Author Topic: Another dangerous Amazon product  (Read 6349 times)

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Online Someone

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2023, 12:16:29 am »
Also, careful use of three-phase mains keeps track of "rotation", the lag/lead between the three live phases.
Otherwise, a three-phase motor will turn in the opposite direction.
There is a way around that.
 
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Online Siwastaja

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2023, 09:04:02 am »
What legislation is that? Schuko portable EV chargers run at 12 amps, 75% of the 16 amp rating.  That's what VW ship with their European cars...

You are right, I stand corrected, it isn't mandatory legislation, just national recommendations. Actually here people and companies take those recommendations seriously enough that finding a schuko portable evse over 8A takes some effort, only better equipped stores sell them. (And you can hear claims they are illegal when they are not. In any case, the whole discussion triggered from poor safety of 16A rated Schuko sockets and plugs when used anywhere near 16A, across many well-known manufacturers, even when the plugs are not visibly damaged. As mansaxel points out, 10A would be a more suitable rating.)

A decade back, I was present when there was lobbying going to make that 8A limit into EU legislation but I'm glad it didn't happen. But car manufacturers seem to take that seriously, too, e.g. Nissan Schuko chargers run at recommended 8A.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2023, 09:09:59 am by Siwastaja »
 

Offline themadhippy

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2023, 12:47:07 pm »
Quote
You are right, I stand corrected, it isn't mandatory legislation, just national recommendations.
They've pulled similar crap in the uk,our sockets,to comply with the appropate BS standards are required to chuck out at least 13A ,but that aint good enough,if the socket is to be used to charge EV's it needs to be a "special" socket complete with a little ev symbol.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2023, 01:12:24 pm »
Clearly, the US should upgrade to a BS1363 plug and socket system.   :popcorn:

NEMA connectors are chabuduo designs from the ancient past.
British plugs are a prime example of design committee suffering from health & safety variant of OCD.
CEE 7/7 is the pragmatic compromise.
It doesn’t enforce polarity, and the plugs are twice the size they need to be.

People should look at the Swiss plug system. It’s compact, safe, and has some really neat features (like three-phase outlets that accept single-phase plugs without needing any adapters or anything.)
It's rated for 10A, so hell no. Not as little power available as in US, but still, hell no. My pressure washer and welder are too power hungry for these.
The Swiss plug system encompasses both 10A and 16A variants in both single- and three-phase types. The 16A three-phase socket accepts all the plug variants.

For any loads larger than this, the big “CEE industrial” (IEC 60309) system is used.
 

Offline The Doktor

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2023, 01:32:24 pm »
The problem is that they're made of plastic and prevent one side of the plug from making contact. Just mae them from pure copper and they'll work great :-DD
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2023, 02:28:59 pm »
Apparently, the cure for an outlet that is so worn out that it cannot hold the plug is to tape the plug into the outlet.  Does Amazon sell these in other countries or are they only trying to burn down the USA?  There are so many products out there now that are just scary.

  (Attachment Link)

The image shown when the thumbnail is clicked isn't the same as the thumbnail. Perhaps if you'd posted the Amazon ASIN it would be ovbious what it's about, but as it is it's completely opaque.
 

Offline antennaTopic starter

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2023, 05:36:57 pm »
Apparently, the cure for an outlet that is so worn out that it cannot hold the plug is to tape the plug into the outlet.  Does Amazon sell these in other countries or are they only trying to burn down the USA?  There are so many products out there now that are just scary.

  (Attachment Link)

The image shown when the thumbnail is clicked isn't the same as the thumbnail. Perhaps if you'd posted the Amazon ASIN it would be ovbious what it's about, but as it is it's completely opaque.
I had two screenshots but deleted one before posting, not sure why they got mixed up.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2023, 05:53:58 pm »
Thanks  :-+
 

Offline antennaTopic starter

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2023, 07:13:05 pm »
That snug plug one was something else I wanted to comment on, being it will just wedge the connector into the plastic opening on the outlet with no guarantee the fatigued contacts inside are touching any better (and only on one side now). I had no idea the pictures got switched around. 
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2023, 07:37:37 pm »
I think it's an EEVBlog server thing. Meant to keep us on our toes or something.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2023, 09:09:25 pm »
People should look at the Swiss plug system. It’s compact, safe, and has some really neat features (like three-phase outlets that accept single-phase plugs without needing any adapters or anything.)

Or the very similar looking (lacking the three-phase bits, though) IEC 60906-1.
Indeed. It looks like it uses slightly thicker pins to enable it to always be 16A. No three-phase version though.

I also wonder why they switched the position of line and neutral in 60906-1 compared to the Swiss (and NEMA) outlets.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2023, 11:50:19 pm »
How many grandmothers are buying these to hold their power strip plug-in into the outlet and then without any thought to the bad connection, run other stuff on the power strip like a TV, sat box, surround sound system and an occasional vacuum cleaner?

Sounds like its intended for this two prong low power device: https://www.amazon.ca/HomePod-Management-Drilling-Excellent-Accessory/dp/B09VDL1FYV

If you use it for something else that is kind of your own problem.

edit: vacuums generally recommend to plug directly into the wall, not into a power strip. You can also use extension cords in series and burn down your house, should we not be allowed to sell low current extension cords too?

« Last Edit: November 14, 2023, 11:53:54 pm by thm_w »
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Online Siwastaja

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2023, 10:39:30 am »
You can also use extension cords in series and burn down your house, should we not be allowed to sell low current extension cords too?

Yes, you definitely should stop selling non-fused low-current extension cords. They are already obviously illegal in pretty much everywhere else except North America and maybe a few developing third-world countries.

Making it fused costs like $0.50 more; another options is rating it for high enough current. It is absolutely ridiculous to assume normal laymen would be calculating and respecting power ratings of extension cords, but as that youtuber points out, it kinda sorta works by irrational fear against extension cords in general.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2023, 11:55:07 am by Siwastaja »
 

Online Someone

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2023, 09:17:48 pm »
You can also use extension cords in series and burn down your house, should we not be allowed to sell low current extension cords too?
Yes, you definitely should stop selling non-fused low-current extension cords.
More generally allowing an unfused cable between generic/consumer connectors that are expected/able to carry higher currents.
Other examples that pop up periodically:
mains -> IEC C13
USB -> USB
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2023, 10:34:21 pm »
You can also use extension cords in series and burn down your house, should we not be allowed to sell low current extension cords too?

Yes, you definitely should stop selling non-fused low-current extension cords. They are already obviously illegal in pretty much everywhere else except North America and maybe a few developing third-world countries.

Making it fused costs like $0.50 more; another options is rating it for high enough current. It is absolutely ridiculous to assume normal laymen would be calculating and respecting power ratings of extension cords, but as that youtuber points out, it kinda sorta works by irrational fear against extension cords in general.

Right, so that sounds like a more important issue than selling a piece of double sided tape.
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Offline Kleinstein

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2023, 09:37:52 am »
Some of the cheap US extension cords have another unsafe feature: many have just 2 wires, but one can still use a 3 pin plug with them. The case is just so small that the 3rd (ground) pin is outside the connector.

The loose connectors have 2 problems: a add contact can run hot and be a fire hazzard and when half out the conductors are exposed. It is very uncommon to have isolation over the first few mm of the pins as it is with proper UK, Australia or 2 pin EU plugs.
 

Offline Solomon_3055

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2023, 02:19:34 pm »
What if everyone gets a 3 phase CEE connector. I want to be able to charge my phone or operate a 20Kw halogen lamp from the same spot in my house   :D
 

Online Siwastaja

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2023, 02:28:35 pm »
Right, so that sounds like a more important issue than selling a piece of double sided tape.

Yes, most definitely. But people are always eager to silence/ban people/things who/which expose seriously faulty practices/designs of others - e.g. by offering partially effective band-aids that underline the problems. I admit fixing the US plug/socket design is too big of a task (and as I have said earlier, Schuko here is not that much better); but requiring fusing of extension cords (at very least low-power variants which cannot be proved fire-proof when connected to an apparently common 20A breaker) within some transition period would be totally reasonable, as the cost to manufacturers is small and more safe extension cords would slowly replace the existing ones in circulation.
 
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Online Someone

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2023, 03:51:08 am »
requiring fusing of extension cords (at very least low-power variants which cannot be proved fire-proof when connected to an apparently common 20A breaker) within some transition period would be totally reasonable, as the cost to manufacturers is small and more safe extension cords would slowly replace the existing ones in circulation.
As we had with sheathed mains pins, all new products from XXXX onward must have new cheap/simple safety feature. Easy.
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2023, 11:50:53 am »
Some of the cheap US extension cords have another unsafe feature: many have just 2 wires, but one can still use a 3 pin plug with them. The case is just so small that the 3rd (ground) pin is outside the connector.
On old ones, perhaps. Extension cords you buy today have little tabs molded onto them to prevent the insertion of grounded plugs into ungrounded extension cords.
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2023, 09:57:59 am »
I personally have purchased illegal products from Amazon. Amazon is actively selling non-compliant products in Australia right under the noses of our "out-to-lunch" regulatory authority, the ACMA. It seems Amazon is too big to care, and the government is too weak to do anything about it.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2023, 10:18:56 am »
It's unlikely Amazon are selling the products. Most probably it is a foreign vendor using the Amazon marketplace to advertise, and you buy from them (clue: it ships from China) rather than Amazon. As such, you'd be the importer and therefore the one to blame. Not really any different to going on Aliexpress and buying illegal stuff, except Amazon are the payment processor.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2023, 02:59:37 pm »
Yeah but that’s the entire problem. Amazon doesn’t really want people to realize it’s not the vendor. It’s a very, um, “convenient” setup for them: offload the risk, pocket the transaction fees (and logistics fees, for FbA vendors).
 
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Online Siwastaja

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2023, 03:15:06 pm »
Yeah but that’s the entire problem. Amazon doesn’t really want people to realize it’s not the vendor. It’s a very, um, “convenient” setup for them: offload the risk, pocket the transaction fees (and logistics fees, for FbA vendors).

This is why I avoid Amazon as much as possible. Why would I pay premium for a site which makes it look like I'm getting something from a western supplier, yet still get the exact same China stuff I can buy from Aliexpress honestly.
 
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Offline tooki

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Re: Another dangerous Amazon product
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2023, 04:12:41 pm »
Yeah but that’s the entire problem. Amazon doesn’t really want people to realize it’s not the vendor. It’s a very, um, “convenient” setup for them: offload the risk, pocket the transaction fees (and logistics fees, for FbA vendors).

This is why I avoid Amazon as much as possible. Why would I pay premium for a site which makes it look like I'm getting something from a western supplier, yet still get the exact same China stuff I can buy from Aliexpress honestly.
Yep, same here, I rarely use Amazon anymore. And with Amazon’s search having been utterly ruined by this marketplace BS, even finding name-brand stuff is so time-consuming that it’s just not worth it. I’ll order from one of the Swiss online shops instead.
 


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