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An observation on homework problems

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Kjelt:
You don't know what you don't know, so solving homework on subjects that have not been taught are making this generation just to google to find the answers, so it is pointless IMO. That is homework of previous generations where the answers could only be found in the library, or further on in the books.

My observation of the new geberations of students is impatience. They want something, they want it now, not in hours of trial and error. It is the arduino generation and does it matter actually how they make it work in he end, as long as they make it work? Same with homework, I am glad if they do it instead if having to s of excuses to not have it.

IanB:

--- Quote from: Buriedcode on March 02, 2019, 05:35:33 pm ---I'm not sure what this topic is about.
...
It's all well and good memorizing, or becoming knowledgeable in many fields, but ultimately, it's your time.  I agree that engineers, and of course, scientists, should have a grasp of all the fundamentals - so one understands the underlying principles, but that doesn't meant to say all engineers should work from first principles all the time - thats just a waste of everyone's time.

--- End quote ---

I agree, I don't think you have quite understood what this topic is about.

It is not about memorizing, or becoming knowledgeable (i.e. "knowing facts"). It is about exercising the brain muscle.

In the real world of engineering there is a need to solve problems. Problem solving is a skill that has to be learned, it's about recognizing patterns and situations, about being able to "fill in the gaps" with appropriately learned intuition, and knowing what are the right things to do in what order to unlock the puzzle and find a solution.

These are all skills that take practice and effort and dedication. They don't come from books and the internet. They can't be taught in class (but they might be coached by a tutor).

There is an analogy here with sports and many other pursuits. To excel at any given sport you have to practice every day and work hard on your skills. Someone can't make you into a competitive tennis player just by telling you how to play each shot in a classroom. You can't make yourself into a competitive tennis player just by reading books or by watching other people play. To get better at tennis you have to put time in on the court, learning by doing. You have to work at it.

(Edited for clarification)

rhb:

--- Quote from: Kjelt on March 02, 2019, 06:18:11 pm ---You don't know what you don't know, so solving homework on subjects that have not been taught are making this generation just to google to find the answers, so it is pointless IMO. That is homework of previous generations where the answers could only be found in the library, or further on in the books.

My observation of the new geberations of students is impatience. They want something, they want it now, not in hours of trial and error. It is the arduino generation and does it matter actually how they make it work in he end, as long as they make it work? Same with homework, I am glad if they do it instead if having to s of excuses to not have it.

--- End quote ---

The hallmark of a well trained PhD *is* knowing what they don't know.  Knowing *very* precisely what you know and what you don't know, the exact location of the boundary, is essential to the process of discovery.

Today we have a lot of PhDs who cannot separate facts from hypotheses.  Some of them are Nobel laureates.

A very common homework problem asks the student something they have been taught, but places it in a different context so they have to look for the relationship. The most common problem simply asks the student to apply the information they have been given to solving a problem.

I was trained as a scientist, not an engineer.  So I am more accustomed to reframing the question in terms of first principles.  Good engineers do the same thing.  Poor ones are helpless if they encounter something they've not memorized.  Hence all the hand wringing about becoming obsolete 10 years after graduation.  Good engineers become obsolete when they die, not before.

The reframing is for the purpose of identifying the problem.  Then I consider what I already know and whether I already know how to find the answer or if it is something new.  I have had countless people come in my office at work asking that I write a program for them.  Nearly always after I asked a few questions they said, "Oh, I know how to do that." and ran off.

IanB got my point very precisely.  I'd quibble with his usage of "knowledge", but that's a very minor point.  I define "knowledge" as the ability to apply information to resolve a problem or question.  A consequence of 5 years spent getting a liberal arts degree in English literature.

Practice is required even if you have already mastered something.  I was skilled at drywall and concrete work.  I did a lot of that to pay for my MS.  The trowel trades depend on your sense of touch.  If you don't do it for a long time, you lose the feel and it will take at a minimum several days to get it back. Playing a musical instrument is the same way.  If you don't play every day your skills diminish rapidly.  There is a 3-4 minute guitar piece I wrote which I cannot play.  And as I am musically illiterate, it takes a huge struggle over several days just to remember it.  Even when I can remember it, it's quite difficult and took me a month to learn to play when I wrote it.

If you still doubt the importance of actually *doing* things, pull out a calculus book and solve some integrals or differential equations.

IanMacdonald:

--- Quote from: nctnico on March 02, 2019, 02:42:05 pm ---The problem is that in today's world you are likely not to have enough time to learn everything. The complexity is just too big. So instead it makes more sense to built from existing building blocks. Kind of like using software libraries.

--- End quote ---
The problem with this approach is that you become an 'appliance user' - Never understanding how anything you use works. That, and you end up using 0.001% of each of ten different 1GB software libraries to do a job that could be done with 1KB of proper code. This is basically why Windows 7 and 10 are so bloated compared to Windows XP.

You see the same thing on the Web, where someone wants to start a website but has little knowledge of how to, so they start by installing WordPress or the like. Because, it seems like it will make the process 'automatic' -or something. The consequence is that to create anything original they now need to understand not just a simple and easily learned markup like HTML, but labyrinthine object-oriented PHP code with deeply nested functions, plus bespoke markup for theme definitions etc.  Since they realise they are never going to understand this, they instead start searching for ready-written themes or plugins that will do what they want,  find that most of them are junk, and of the few that aren't junk, some have nasty security vulns.

If they added up the time spent on this process they'd probably be surprised to find that they could have learned the basics of HTML a lot more quickly than it's taken. Plus, learning HTML is an ongoing process, and as they learn more they can do more, whereas with the 'appliance-user' approach of searching for CMS plugins it's basically like rolling dice over and over again and hoping you get a six this time. A skill which doesn't actually improve with time spent doing it.

rhb:
A very nice summary of where we are today and why.  Thank you.

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