Author Topic: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands  (Read 6197 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ed.Kloonk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4000
  • Country: au
  • Cat video aficionado
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2022, 06:50:06 am »
The color look boarderline, more brown than red. So a color regocnition app on a phone would not really help.
I don't hink there are strict standards on the colors, more like ROHS limitations that prevent some pigments (e.g. Hg containing red). red paint is often relatively transparent, so that the green background could effect the color.

I reckoned that's why the color codes around red/brown and blue/violet are adjacent to allow for a bit of hit and miss. Doesn't help, I know but imagine how interesting it would be if the colors values chosen were random!
iratus parum formica
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4000
  • Country: au
  • Cat video aficionado
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2022, 07:08:33 am »
This conversation makes me wonder if there may be a need for some kind of color recognition device. Not just for resistors/inductors or other electronic devices, but more general. Perhaps something that could be built into a pair of glasses.

But then, perhaps that already exists. I don't have time to do that search.

Our illustrious reg authorities back in the dark ages decided to select red/black/green for active/neutral/earth for what is called building wire used in houses. Of course people with red/green deficiencies (their words, not mine) (most common, I believe) showed up. So they added a yellow stripe to the green one. Or sometimes, you'd swear it is green stripe on yellow. 
iratus parum formica
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 29810
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2022, 07:45:58 am »
Tim88
Do yourself a big favour and get a set of smart tweezers, those that have LCR and ESR measurement capability.
You’ll then be covered for TH and SMD.
There are cheaper and dearer but these are excellent value that a number of us have given input into their design:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/design-a-new-precision-lcr-tweezers/
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14117
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2022, 08:03:10 am »
Definitely 22 - inductors like this are not high precision parts, so unlikely to exist in E24 values
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline Miyuki

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 908
  • Country: cz
    • Me on youtube
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2022, 08:35:56 am »
Those color stripes are sometimes so annoying, especially when they use some crap paints that tend to shift hues over time or temperature
I know the tiny numbers have other issues and always ended in a bad place when inserted into the board. But at least it was clear and not a guessing name.

But once you have a picture taken you can use some graphics app to identify colors, even the dumbest MSPaint will allow you to show R,G,B, or a Hue value to say what color it is
 

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #30 on: August 25, 2022, 08:52:15 am »
Those color stripes are sometimes so annoying, especially when they use some crap paints that tend to shift hues over time or temperature
I know the tiny numbers have other issues and always ended in a bad place when inserted into the board. But at least it was clear and not a guessing name.

But once you have a picture taken you can use some graphics app to identify colors, even the dumbest MSPaint will allow you to show R,G,B, or a Hue value to say what color it is

But if you try it with these pictures it depends on where you sample the color. Also has to do with compression like jpeg, where colors might blurr. Zooming in might help though.

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2022, 08:58:16 am »
Our illustrious reg authorities back in the dark ages decided to select red/black/green for active/neutral/earth for what is called building wire used in houses. Of course people with red/green deficiencies (their words, not mine) (most common, I believe) showed up. So they added a yellow stripe to the green one. Or sometimes, you'd swear it is green stripe on yellow.

With the colors you mention for building wiring, you would be in for a surprise in the Netherlands or France. In both countries blue is neutral, and black is live for lamps comming from a switch to connect to the light socket. In France red is usually live, but brown is also used, while in the Netherlands brown is live. Earth is the same here, green with a yellow stripe.

Offline madires

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8276
  • Country: de
  • A qualified hobbyist ;)
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2022, 09:32:05 am »
On the first picture the colors are darker. So it's hard to tell if L1/2's first two rings are red or brown. The third ring looks more like a dark brown than black. The second picture shows brigther colors. The first two rings are red and the third is brown. I'd say L1 and L2 are 220µH.
 

Online JohanH

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 669
  • Country: fi
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2022, 10:39:07 am »

With the colors you mention for building wiring, you would be in for a surprise in the Netherlands or France. In both countries blue is neutral, and black is live for lamps comming from a switch to connect to the light socket. In France red is usually live, but brown is also used, while in the Netherlands brown is live. Earth is the same here, green with a yellow stripe.

European countries (including UK) have adapted international standard  IEC 60446, where blue is neutral, green/yellow earth and brown is live. With three phases, live colours are brown, black and grey. Live red is old colour coding from prehistoric times. Of course there are still old installations with the old colour coding.
 

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2022, 11:03:55 am »

With the colors you mention for building wiring, you would be in for a surprise in the Netherlands or France. In both countries blue is neutral, and black is live for lamps comming from a switch to connect to the light socket. In France red is usually live, but brown is also used, while in the Netherlands brown is live. Earth is the same here, green with a yellow stripe.

European countries (including UK) have adapted international standard  IEC 60446, where blue is neutral, green/yellow earth and brown is live. With three phases, live colours are brown, black and grey. Live red is old colour coding from prehistoric times. Of course there are still old installations with the old colour coding.

Unless this was very very recent you should tell that to the French. Red is still very much used and sold when it comes to single wires. In cables with only 3 conductors it is either brown or black that is present for live. At least last time I bought which would be about 6 years ago. They also tended to use white and purple for switch wires but could also be used as live. This to distinguish between different circuit breaker groups.

Build an extension to the existing house we own and redid a big part of the wiring in the existing house. Looked into the French rules at that time, which is about 10 years ago. The French rules differ from the Dutch rules.

Online JohanH

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 669
  • Country: fi
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2022, 11:21:07 am »

Unless this was very very recent you should tell that to the French.

OK, that's laziness from their part. Most European countries are expected to adapt the standards. Let's check again in a few years... In my opinion things like these should be enforced within EU (relates to electrical safety etc.).
 

Offline Zenith

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 509
  • Country: england
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2022, 11:23:10 am »
Tim88.

I am slightly red-green colour blind. For instance I can't tell the brown from the reds on some sets of snooker balls.

The resistor colour code is an invention of the Devil, especially when used with small 0.5W or 0.25W resistors. I usually use a DMM. I find I can usually use the colour code if I use a watchmaker's eye glass and good light. Maybe that's worth a try. Otherwise get an LCR meter.
 

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2022, 11:32:55 am »
I zoomed in on L1 and my verdict is red red brown :)

Offline Tim88Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Country: us
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2022, 07:42:09 pm »
Thanks for all the input, one post made me think to try reducing the colour depth so I reduced it to 16 colours. L1 and L2 look red, red, brown to me, much easier to see. Colour blindness really doesn't bother me in everyday life except for daggum resistor/inductor stripes and finding specific wire colours. Red-green-brown-grey and blue-purple both look similiar depending on the shade.

On a funny sidebar, when I joined the Navy years ago, I had to identify 3 red, 3 brown and 3 green yarn balls of out a box when I failed the Colorblind test. I thought, well, that shouldn't be too bad, just have to separate the red, brown and green. However... There was not just one shade of each colour, there was 50 million shades of each! To this day, I don't know how I passed that test. I found out in kindergarten I was colour blind when I drew a crayon pic of a house on a hill and coloured the grass grey! |O

Will desolder those when I get time, still taking bets on the right value!

 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 29810
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2022, 08:57:16 pm »
Thanks for all the input, one post made me think to try reducing the colour depth so I reduced it to 16 colours. L1 and L2 look red, red, brown to me, much easier to see. Colour blindness really doesn't bother me in everyday life except for daggum resistor/inductor stripes and finding specific wire colours. Red-green-brown-grey and blue-purple both look similiar depending on the shade.

On a funny sidebar, when I joined the Navy years ago, I had to identify 3 red, 3 brown and 3 green yarn balls of out a box when I failed the Colorblind test. I thought, well, that shouldn't be too bad, just have to separate the red, brown and green. However... There was not just one shade of each colour, there was 50 million shades of each! To this day, I don't know how I passed that test. I found out in kindergarten I was colour blind when I drew a crayon pic of a house on a hill and coloured the grass grey! |O

Will desolder those when I get time, still taking bets on the right value!

(Attachment Link)
Yes often we need lift a leg to get a sensible measurement however there are other ways, a very old one called the razor blade technique. These days we would instead use a scalpel or snap off blade knife to break a nearby trace, get the measurement and later apply a solder bridge over the cut.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15797
  • Country: fr
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2022, 09:08:25 pm »
Brown and dark red are either very close or for some brown shades, the same thing. So distinguishing the two is often pretty hard and not just for color blind people. Especially true on photos for which we don't have the full lighting context.

Some of you may remember people going nuts on social networks about the color of a dress: https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/why-the-dress-lives-on-infamy-one-year-later-black-blue-white-gold/
 

Offline 25 CPS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: ca
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2022, 09:32:27 pm »
I'm colourblind and remember one of my professors way back when saying, "I think the bands on resistors are scientifically designed to make you go blind," when we were discussing it once.

Several things I've found handy are being able to change lighting between incandescent and LED even if it's shining a handheld LED flashlight can help different coloured bands stand out.  Also having some plausible candidate values in mind based on the circuit the parts are in can help rule out some colour possibilities that just don't make sense given the context. 

Most of all, a DMM and LCR meter are the best thing to have.  This way you get an actual value, rather than a stated value, plus it avoids another pitfall with colour codes that can affect everyone regardless of vision:  Age and/or heat related deterioration of the colour coded bands can make them incredibly difficult or impossible to read.  Once that happens, a measured or schematic/parts list value is what you're going to have to go with.
 

Offline Bicurico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1816
  • Country: pt
    • VMA's Satellite Blog
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2022, 10:17:58 pm »
I've been curious about those "color blind" correction glasses that are touted online, but I haven't bothered when they are all made with tinted lenses (and I would like to use them inside). They supposedly improve color contrast and I'm sure that in theory that could work, unless you have a total lack of color perception. With good lighting I anyway see the difference, so for me they wouldn't be a big benefit anyway.

These glasses are amazing. While I don't need them, I have recommended them to students of mine.

They work by filtering frequencies. Colour blind people have receptors that have overlapping response to green/red. The glasses simply work as a filter eliminating a frequency range in-between red and green or blue, whatever.

It does work, but color resolution is reduced.
 
The following users thanked this post: JohanH

Offline 25 CPS

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 570
  • Country: ca
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #43 on: August 26, 2022, 12:31:37 am »
I've been curious about those "color blind" correction glasses that are touted online, but I haven't bothered when they are all made with tinted lenses (and I would like to use them inside). They supposedly improve color contrast and I'm sure that in theory that could work, unless you have a total lack of color perception. With good lighting I anyway see the difference, so for me they wouldn't be a big benefit anyway.

These glasses are amazing. While I don't need them, I have recommended them to students of mine.

They work by filtering frequencies. Colour blind people have receptors that have overlapping response to green/red. The glasses simply work as a filter eliminating a frequency range in-between red and green or blue, whatever.

It does work, but color resolution is reduced.

This is a bit of a tough one since colourblindness takes so many forms.  The overlap issue that the glasses can help out with by notching out the areas of visible spectrum that are doubled up isn't present in any of the -opia types of colourblindness where the sensitivity is severely attenuated or missing entirely.  For example, the glasses won't help much for someone with protanopia since red isn't partially overlapped with something else that can be separated out by notching out the overlap, the red's completely gone.
 

Offline Warpspeed

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 45
  • Country: au
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #44 on: August 26, 2022, 02:46:43 am »
Is that grey, or is it white ?
Is that yellow, or orange, or maybe its brown ?
Red, or perhaps brown.... who knows ????

Nothing wrong with your eyesight, but the terrible quality paint, or whatever it is they use.
Time does not help, and if the thing has ever been hot, all bets are off.
Often its not obvious which end to start reading from.

Best solution is a way to test parts, a multimeter at least.

But you can buy low cost component testing devices that are especially useful to identify the basic type of semiconductor devices, as well as the value of most resistors, capacitors and inductors.  Not hugely expensive but extremely useful.
I bought an earlier version of this a long time ago:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/265208502923?hash=item3dbfa89a8b:g:vH0AAOSwNJRgEc~z&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA4IluZckAF%2BuVgDj4CtuhyeHbrOwfxqW3bfuCtZGsYy4AoXppTjJaF2UK6NVRMkBelPnVfqKaxMfqllJmxlmB3at6TKNt%2B5x%2B0atNHRmb2KdAHZSMtA2hvsXohebskOzSFmzgif0FYmxFKk6aNHB4fYFxWnqz%2FKgd61KySqS7OXvmDN52BtAh5F6QYp5Z6KsEIStB6nj2L%2BgnmqgwKM%2FhfUX7%2BELy5wZOGLK5I9IgS%2BkdJy5%2BAwnbAFxIRbItSphErXTRW7Qbs1JLLawv%2FMlMVgeBj474RmcNPjlxGfBrbt17%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR5i4wIDbYA
 

Online JohanH

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 669
  • Country: fi
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2022, 06:01:08 am »

This is a bit of a tough one since colourblindness takes so many forms.  The overlap issue that the glasses can help out with by notching out the areas of visible spectrum that are doubled up isn't present in any of the -opia types of colourblindness where the sensitivity is severely attenuated or missing entirely.  For example, the glasses won't help much for someone with protanopia since red isn't partially overlapped with something else that can be separated out by notching out the overlap, the red's completely gone.

I have an issue with the terminology. Calling everyone with color vision deficiency "color blind" is flatly wrong. When I took the color test first time, the nurse flatly stated, "oh, you can't become an electrician now when you are color blind", even if the test showed I only had an issue with some red-green shades. I could even hear her snickering when I didn't see a number on one of the test pages that she could see! I have no issue separating red and green cables, or color of traffic lights, it's only closer shades of red and green I have an issue with. It's like even the professionals don't get it, that there are indefinite shades of colors and it's the majority's color vision that has defined where the boundaries go between different basic colors and shades. Someone with protanopia can correctly be called color blind, but if you have a lesser deficiency and can distinguish separate basic colors, it shouldn't be called "blindness". Clearly the tests are created so, that you can determine if the person is totally blind, or only has a certain degree of color deficiency. They should have made a numbered scale for it, just like for normal vision. I get that the scale can't be made accurate, but at least it would give an indication.
 

Offline pcprogrammer

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4670
  • Country: nl
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #46 on: August 26, 2022, 08:25:17 am »
I have an issue with the terminology. Calling everyone with color vision deficiency "color blind" is flatly wrong. When I took the color test first time, the nurse flatly stated, "oh, you can't become an electrician now when you are color blind", even if the test showed I only had an issue with some red-green shades. I could even hear her snickering when I didn't see a number on one of the test pages that she could see! I have no issue separating red and green cables, or color of traffic lights, it's only closer shades of red and green I have an issue with. It's like even the professionals don't get it, that there are indefinite shades of colors and it's the majority's color vision that has defined where the boundaries go between different basic colors and shades. Someone with protanopia can correctly be called color blind, but if you have a lesser deficiency and can distinguish separate basic colors, it shouldn't be called "blindness". Clearly the tests are created so, that you can determine if the person is totally blind, or only has a certain degree of color deficiency. They should have made a numbered scale for it, just like for normal vision. I get that the scale can't be made accurate, but at least it would give an indication.

We are sliding of the original topic of identifying inductors, but you have a fair point. And we all have to be aware that color perception is an individual concept. I have differences in blue between the left and right eye, I can clearly see this when looking at the sky. There is a slight color shift when I look with only one eye open.

Offline Bicurico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1816
  • Country: pt
    • VMA's Satellite Blog
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2022, 10:31:22 am »
I have over-simplified how the glasses work, but yes:

- They work by filtering out frequencies which the patient receptors of different base colors will overlap.
- There are many different causes for what is known as "color blindness": some people only have two color receptors, others have too much overlapping frequencies, etc.
- The manufacturer of these glasses offers an online test that helps determining of the glasses will work for you: please take a look at https://enchroma.com/pages/how-enchroma-glasses-work

The link describes how the glasses work and they offer the test.

Sorry for being offtopic, but it hurts me that there are people with some forms of color blindness that could dramatically improve the way they perceive the world.

Offline Tim88Topic starter

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 99
  • Country: us
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2022, 09:48:31 pm »

This is a bit of a tough one since colourblindness takes so many forms.  The overlap issue that the glasses can help out with by notching out the areas of visible spectrum that are doubled up isn't present in any of the -opia types of colourblindness where the sensitivity is severely attenuated or missing entirely.  For example, the glasses won't help much for someone with protanopia since red isn't partially overlapped with something else that can be separated out by notching out the overlap, the red's completely gone.

I have an issue with the terminology. Calling everyone with color vision deficiency "color blind" is flatly wrong. When I took the color test first time, the nurse flatly stated, "oh, you can't become an electrician now when you are color blind", even if the test showed I only had an issue with some red-green shades. I could even hear her snickering when I didn't see a number on one of the test pages that she could see! I have no issue separating red and green cables, or color of traffic lights, it's only closer shades of red and green I have an issue with. It's like even the professionals don't get it, that there are indefinite shades of colors and it's the majority's color vision that has defined where the boundaries go between different basic colors and shades. Someone with protanopia can correctly be called color blind, but if you have a lesser deficiency and can distinguish separate basic colors, it shouldn't be called "blindness". Clearly the tests are created so, that you can determine if the person is totally blind, or only has a certain degree of color deficiency. They should have made a numbered scale for it, just like for normal vision. I get that the scale can't be made accurate, but at least it would give an indication.

This is a coulour blindness test I took a few years ago in the military. It does provide a "scale" of each eye RGB deficiency. I thought it was a neat test...

1574857-0
 

Online nctnico

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28429
  • Country: nl
    • NCT Developments
Re: Am colour blind, need help identifying bands
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2022, 10:15:36 pm »
I've been curious about those "color blind" correction glasses that are touted online, but I haven't bothered when they are all made with tinted lenses (and I would like to use them inside). They supposedly improve color contrast and I'm sure that in theory that could work, unless you have a total lack of color perception. With good lighting I anyway see the difference, so for me they wouldn't be a big benefit anyway.

These glasses are amazing. While I don't need them, I have recommended them to students of mine.

They work by filtering frequencies. Colour blind people have receptors that have overlapping response to green/red. The glasses simply work as a filter eliminating a frequency range in-between red and green or blue, whatever.

It does work, but color resolution is reduced.
That looks interesting! One of my relatives is color blind. He didn't found out until 16 or so after doing an online test to confirm is suspicion. He went to the doctor to verify but the doctor said that they didn't really have a test for it (and thus nothing in terms of help / aiding as well).
« Last Edit: August 26, 2022, 10:20:08 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf