Author Topic: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!  (Read 26601 times)

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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #250 on: July 03, 2023, 07:21:51 pm »
Beyond the law, I think it's a very cultural thing.

In my own (limited) experience with scandinavian countries (I've been to Norway, Sweden and Finland), norwegian people appeared to be the more well-behaved when it comes to driving.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #251 on: July 03, 2023, 08:12:55 pm »
Quote
Here in Helsinki, at pedestrian crossings where there are no traffic lights, about half of the drivers assume pedestrians will stop and wait, even though the law says the opposite should happen.

Here in the UK the rule is that drivers should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross, and must give way to pedestrians on a crossing. There are strict meanings for 'should' and 'must', so if one is 'making progress' then a waiting pedestrian is fair game whereas one with a foot on the crossing wins. Most drivers seem to either not know the detail of the rules or just generally considerate.

edit: source
Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see ?Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.

The law in the UK is totally misrepresented in most peoples head. It's not actually law but it is. Most pedestrians will retort that they have right of way, they do not! What they fail to realize is that the highway code is like any other standard written like a program. If this then that. So the whole I have right of way to be in your way bullshit comes from the fact that a pedestrian has precedence over a car in the terms that if a car does come across a pedestrian that should not be there, then he does not have the right to mow the pedestrian down. Many mistake this for I have the right to do whatever i please.

There have been recent changes that seem to confuse things and sound like they pander to the convenient misconceptions of idiots rather than tell the idiots to learn to read and to do just that to the high way code. If you are to cross on a straight peice of road, the last time I looked at the highway code it made clear that a pedestrian has the responsibility of ensuring that they only cross if they can get to the other side without obstructing cars. It also states that pedestrians may not, probably must not actually "be in the road for no other reason than crossing". So basically when that twat just walks out into the road sticking his fingers up at you, it is he that is in the wrong but sadly you are not in the right so hit him, and no explaining will convince the dense jerk otherwise.
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #252 on: July 03, 2023, 08:17:36 pm »
@tggzzz:
"That's true in all trains! Only on Norwegian trains have I seen the carafes of water."

Answer:  passenger trains in the US have potable water plumbing.
https://www.epa.gov/dc/epa-amtrak-agreement-helps-ensure-drinking-water-safety-trains
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #253 on: July 03, 2023, 08:20:50 pm »
Here in Finland, the law states that if the pedestrian is on the pedestrian crossing or is ready to cross at one, the motorist has to let them cross unimpeded.

Merging back to the original topic, how does anyone tell that better/tolerant culture yields better results (compare road culture wrt traffic accidents and deaths), to large companies?

It is interesting to me how the negative developments I saw in academia have now reached even large multinational companies, which risk more than ever by letting ideologically programmed people at the Cxx level.

I mean, in a politically charged environment with a near even split, it is obvious that being apolitical and walking the centerline makes the most business sense, because any deviation will only reduce your customer base.  Switching from one to the other (Like Bud Light) makes no business sense at all; and remotely disabling home appliances because of an accusation, when the company is trying to push home automation and "smart" home appliances, seems absolutely counter to business interests.

In many Western countries, there are laws that require publicly traded companies' officers to put owners' financial interest in front of personal interests, with the ability of the owners to sue the officers for damages etc. if they fail to do so.  Apparently, because the owners are now large companies themselves with their Cxx-level officers having the same ideologically loaded university education and background, this does not seem to be a concern anymore.

Note: My point stands regardless of whether one agrees the ideas pushed are good or not.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #254 on: July 03, 2023, 08:31:35 pm »
Here in Finland, the law states that if the pedestrian is on the pedestrian crossing or is ready to cross at one, the motorist has to let them cross unimpeded.


At designated crossings yes. For example pedestrian or pelican crossings. However the pedestrian must ensure the vehicle stops, they can't just launch onto it. I had a guy walking down the street pushing a buggy just swivel the buggy sideways with no warning an without looking behind him which is where the traffic (me) was coming from onto a zebra crossing, you can't do this. I watched when the "lollipop lady" was out helping kids across the road, the children are supposed to wait until she walks out into the road, the cars know this. I assume that the general idea is that the children cross in batches of sensible sizes regulated by the lollipop lady so that cars are not at a standstill and she ensures children cross the road properly. I saw her go running after a stupid kid that decided he should not have to play by the rules forcing a car to stop sharply, that stupid cow went running out after him vindicating his rule breaking. When i was a child crossing that very same crossing we had a different lollipop lady, her name was carol, she even came to the school to talk about how it all worked, you simply did not disobey carol and if she was on duty that kid would have got an earful, she certainly would have not gone dashing out after him like a pathetic groveling slave, all she did was help him create a personality that will one day get him killed or injured and no doubt the driver will get the blame.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #255 on: July 03, 2023, 08:39:03 pm »
Quote from: Nominal Animal
I mean, in a politically charged environment with a near even split, it is obvious that being apolitical and walking the centerline makes the most business sense, because any deviation will only reduce your customer base.

I'm not sure that's so. You may reduce your potential customer base, but you might harden the smaller set of customer's loyalty. Look at, for instance, Trump - minority followers but guaranteed to follow no matter what. From a company PoV in that situation, you wouldn't have to worry about churn, for instance.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #256 on: July 03, 2023, 09:02:38 pm »
The pandemic, along with the poor response to it by many governments, has reduced the quality of the health system in many countries, so perhaps more of those who have been involved in road collisions are dying now, when they would have survived before?

That could be. Does this pan out with other emergency medical care statistics?
 

Offline Zero999Topic starter

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #257 on: July 03, 2023, 09:08:52 pm »
Quote
Here in Helsinki, at pedestrian crossings where there are no traffic lights, about half of the drivers assume pedestrians will stop and wait, even though the law says the opposite should happen.

Here in the UK the rule is that drivers should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross, and must give way to pedestrians on a crossing. There are strict meanings for 'should' and 'must', so if one is 'making progress' then a waiting pedestrian is fair game whereas one with a foot on the crossing wins. Most drivers seem to either not know the detail of the rules or just generally considerate.

edit: source
Zebra crossings. Give traffic plenty of time to see you and to stop before you start to cross. Vehicles will need more time when the road is slippery. Wait until traffic has stopped from both directions or the road is clear before crossing. Remember that traffic does not have to stop until someone has moved onto the crossing. Drivers and riders should give way to pedestrians waiting to cross and MUST give way to pedestrians on a zebra crossing (see ?Rule H2). Keep looking both ways, and listening, in case a driver or rider has not seen you and attempts to overtake a vehicle that has stopped.

The law in the UK is totally misrepresented in most peoples head. It's not actually law but it is. Most pedestrians will retort that they have right of way, they do not! What they fail to realize is that the highway code is like any other standard written like a program. If this then that. So the whole I have right of way to be in your way bullshit comes from the fact that a pedestrian has precedence over a car in the terms that if a car does come across a pedestrian that should not be there, then he does not have the right to mow the pedestrian down. Many mistake this for I have the right to do whatever i please.

There have been recent changes that seem to confuse things and sound like they pander to the convenient misconceptions of idiots rather than tell the idiots to learn to read and to do just that to the high way code. If you are to cross on a straight peice of road, the last time I looked at the highway code it made clear that a pedestrian has the responsibility of ensuring that they only cross if they can get to the other side without obstructing cars. It also states that pedestrians may not, probably must not actually "be in the road for no other reason than crossing". So basically when that twat just walks out into the road sticking his fingers up at you, it is he that is in the wrong but sadly you are not in the right so hit him, and no explaining will convince the dense jerk otherwise.
Actually no one has right of way, just priority.

The recent changes to the highway code are outlined here:
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/new-highway-code-rules-what-you-need-to-know/
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #258 on: July 03, 2023, 09:12:00 pm »
Quote from: Nominal Animal
I mean, in a politically charged environment with a near even split, it is obvious that being apolitical and walking the centerline makes the most business sense, because any deviation will only reduce your customer base.

I'm not sure that's so. You may reduce your potential customer base, but you might harden the smaller set of customer's loyalty. Look at, for instance, Trump - minority followers but guaranteed to follow no matter what. From a company PoV in that situation, you wouldn't have to worry about churn, for instance.

Recently, Anheuser-Busch (now part of AB InBev) shot itself in the foot by ignoring "bar rules":  don't discuss politics or religion.
After a transgender influencer promoted Bud Light beer on Instagram, conservatives called for a boycott.
Thereafter, when they thought the beer company was not defending the beer properly, the LGBTQ+ community decided to boycott it in turn, to own the conservatives.
The net result is a huge decrease in sales of what was the most popular single beer in the US, being replaced by another light beer from the Mexican company Modelo, also owned by AB InBev (not mentioned in the article cited below).

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/14/bud-light-loses-top-us-beer-spot-after-promotion-with-transgender-influencer
 

Offline Zero999Topic starter

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #259 on: July 03, 2023, 09:19:30 pm »
The pandemic, along with the poor response to it by many governments, has reduced the quality of the health system in many countries, so perhaps more of those who have been involved in road collisions are dying now, when they would have survived before?

That could be. Does this pan out with other emergency medical care statistics?
It does appear to be the case in the UK, although the NHS has being deteriorating for years. I don't know about the US.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7281/
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #260 on: July 03, 2023, 11:02:26 pm »
Here in Finland, the law states that if the pedestrian is on the pedestrian crossing or is ready to cross at one, the motorist has to let them cross unimpeded.
At designated crossings yes.
My point was that about half the drivers here in Helsinki assume that if the pedestrian sees a car say 30m away, the pedestrian will wait because it would be inconvenient for the motorist to stop and give way, even if the speed limit was just 30 km/h.  I can tell from the aggressive revving and speeding (over the speed limit) afterwards.

Quote from: Nominal Animal
I mean, in a politically charged environment with a near even split, it is obvious that being apolitical and walking the centerline makes the most business sense, because any deviation will only reduce your customer base.
I'm not sure that's so. You may reduce your potential customer base, but you might harden the smaller set of customer's loyalty.
Or you might alienate your existing customer base and lose billions in market valuation and a quarter of your sales.  You do not do that because you think it would make the brand better, you should only do that when you believe it is in the interests of the shareholders.

Of course there are niches where a political profile is a marketing tactic.  They are a risky business, because if the political wind changes, your entire brand may lose its value.  It is very expensive to rebrand.

Exactly why companies like Gillette and Anhauser Busch let their executives play with their personal ideologies using shareholder money, even when it costs the shareholders billions, is the strange thing here.  Laws in many (most? western) countries say the shareholders can sue such executives, and successfully have in the past.  Why is this political-ideological games wasting shareholder money became suddenly acceptable? Is BlackRock using institutional money to fund its executives/founders ideological and political goals?
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #261 on: July 03, 2023, 11:49:53 pm »
@tggzzz:
"That's true in all trains! Only on Norwegian trains have I seen the carafes of water."

Answer:  passenger trains in the US have potable water plumbing.
https://www.epa.gov/dc/epa-amtrak-agreement-helps-ensure-drinking-water-safety-trains

Trains in the US? I thought the car companies bought the tracks in the 1930s. :)
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Offline bdunham7

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #262 on: July 04, 2023, 01:27:19 am »
I can't think of anything that happened in 1st or 2nd quarter of 2020 to cause such a step function. 

Police officers stopped or greatly reduced traffic stops during this time, both because of Covid-19 and for other reasons related to the current situation in France. 
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Offline TimFox

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #263 on: July 04, 2023, 02:49:28 am »
@tggzzz:
"That's true in all trains! Only on Norwegian trains have I seen the carafes of water."

Answer:  passenger trains in the US have potable water plumbing.
https://www.epa.gov/dc/epa-amtrak-agreement-helps-ensure-drinking-water-safety-trains

Trains in the US? I thought the car companies bought the tracks in the 1930s. :)

That story relates to the downfall of light rail (Pacific Electric) in California.
The railroads in the US are owned by the freight companies, and most of the track is owned by four American corporations and two Canadian corporations.
 

Offline Stray Electron

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #264 on: July 04, 2023, 03:25:57 am »
Quote
I can't think of anything that happened in 1st or 2nd quarter of 2020 to cause such a step function

Covid lockdown? Over here that resulted in clear roads, so drivers were doing stupid speeds expecting not to meet something in the way. I can easily imagine a higher death rate despite fewer miles travelled.

Sure, if the step had gone away after things opened up again.  But this step has remained.  It was both abrupt, and significant, around 30%!

   I don't know where you're located but I'm 2 miles from a major US university with over 60,000 students (plus staff) and one of the earlier posters is right, when Covid happened, and most people quit driving, the roads around here became race tracks for the 20 somethings and there were some horrific high speed accidents. Traffic has picked up here since then but the police don't seemed to have returned to patrolling the roads ANYWHERE that I've been in the last couple of years and after 2+ years of OWNING the roads, the speeders and the reckless drivers are more bold than ever.  Now I'm seeing a lot of cars and motorcycles that don't even have tags, and clearly are not street legal, driving and racing openly on the streets.  As much as I hate to say it, we need the police back on the road and handing out a lot of tickets.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #265 on: July 04, 2023, 03:36:32 am »
"Street racing" has been on the rise over here as well.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #266 on: July 04, 2023, 10:18:31 am »
Quote from: Nominal Animal
I mean, in a politically charged environment with a near even split, it is obvious that being apolitical and walking the centerline makes the most business sense, because any deviation will only reduce your customer base.

I'm not sure that's so. You may reduce your potential customer base, but you might harden the smaller set of customer's loyalty. Look at, for instance, Trump - minority followers but guaranteed to follow no matter what. From a company PoV in that situation, you wouldn't have to worry about churn, for instance.

Recently, Anheuser-Busch (now part of AB InBev) shot itself in the foot by ignoring "bar rules":  don't discuss politics or religion.
After a transgender influencer promoted Bud Light beer on Instagram, conservatives called for a boycott.
Thereafter, when they thought the beer company was not defending the beer properly, the LGBTQ+ community decided to boycott it in turn, to own the conservatives.

Yeah, I think if you're going to do that kind of thing you gotta go in full-on. Any sense that you might be faking or wobbling and it's curtains.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #267 on: July 04, 2023, 10:33:30 am »
Quote from: Nominal Animal
I mean, in a politically charged environment with a near even split, it is obvious that being apolitical and walking the centerline makes the most business sense, because any deviation will only reduce your customer base.

I'm not sure that's so. You may reduce your potential customer base, but you might harden the smaller set of customer's loyalty. Look at, for instance, Trump - minority followers but guaranteed to follow no matter what. From a company PoV in that situation, you wouldn't have to worry about churn, for instance.

Recently, Anheuser-Busch (now part of AB InBev) shot itself in the foot by ignoring "bar rules":  don't discuss politics or religion.
After a transgender influencer promoted Bud Light beer on Instagram, conservatives called for a boycott.
Thereafter, when they thought the beer company was not defending the beer properly, the LGBTQ+ community decided to boycott it in turn, to own the conservatives.

Yeah, I think if you're going to do that kind of thing you gotta go in full-on. Any sense that you might be faking or wobbling and it's curtains.
Exactly, shunned by both sides of the divide.  Very risky for the shareholders, if you already have a good market share on both sides of the divide, like Bud Light had.

Reflecting this, Amazon's actions seem counterproductive to me.  Their actions alienate customers who hadn't thought about the corporate control over their home automation before, and those who are scared of being called racist.  They only cater to the tiny vocal minority, who have taken it to be their purpose in life to be offended on behalf of others.

Or perhaps I am underestimating the shortsightedness of Amazon's customers?
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #268 on: July 04, 2023, 11:51:05 am »
Reflecting this, Amazon's actions seem counterproductive to me.  Their actions alienate customers who hadn't thought about the corporate control over their home automation before, and those who are scared of being called racist.  They only cater to the tiny vocal minority, who have taken it to be their purpose in life to be offended on behalf of others.

Or perhaps I am underestimating the shortsightedness of Amazon's customers?

I'm reminded of the old aphorism: "nobody went broke underestimating the taste of the American public". s/taste/stupidity/ or s/taste/shortsightness/ or s/taste/ignorance/ etc.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline Haenk

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #269 on: July 04, 2023, 12:03:41 pm »
Or perhaps I am underestimating the shortsightedness of Amazon's customers?

That's not unique to Amazon's customers, but the sheer number is frightening. Plus the "completely out of control" management of support issues (we are also a seller and a vendor on Amazon - so we have a pretty broad insight into their actings) has all the red warning lights on to not leave them with absolute control over your life and belongings.
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #270 on: July 04, 2023, 01:27:31 pm »
I was getting a haircut by a local woman from China. She began a racist rant about about black people in China, and she said all black people there and here cause trouble. I am white Anglo-Saxon, and I quietly commented as she was ranting, "I have son-in-law who is black". She very quickly was lost for words and shut her mouth. And I didn't end up with an inverted Mohawk haircut.

Also recently an acquaintance at a dinner party started a rant about people not speaking English in Australia. I quickly headed it off at the pass by letting her know English is NOT the official language of Australia. In fact, Australia is one of the few countries that does not have an official language. Very few Aussies even know that basic fact. That shut her up.

Seriously, there no room for racism anywhere, because we are of one race... the human race. To remain silent when there is a racist attack by a business or individual, means we are not much better than the racists.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #271 on: July 04, 2023, 02:07:28 pm »
Seriously, there no room for racism anywhere, because we are of one race... the human race. To remain silent when there is a racist attack by a business or individual, means we are not much better than the racists.
So, do you intend to get her business license revoked, then?  Perhaps even deported?

I believe actual racists are best dealt with words myself, especially because nobody seems to agree to what "racism" actually is.
 
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Offline Zero999Topic starter

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #272 on: July 04, 2023, 04:41:16 pm »
Also recently an acquaintance at a dinner party started a rant about people not speaking English in Australia. I quickly headed it off at the pass by letting her know English is NOT the official language of Australia. In fact, Australia is one of the few countries that does not have an official language. Very few Aussies even know that basic fact. That shut her up.
I don't see anything racist about that. It's perfectly reasonable for anyone who settling in a new country to learn the most commonly spoken language there, irrespective or it being the official one, or not. If I were planning to move to a new country, I'd do my very best to learn the local language and respect the local customs and culture. I wouldn't want to be a disrespectful foreigner.
 

Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #273 on: July 04, 2023, 08:37:58 pm »
I was getting a haircut by a local woman from China. She began a racist rant about about black people in China, and she said all black people there and here cause trouble. I am white Anglo-Saxon, and I quietly commented as she was ranting, "I have son-in-law who is black". She very quickly was lost for words and shut her mouth. And I didn't end up with an inverted Mohawk haircut.

Also recently an acquaintance at a dinner party started a rant about people not speaking English in Australia. I quickly headed it off at the pass by letting her know English is NOT the official language of Australia. In fact, Australia is one of the few countries that does not have an official language. Very few Aussies even know that basic fact. That shut her up.

Seriously, there no room for racism anywhere, because we are of one race... the human race. To remain silent when there is a racist attack by a business or individual, means we are not much better than the racists.

That's like in the US, where people talk about the "immigrant" problem and how they should all go "home".   I ask where their family is from, which usually gets the name of some city in the US.  I push a bit, until they realize what I'm really asking.  That usually shuts them up... for a while.  After all, the Europeans stole the US from the natives, fair and square! 
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Offline gnuarm

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Re: Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
« Reply #274 on: July 04, 2023, 08:43:50 pm »
Also recently an acquaintance at a dinner party started a rant about people not speaking English in Australia. I quickly headed it off at the pass by letting her know English is NOT the official language of Australia. In fact, Australia is one of the few countries that does not have an official language. Very few Aussies even know that basic fact. That shut her up.
I don't see anything racist about that. It's perfectly reasonable for anyone who settling in a new country to learn the most commonly spoken language there, irrespective or it being the official one, or not. If I were planning to move to a new country, I'd do my very best to learn the local language and respect the local customs and culture. I wouldn't want to be a disrespectful foreigner.

I don't know about other countries, but historically in the US, immigrants were pushed into their own communities and encouraged to remain isolated.  A 96 year old friend talks about how around New York each group had their own neighborhood.  They were not hostile to one another, but kept at arms length.  Each community had something to offer and everyone accepted the others were there to stay.  But they remained separate.  Many who entered the US had no intention of "assimilating" and never learned the language.  They held onto their traditions and language, allowing the next generation to assimilate if they chose. 

I can't see anything wrong with that.
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