Author Topic: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!  (Read 26619 times)

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Offline coppice

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #175 on: June 29, 2023, 09:09:40 pm »
The law in many parts of the world, especially Europe has slowly being shifting towards criminalising anything which might offend a minority.
If you criminalise vague notions of offence you criminalise everything. There isn't a single thing I can say that won't offend someone. We have a duty to offend, although its impolite to make a habit of it.
 

Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #176 on: June 29, 2023, 10:12:59 pm »
Quote
I've noticed as society has become progressively safer, the bar to what constitutes harm has been lowered.
When seat belts became compulsory A&E departments went quiet, then the injured slowly crept back up. Saying the best safety measure for a car is a big spike sticking out of the middle of the steering wheel is not just said in jest. People slowly bring their risks to some equilibrium. Now society has become so safe they are making up bogus risks to achieve some weird kind of equilibrium.

I think there is some truth to that. Cars in my opinion are too safe now, they go to absurd lengths for safety which makes them very complicated and expensive and a lot of these safety assist features simply enable people to engage in risky behavior.

Yes, making a car safer will be more expensive than a car that is unsafe.  Drawing the line is an arbitrary choice.  But it is a choice that must be made.  It's easy to point fingers and claim things are done badly, especially when a person doesn't actually know anything about the details.
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Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #177 on: June 29, 2023, 10:16:01 pm »
Quote
I've noticed as society has become progressively safer, the bar to what constitutes harm has been lowered.
When seat belts became compulsory A&E departments went quiet, then the injured slowly crept back up. Saying the best safety measure for a car is a big spike sticking out of the middle of the steering wheel is not just said in jest. People slowly bring their risks to some equilibrium. Now society has become so safe they are making up bogus risks to achieve some weird kind of equilibrium.

Oh, yes.  When I drive, I don't worry with the speedometer.  I maintain a constant risk level as indicated by the risk-o-meter.  I'm so glad they added those.  I understand Tesla is going to incorporate that into the autopilot, enabling the car to operate at speeds only limited by perceived risk. 
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Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #178 on: June 29, 2023, 10:17:50 pm »
Quote
I've noticed as society has become progressively safer, the bar to what constitutes harm has been lowered.
When seat belts became compulsory A&E departments went quiet, then the injured slowly crept back up. Saying the best safety measure for a car is a big spike sticking out of the middle of the steering wheel is not just said in jest. People slowly bring their risks to some equilibrium. Now society has become so safe they are making up bogus risks to achieve some weird kind of equilibrium.

I think there is some truth to that. Cars in my opinion are too safe now, they go to absurd lengths for safety which makes them very complicated and expensive and a lot of these safety assist features simply enable people to engage in risky behavior.

It's especially annoying that the annual death rate is still so high.  In the US,  it's around 30,000 to 35,000 each year.  If those safety features are not going to save us all, then we need to ditch them and let every man fend for himself!
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #179 on: June 29, 2023, 10:32:04 pm »
The law in many parts of the world, especially Europe has slowly being shifting towards criminalising anything which might offend a minority.
If you criminalise vague notions of offence you criminalise everything.

Yes, but that's maybe the whole point.
Getting people not to really know where they stand relative to the law, always on the fence.

Giving clear rules and enforcing them consistently is how you train animals.
Unclear rules that you sometimes enforce, sometimes not, this is how you turn a pet into a crazy dysfunctional living being. ::)
 
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Offline coppice

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #180 on: June 29, 2023, 11:02:59 pm »
Quote
I've noticed as society has become progressively safer, the bar to what constitutes harm has been lowered.
When seat belts became compulsory A&E departments went quiet, then the injured slowly crept back up. Saying the best safety measure for a car is a big spike sticking out of the middle of the steering wheel is not just said in jest. People slowly bring their risks to some equilibrium. Now society has become so safe they are making up bogus risks to achieve some weird kind of equilibrium.

Oh, yes.  When I drive, I don't worry with the speedometer.  I maintain a constant risk level as indicated by the risk-o-meter.  I'm so glad they added those.  I understand Tesla is going to incorporate that into the autopilot, enabling the car to operate at speeds only limited by perceived risk.
Now there speaks someone who has never looked at the statistics of how people actually behave when regulations change.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #181 on: June 30, 2023, 12:25:10 am »
Quote
I've noticed as society has become progressively safer, the bar to what constitutes harm has been lowered.
When seat belts became compulsory A&E departments went quiet, then the injured slowly crept back up. Saying the best safety measure for a car is a big spike sticking out of the middle of the steering wheel is not just said in jest. People slowly bring their risks to some equilibrium. Now society has become so safe they are making up bogus risks to achieve some weird kind of equilibrium.

Oh, yes.  When I drive, I don't worry with the speedometer.  I maintain a constant risk level as indicated by the risk-o-meter.  I'm so glad they added those.  I understand Tesla is going to incorporate that into the autopilot, enabling the car to operate at speeds only limited by perceived risk.

That's not how it works, it's not like people perform some kind of scientific calculation, but they are definitely less cautious the safer they perceive the vehicle to be. People will text, play with the radio, drive too fast for conditions, etc, and this is getting worse and worse.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #182 on: June 30, 2023, 12:33:33 am »
It's especially annoying that the annual death rate is still so high.  In the US,  it's around 30,000 to 35,000 each year.  If those safety features are not going to save us all, then we need to ditch them and let every man fend for himself!

That's bordering on a strawman argument. We don't need to ditch all the safety features, but I do think we could ditch some of them. Get rid of stuff like lane departure warnings and automatic lane holding, automatic braking, etc. I'd love to get rid of automatic transmissions too but I know that would never fly. Now they need stuff like active stability systems because people are too dumb to figure out that a stupidly tall SUV doesn't handle like a roadster. When you reduce driver workload it is enabling people to focus on other things, most often that is their mobile phone, or sometimes the gadgets integrated into the car itself. These stupid infotainment systems are so complicated that people play with the touchscreens on those while flying down the highway and don't pay attention to where they're going. Then there are the backup cameras and backup warning systems that people become completely reliant on, multiple times I've seen somebody back right over something because it didn't trigger the stupid beeping sound and they weren't even looking behind them. There needs to be a focus on pushing people to focus on DRIVING THE CAR when they're driving a car. Put down the phone, quit fooling with the radio, stop putting on makeup, eating lunch and everything else, and just drive the goddamned car, that's your one task when you're behind the wheel. Whenever I bus to the office I constantly see people doing all manner of things while driving that in my mind you just don't do. When I drive, I focus 100% on driving, and the result is after nearly 3 decades of doing so I have still never caused an accident.
 
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Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #183 on: June 30, 2023, 05:05:53 am »
Quote
I've noticed as society has become progressively safer, the bar to what constitutes harm has been lowered.
When seat belts became compulsory A&E departments went quiet, then the injured slowly crept back up. Saying the best safety measure for a car is a big spike sticking out of the middle of the steering wheel is not just said in jest. People slowly bring their risks to some equilibrium. Now society has become so safe they are making up bogus risks to achieve some weird kind of equilibrium.

Oh, yes.  When I drive, I don't worry with the speedometer.  I maintain a constant risk level as indicated by the risk-o-meter.  I'm so glad they added those.  I understand Tesla is going to incorporate that into the autopilot, enabling the car to operate at speeds only limited by perceived risk.

That's not how it works, it's not like people perform some kind of scientific calculation,

Sure they do.  Don't you have a risk factor setting on your cruise control?


Quote
but they are definitely less cautious the safer they perceive the vehicle to be. People will text, play with the radio, drive too fast for conditions, etc, and this is getting worse and worse.

So, we do need to put a spike on the steering wheel?  To prevent fast lane changes and cornering, the wheel itself should have razor blades.  We can find all manner of things to make cars seem more dangerous.  I bet that will make the much safer.

I'm not going to stop saying stupid things, until you do.  :P
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Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #184 on: June 30, 2023, 05:11:12 am »
It's especially annoying that the annual death rate is still so high.  In the US,  it's around 30,000 to 35,000 each year.  If those safety features are not going to save us all, then we need to ditch them and let every man fend for himself!

That's bordering on a strawman argument.

Which side of the border?  Will I need a passport to cross?


Quote
We don't need to ditch all the safety features, but I do think we could ditch some of them. Get rid of stuff like lane departure warnings and automatic lane holding, automatic braking, etc.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.  I give your opinions all the consideration they deserve.


Quote
I'd love to get rid of automatic transmissions too but I know that would never fly. Now they need stuff like active stability systems because people are too dumb to figure out that a stupidly tall SUV doesn't handle like a roadster. When you reduce driver workload it is enabling people to focus on other things, most often that is their mobile phone, or sometimes the gadgets integrated into the car itself. These stupid infotainment systems are so complicated that people play with the touchscreens on those while flying down the highway and don't pay attention to where they're going. Then there are the backup cameras and backup warning systems that people become completely reliant on, multiple times I've seen somebody back right over something because it didn't trigger the stupid beeping sound and they weren't even looking behind them. There needs to be a focus on pushing people to focus on DRIVING THE CAR when they're driving a car. Put down the phone, quit fooling with the radio, stop putting on makeup, eating lunch and everything else, and just drive the goddamned car, that's your one task when you're behind the wheel. Whenever I bus to the office I constantly see people doing all manner of things while driving that in my mind you just don't do. When I drive, I focus 100% on driving, and the result is after nearly 3 decades of doing so I have still never caused an accident.

You seem to be the type of person who thinks everyone else is a moron.  All problems are caused by others being morons.  Your entire rational is that other people drive like morons, so instead of making the roads safer by any means we can, we should simply whine about how other people are causing all the problems on the roads. 

I hope that someday, you might actually look at a fact.  But then you would need to recognize it, which you might be no longer able to do.
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #185 on: June 30, 2023, 08:40:33 am »
So, we do need to put a spike on the steering wheel?

Wouldn't help. Initially it might have a big effect (depending on whether the driver realised how dangerous it was - some wouldn't) but the long the driver didn't get spiked the more relaxed they get about it. They would be used to it.

Consider things like chainsaw use: professionals (appear to) always use proper protective clothing because they do it so often it is just habit, whereas your average domestic gardener will buy and use the right stuff initially, then gradually discard stuff as it gets in the way, is too hot on a hot day, can't be bothered just for one branch, etc.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2023, 09:32:10 am by PlainName »
 

Offline MK14

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #186 on: June 30, 2023, 04:15:00 pm »
I've read an interesting article, as to the most dangerous part of a car.  Apparently, there is a nut, holding the steering wheel in place, that must be kept tight enough.  Because, almost all car accidents, are caused by the nut behind the wheel.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #187 on: June 30, 2023, 04:17:02 pm »
It does not help if the nut behind the wheel is tight.
 
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Offline MK14

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #188 on: June 30, 2023, 04:20:14 pm »
It does not help if the nut behind the wheel is tight.

It does help, if they know how to drive safely, and take care.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #189 on: June 30, 2023, 05:46:02 pm »
Sure they do.  Don't you have a risk factor setting on your cruise control?


Quote
but they are definitely less cautious the safer they perceive the vehicle to be. People will text, play with the radio, drive too fast for conditions, etc, and this is getting worse and worse.

So, we do need to put a spike on the steering wheel?  To prevent fast lane changes and cornering, the wheel itself should have razor blades.  We can find all manner of things to make cars seem more dangerous.  I bet that will make the much safer.

I'm not going to stop saying stupid things, until you do.  :P


No, obviously the risk factor calculation is done in my head. For example when the weather is nice and the roads are dry and relatively clear I'll set the cruise control to a faster speed because my risk of being in an accident is lower. If it's rainy, or the roads are unfamiliar, or there is a lot of traffic then the risk is higher so I will drive more slowly. My behavior is absolutely based on risk, why are you obsessing over some kind of fictional risk indicator device?

As for the other stuff you are totally over into strawman territory there, spikes are razor blades? Are you on drugs? Absolutely nobody is seriously suggesting adding intentionally dangerous features.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #190 on: June 30, 2023, 05:55:32 pm »
You seem to be the type of person who thinks everyone else is a moron.  All problems are caused by others being morons.  Your entire rational is that other people drive like morons, so instead of making the roads safer by any means we can, we should simply whine about how other people are causing all the problems on the roads. 

I hope that someday, you might actually look at a fact.  But then you would need to recognize it, which you might be no longer able to do.

Quite a few people are morons, at least they act like one, this is clearly illustrated by their behavior. I have never caused an accident, ever. I have been rear ended 6 or 7 times in my life, in every single case I was stopped when it happened. In every single case it was because the person that hit me was not paying attention and not watching where they're going, in other words they were driving like a moron, this is a fact based on personal experience. Every time I bus to work I see multiple people in cars looking down at a phone that is in their lap where they think nobody can see them doing it, distracted driving now kills as many people as drunk driving, it's a very serious problem, again a fact that is backed up by accident data. So yes, in my experience other people are causing all the problems on roads, I've never caused an accident, they have, that's not an opinion, it's an objectively true fact and all of the gadgets and features that are intended to reduce the number of accidents have not reduced the number of accidents. This is not my emotional opinion, it is a fact based on a large range of data and it correlates with my own observation.

You say you hope some day I might look at a fact but it seems you are projecting, it is you that is ignoring facts and arguing on an emotional level.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #191 on: June 30, 2023, 06:25:56 pm »
Not everyone else in life is a moron, but I assume the other drivers about me are morons and pay attention to their potentially dangerous or stupid moves.
When I was driving to work (before retirement), I was often rear-ended in stop-and-go-traffic, but my heavy Fords had real metal bumpers and left Japanese plastic on the roadway.
 
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Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #192 on: June 30, 2023, 07:16:02 pm »
You seem to be the type of person who thinks everyone else is a moron.  All problems are caused by others being morons.  Your entire rational is that other people drive like morons, so instead of making the roads safer by any means we can, we should simply whine about how other people are causing all the problems on the roads. 

I hope that someday, you might actually look at a fact.  But then you would need to recognize it, which you might be no longer able to do.

Quite a few people are morons, at least they act like one, this is clearly illustrated by their behavior. I have never caused an accident, ever. I have been rear ended 6 or 7 times in my life, in every single case I was stopped when it happened. In every single case it was because the person that hit me was not paying attention and not watching where they're going, in other words they were driving like a moron, this is a fact based on personal experience. Every time I bus to work I see multiple people in cars looking down at a phone that is in their lap where they think nobody can see them doing it, distracted driving now kills as many people as drunk driving, it's a very serious problem, again a fact that is backed up by accident data. So yes, in my experience other people are causing all the problems on roads, I've never caused an accident, they have, that's not an opinion, it's an objectively true fact and all of the gadgets and features that are intended to reduce the number of accidents have not reduced the number of accidents. This is not my emotional opinion, it is a fact based on a large range of data and it correlates with my own observation.

You say you hope some day I might look at a fact but it seems you are projecting, it is you that is ignoring facts and arguing on an emotional level.

Your post shows exactly what I mean.  Your opinion is based solely on what has happened to you, as if what happens to you is what happens to everyone.  You wear blinders to what is actually happening in the world, cut off from it by your prejudices.   

You cite information that something is a problem, while maintaining that other solutions to that problem need to be cut back because of your silly notions.

It's clear there is no point to continuing this discussion.  So, I'm done.  Bye.
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Offline AndyBeez

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #193 on: June 30, 2023, 08:08:54 pm »
Quite a few people are morons, at least they act like one, this is clearly illustrated by their behavior.
[etc]
Best advice from an ex-British Army driving instructor was, assume everyone else is dumb. Hence his saying, defensive driving means, you have to do everyone else's thinking for them, even if they went to college.

You can become almost psychic, knowing that in three... two... one... those men in lycra are going to undercut the articulated lorry which is already positioned and indicating to turn. Looking through a visor or a windshield is an idiot watch. Am I the only one reading the road? With the advent of driverless cars, can AI anticipate the random actions of other drivers? Seems that AI driven vehicles are very fast at reacting to hazards, but not so good at anticipating them.
 
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Offline Bryn

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #194 on: June 30, 2023, 08:37:52 pm »
When I first saw the thread title, I thought it was a joke... can't believe that actually happened.

Also, smart homes are an unnecessary luxury which only makes things worse instead of better for the consumer, a bit like anything "smart" these days...
 

Offline Infraviolet

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #195 on: June 30, 2023, 09:01:17 pm »
Smart, perhaps best considered as an acronym for "Surveillance, Monitoring And Repression Technologies", although I think that backronym could be reworded to emphasise the vendor-lock-in nature of "smart" devices as well.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #196 on: June 30, 2023, 09:14:32 pm »
With the advent of driverless cars, can AI anticipate the random actions of other drivers? Seems that AI driven vehicles are very fast at reacting to hazards, but not so good at anticipating them.

Very good point.

I reckon they could learn to predict, but it'd take a lot of smashes to get as good as us :)
 

Offline Zero999Topic starter

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #197 on: June 30, 2023, 09:15:47 pm »
Anyone claiming cars gaining more safety features hasn't resulted in a reduction in fatalities is mistaken. In the US, the number of road deaths per mile has been in decline, since the widespread adoption of the automobile.
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/
 
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Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #198 on: June 30, 2023, 09:22:29 pm »
With the advent of driverless cars, can AI anticipate the random actions of other drivers? Seems that AI driven vehicles are very fast at reacting to hazards, but not so good at anticipating them.

Very good point.

I reckon they could learn to predict, but it'd take a lot of smashes to get as good as us :)

They are already better than human drivers.  Well, technically, "they" are autopilots combined with human monitors, but according to the argument, the more the car does, the less the human will do.  So... fatality rates are already lower with the autopilot technology. 

Job done!
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Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #199 on: June 30, 2023, 09:23:20 pm »
Anyone claiming cars gaining more safety features hasn't resulted in a reduction in fatalities is mistaken. In the US, the number of road deaths per mile has been in decline, since the widespread adoption of the automobile.
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/motor-vehicle/historical-fatality-trends/deaths-and-rates/

HEY!  Don't confuse them with the facts!!!
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