General > General Technical Chat
An observation on homework problems
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Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: Kjelt on March 03, 2019, 07:28:59 pm ---No it is not and most threads can not be put in pre-labeled boxes, if you do you are the one doing the filtering with a preconception which says more about you than the thread. Can we continue on content.

--- End quote ---
Irony is saying this in a thread more than one is using to confirm his own preconceived notions.
Kjelt:
Isn't that what a discussion is all about? Checking ones view on a subject and discuss it with others?
There is no need or request to label the discussion only to participate.
rhb:
All of this is very far from my original point that the purpose of homework is to solidify the student's understanding of the subject by having them apply what they have been taught in the form of solving problems.  And that the benefit of homework is in direct proportion to the amount of effort the student puts into solving the problem without outside assistance.

I have this ridiculous expectation that an educated individual will understand logic at the subtlety of Plato, Locke, Hume, Kant and Camus, have mastery of applied mathematics such as differential equations and integral transforms and have a basic knowledge of chemistry, geology, biology and physics as taught in a 2-3 semester sequence in each making full use of mathematics where appropriate.

Furthermore, have the ability to write clearly and grammatically with proper punctuation and spelling, and not be so deluded as to think that they are right and everyone who disagrees with them is automatically wrong without any discussion.

That is the essence of a good liberal arts education.  University  has been degraded into an expensive vocational training program.  It is still possible to get an education, but it now takes a lot more  effort swimming against the current.  How can anyone acquire the ability to make a critical analysis if opposing viewpoints are not permitted lest some poor soul be traumatized by exposure to a different viewpoint.

Engineers in particular, are inclined to sneer at liberal arts graduates.  Certainly, there are many who receive liberal arts degrees without learning anything.  Tertiary education is now a scam to defraud young people with false promises and convince them to enslave themselves with debt.

But:

We all get what we deserve whether we want it or not, either as individuals or as members of a group.  Sometimes this is as punishment and sometimes it's a blessing.  Which is always ambiguous and depends entirely on what we do next.

I rather suspect that a lot of university faculty and administrators will be quite dismayed when they discover that their pensions are dependent upon the financial well being of the students they have defrauded.  As the saying goes, what goes around, comes around.
coppice:
You have no idea how well you have learned a subject until you come to apply your knowledge. Applying might be a matter of working through some homework problems, working through some real world problems, or teaching the topic to other people. The smartest in the class acting as tutor to the middling students in the class usually benefits both groups - the smartest find the gaps in their understanding, and can fill them in. The middling students get a better basic understanding of the topic. This tutoring idea has its limits, though. If the smartest try mentoring the weakest students it can end up wasting both group's time (depending on how big the spread of ability and education on the course might be).

I have found that homework generally works best when you don't spend an excessive amount of time trying to solve difficult problems on your own. It you find a problem that hard, you probably lack a piece of knowledge needed to solve it. Working in peer groups after a moderate amount of time on your own is a good step for efficient learning. Different people in the group typically have different gaps in their knowledge, and together they can get to a solution, benefiting all. Unless the peer group is really lacking in some area, going beyond the peer group for a solution should really be a last resort.
Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: rhb on March 03, 2019, 08:43:37 pm ---All of this is very far from my original point that the purpose of homework is to solidify the student's understanding of the subject by having them apply what they have been taught in the form of solving problems.  And that the benefit of homework is in direct proportion to the amount of effort the student puts into solving the problem without outside assistance.

I have this ridiculous expectation that an educated individual will understand logic at the subtlety of Plato, Locke, Hume, Kant and Camus, have mastery of applied mathematics such as differential equations and integral transforms and have a basic knowledge of chemistry, geology, biology and physics as taught in a 2-3 semester sequence in each making full use of mathematics where appropriate.

Furthermore, have the ability to write clearly and grammatically with proper punctuation and spelling, and not be so deluded as to think that they are right and everyone who disagrees with them is automatically wrong without any discussion.

That is the essence of a good liberal arts education.  University  has been degraded into an expensive vocational training program.  It is still possible to get an education, but it now takes a lot more  effort swimming against the current.  How can anyone acquire the ability to make a critical analysis if opposing viewpoints are not permitted lest some poor soul be traumatized by exposure to a different viewpoint.

Engineers in particular, are inclined to sneer at liberal arts graduates.  Certainly, there are many who receive liberal arts degrees without learning anything.  Tertiary education is now a scam to defraud young people with false promises and convince them to enslave themselves with debt.

But:

We all get what we deserve whether we want it or not, either as individuals or as members of a group.  Sometimes this is as punishment and sometimes it's a blessing.  Which is always ambiguous and depends entirely on what we do next.

I rather suspect that a lot of university faculty and administrators will be quite dismayed when they discover that their pensions are dependent upon the financial well being of the students they have defrauded.  As the saying goes, what goes around, comes around.

--- End quote ---
I agree with your idea that homework or exercises are supposed to solidify someone's understanding by having them apply it, but I don't think the notion that the benefits being proportional to the amount of effort the student puts in has been demonstrated or proven. It may very well be that students dwelling on subjects too long will miss out in other areas. As science advances, education has to provide knowledge about much more subjects and going all out with every single one isn't possible. Doing what worked 40 years ago isn't realistic or sensible. Instead the focus is more on giving students tools with which they can develop themselves into whatever is required.

Research indicates that modern day students are better communicators than their older peers. It's one of the perks of living in the era of information. Don't let badly written Twitter and Facebook messages fool you.

I don't agree with your fairly negative assessment of everything being worse than it used to be. The world has changed, and education has too. Students have much more information at their disposal, and need to develop different strategies to be successful in today's world. I don't see modern education producing students less prepared or able than it used to and thinking it is may be a sign one has fallen behind to the point of no longer understanding how things work. At that point it's best to move over and leave things to the next generation.
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