Author Topic: alkaline battery fail! (Read 10138 times)

Eliminateur · « **on:** February 18, 2011, 01:04:12 pm »

And this is why you don't leave your AA batteries in your "abandoned" test gear:

now i have to clean that mess

Simon · « **Reply #1 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:10:27 pm »

well I bet less damage than my dad has found on his car because some jerk fitted a battery with no cap seals so acid went all over the body of the car. me guesses that the car only has a few more years of life in it as he will never get into all the nooks and cranies and the rain water has carried the acid all round the car engine compartment

Zero999 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:21:41 pm »

All he needs to do is wash the insides of the car with hydrogen peroxide solution to neutralise the acid. The good thing about HOOH is it breaks down to water and oxygen so won't leave any residue like other caustic solutions such as sodium hydroxide.

For alkaline battery leakage try spirit vinegar which has the benefit of being a volatile organic acid which means it evaporates without leaving a trace, in other words once the vinegar has dried out, the acid is gone.

Eliminateur · « **Reply #3 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:34:43 pm »

spirit vinegar, never heard of that here, alcohol vinegar is the closest

Simon · « **Reply #4 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:38:48 pm »

Quote from: Hero999 on February 18, 2011, 09:21:41 pm

All he needs to do is wash the insides of the car with hydrogen peroxide solution to neutralise the acid. The good thing about HOOH is it breaks down to water and oxygen so won't leave any residue like other caustic solutions such as sodium hydroxide.

For alkaline battery leakage try spirit vinegar which has the benefit of being a volatile organic acid which means it evaporates without leaving a trace, in other words once the vinegar has dried out, the acid is gone.

be a rather large area to clean, I got him to hose it down with a steamer and treat the known ad accessible rust areas, this was after i dumped a few bukets of water into the battery compartment

Zero999 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:46:46 pm »

Quote from: Eliminateur on February 18, 2011, 09:34:43 pm

spirit vinegar, never heard of that here, alcohol vinegar is the closest

Another name for it is white vinegar. I don't know what you call it in your country.

sonicj · « **Reply #6 on:** February 19, 2011, 01:20:23 am »

my dad has a meter that died in this manner. corrosion crept along the traces, under the soldermask. the meter isn't actually dead... it powers up and i could jumper the bad traces, but its not worth repair imo.
-sj

sonicj · « **Reply #7 on:** February 19, 2011, 01:24:15 am »

anyone know if Lithium 9V, AA, etc are capable of failing in the same manner? a few extra $ for lithium cells might well be worth the extra loot especially for rarely used battery operated devices like a backup meter.
-sj

the_raptor · « **Reply #8 on:** February 19, 2011, 05:55:41 am »

To mis-quote a great movie: When a Lithium battery fails it won't corrode. Oh no, it will explode".

Basically don't leave batteries in devices for long periods of inactivity, and throw batteries out when they reach their use by date.

sonicj · « **Reply #9 on:** February 19, 2011, 07:13:31 am »

removing batteries when a device is not going to be used for a while isn't really practical. as soon as you pull the batteries, you're going to need to use the thing. or when it comes time to use the device, you have to go rob the batteries out of some other gadget.

aren't lithium primaries the power source for implantable pacemakers?

i have a vintage synthesizer that uses a cr123 backup battery. of course its dead, but it has been installed 25 or so years w/o leaking!
-sj

the_raptor · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2011, 07:21:28 am »

Removing batteries is more practical than cleaning out a corroded battery compartment. However if you don't store devices in hot places and change out the batteries every year or so like you are supposed too then you are fairly safe.

Also long life backup batteries are constructed differently from main power batteries. You might be able to find that quality battery in AA/9 V format but it is going to be a lot more expensive per Ah and could supply a voltage that is too low for the device.

Simon · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2011, 08:23:41 am »

essentially if your leaving the meter in a box in the darkest corner of the garage or loft it's time to take the batteries out

Wim_L · « **Reply #12 on:** February 20, 2011, 02:29:17 am »

Quote from: Hero999 on February 18, 2011, 09:21:41 pm

All he needs to do is wash the insides of the car with hydrogen peroxide solution to neutralise the acid. The good thing about HOOH is it breaks down to water and oxygen so won't leave any residue like other caustic solutions such as sodium hydroxide.

Well, it won't leave a residue, but it will not effectively neutralise it either (might make matters even worse, as it's very oxidising when combined with acid). You need a base to neutralise it. Sodium hydroxide, ammonia, baking soda perhaps if you want something gentle. All of these will leave a salt deposit, which is inevitably corrosive, but it shouldn't be worse than the battery acid, and it's water soluble so you can wash it away.

Fraser · « **Reply #13 on:** February 20, 2011, 10:48:37 am »

As a word of warning....

I have had nothing but trouble with a certain well known brand of alkaline battery products that have been stored awaiting use. I used to buy boxes of batteries to build up a decent 'stock'. I have witnessed seal failures on PP3, C size, D size and very occasionally AA size cells. All failed cells/batteries were still well within their 'use by' date and sat in their boxes in a cool environment. I contacted the manufacturer regarding the failures and they just sent me replacement cells with the comment that seal failure was rare but could occur in storage and the batteries should be checked regularly and before use

I have another half dozen or so failed cells awaiting return at the moment. I will take some photos of them.

Even if you are using a piece of battery equipment regularly, I recommend occasional visual checks on the battery/cells to see if anything looks wrong, like corrosion on the cell contacts or distortion of the casing. PP3 size batteries are a real 'laugh' when they fail.... the end on one cell usually attempts to punch it's way out of the casings plastic bottom and so jams the battery inside the equipment. I had one new PP3 on the shelf that literally exploded ! One cell propelled it's guts out of the plastic bottom cap.

Photos to follow.

Fraser · « **Reply #14 on:** February 20, 2011, 11:45:18 am »

OK here are the ugly pictures of when a cell goes rogue

It is also worthy of note that the battery manufacturer is aware of problems with cell seals when their cells are used in a well known brand of rugged aluminium torch. Apparently the spring pressure on the ends of the cells can cause the cell endcap seals to fail. When a cell leaks inside the aluminium case of a torch it usually results in awfull corroded mess and the torches demise

This happened to me and I was given a new torch, batteries and a £10 voucher as compensation for my troubles.

Sionyn · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:20:33 pm »

wow a real,

A genuine PenesamiG!

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg221/scaled.php?tn=0&server=221&filename=fu8w.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

Fraser · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:48:50 pm »

While we are 'talking' leakage, let us not forget the dreaded electrolytic capacitor leakage that has plagued many electronic appliances of recent AND there is the leakage of MEMCAP Memory Capacitors and NiCad/NiMh MEMPAK's

I have repaired many equipments that had suffered total failure for no other reason than a MEMCAP or MEMPAK failure and resultant leakage corrosion. It makes for a simple diagnosis but is a challenge to repair reliably if the corrosion is extensive. The electrolyte can often penetrate teh PCB structure. This can be fatal for a multi layer PCB.

My only advice would be to check inside any used equipment that you buy to see if a MEMCAP or MEMPAK is fitted. If the equipment is over 5 years old, I replace these memory backup devices after checking that calibration data etc is not going to be lost. If such a preventative maintenance procedure does not appeal, then check the MEMCAP and MEMPAK for leakage every 6 months and at teh first sign, fit a new part. Sadly, when you discover the memory of an equipment is no longer being retained, it is often too late and leakage has already occurred.

I personally have not seen leakage from the CR/BR type lithium coin cell type memory backup technology and I prefer this to the other technologies. Rechargeable lithium coin cells are sometimes used but I am not a great fan of them as very careful charging control is needed to avoid leakage or explosion. One wheeze for you e*ay buyers..... there are many types of equipment that lock up or will not switch on once the memory back-up battery is discharged. These are often sold a 'spares or repair'. In the case of rechargeable lithium coin cells this is quite common as they do not hold their charge like primary lithium cells. All the equipment often requires is a gentle charge of teh memory backup cell followed by a full reset of the microprocessor to clear out the garbage in teh volatile memory . A very cheap repair

I attach a picture of a MEMCAP fitted to a DENON Audio CD recorder. The electrolyte disolved a diodes steel legs, corroded links and associated solder joints and finally travelled along the underside of the PCB, under the laquer, eating any thin copper track that got in its way !. Quite a protracted repair job.

FreeThinker · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2011, 01:31:01 pm »

Quote from: sonicj on February 19, 2011, 07:13:31 am

removing batteries when a device is not going to be used for a while isn't really practical. as soon as you pull the batteries, you're going to need to use the thing. or when it comes time to use the device, you have to go rob the batteries out of some other gadget

Well If you don't use it for that length of time you will need new batteries anyhow so why not store the batteries separately? 5mins putting them back in is much better than the hours spent cleaning up the mess IMHO.

Eliminateur · « **Reply #18 on:** February 20, 2011, 03:49:14 pm »

Quote from: Sionyn on February 20, 2011, 12:20:33 pm

wow a real,

A genuine PenesamiG!

http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg221/scaled.php?tn=0&server=221&filename=fu8w.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640

dude!, i have one of those... aww the picture is on my cell and i'm too lazy to download now, and i have another similar one

Fraser · « **Reply #19 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:18:38 pm »

All this talk of Alkaline's leaking made me go check the batteries I had lying around the house in various cupboards. I deliberately removed the batteries from my Maglite to avoid leakage issues and it's just as well as the pictures below show. The batteries were stored on a shelf along with the Maglites and some storage boxes. The electrolyte destroyed the melamine veneer shelf surface directly below the cell and then proceeded to travel around the sides of the plastic box adjacent to it further contaminating and damaging the shelf. Boy does this stuff travel ! When I placed the cell on card to take the picture it immediately wetted the surface so the electrolyte is very much fluid rather than just the visible corrosive crystals.

To be fair to Duracell/Procell, in this specific case the battery had a 'use by' date of 2010. However I don't expect a battery to self destruct a year after that date ! Use-By in my world means 'install and use' due to the self discharge effects, not 'This battery will leak within 1 year of the use by date'. Not impressed at all.

The lesson here.... when you do the right thing and remove batteries for equipment storage....DO NOT store the batteries in the box with the equipment or on a surface you care about

Simon · « **Reply #20 on:** February 20, 2011, 04:25:05 pm »

wow. actually 2010 was hardly 2 month ago, that sort of unprovoked leakage is shocking

FreeThinker · « **Reply #21 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:05:07 pm »

This message will self destruct in 30 seconds

Wim_L · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2011, 12:15:35 am »

Quote from: the_raptor on February 19, 2011, 07:21:28 am

Removing batteries is more practical than cleaning out a corroded battery compartment. However if you don't store devices in hot places and change out the batteries every year or so like you are supposed too then you are fairly safe.

Removing batteries often can be a problem in devices with self-tapping screws in plastic, though. Those don't last forever.


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Author Topic: alkaline battery fail! (Read 10138 times)

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