General > General Technical Chat
An expensive TV is a poor investment, and people spend FAR too much on them
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Zero999:

--- Quote from: TimFox on February 04, 2022, 06:47:31 pm ---"IPS" flat-panel displays can also suffer from burned-in images when the image does not change.
-hp- explicitly denies warranty for such displays used with unchanging images, such as surveillance monitors.

--- End quote ---
I've seen the same on 7 segment LED displays. There's a power supply where I work, with 24 burned in on the voltage display, which can be seen with the power off. It surprised me that the heat/light from the red LEDs was enough to bleach the filter, but I suppose it took tens of thousands of hours.
tooki:

--- Quote from: MK14 on February 04, 2022, 07:11:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: TimFox on February 04, 2022, 06:47:31 pm ---"IPS" flat-panel displays can also suffer from burned-in images when the image does not change.
-hp- explicitly denies warranty for such displays used with unchanging images, such as surveillance monitors.

--- End quote ---

Are you really talking about IPS, or might you have meant OLED ?

I've yet to see any image retention or image burn on any IPS or LCD (IPS is a form of LCD screen, as well) monitor or TV.

I've seen it on CRTs though.

EDIT: Here is a source, where they tried on purpose to create image burns, on all 3 TV (monitor) types. It would seem their results indicate, success with creating the problem with OLED, but IPS and VA, didn't show any such issues. Over a very long period of time, such as two years.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/permanent-image-retention-burn-in-lcd-oled

--- End quote ---
It’s definitely a thing, I’ve seen it before on IPS computer displays, with the Windows task bar or Mac menu bar stuck. I’ve also seen it on ATMs and ticket machines. But it’s usually not permanent, exercising the display with video normally gets rid of it.
TimFox:
This is a warranty disclaimer that I received from -hp- with my IPS monitor:

"Monitors
All Monitor models are not suitable for applications that exhibit static, stationary, or fixed images. Static images may cause image retention damage that may appear as stains or watermarks on the screen. This HP Limited Warranty does not cover monitors that are in use for applications that exhibit static, stationary, or fixed images for long periods or for 24-hours per day that result in image retention damage. To avoid image retention damage, turn off the monitor when it is not in use or use a power management setting, if supported by your system, to turn off the display when the system is idle."
BrianHG:
I spent approx 6K$ on this Mitsubishi AM3501R back in early 90s:


I thought it was a great investment.  It was the first 35inch progressive multiscan monitor which could natively go up to 38Khz even though I pushed it higher.

It was the only CRT with perfect corner-corner convergence.  Displayed 1280x960 72hz laced desktop with a legible fine font and it's color and black level regulation was near perfect.  Dead perfect smooth MPEG2 HD movies at the time.  (In the early 2000s once they became available...)

I used it up until 2015 and then gave it to a friend as a gift.  That's around 24 years of use.  How can you say an expensive TV is a poor investment, being that it was really super expensive for a 35inch display of the time.  This was the only screen at the time which save my ears from that stupid 15.7KHz coil whine noise and got rid of the flicker and every other screen was a flickery 15khz corner unfocused with terrible convergence mess which couldn't even be connected to a PC in progressive or higher speed interlaced RGB modes, let alone be usefully functional for 24 years.

And yes, the Chassis was made of real wood...
MK14:

--- Quote from: tooki on February 04, 2022, 08:33:16 pm ---It’s definitely a thing, I’ve seen it before on IPS computer displays, with the Windows task bar or Mac menu bar stuck. I’ve also seen it on ATMs and ticket machines. But it’s usually not permanent, exercising the display with video normally gets rid of it.

--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: TimFox on February 04, 2022, 09:30:37 pm ---This is a warranty disclaimer that I received from -hp- with my IPS monitor:

"Monitors
All Monitor models are not suitable for applications that exhibit static, stationary, or fixed images. Static images may cause image retention damage that may appear as stains or watermarks on the screen. This HP Limited Warranty does not cover monitors that are in use for applications that exhibit static, stationary, or fixed images for long periods or for 24-hours per day that result in image retention damage. To avoid image retention damage, turn off the monitor when it is not in use or use a power management setting, if supported by your system, to turn off the display when the system is idle."

--- End quote ---


I have heard there can be image retention issues, with IPS monitors. But it seems, that it has never applied to any IPS monitor/TV I have been involved with or seen, so far. Also, (as Tooki says), it is usually the much more minor, temporary image retention type. Which is NOT permanent, and is perhaps due to uneven heating effects or something.

What really worries me, is the PERMANENT screen burns, that can occur with OLED monitors/TVs, e.g. with fixed/stationary images, while watching OLED TVs. Especially if it has been set to a bright setting, and especially with older OLED TVs. The later and later generations of OLED TVs, have used techniques to try and at least reduce, the possibility and effects of permanent screen burn. But it is still suppose to be a problem with OLED screens.

tl;dr
I don't seem to ever encounter or significantly hear of screen burn or image retention issues on IPS screens. I have (rarely) seen reports about it, but not often enough to really believe it. As the internet is a very big place, and you can usually get people claiming all sorts of weird things, such as free energy devices, Elvis is still alive, etc.

Whereas, I've heard a lot about OLED screens, getting permanent screen burn and/or bad image retention problems.

I don't hugely react to the warning in the manual you quoted (thanks for that). Because, sometimes manuals warn about all sorts of things, just to defend themselves in court and other reasons, rather than necessarily actual problems.

But I do concede, I have heard rumors of IPS image retention, and I have also seen lots of things (as sometimes, I'm very interested in that subject area), which say that later/modern IPS screens, have somewhat badly cut-corners, to save money, rather than make a quality, long lasting product. By moving to Edge-Lit LED backlighting, with too few LEDs, running too hot, with too little cooling. Which are not expected to last a long time and/or be reliable.
Which perhaps (overheating in panel), maybe makes issues with the LCD (which probably don't like high temperatures), which could be image retention.
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