Author Topic: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format (solved!)  (Read 5225 times)

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Offline Monkeh

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2020, 06:34:31 pm »
The issue with Kindle is you don't really own anything.  It's all cloud based. 

Files (ebook and pdf) are on the cloud but there is a copy of these files on the flash memory of my Kindle PaperWhite, and if I connect my Kindle to a computer via USB, I can copy them like if was a common pendrive.

They are, of course, encrypted.. Which I'm sure has been broken a few times now.

Pdf are not encrypted, so as mostly of my paid epub files. I bought from Amazon a lot of ebook tales written by Philip K. Dick, I cannot read them on my computer because I haven't installed an application, but by opening files via usb the PaperWhite works as if it was a pen stick and with a text editor I see readable strings of text.

If they were encrypted, I should not read anything that looks like human sentences.

Unless policies have changed, Kindle titles delivered by Amazon are encrypted unless the publisher/author opts out of it. I can't see the average publisher ever even considering the idea of not having DRM..
 

Offline 0dbTopic starter

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2020, 07:48:38 pm »
I was not sure if my ebooks were DRM protected or DRM free, and I searched the word such as "Adobe", "Adept" or "DRM" or "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" in the product description on the details page.

And found that all my ebooks do report "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited", thus they are DRM free, and this means a lot of purchases are DRM free by default, in spite of what most people think.

Probably buying a DRM-protected ebook has more chance to happen with Kobo, Nook, Google play ebooks.

edit: p.s.
found this tool as workaround.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 07:55:43 pm by 0db »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2020, 07:52:26 pm »
Mine, not all my ebooks, report "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited", thus they are obviously DRM free, and this means a lot of purchases are DRM-free by default, in spite of what most people think.

That is not the same thing as being DRM-free. Being able to pick up the title on multiple devices is a primary selling point of their service - but that doesn't mean you can drop it on someone else's device for them to read.
 

Offline 0dbTopic starter

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2020, 07:57:42 pm »
That is not the same thing as being DRM-free. Being able to pick up the title on multiple devices is a primary selling point of their service - but that doesn't mean you can drop it on someone else's device for them to read.

It means it's not DRM protected. Otherwise how could you open it form different and unregistered devices?
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2020, 08:14:42 pm »
That is not the same thing as being DRM-free. Being able to pick up the title on multiple devices is a primary selling point of their service - but that doesn't mean you can drop it on someone else's device for them to read.

It means it's not DRM protected. Otherwise how could you open it form different and unregistered devices?

You uh, don't, when you buy a typical ebook from Amazon. Again, DRM. I just grabbed a random one - very much encrypted, have to download for the specific target device.

I don't know about your particular example (as I've never seen that string on Amazon and you don't... give.. links..), but again, titles sold on the Kindle store typically employ DRM, and being allowed to use multiple devices to view a title does not imply no DRM is in use.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2020, 09:52:40 pm »
Mine, not all my ebooks, report "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited", thus they are obviously DRM free, and this means a lot of purchases are DRM-free by default, in spite of what most people think.

That is not the same thing as being DRM-free. Being able to pick up the title on multiple devices is a primary selling point of their service - but that doesn't mean you can drop it on someone else's device for them to read.

Actually you can do this. I share my kindle library with my eldest. No one else has a kindle in the house so I don’t know how far you can stretch that.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2020, 09:57:52 pm »
Mine, not all my ebooks, report "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited", thus they are obviously DRM free, and this means a lot of purchases are DRM-free by default, in spite of what most people think.

That is not the same thing as being DRM-free. Being able to pick up the title on multiple devices is a primary selling point of their service - but that doesn't mean you can drop it on someone else's device for them to read.

Actually you can do this. I share my kindle library with my eldest. No one else has a kindle in the house so I don’t know how far you can stretch that.

There is a sharing function which I'm sure you're referring to, but just copying the file straight over shouldn't work.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2020, 10:01:15 pm »
Well it turns out its a piece of piss anyway.

Calibre plug-in https://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/2012/09/10/drm-removal-tools-for-ebooks/

Locks only keep honest people honest.
 

Offline Daixiwen

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2020, 07:08:36 am »
Calibre is also great to keep a copy of all your ebooks, and convert from one format to the other.
I keep a copy of all my ebooks with the DRM removed just in case Amazon would decide one day that I wouldn't be allowed to read them any more.
 

Offline 0dbTopic starter

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2020, 07:38:34 am »
Locks only keep honest people honest.

DRM looks more a profit-making strategy for large corporations like Amazon who can use it to restrict competition. It’s well known by this point that DRM does not prevent digital piracy, the argument usually made for it. What it does is prevent book buyers from moving their files across reading platforms.

However, I am really satisfied with Amazon because my ebooks are "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" at least inside the Amazon ecosystem.

Probably they have some other restrictions, but for instance I have never tried to print files or to modify the cover image; I don't care these things, I am more interested in sharing underlined text, notes, and comments on my devices, I can do it so I am really happy with my ebooks.

I am not against the digital rights management as at least DRM acts as a deterrent to piracy, the problem I have is against country/region restriction because I cannot buy an ebook without telling Amazon a lie.

Why should I have to tell Amazon that I live in the US to buy a book which otherwise I couldn't buy in my region? It's also annoying because you have to edit your account and this may affect your physical orders.

You can find an .epub online, which is the common ebook -without region restriction- format, but the Kindle can't read it "natively". That's okay; you can convert .epub files to Mobi files for the Kindle to read, but there is a third solution!

You may purchase MOBI files directly from publishers and "sideload them onto your Kindle" via Amazon registered email.  For instance, Smashwords does not encrypt its ebooks neither apply any region restriction :D
 

Online tom66

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2020, 07:59:40 am »
Well, again, it's a low resolution, slow refresh device. It's designed for a simple linear, front to back reading of plain text. Advanced formatting, fixed layouts, images, constantly returning and referencing pages are things you can't do well on these devices.

Disagree. Most Kindles feature ~600-800MHz ARM processors running Linux, and easily have the bandwidth to do basic e-book functions like you describe.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2020, 12:00:56 pm »
Well, again, it's a low resolution, slow refresh device. It's designed for a simple linear, front to back reading of plain text. Advanced formatting, fixed layouts, images, constantly returning and referencing pages are things you can't do well on these devices.

Disagree. Most Kindles feature ~600-800MHz ARM processors running Linux, and easily have the bandwidth to do basic e-book functions like you describe.

It's not the processor, it's the screen and and speed of the UI..

I've used a Kindle for over 8 years, I'm pretty familiar with how practical they are for different content.
 

Offline edy

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2020, 05:04:48 pm »
I've also got one of the original Kindles... it was a 3rd generation Kindle Keyboard with 3G made circa 2010, so it's now 10 years old. Still working a charm.

Best part is the 3G lets you connect to cellular networks anywhere in the world for free. It has an experimental web browser so you can check email, browse websites (although very crudely and slowly). However, it is FREE and works in places without any WiFi hotspots, say in the middle of a tropical beach I can check email for free, look at news sites, view maps. I don't know how they do that but Amazon must pick up the tab.

I mostly load in PDF files, and I can convert PDF using many Linux utilities to a fraction of the size depending on what you are planning to do with them (ebook, print, etc).

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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2020, 07:09:45 pm »
E-ink has advanced alot over the years, the lastest and greatest displays, even black and white, are way faster than  the early ones. They are even developing high-speed (video capable) full-color displays (there's videos on those).

Early e-ink displays took like 1-2 seconds to refresh...so don't complain about it being slow.


EDIT: unless you read like this
« Last Edit: August 13, 2020, 07:15:34 pm by Cyberdragon »
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
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Offline ebastler

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #39 on: August 15, 2020, 08:14:23 am »
That is not the same thing as being DRM-free. Being able to pick up the title on multiple devices is a primary selling point of their service - but that doesn't mean you can drop it on someone else's device for them to read.

It means it's not DRM protected. Otherwise how could you open it form different and unregistered devices?

I'm with Monkeh here. When Amazon states: "simultaneous device usage: unlimited", I believe that means that you can use it on an unlimited number of devices you own, or have registered to your account. 0dB -- when you state that it works on "unregistered devices", have you actually tried that, or tried giving a copy of your e-books to someone else?

(How do you obtain an "unregistered device" in the Kindle system anyway? Aren't they always pre-registered to your account when you buy a device?)
 

Offline 0dbTopic starter

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2020, 10:41:41 am »
How do you obtain an "unregistered device" in the Kindle system anyway? Aren't they always pre-registered to your account when you buy a device?

When you buy a kindle from Amazon it doesn't come "pre-registered". You have to assign it a "name" and you have to register it to your Amazon account as "kindle device". You can have more than one device, but you also have to specify if it's "personal" or "family".

If you purchase a new Kindle and transfer ebooks from computer to it, well ... technically it's "unregistered", thus it will refuse to open DRM protected ebooks, but if you transfer files from the computer and the device it's able to open them ... well, they are for sure DRM-free.

Amazon also allows to share ebooks with your significant other.

Two options are possible:

With "Family" Amazon allows two adults in the same family to share the ebooks they buy with one another. Only two adults, and you must be in the same family.

With "Personal", you can loan out a Kindle ebook that you purchased from the Amazon Kindle store with a friend. It's a restricted option, but if ‘Loan this title’ is on the list, you’re in business as you can click Loan this title, and doing so will take you to a page that lets you send the book to the friend of your choosing, via their email address. Your Kindle ebooks can be lent out for a 14-day period, during you won’t have access to the title yourself—just like if you’d lent a book to a pal from the shelf in your living room.

 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2020, 11:42:10 am »
When you buy a kindle from Amazon it doesn't come "pre-registered". You have to assign it a "name" and you have to register it to your Amazon account as "kindle device".
Hmm, maybe it's handled differently in different parts of the world, or has changed over time. I am pretty sure the Kindles we got were pre-registered, but that was several years ago.

Quote
Amazon also allows to share ebooks with your significant other.
Two options are possible: [...]
If there were no DRM, as you claimed earlier, you would be able to give copies of your ebooks to anyone, without Amazon having to "allow" anything. So there clearly is DRM protection on the Kindle ebooks, right?
 

Offline 0dbTopic starter

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2020, 12:30:37 pm »
Hmm, maybe it's handled differently in different parts of the world, or has changed over time. I am pretty sure the Kindles we got were pre-registered, but that was several years ago.

Registered to whom? And with which device-name? And what if you want to purchase a Kindle to give someone a gift?

To me "pre-registering" doesn't make any sense, and it's not what I received from Amazon with my last two KindlePaperWhite purchases, of which, one of them was actually a gift for a friend.

If there were no DRM, as you claimed earlier

I clearly wrote it: mostly of my ebook come already DRM unprotected because I can copy them from my kindle to my computer and read them without any problem as well as I can share them, and this also applies to a brand new not yet registered Kindle device.

Then I offered some alternatives and possibilities about sharing ebooks:
  • (DRM-free) -> ePubor/Calibre or similar to remove the DRM protection:: not exactly "legal"
  • (DRM-free) -> attach a pdf file to an email, send it to your Kindle email address and it will be available on your Kindle:: perfectly legal
  • (DRM-free) -> buy from Smashwords and get DRM-free MOBI files directly from publishers or authors::perfectly legal
  • (DRM-free) -> buy an ePub from publishers or authors, then convert .epub into .mobi via Calibre for the Kindle to read:: perfectly legal
  • (DRM-protected) -> Amazon Family or Loan eBooks to a friend:: perfectly legal

I opened this topic to talk about the zone/region limitation (solved thanks to Smashwords).
Not about DRMs :D
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Amazon:: I don't understand the "kindle" format
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2020, 12:42:40 pm »
Registered to whom?
And with which device-name? And what if you want to purchase a Kindle to give someone a gift?
Pre-registered to the same account which was used to buy the device.
I didn't say that you cannot change the name, or change the registration to another account. I just stated that -- in my experience, which may be incomplete or outdated -- there is no such thing as an "unregistered" Kindle.

Quote
I clearly wrote it: mostly of my ebook come already DRM unprotected because I can copy them from my kindle to my computer and read them without any problem as well as I can share them, and this also applies to a brand new not yet registered Kindle device.
And I challenged that conclusion, because (a) the Kinde reader on your computer would be connected to the same user account under which the ebook was bought, and (b) I didn't think there is a "not yet registered" Kindle device, as discussed above.

Quote
I opened this topic to talk about the zone/region limitation (solved thanks to Smashwords).
Not about DRMs :D
But you don't "own" the thread in a way where you could limit which topics get discussed. 8)  And you did talk about DRM, didn't you?
 


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