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Amazon accuses customer of racism & shuts down their smart home!
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Nominal Animal:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 04, 2023, 08:37:58 pm ---That's like in the US, where people talk about the "immigrant" problem and how they should all go "home".   I ask where their family is from, which usually gets the name of some city in the US.  I push a bit, until they realize what I'm really asking.  That usually shuts them up... for a while.
--- End quote ---
:-+

Related discussion here in Finland is ... divisive.  We have severe problems with how immigration rules are implemented, but discussing how to deal with it is impossible: the first term thrown is always "racist", the second "far right".  I mean, ideas like making deportation mandatory for non-citizens who have received jail sentences for crimes they committed in Finland, is completely out; something out of Third Reich or worse.

I do not claim to know any answers to such problems; but my problem is such discussion is utterly impossible here (and has been for years now), because the idea of there being anything to discuss about immigration, is itself labeled "racist" and "far right".  Usually, when problems are just hidden or taboo, they tend to fester, instead of going away.
TimFox:
"First generation" immigrants, often with limited English, did keep together.
"Second generation" and thereafter learned the language and tended to assimilate.
My grandmother, a daughter of immigrants, remembered being punished in elementary school if caught speaking Norwegian on the rural schoolyard.
My grandparents and mother would speak Norwegian to each other when the children were not supposed to hear.
In Chicago, as time progressed, the ethnic Catholic churches evolved with the settlement pattern:  the Deutsche Katholische St. Paulus Kirche on the near south side is now called la Iglesia Catolica de San Pablo.
(That neighborhood is still called Pilsen, after the original Bohemian immigrants, but is now a center of the Mexican community in Chicago.)
Zero999:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 04, 2023, 08:43:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 04, 2023, 04:41:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: VK3DRB on July 04, 2023, 01:27:31 pm ---Also recently an acquaintance at a dinner party started a rant about people not speaking English in Australia. I quickly headed it off at the pass by letting her know English is NOT the official language of Australia. In fact, Australia is one of the few countries that does not have an official language. Very few Aussies even know that basic fact. That shut her up.

--- End quote ---
I don't see anything racist about that. It's perfectly reasonable for anyone who settling in a new country to learn the most commonly spoken language there, irrespective or it being the official one, or not. If I were planning to move to a new country, I'd do my very best to learn the local language and respect the local customs and culture. I wouldn't want to be a disrespectful foreigner.

--- End quote ---

I don't know about other countries, but historically in the US, immigrants were pushed into their own communities and encouraged to remain isolated.  A 96 year old friend talks about how around New York each group had their own neighborhood.  They were not hostile to one another, but kept at arms length.  Each community had something to offer and everyone accepted the others were there to stay.  But they remained separate.  Many who entered the US had no intention of "assimilating" and never learned the language.  They held onto their traditions and language, allowing the next generation to assimilate if they chose. 

I can't see anything wrong with that.

--- End quote ---
That's quite common with humans in general. People want to live next to others with a common language and culture. In the UK there are enclaves of immigrant populations who don't mix much with the natives. The Brits do the same thing in other countries, for example there's an area on the Costa Del Sol where most people are British, who don't speak much Spanish


--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 04, 2023, 08:37:58 pm ---That's like in the US, where people talk about the "immigrant" problem and how they should all go "home".   I ask where their family is from, which usually gets the name of some city in the US.  I push a bit, until they realize what I'm really asking.  That usually shuts them up... for a while.  After all, the Europeans stole the US from the natives, fair and square! 

--- End quote ---
Again, that's human nature. People who look different, have a different culture and customs, often get treated with suspicion. Conquest been part of humanity across the world: the Native Americans were stealing land from one another, long before the Europeans went there and were better at it.
gnuarm:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 04, 2023, 09:25:04 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 04, 2023, 08:43:50 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on July 04, 2023, 04:41:16 pm ---
--- Quote from: VK3DRB on July 04, 2023, 01:27:31 pm ---Also recently an acquaintance at a dinner party started a rant about people not speaking English in Australia. I quickly headed it off at the pass by letting her know English is NOT the official language of Australia. In fact, Australia is one of the few countries that does not have an official language. Very few Aussies even know that basic fact. That shut her up.

--- End quote ---
I don't see anything racist about that. It's perfectly reasonable for anyone who settling in a new country to learn the most commonly spoken language there, irrespective or it being the official one, or not. If I were planning to move to a new country, I'd do my very best to learn the local language and respect the local customs and culture. I wouldn't want to be a disrespectful foreigner.

--- End quote ---

I don't know about other countries, but historically in the US, immigrants were pushed into their own communities and encouraged to remain isolated.  A 96 year old friend talks about how around New York each group had their own neighborhood.  They were not hostile to one another, but kept at arms length.  Each community had something to offer and everyone accepted the others were there to stay.  But they remained separate.  Many who entered the US had no intention of "assimilating" and never learned the language.  They held onto their traditions and language, allowing the next generation to assimilate if they chose. 

I can't see anything wrong with that.

--- End quote ---
That's quite common with humans in general. People want to live next to others with a common language and culture. In the UK there are enclaves of immigrant populations who don't mix much with the natives. The Brits do the same thing in other countries, for example there's an area on the Costa Del Sol where most people are British, who don't speak much Spanish


--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 04, 2023, 08:37:58 pm ---That's like in the US, where people talk about the "immigrant" problem and how they should all go "home".   I ask where their family is from, which usually gets the name of some city in the US.  I push a bit, until they realize what I'm really asking.  That usually shuts them up... for a while.  After all, the Europeans stole the US from the natives, fair and square! 

--- End quote ---
Again, that's human nature. People who look different, have a different culture and customs, often get treated with suspicion. Conquest been part of humanity across the world: the Native Americans were stealing land from one another, long before the Europeans went there and were better at it.

--- End quote ---

Which is exactly the point, while few actually understand it.  They simply see that they are the most recent land thieves. 
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