functions available to a Member may vary for different countries and regions.  No warranty or representation is given that a particular feature or function or the same type and extent of features and functions will be available.

Ali disclaimer! Would be surprising if Ali would have a different setup for Latvia!
 

Offline MT

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2021, 09:59:49 pm »
Besides VAT each country in EU have its own so called package "handling fee" in many cases
it is the national postal service who has been assigned by gov to handle customs , peculiar how
it can vary so much for the so called "united" EU, examples:
Portugal: 2€ for orders up to 150€, and 4€ to orders between 150 and 1000€.
Sweden: 7.5Euro below 150Euro and 12.5Euro above 150Euro limit.
Denmark: 21 Euro.
Slovakia: 2euro or 4euro or 9euro depeending on what no one knows.
Belgium: 15euro for anything under 150 euro and 30euro for above.
Italy: 2€ for orders of 22€ and under 5€ for orders 22.01€ to 150€ 5€ plus
            custom duties for items 150€ to 1000€.
 

Online wraperTopic starter

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2021, 08:46:18 am »
When i first read about IOSS yesterday i also presumably thought Ali was the seller collective "VAT payer" after all its their platform but the more i read i see "buyers" complaining about "sellers" on Ali
not declaring VAT been paid , there is even cases where sellers put their IOSS number on the outside of the parcels despite that the package got hold in customs who then claims they cant find the sellers IOSS registration number (supposedly registered with Ali to begin with) and want VAT pay'd by the purchaser!? I.e i have no idea whats going on, perhaps just hapen's in some countries and not others.
None of that should happen if Ali is the Vat collector. Ali claims Vat is declared on the invoice.
VAT was paid by Aliexpress, it's sellers who screw up reporting that VAT was paid when shipping, and customs unwilling to do anything about it even though importer (buyer) has a VAT invoice.
 

Offline MadScientist

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2021, 08:53:28 am »
What you are talking about is DDP , delivery duty paid , this is a eu vat scheme that allows exporters to the EU to prepay vat. It has a limit of I think €150

If you are a vat registered business the sellers platform must recognise this and not apply vat. You will then pay customs duties, handling charges and vat in your own country on immediate import

reclaiming the DDP vat is not possible , whether you are vat registered or not.

DDP works well from the uk to Ireland for example with amazon.co.uk deliveries  back to 2 days as a result of DDP
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 08:56:02 am by MadScientist »
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Online wraperTopic starter

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2021, 09:03:27 am »
If you are a vat registered business the sellers platform must recognise this and not apply vat. You will then pay customs duties, handling charges and vat in your own country on immediate import
And in a nutshell the question was how to do that?
 

Offline Pinkus

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2021, 11:25:27 am »
Similar here: according to AliExpress there should be a page 'Buyer Tax information Collection’ at 'My AliExpress' or at the account settings, but this page is missing (at least at my account). AliExpress says: You can update your VAT information to verify your account as business buyer. After account verified, you can order without tax in AliExpress.
This page was never available to me, thus I would need to pay VAT which I cannot claim back. Consequently I did not order anything at AliExpress since May - usually I did order something every week.
 

Offline MT

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2021, 03:12:49 pm »
VAT was paid by Aliexpress, it's sellers who screw up reporting that VAT was paid when shipping, and customs unwilling to do anything about it even though importer (buyer) has a VAT invoice.
Obviously , but point are, seller wrote a IOSS number on package. Real or fake, for unknown reasons, whether or not the IOSS number correlate with Ali invoice story dont tell.
 

Online wraperTopic starter

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2021, 04:25:01 pm »
VAT was paid by Aliexpress, it's sellers who screw up reporting that VAT was paid when shipping, and customs unwilling to do anything about it even though importer (buyer) has a VAT invoice.
Obviously , but point are, seller wrote a IOSS number on package. Real or fake, for unknown reasons, whether or not the IOSS number correlate with Ali invoice story dont tell.
As I understand, seller must inform a shipping company in some way, not just write an IOSS number on the package. Royal mail as example https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid-ioss

Quote
all you need do is to input your IOSS number into the correct field, where requested, on the Royal Mail shipping platform you use. If you need help calculating tax then our partner, Hurricane’s Aura service can do that in your checkout.
If you don't want to register yourself, we also have Taxamo Assure, an innovative pay-as-you-go solution which is perfect if you simply want to concentrate on selling.  It does the heavy lifting for you. All you need to do is to pay a fee per parcel – and Taxamo Assure will do the rest including calculating tax within your checkout. See below for further details.
Whichever IOSS solution you choose, Royal Mail can take your items and ensure they get delivered across the EU without delay. Just provide your IOSS number and full customs data in the pre-advice you send us.
 

Offline MT

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2021, 08:16:50 pm »
VAT was paid by Aliexpress, it's sellers who screw up reporting that VAT was paid when shipping, and customs unwilling to do anything about it even though importer (buyer) has a VAT invoice.
Obviously , but point are, seller wrote a IOSS number on package. Real or fake, for unknown reasons, whether or not the IOSS number correlate with Ali invoice story dont tell.
As I understand, seller must inform a shipping company in some way, not just write an IOSS number on the package. Royal mail as example https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid-ioss

Ofcourse they must, i assumed in the "customs deny case" that the IOSS number was on the package "transport label" and is the same IOSS number as on the VAT invoice but the story dont tell
why customs said the IOSS number didnt exist. Is there big differences between Ali seller transport labels and invoices? https://www.want.nl/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/aliexpress-package-a.jpg
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 09:34:29 pm by MT »
 

Online wraperTopic starter

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2021, 08:24:14 pm »
Ofcourse they must, i assumed in the "customs deny case" that the IOSS number was on the package "transport label" and is the same IOSS number as on the VAT invoice but the story dont tell
why customs said the IOSS number didnt exist. Is there big differences between Ali seller transport labels and invoices? https://www.want.nl/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/aliexpress-package-a.jpg
What's written on the label does not mean anything. It must be reported to the shipping company and handled differently than non IOSS shipments.
 

Offline MT

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Re: Aliexpress buying as a business from EU VAT.
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2021, 08:30:27 pm »
Dropship folks on amazon eseller forum talks about they prints IOSS number on transport label. :-//
https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/germany-to-miss-ioss-july-2021-launch-date.html
« Last Edit: October 07, 2021, 09:36:29 pm by MT »
 


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