General > General Technical Chat
Android platform, what a mess
SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: eti on February 18, 2022, 06:50:59 pm ---
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on February 18, 2022, 06:49:16 pm ---You can perfectly use Android without any Google service.
--- End quote ---
And you can use a car without wheels to keep chickens in.
This ridiculous obsession with source code is meaningless.
--- End quote ---
What are you even on about?
Yes you can use Android without Google services. And no it doesn't make it useless. There are tons of alternative App stores actually - if you're just talking about that. (And of course you can always install apps manually without a store.) You still get all the functionalities that an OS is supposed to give you.
And obsession with source code? Many Android-based systems are built successfully from source code. That's even the only way of customizing it. There are tons of tutorials out there for you to do that. And you're free to do so and use it as you see fit. That's what open source is all about.
While I don't particularly like the architecture of Android as I said, this has nothing to do with it not being open.
Nominal Animal:
--- Quote from: eti on February 18, 2022, 08:18:05 am ---There's a much nicer, simpler, stress-free solution, called iOS.
--- End quote ---
:-DD
What? You're actually serious?
This thread reminds me of how I a long time ago stumbled onto thunderbolts.info.
It starts with a logical, rational complaint: that electrical phenomena, especially static charge buildup and discharge effects between asteroids and other solid objects in space, have been overlooked when considering space phenomena.
Then it does a mind-bender, and continues as if it was a logical conclusion, that "therefore the Sun and all stars are a purely electrical phenomena, generated where galactic currents happen to intersect".
I understand your complaints, and agree with many, eti. However, your conclusions seem absolutely irrational and illogical.
Also, I am a bit hurt that you so easily ridicule what I and others do for fun: pore through kernel and low level library sources, regularly read development mailing lists, and fix bugs in widely used code just because we can and like it as a hobby. (The hard part there is not the code itself –– not even in the case of the Linux kernel ––, but the developer intent. It is when the project refuses to describe how it is supposed to work, say via ToDo: explain how this works, that external review is useless because who knows how it is supposed to work... also explains how a trivial root privilege escalation bug can remain undiscovered in a piece of software used in most Linux distributions for twelve years.)
This is where the recent Political Correctness and social dictats like Codes of Conduct come in. Whenever a project installs one, the end result is that the core group of developers stop interacting with people they don't already know, just to make sure they do not accidentally Cancel themselves. This also means that when somebody reports an existing bug or two, even in the Linux kernel, it is just safer to not engage. And this means that drive-by bug-fixing is not really possible anymore; one has to build up a presence first, to even have the members of the developer community read ones emails/posts. You now must be social before you can be effectively technical, even online.
Your suggestion that "since Google is Evil, your best option is Apple, because open source is a ridiculous obsession" is simply utterly incoherent. You could just as well demand the legalisation of slavery, because you know people who are into BDSM.
The point is not to find an existing Utopia you can buy, but to work with what we have right now, and try to make it consistently better one step at a time.
eti:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on February 18, 2022, 08:31:12 pm ---
--- Quote from: eti on February 18, 2022, 08:18:05 am ---There's a much nicer, simpler, stress-free solution, called iOS.
--- End quote ---
:-DD
What? You're actually serious?
This thread reminds me of how I a long time ago stumbled onto thunderbolts.info.
It starts with a logical, rational complaint: that electrical phenomena, especially static charge buildup and discharge effects between asteroids and other solid objects in space, have been overlooked when considering space phenomena.
Then it does a mind-bender, and continues as if it was a logical conclusion, that "therefore the Sun and all stars are a purely electrical phenomena, generated where galactic currents happen to intersect".
I understand your complaints, and agree with many, eti. However, your conclusions seem absolutely irrational and illogical.
Also, I am a bit hurt that you so easily ridicule what I and others do for fun: pore through kernel and low level library sources, regularly read development mailing lists, and fix bugs in widely used code just because we can and like it as a hobby. (The hard part there is not the code itself –– not even in the case of the Linux kernel ––, but the developer intent. It is when the project refuses to describe how it is supposed to work, say via ToDo: explain how this works, that external review is useless because who knows how it is supposed to work... also explains how a trivial root privilege escalation bug can remain undiscovered in a piece of software used in most Linux distributions for twelve years.)
This is where the recent Political Correctness and social dictats like Codes of Conduct come in. Whenever a project installs one, the end result is that the core group of developers stop interacting with people they don't already know, just to make sure they do not accidentally Cancel themselves. This also means that when somebody reports an existing bug or two, even in the Linux kernel, it is just safer to not engage. And this means that drive-by bug-fixing is not really possible anymore; one has to build up a presence first, to even have the members of the developer community read ones emails/posts. You now must be social before you can be effectively technical, even online.
Your suggestion that "since Google is Evil, your best option is Apple, because open source is a ridiculous obsession" is simply utterly incoherent. You could just as well demand the legalisation of slavery, because you know people who are into BDSM.
The point is not to find an existing Utopia you can buy, but to work with what we have right now, and try to make it consistently better one step at a time.
--- End quote ---
Multiplication of words doesn't increase wisdom of said words.
I got:
~ You're "hurt" :o
~ Some weird, disgusting, filthy comparison regarding vile sexual acts
PS: People have eyes, and can read. Those of them with those faculties, together with some discerment and sense, will know I didn't mention ANYTHING about Google being "evil", and therefore Apple being better by default, because of this. You're imagining that, and that could be seen as "voices in my head". Even a fool appears wise when he remains silent, Mr Tux.
I bow out. Knock yourself out :-+
Bassman59:
--- Quote from: daqq on February 18, 2022, 08:29:38 am ---
--- Quote ---I do not need to "backup" my "claims" - it's a viewpoint.
--- End quote ---
Does this viewpoint not conflict with the viewpoint presented in one of your other threads claiming that an expensive TV is a BS expense?
The way Android works and exists allows the creation of phones that cost 50 USD all the way up to phones that cost 1500 USD with specs comparable to lesser desktops and cameras that allow you to count the hairs on someones head.
You mention Apple as the alternative. The cheapest iphone I can see (new, non second hand) is ~480 EUR (~550 USD). That's a lot of cash for the bottom of the range.
--- End quote ---
I do not know how prices differ on either side of the pond, but here in the US the iPhone SE's base (64 GB flash) is $399, as listed on Apple's web site.
gnif:
Edit: Note I replied here before I realised the thread had been locked, as an administrator SMF allows this and while it does provide a small warning I missed it. My apologies.
--- Quote from: eti on February 18, 2022, 08:35:21 am ---Apple are VERY trustworthy, and doing the years of work and research in that industry that I've done, you'd know it too (and no, I am not going to "prove it to you" in case you ask, lol)
--- End quote ---
Ok, let me prove the opposite....
https://github.com/illusionofchaos/ios-analyticsd-pre14.7-exploit
--- Quote ---* medical information (heart rate, count of detected atrial fibrillation and irregular heart rythm events)
* menstrual cycle length, biological sex and age, whether user is logging sexual activity, cervical mucus quality, etc.
* device usage information (device pickups in different contexts, push notifications count and user's action, etc.)
* screen time information and session count for all applications with their respective bundle IDs
* information about device accessories with their manufacturer, model, firmware version and user-assigned names
* application crashes with bundle IDs and exception codes
* languages of web pages that user viewed in Safari
All this information is being collected by Apple for unknown purposes, which is quite disturbing, especially the fact that medical information is being collected. That's why it's very hypocritical of Apple to claim that they deeply care about privacy. All this data was being collected and available to an attacker even if "Share analytics" was turned off in settings.
--- End quote ---
At the end of the day BOTH iOS and Android have their flaws, one is completely closed and controlled by a monopoly... the other is semi-open and controlled by a monopoly.
Is the decision to use Java for Android a good one?, IMO no, I think it's a laughable waste of resources and goes against the goal of saving battery power and CPU cycles.
Is Apple overreaching in dictating how their devices are used? Yes, a big fat yes. Taking developers and software off their platform a at a whim is disgusting behaviour. Back when the iPod touch and iPhone was released Adobe Shockwave Flash was still in very common use and Adobe had invested millions in developing products like Adobe Flex which allowed one to write applications using Flash (yeah, sound's horrid today, but remember this was before HTML5 and you had to write a website and test it across 5-6 browsers for compatibility and hack around the Internet Explorer issues).
The small family owned company I worked for a the time invested a good deal of money in my training and writing products to use Adobe Flex, only to find out later that Apple were blocking Shockwave from Apple devices. Adobe did what they could and wrote a compiler that would literally compile an apple compliant application from the Flex application that did not make use of Shockwave Flash at all (Adobe AIR). A short while later Apple blocked all submissions of applications that were compiled with this compiler making the claim that it was still Flash, which was a lie.
IMO Apple are Evil, as are Google, but Android being somewhat open gives us some options, iOS on the other hand :-//
Edit: Also of note, high end expensive equipment that is not a TV also runs Android. The Sony A7 series of professional cameras use Android.
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