Author Topic: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore  (Read 3883 times)

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Offline Lightages

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Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« on: April 28, 2017, 04:39:34 am »
Just a heads up, I have given up trying to distribute Brymen in South America. There is nothing wrong with Brymen as a brand, nor is there any problem with their quality. I still believe Brymen meters to be one of the best buys in multimeters for most people.

My decision comes from the economic realities of trying to sell anything in South America against the global market. Brymen does not seem to be able to control the sales of their products to protect local distributors and I find my self competing against European behemoths who can sell world wide while Brymen prevents me from selling the same way.

This is the basis of my decision and has nothing to do with the quality or value of Brymen equipment. It has everything to do with being forced to compete in a world wide market with rules forced on me making it impossible to compete where I live and not be able to sell world wide whereas my competition is allowed to.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 04:44:48 am by Lightages »
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 04:47:55 am »
This is happening everywhere. You're not the only victim of the global walmartization of everything.
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 11:12:46 am »
And think that you are in Chile, the most stable (or should I say in the least disarray) country in South America.
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Offline MosherIV

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 12:38:35 pm »
Sorry to hear that Lightages.

Hope you can make thing work without Brymen.

Look forward to seeing posts from you in future  :-+
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2017, 05:38:52 pm »
Brymen does not seem to be able to control the sales of their products to protect local distributors and I find my self competing against European behemoths who can sell world wide while Brymen prevents me from selling the same way.
How can Brymen controlling the sales of their products possibly be a good thing for the consumer? All it would do is stifle competition and keep prices artificially high.

I disagree with Brymen preventing you from selling to other countries: you should be able to sell to whoever you like.
 
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Online Ice-Tea

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2017, 05:51:49 pm »
Brymen does not seem to be able to control the sales of their products to protect local distributors and I find my self competing against European behemoths who can sell world wide while Brymen prevents me from selling the same way.
How can Brymen controlling the sales of their products possibly be a good thing for the consumer? All it would do is stifle competition and keep prices artificially high.

I disagree with Brymen preventing you from selling to other countries: you should be able to sell to whoever you like.

Regional control does make sense. Otherwise the problem is that people will search the globe for the lowest price but will come to the local distributor for service. The local distributor will make an effort to promote the product on fairs, herhaps put out adds etc etc. People will see it and bypass the distributor for the lowest possible offer.

You are right, off course: at its worst, it will keep prices high. At its best, its the best way to ensure local support for what you have bought.

Offline boffin

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 05:54:35 pm »
Brymen does not seem to be able to control the sales of their products to protect local distributors and I find my self competing against European behemoths who can sell world wide while Brymen prevents me from selling the same way.
How can Brymen controlling the sales of their products possibly be a good thing for the consumer? All it would do is stifle competition and keep prices artificially high.

I disagree with Brymen preventing you from selling to other countries: you should be able to sell to whoever you like.

1) You sign an exclusive deal to sell Brymen in a country (let's call it Elbonia)
2) The dealer in Equatorial Kundu starts selling directly to people in Elbonia

You say WTF ?  You gave me an exclusive (backed up by contract).  Company says "ooh, yeah, need to make sure that dealers in #1 don't sue me for allowing #2 to sell into #1, breaking my own contract", hence the restriction.


 

Online Zero999

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2017, 06:06:17 pm »
Brymen does not seem to be able to control the sales of their products to protect local distributors and I find my self competing against European behemoths who can sell world wide while Brymen prevents me from selling the same way.
How can Brymen controlling the sales of their products possibly be a good thing for the consumer? All it would do is stifle competition and keep prices artificially high.

I disagree with Brymen preventing you from selling to other countries: you should be able to sell to whoever you like.

Regional control does make sense. Otherwise the problem is that people will search the globe for the lowest price but will come to the local distributor for service.
Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. The local distributor has no obligation to offer any service to those who bought the product from someone else. They have every right to tell them to deal with whoever they bought the item from. It would be like buying something from ebay, having a problem with it, then popping into your local highstreet store, who sells the same product and expecting them to help you.

When someone buys something, off a third party, their contract is with the seller, not the manufacturer or local distributor. It's the person who sold it so them, they need to go to for warranty issues and support. If the seller is abroad, it can be more difficult for the customer to get service. People have a choice: buy from a local distributor, pay more but be sure they'll get support, or pay less to an international seller and run the risk of not getting any support.
 

Online Ice-Tea

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2017, 06:48:40 pm »
Brymen does not seem to be able to control the sales of their products to protect local distributors and I find my self competing against European behemoths who can sell world wide while Brymen prevents me from selling the same way.
How can Brymen controlling the sales of their products possibly be a good thing for the consumer? All it would do is stifle competition and keep prices artificially high.

I disagree with Brymen preventing you from selling to other countries: you should be able to sell to whoever you like.

Regional control does make sense. Otherwise the problem is that people will search the globe for the lowest price but will come to the local distributor for service.
Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. The local distributor has no obligation to offer any service to those who bought the product from someone else. They have every right to tell them to deal with whoever they bought the item from. It would be like buying something from ebay, having a problem with it, then popping into your local highstreet store, who sells the same product and expecting them to help you.

This is exactly what happens, actually. Not that they have a right to it, but it *is* what happens. At some point, I offered certain products and did a shitload of research for it and invested considerable amounts in that research. Worked fine for some time, untill some eBay shops started selling product that were at first sight comparable (and sometimes were indeed the same). I then started receiving mails asking and sometimes demanding advise on which product off eBay would be the most likely to yield good results.

Quote
When someone buys something, off a third party, their contract is with the seller, not the manufacturer or local distributor. It's the person who sold it so them, they need to go to for warranty issues and support. If the seller is abroad, it can be more difficult for the customer to get service. People have a choice: buy from a local distributor, pay more but be sure they'll get support, or pay less to an international seller and run the risk of not getting any support.

That's where you're wrong. It is not just the buyers choice, the brand itself will also choose if they wish to be a brand that offers excellent local service and support. If the brand allows local distris to go out of bussiness because they can't handle the abroad competition, the choice you mentioned above no longer exists, much to the detriment of the brand.

Online blueskull

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 06:59:46 pm »
I disagree with Brymen preventing you from selling to other countries: you should be able to sell to whoever you like.

Regional control does make sense. Otherwise the problem is that people will search the globe for the lowest price but will come to the local distributor for service.

Then why not stop offering global warranty? Where you buy, where you service.

This is actually what happens in China on consumer electronics -- many Chinese buyers buy from US or HK to evade VAT and sellers' profit, while the government and seller join force to not offer local warranty for foreign purchased goods. It seems to work -- those want warranty will buy locally, paying VAT and sellers' profit, while those don't care about warranty will buy smuggled goods from HK or US, and take the potential loss due to damage or interception/confiscation by customs.

There are also companies that do legitimate abroad purchasing business in China, such as Amazon, they ship form Amazon US, declare tax properly, and they pay import tax on behalf of you. You can save domestic sellers' profit, while still being legal and Amazon.cn offers free return shipping should damage within warranty period happens.

With such killer service and brand backing it, the Amazon.cn business model can be spread worldwide, killing domestic businesses that are not competitive enough to compete Amazon US in terms of price.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2017, 07:04:55 pm »
If the brand allows local distris to go out of bussiness because they can't handle the abroad competition, the choice you mentioned above no longer exists, much to the detriment of the brand.

The way of solving it is to put a holograph sticker with anti clone features on each product, while logging serial number. If you bring in a broken product that is not sold by that seller/distributor/allied-distributor, then you're not getting service, at least not free service.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2017, 07:15:15 pm »
I disagree with Brymen preventing you from selling to other countries: you should be able to sell to whoever you like.

Regional control does make sense. Otherwise the problem is that people will search the globe for the lowest price but will come to the local distributor for service.

Then why not stop offering global warranty? Where you buy, where you service.

This is actually what happens in China on consumer electronics -- many Chinese buyers buy from US or HK to evade VAT and sellers' profit, while the government and seller join force to not offer local warranty for foreign purchased goods. It seems to work -- those want warranty will buy locally, paying VAT and sellers' profit, while those don't care about warranty will buy smuggled goods from HK or US, and take the potential loss due to damage or interception/confiscation by customs.

There are also companies that do legitimate abroad purchasing business in China, such as Amazon, they ship form Amazon US, declare tax properly, and they pay import tax on behalf of you. You can save domestic sellers' profit, while still being legal and Amazon.cn offers free return shipping should damage within warranty period happens.

With such killer service and brand backing it, the Amazon.cn business model can be spread worldwide, killing domestic businesses that are not competitive enough to compete Amazon US in terms of price.
Perhaps people just don't value the service any more and are more bothered about price? I would have thought that might be the case for hobbyists and private individuals but not for big companies.

If the brand allows local distris to go out of bussiness because they can't handle the abroad competition, the choice you mentioned above no longer exists, much to the detriment of the brand.

The way of solving it is to put a holograph sticker with anti clone features on each product, while logging serial number. If you bring in a broken product that is not sold by that seller/distributor/allied-distributor, then you're not getting service, at least not free service.
Why not simply only deal with those who've you've sold to? That's how it works for everything else. Someone buys a product, they get a receipt and the vendor records the serial number, against the customer's name.

As far as cloning is concerned. Anti-reverse engineering measures will only go so far. The only way to get round that is to continuously innovate, keeping the design fresh.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2017, 07:18:13 pm »
As far as cloning is concerned. Anti-reverse engineering measures will only go so far. The only way to get round that is to continuously innovate, keeping the design fresh.

I'm not talking about product cloning. I was talking about cloning of seller's sticker to disguise an online unit as locally purchased unit in order to get free warranty. Not all devices have serial number.
 

Online Ice-Tea

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2017, 07:19:16 pm »
Companies like TÜV offer such services, but that is not the point. Even if a local distri only offers service to the products it sold itself, he will still go out of bussiness if no products are bought with him because the overseas option is cheaper.

Imagine: a Brand has a local distri

1) Because the Brand forces the distri to offer service (qualified personel, ESD controlled area, T&M gear etc) their prices are higher than both large abroad competitors playing acording to the same rules and backdoor channel eBay sellers.
2) Because of this, they only sell a fraction of the volume bought in their region/country
3) They go out of bussiness, leaving the Brand without local support
4) Customers, even the ones hunting for the lowest possible price, will be put off by a brand that has no local presence of any kind.
5) The Brand suffers dropping sales (while they had little to no gains from people going around their official distri in the first place.

So, yes, a Brand does have a stake in setting up regional restrictions for their distributors. But as the OP mentioned, kinda difficult making that hard towards one of your biggest customers WW.

Online blueskull

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2017, 07:25:55 pm »
So, yes, a Brand does have a stake in setting up regional restrictions for their distributors.

Blame Chile, not the company. If I don't have to be a distributor and I can just buy from a distributor and the profited price plus my sales tax and Chile's import tax is still way cheaper than the retail price in Chile, then how can the Chile distributor compete with me? Besides, the buyer can also request to declare a fake CN22, which evades quite a lot of tax for a high import tax country like Chile, and this makes the price difference higher.

You can restrict distributors, but you can't restrict buyers. Also, I would like to f* a small business in order to get more sales from a bigger market. There are no friends in commercial world, only interest.

The only way to get around for Chile distributor is to manufacture locally, this gets rid of int'l shipping cost and import tax, and this is the only way to make their price competitive than a reshipper from a low tax country like US.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Announcement: I am not a Brymen distributor anymore
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2017, 07:39:23 pm »
Companies like TÜV offer such services, but that is not the point. Even if a local distri only offers service to the products it sold itself, he will still go out of bussiness if no products are bought with him because the overseas option is cheaper.

Imagine: a Brand has a local distri

1) Because the Brand forces the distri to offer service (qualified personel, ESD controlled area, T&M gear etc) their prices are higher than both large abroad competitors playing acording to the same rules and backdoor channel eBay sellers.
2) Because of this, they only sell a fraction of the volume bought in their region/country
3) They go out of bussiness, leaving the Brand without local support
4) Customers, even the ones hunting for the lowest possible price, will be put off by a brand that has no local presence of any kind.
5) The Brand suffers dropping sales (while they had little to no gains from people going around their official distri in the first place.

So, yes, a Brand does have a stake in setting up regional restrictions for their distributors. But as the OP mentioned, kinda difficult making that hard towards one of your biggest customers WW.
That's nothing new and is worse for electronics retail businesses, which have been in decline for many years.


As far as cloning is concerned. Anti-reverse engineering measures will only go so far. The only way to get round that is to continuously innovate, keeping the design fresh.

I'm not talking about product cloning. I was talking about cloning of seller's sticker to disguise an online unit as locally purchased unit in order to get free warranty. Not all devices have serial number.
Oh I see what you mean. Still the only way round that is to deal with your customers. You don't need serial numbers on your products. Keep records of who you sell what to. If someone hasn't bought it off you, then they don't get anything off you. If a random person contacts you, about a problem they've had with a product you sell, explain to them that they have a contract with the person who sold it to them and need to contact them for support.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 10:45:42 pm by Hero999 »
 


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