EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: brabus on September 03, 2016, 05:19:54 pm
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A recent discussion brought me my recurrent thought.
In order to live a normal life, I have to get out of my house every day with the following items:
- Cash
- Credit card
- Debit card
- Identity card
- Driving license
- Company RFID
- Smartphone
- Company phone
- House keys
- Car keys
Not to mention bicycle keys and/or passport, depending on where I need to go.
Not to mention the 5 or 6 passwords I need to type every day into various services.
If I lose any single one of those items, it's a monumental PITA (except from cash, maybe).
So, I would definitely like to wear a safe-enough underskin chip which could substitute all of the mentioned items - life would be so much easier.
Safety issues? Ok, let's talk about your PayPal account or your contactless credit card.
Who is joining the community? :)
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Yes - but I hope at no point to come across criminals who want my wallet and decide to chop my arm off to get at the chip! Wallet is likely easier to replace.
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Well they all have some disadvantages depending on how cynical you are.
A cashless society puts a significant part of your liberty in the hands of some poorly paid/trained person working for a bank, possibly in India. Or your Government, which may be even more inclined to make you homeless for political reasons.
The ability to independently and remotely verify your identity is great for a cop pulling you over, but technically you don't have to say anything.
I don't want someone chopping my arm off to steal my car or loot my house.
This is why people only use them for cats.
If there was a way to mentally disable/enable them with a predefined thought pattern, then maybe. But we may as well wait for implantable computers to be invented.
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I'm sure every government in the world would love to help you out with this serious problem. I think there is far too much potential for abuse, data theft, and most importantly, loss of privacy.
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I still want to be untraceable from time to time. In a world where privacy is almost gone the only thing left is choosing which of your thoughts/information are to be shared.
A thing i liked when i visited arizona/colorado.. and in eastern europe.. was that at any moment i could get off the main road and get to literaly freaking nowhere
I don't want someone chopping my arm off to steal my car or loot my house.
this is important too. see what happens when they steal your car (with you inside of course) in south america/africa. Every week our south african partner has a new story to tell us.
User SeanB also sharess some tales on the subject from time to time
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Cash: I do have a little with me, just in case someone come to me and ask for money with a gun.
LMAO
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I think most of the things in the list, the exceptions being cash, keys, and phones, could be done with the Estonian ID card. From what I've heard it's a pretty decent system too.
In practice I wouldn't want anything implanted that was selected on the basis of being the lowest bidder or having the best salespeople (or bribes), which seems to be the way these things usually goes...
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Cash: I do have a little with me, just in case someone come to me and ask for money with a gun.
LMAO
Only in America. Seriously, this happens. One of my friends gets robbed in his car by an armed black under a traffic light.
Haven't had the traffic light one, but can check the other 3 times.........
I liked that Nokia 8110i phone, I had it for over a decade, and had the car kit for it as well.
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When I went through japan we had an rfid pass and in that situation I would, but probably not for everything.
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One of my friends gets robbed in his car by an armed black
"asked for a donation by an angel", you should have said, :)
Otherwise, the fact is highly offensive to many people and politically incorrect to the rest. Haven't you learned that from your campus training on "safe space" and "micro aggression"?
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Who is joining the community?
If you look at the evolution on a grand scale, you will see a gradual integration of humans and machines: we ride in vehicles, fly in airplanes, lift with cranes, and calculate with computers, etc. Some of us wear pace makers, or even worse.
It is likely that in the foreseeable future, we will see more and tighter integration, and embedded ID cards, or embedded computers are truly a possibility.
Resistance is futile, ;)
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Yes, but not the phones. Becuase I can leave my phone this way, and feel freedom.
Someone should solve that you dont need passwords on websites finally, that would be the day.
Comment deleted because it was on topic on a bullshit off topic thread.
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Allowing one certain race to do shit,...
I think we live in a time where everyone is equal, but some more equal than others, :)
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When I went through japan we had an rfid pass and in that situation I would, but probably not for everything.
Is that suika card? It can be used in many convenience stores, and virtually all public transportation tools.
It was just the tourist JR pass. We were only there a month.
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So I also answered no. I'm happy with the situation as it is, where I could get off-grid by just letting some items at home. That's a piece of freedom I wouldn't want to miss. What I really would like is replacing physical with "mental" information.
Don't have your wallet? Just pay with Paypal. Drivers license missing? Passport missing? Don't have your company RFID with you? Just log in here.
That would be really neat when done right.
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Allowing one certain race to do shit,...
I think we live in a time where everyone is equal, but some more equal than others, :)
Inequality is a huge issue.
In Australia, we imprison people off shore including children who claim to be asylum seekers, and yet we allow selected foreigners (mostly shadowy rich people from China) to queue jump and purchase permanent residency here with few questions asked. That is inequality. Public privilege should never be one base upon wealth. Ironically, Labor invented this scam, but the Liberals embrace it.
In China, inequity is massive. Ignoring the corrupt communist party comrades, first line managers there "earn" 11 times the workers wages on average. In Australia it is 1.5 times.
In the US, Bill Gates has a net "worth" of $US88 billion. That's 5% of the US GDP. Sure he gives some away to good causes, but why is he fighting so hard to make more money? In contrast, a poor usually black man in the US gets released after being in jail for 25 years after DNA testing proved he is innocent but he does not get a dime in compensation (in many US states). No-one will hire him, not because of lack of skills but because of his "record". In backwater states like Louisiana, he does not even get a bus ticket out of Angola and the rest of his life is one of poverty and stolen opportunities, as the rich "good 'ol white boy" judge wishes him well in his future endeavours. That is inequality. On their one dollar note they say In God We Trust. It's utter :bullshit:.
Inequality is the biggest risk to the fabric of a cohesive society. It will likely lead to the downfall of the Communist Party in China within a few years and probably the downfall of USA Inc. unless something is done to improve equality. Remember what caused the French Revolution - inequality. I recall seeing a documentary which analysed the fall of 22 of the world's great empires. 19 were destroyed from within.
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- Cash
- Credit card
- Debit card
- Identity card
- Driving license
- Company RFID
- Smartphone
- Company phone
- House keys
- Car keys
There surely is room for compression, problem is that too many services are closed by design.
It could be possible to buy 1 "personal" ID card at a govt office, and with the built-in magnetic/rfid/nfc/other code you can register that card for most of the above services. There is no de-facto argument that makes it impossible to register ID cards in a company/personal access system.
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Inequality is a huge issue.
True, we see the term "inequality" being used for the BIG issues by establishment millionaires every day.
At least, the times we watch the subsidized propaganda TV channels.
Public privilege should never be one base upon wealth. Ironically, Labor invented this scam, but the Liberals embrace it.
Nothing ironic here. From the start it was always known that (labor=liberal=socialist) are the guys who organise ghettos and poverty,
and want to keep it or expand it.
Inequality is the biggest risk to the fabric of a cohesive society.
No, a subsidized hostile fundamental religious invasion is the biggest risk.
I have absolutely no problem with people 10x ritcher than me.
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I have absolutely no problem with people 10x ritcher than me.
Neither do I. But a someone who is 10 MILLION times richer, exploits the masses to the point where kids are starving, then you end up with a revolution. Heads roll.
One of Louis XVI's big mistakes was allowing the working poor in to service is palace and grounds of Versailles. Word of the opulence got around among the masses. The Chinese leadership censors knowledge of their families' billions of dollars in wealth from the Chinese masses for the same reason. In China, you will get imprisoned or made to disappear for publishing anything to do with the wealth of the communist leadership's families. A couple of years ago the Chinese government launched a cyber attack on certain US media after they published that the top 70 communist party members' families shared $90 billion in wealth. The communist government's biggest fear is the spread of information to their masses which can threaten the wealth or status quo of those in power.
In the West, the rich often hide themselves behind high walls and security guards or live in gated communities where their consciences cannot be pricked by having to see the poor. There were some good documentaries about that on Netflix in the USA.
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I like this. Compared to the "equal" European society, I more prefer a more competitive society, where people are pushed to work hard for the same revenue because the society develops faster.
oh yes. i had a discussion on the subject with a pal of mine which is trying to get the green card :)
I personally like the european system... everybody is being assfucked all the time by high taxes but in the moment i have to go to the doctor for whatever reason or pay for education i don't have to sell a kidney, my unconceived son and put a morgue on the house, like i would in the US. For most of the procedures i have to pay a nominal fee and for almoss all the others i have to pay the same i would for a single day of hospital room in the US... We have private (excellent) clinics too if the public healtcare in my specific area is not too good
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This thread have gone a little off track. I'll answer the original question with a "yes". I've already got a xNT NFC implant. It's fairly useful, but being able to do payments with it would be even better. Nothing really standing in the way if this tech wise, just that the banks have very little interest in doing so. They have paired up with nfcring.com for a payment ring though.
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A recent discussion brought me my recurrent thought.
In order to live a normal life, I have to get out of my house every day with the following items:
- Cash
- Credit card
- Debit card
- Identity card
- Driving license
- Company RFID
- Smartphone
- Company phone
- House keys
- Car keys
Not to mention bicycle keys and/or passport, depending on where I need to go.
Not to mention the 5 or 6 passwords I need to type every day into various services.
If I lose any single one of those items, it's a monumental PITA (except from cash, maybe).
So, I would definitely like to wear a safe-enough underskin chip which could substitute all of the mentioned items - life would be so much easier.
Safety issues? Ok, let's talk about your PayPal account or your contactless credit card.
Who is joining the community? :)
- Cash
- Credit card
- Debit card
- Identity card
- Driving license
- Company RFID
All these items go to a wallet and it only fills one pocket's trouser, besides on the same pocket(left side) you can put the keys . And the other pocket you can put the phone.
On resume only two pockets ocuppied when i arrivied to ocuppied until four pockets on my trousers :wtf:(it's increable but i hate to bring things on the hands).
I don't want someone chopping my arm off to steal my car or loot my house.
Pssst, the people of the bad life result more easy to wait you on front the home and when you arrived,they will put a knife on the neck or simply they will kidnap a familiar or all the family.
this is important too. see what happens when they steal your car (with you inside of course) in south america/africa. Every week our south african partner has a new story to tell us.
User SeanB also sharess some tales on the subject from time to time
JPortici you don't go too far because at Spain already have happened . With the Panchitos, we have express kidnapping , gangs(the Latinkings, Nietas ,Mara 13 and others) and virtual kidnapping.
But the most sad is that the STUPIDS POLITICIANS from Barcelona have declared as cultural association to the LatinKings
Only in America. Seriously, this happens. One of my friends gets robbed in his car by an armed black under a traffic light.
This happen on almost all the countries, but at the countries where have a very restricted weapon law these incidents are deliberately obfuscated for leaving on evidence.
Here if you bring a slingshot is a weapon very dangerous besides a crime. But if you go to a Jungle neighborhood where live gipsies, they have guns and shotguns until CETMEs and AK-47 that are war weapons total BANNED.
How have the gipsies achieved these weapons? It's a mistery.
I like this. Compared to the "equal" European society, I more prefer a more competitive society, where people are pushed to work hard for the same revenue because the society develops faster.
Also, I do not want to put it into a strict political debate, but I find Nazi sometimes is more superior than the nowadays society.
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I believe that you are wrong,because when the NAZIs arrived to power ,Germany already were an industrialized and had the how-know.
And you must to read the period of the Germany union with von Bismarck, where the actual germany were a Taifa kingdoms(fight between them) less industrialized than Spain ( XIX Century). Until that the prussians be tired these situation and force to unit the germans state . Then the prussians begin to industrialized the Germany.
20 years after ,the germans passed to the french and followed of very close to UK. Furthermore ,the prussians imposed the society measure as the jubilation pension,healthcare, education, etc
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Cash: I do have a little with me, just in case someone come to me and ask for money with a gun.
LMAO
Only in America. Seriously, this happens. One of my friends gets robbed in his car by an armed black under a traffic light.
Like this? xD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvEhOKkfoSo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvEhOKkfoSo)
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JPortici you don't go too far because at Spain already have happened . With the Panchitos, we have express kidnapping , gangs(the Latinkings, Nietas ,Mara 13 and others) and virtual kidnapping.
Car highjacking at gunpoint? Cooooooool :(
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In China, inequity is massive. Ignoring the corrupt communist party comrades, first line managers there "earn" 11 times the workers wages on average. In Australia it is 1.5 times.
In the US, Bill Gates has a net "worth" of $US88 billion. That's 5% of the US GDP.
I like this. Compared to the "equal" European society, I more prefer a more competitive society, where people are pushed to work hard for the same revenue because the society develops faster.
Also, I do not want to put it into a strict political debate, but I find Nazi sometimes is more superior than the nowadays society. I'm not seconding them for killing Jews or initiating wars, but what I like is the concept of no mercy to the inferior people.
Mother nature had done this billions of years to get rid of pathetic genes, and the evolution of human race is being actively halted by human themselves under the name humanity and equality, what a joke.
What a highly competitive society does is exactly what mother nature does: poor people do not have money to buy cars and houses, so not get married, then their gene extinct.
When you look at it the survival of the fittest that might seem to make sense, but when you look at it in terms of wealth, it breaks down.
A couple may have lots of money but have difficulty conceiving naturally: is it in the human race's best interest they can simply fork out for expensive fertility treatment and have children anyway? If survival of the fittest is what's important then perhaps fertility treatment should be banned?
Education is very important for gaining wealth. Someone may be very intelligent but if they've had a shitty education then the chances of them getting a good job are very low. On the other hand, someone could be average but have had a good education so get a good job.
I've nothing against a competitive society. It's ultimately a good think but everyone should be given the opportunity to be successful. In a fascist society the rich are able to suppress the poor, who will not necessary be genetically weaker than them: it does nothing for the advancement of the human race.
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Hitler!
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Education is very important for gaining wealth. Someone may be very intelligent but if they've had a shitty education then the chances of them getting a good job are very low. On the other hand, someone could be average but have had a good education so get a good job.
I've nothing against a competitive society. It's ultimately a good think but everyone should be given the opportunity to be successful. In a fascist society the rich are able to suppress the poor, who will not necessary be genetically weaker than them: it does nothing for the advancement of the human race.
I support your point. My point is to give basic education and living support to everyone in a mandatory form so that a kid's parents or him/herself cannot force this kid to drop out, so that everyone stands a chance to learn and change his own fate himself. Money or parent's social level should not be a barrier for the kid to pursue upper level of the society.
What I really think the welfare system should NOT spend money on is the kind of person no matter how many chances you gave to him, he will just blow up all money and do nothing. Do you think our society should spend tax payers' money on people that do not like to study, do not like to work, do not like to be friendly, do not like to educate their kids and do not like to plan for tomorrow?
However, since statistically well family educated kids tend to compete better compared to poorly family educated kids, and that's why I said if someone sucks, he should not reproduce. However if he already has a kid, then the society has the responsibility to raise the kid in a fashion that he can grow up with at least some degree of fairness in education.
Spaniards ,Franco has returned :-DD :-DD :-DD
Fuero de los españoles- Charter of the Spanish
http://www.e-torredebabel.com/leyes/constituciones/fuero-espanoles-1945.htm (http://www.e-torredebabel.com/leyes/constituciones/fuero-espanoles-1945.htm)
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What I really think the welfare system should NOT spend money on is the kind of person no matter how many chances you gave to him, he will just blow up all money and do nothing. Do you think our society should spend tax payers' money on people that do not like to study, do not like to work, do not like to be friendly, do not like to educate their kids and do not like to plan for tomorrow?
in a democracy where 50+ percent of the people don't pay income taxes, it is hard to get elected with that kind of message.
The education system in the US is screwed in that 1) the teachers' unions elected officials who negotiate against them on behalf of the tax payers - who do you think is going to win there? 2) no culture of family involvement in some parts of the society.
Money is the least of the issue here.
Sooner or later, I think you will see a privatization of the education business, as the pension liabilities kill the finances of local governments.
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for federal income taxes, 15% of **marginal** tax rate applies to taxable income up to about $40K. Taxable income is AGI - deduction (about $5 - 10K).
So for you to pay a blended rate of 20%, your agi is well into $100K, or 2x of average household income.
alternatively, for $17K of income, your first $10K is tax free (deductable). your remaining $7K is taxed at 10%, for a blended rate of $0.7K/17K = ~6%.
So you either grossly overpaid for your income levels, or you have significant capital gains.
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No, it reminds me too much of "the mark of the beast", and it would probably be exploited, especially the first generation. I presume it would be RFID or some kind of wireless, and hackers would eventually find a way to exploit it to steal your ID etc.
If it was not for the idea that governments are hell bent to get into our affairs, what I'd like to see is a general card that acts as ID and bank card, all in one. if you need a license or any other type of ID for something (ex: hunting) it just gets tacked on to that card.
On the other hand the more you combine stuff the easier it is for government to spy on you. Then again they do it anyway so what's the difference really.
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what I'd like to see is a general card that acts as ID and bank card, all in one.
Imaging you dropped your card and someone picked it up, then make up a little bit, then go the your bank... It's not a good idea to combine bank card with ID card IMHO.
True but it's not any different than losing your wallet. But yeah personally, I leave my ID in the car (driver's license) and don't like the bulkiness of a wallet so don't carry that either.
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'o I calculated as 15%+5.75%. It seems like after deduction I pay 11.55%'
It depends on what you meant by 'after deduction'.
If your gross income is 17k, your taxable income is 6k, making you subject to the 10 percent bracket, comfortably.
So your blended tax rate is well within 10 percent.
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what I'd like to see is a general card that acts as ID and bank card, all in one.
Imaging you dropped your card and someone picked it up, then make up a little bit, then go the your bank... It's not a good idea to combine bank card with ID card IMHO.
Without passsword , without coding number table and call sms , i doubt that "good samaritan" can retrieve money. Only he can to go a supermarket,he will be record by CCTV when he pays , he will commit a misappropriation or rob(depently the quantity) .
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Cash: I do have a little with me, just in case someone come to me and ask for money with a gun.
Debit card: I use it all the time.
Credit card: I do not spend future money.
It's far more sensible to use your credit card for all purchases rather than a debit card. I do not know anyone that uses a debit card for anything other than cash withdrawals.
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in a democracy where 50+ percent of the people don't pay income taxes, it is hard to get elected with that kind of message.
Mind tell me where you live in where 50+% do not pay income tax??? I make 1/3 average household income yet I still pay 20.5% income tax.
Belgium, for example. If you count those who de-facto do not pay income tax.
Easy to get 12.000/month from the state, give 55% back, and describe yourself being a taxpayer. They are taxreceivers.
60 to 70 % of the population here are taxreceivers. Including those "entrepreneurs" who scan our 7 levels of goverment to spot subsidies.
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Cash: I do have a little with me, just in case someone come to me and ask for money with a gun.
Debit card: I use it all the time.
Credit card: I do not spend future money.
It's far more sensible to use your credit card for all purchases rather than a debit card. I do not know anyone that uses a debit card for anything other than cash withdrawals.
Yep, I use it also for booking hotels and as deposit for car rent.
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Cash: I do have a little with me, just in case someone come to me and ask for money with a gun.
Debit card: I use it all the time.
Credit card: I do not spend future money.
It's far more sensible to use your credit card for all purchases rather than a debit card. I do not know anyone that uses a debit card for anything other than cash withdrawals.
I used to pay with debit all the time, but now I tend to use credit because of the points.
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...However, since statistically well family educated kids tend to compete better compared to poorly family educated kids...'
In Australia, those from public government schools who enter university generally do better academically than those from private wealthy schools. But the private schools get higher VCE (secondary school final year exam) scores that public school kids. Ironic, but the reason is the rich kids get a lot more handed out on a plate, but the poorer public school kids have to learn for themselves which is a great tool for university. Unfairly, the poorer kids have to have a part time job which affects their studies, but the rich kids have parents who shower them with money whilst they study.
I have a number of friends who came from families back in Sri Lanka and India where they were able to exploit servants to do everything for them. As a result they have few if any practical skills, almost cannot even change a light bulb without assistance. There are exceptions of course. It is similar with the public versus private schools.
I have found the private school educated generally do well on the management ladder but pretty hopeless when it comes to being strong engineers technically. The private school "ponces" generally compete better for money, position and status. But the poorer public school educated generally make much better engineers from where the rubber-hit-the-road skills perspective.
Most of our politicians are from private schools with wealthy families and many have degrees in law, and are generally disliked and distrusted, as they often demonstrate how much out-of-touch they are with those who were born with a plastic spoon in their mouths. You will always find those who are disadvantaged though no fault of their own.
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A few months back I accidentally left my wallet, keys and phone in the lab. I had no option but to walk home in the dark completely "off grid" without anything, and it felt awesome knowing that the only way I could be ID'd was via my dental records 8)
Having a chip under your arm, you'd never escape that. But the worst of that is knowing you never escape it. Well, ok, there is always a knife...
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A few months back I accidentally left my wallet, keys and phone in the lab. I had no option but to walk home in the dark completely "off grid" without anything, and it felt awesome knowing that the only way I could be ID'd was via my dental records 8)
Having a chip under your arm, you'd never escape that. But the worst of that is knowing you never escape it. Well, ok, there is always a knife...
Eventually it will be illegal not to carry ID. Maybe within 10 years. There was a time in Victoria up until the early 70's where an adult could be arrested for vagrancy if they were found in the street without a dollar or more in their pocket.
I have two friends who are now doing the Camino de Santiago walk in southern France and Spain. The need their mobile phone just "in case". That would be the last thing I would take. Just disconnect from the Brave New World and enjoy the challenge of the 800km walk with no technological and emotional baggage to hang on to. Mobile phone junkies would rather die without their latest hit of screen swiping.
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Maybe your friends bringing a phone for emergency use rather than for posting selfies to Facebook.
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Maybe your friends bringing a phone for emergency use rather than for posting selfies to Facebook.
Maybe, but I hear parents say kids have mobile phones for an emergency. In my day when kids went out blowing up things with firecrackers, exploring caves and hiking, building billy carts, riding bicycles and walking to school, we had no mobile phones for emergency. And you know what, kids seemed to be a lot happier in those days and parents less concerned. We didn't need mobile phones. The days of Homer Hickam in October Sky are long gone.
Next parents will need their kids micro-chipped so if by chance they are killed, they can be identified. These days tourist spend more time looking at their blasted mobile phones than exploring the sights.
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Definitely a no.
I want that governments get less involved in my private life and details. Not more.
With a chip than can program whatever THEY like. As if people agree with everything a government think is best.
Second, this goes very close to the fact that they own something of your body. Which is ethical very debitable (and I think against some laws, here at least)
I absolutely don't understand why the "yes" answer contains the word "freedom".
It's by far less freedom and having even more control over people(s privacy)